I am a management consultant and have been consulting for many companies. Recently i had a client which was not accepting the need of system through documentation. So to convince him i had used a jargon
"The faintest ink is more powerful than the strongest memory."
I would like to know ur opinion wether the statement quoted was right. specially i would to know that in todays era are companies controlled by people or by systems.
From India
1"The faintest ink is more powerful than the strongest memory."
I would like to know ur opinion wether the statement quoted was right. specially i would to know that in todays era are companies controlled by people or by systems.
From India
Dear Mr Imran
I must say that this is a very unique thread of discussion.An organisation is no doubt controlled by a human but the systems are there to facilitate the process,to minimise bugs and errors,curtail down on efforts on repetitive work and also minimise things like nepotism,or internal politics etc(human errors)
This is an era where all the paperwork is getting computerised ,no doubt there is always a risk of losing valuable data in case the computer conks off because of a virus attack or any technical issue but if we intend to keep a backup of physical data i,e papers to avoid this situation then it is going to be very difficult as because we wiil be saving the same data once in the computer and once on papers.We can have a back up of the same data on some other machine to avoid the situation,Hence I do not agree to the jargon in totality
I hope this makes sense to you
Keep posting
Thanks and Regards
Indrani Chakraborty
From India, Pune
I must say that this is a very unique thread of discussion.An organisation is no doubt controlled by a human but the systems are there to facilitate the process,to minimise bugs and errors,curtail down on efforts on repetitive work and also minimise things like nepotism,or internal politics etc(human errors)
This is an era where all the paperwork is getting computerised ,no doubt there is always a risk of losing valuable data in case the computer conks off because of a virus attack or any technical issue but if we intend to keep a backup of physical data i,e papers to avoid this situation then it is going to be very difficult as because we wiil be saving the same data once in the computer and once on papers.We can have a back up of the same data on some other machine to avoid the situation,Hence I do not agree to the jargon in totality
I hope this makes sense to you
Keep posting
Thanks and Regards
Indrani Chakraborty
From India, Pune
Well said,
My intension was not spelled clearly i suppose. When i said documentation then i intend it may be in any form, Hard or soft. Even if i have have an ERP we adress that as documentation.
Well i fully agree to ur thought that these days cost of documentation and upkeeping efforts require is less when we have documentation in soft.
But the major concern is in Manufacturing where the major documentation used is on the floor. this case it is difficult to convert it to soft. do u have a better advice on it.
Imran Khan
From India
My intension was not spelled clearly i suppose. When i said documentation then i intend it may be in any form, Hard or soft. Even if i have have an ERP we adress that as documentation.
Well i fully agree to ur thought that these days cost of documentation and upkeeping efforts require is less when we have documentation in soft.
But the major concern is in Manufacturing where the major documentation used is on the floor. this case it is difficult to convert it to soft. do u have a better advice on it.
Imran Khan
From India
Dear Mr Imran
I absolutely agree with you that it is difficult to maintain a soft copy record on the shop floor as most of the employees are not thatmuch aware of computers who are working on the shop floor
In this case we have little or no option than to have a data entry operator in place who can convert the physical data into a soft copy.But there should be a sytem in place like an ERP perhaps which can analyse and sort this data in such a manner so that the end result is comprehensive and serves as easy refernce to the managment
I hope this makes sense
Thanks and Regards
Indrani Chakraborty
From India, Pune
I absolutely agree with you that it is difficult to maintain a soft copy record on the shop floor as most of the employees are not thatmuch aware of computers who are working on the shop floor
In this case we have little or no option than to have a data entry operator in place who can convert the physical data into a soft copy.But there should be a sytem in place like an ERP perhaps which can analyse and sort this data in such a manner so that the end result is comprehensive and serves as easy refernce to the managment
I hope this makes sense
Thanks and Regards
Indrani Chakraborty
From India, Pune
Hi Imram and Indu !
While going through first couple of posts I felt that that original point put up by Imran was getting sidelined. More I read, more I got convinced :)
Well, what I understand from Imran's post is he wants to discuss System Orientated working and Individual Oriented working. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Systems we design must be documented. Infact if it is not documented, it does not exist.
Documented systems are meant for smooth, consistent working. A documented system is independent of individuals.
Actually, in traditional Indian organisation which were run by family members lacked professionalism and resisted systems and documentation. "Sahab ne bol diya to ho jayega !" was the mantra. Gone are the days where a verbal permission by MD or GM was enough. I have asked my MD to put it on paper things / changes he wanted to implement.
Systems demand more and more decentralization / delegation of authority and decision making. This attracts resistance from individual who want to run the show on their charisma, individual obligations and personal favours.
System makes it easy to replace individuals even in key positions. A good desing keeps all the possibilities in considerations and most importantly a good system is open for updation and changes to cope with future needs and changes in environment.
The quote by Imran was very correct and it applies to all the organisations. Even at social front, SC has made it mendatory to register all the marriages !
Small organisations can afford to avoid system orientation for some time but if the organisation has to grow big, it has to adopt system orientation which involves documentation.
Hope my views are in line with what Imran was trying to suggest.
- Hiten
From India, New Delhi
While going through first couple of posts I felt that that original point put up by Imran was getting sidelined. More I read, more I got convinced :)
Well, what I understand from Imran's post is he wants to discuss System Orientated working and Individual Oriented working. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Systems we design must be documented. Infact if it is not documented, it does not exist.
Documented systems are meant for smooth, consistent working. A documented system is independent of individuals.
Actually, in traditional Indian organisation which were run by family members lacked professionalism and resisted systems and documentation. "Sahab ne bol diya to ho jayega !" was the mantra. Gone are the days where a verbal permission by MD or GM was enough. I have asked my MD to put it on paper things / changes he wanted to implement.
Systems demand more and more decentralization / delegation of authority and decision making. This attracts resistance from individual who want to run the show on their charisma, individual obligations and personal favours.
System makes it easy to replace individuals even in key positions. A good desing keeps all the possibilities in considerations and most importantly a good system is open for updation and changes to cope with future needs and changes in environment.
The quote by Imran was very correct and it applies to all the organisations. Even at social front, SC has made it mendatory to register all the marriages !
Small organisations can afford to avoid system orientation for some time but if the organisation has to grow big, it has to adopt system orientation which involves documentation.
Hope my views are in line with what Imran was trying to suggest.
- Hiten
From India, New Delhi
To add to my above mentioned post, I have experienced that people coming from a system orientated organisation to individual oriented organisation feel very uncomfortable and cant sustain for long. The mostly quit.
However, a person coming from a individual oriented organisation to system oriented org also feels discomfort initially and feels isolated, not trusted, finding 'trust' word missing. But if he / she sticks and tries to adapt, the process of settling in org becomes easier with every day spent.
- Hiten
From India, New Delhi
However, a person coming from a individual oriented organisation to system oriented org also feels discomfort initially and feels isolated, not trusted, finding 'trust' word missing. But if he / she sticks and tries to adapt, the process of settling in org becomes easier with every day spent.
- Hiten
From India, New Delhi
Well i fully agree with the comment stated. To extend this i would like to use few words which are in sequence to be followed when any system is established :
1. Roles (definition of Wht to be done)
2. Responsibility (Ownership)
3. Authority (Empowerment)
4. Accountability ( Making people answerable)
Generally the first three element are documented and known to people but the fourth is neither documented nor understood. This area we need to concentrate on how to document accountability for better results.
Give me your opinion.
From India
1. Roles (definition of Wht to be done)
2. Responsibility (Ownership)
3. Authority (Empowerment)
4. Accountability ( Making people answerable)
Generally the first three element are documented and known to people but the fourth is neither documented nor understood. This area we need to concentrate on how to document accountability for better results.
Give me your opinion.
From India
Dear Mr Parekh
I agree with you that I have not been able to understand the post completely .Taking thread from your comments I would just like to add a few things.I dont know about implementing sytems other than Human resources so I wont comment on that .When it comes to designing or implementing an HRMS documentation is absolutely important,I agree but a Human touch from the HR side is always appreciated by the employees.
I know it becomes difficult for the Hr to add this HUman touch as the workforce multiplies with the passage of time but nevertheless the importance of "a human touch" doesnt depreciate
For eg I used to work for an MNC prior to my post graduation as a Team Leader(sales).We used to have a very senior person Head -Assets who used to take team meetings once in a month ,it was quite amazing to see he could remember the names of all the people,and every time he used to call somebody by his/her name his/her face used to light up with the feeling"see, sir remembers my name"
The same thing I have seen in one of the big IT companies where the HR person remembers the names of some 500 odd employees.Everytime someone used to send an application through the HRMS sytem he used to make it a point that he individually talks to that employee to find out what is the matter,even if it is a brief chat of 2 mins
I dont know whether this time also I have deviated from the topic,or not all I wanted to say is we should implement systems for the smooth fuctioning of the organisation but we shouldnt become robots in the process
I hope this makes sense
Thanks and Regards
Indrani Chakraborty
From India, Pune
I agree with you that I have not been able to understand the post completely .Taking thread from your comments I would just like to add a few things.I dont know about implementing sytems other than Human resources so I wont comment on that .When it comes to designing or implementing an HRMS documentation is absolutely important,I agree but a Human touch from the HR side is always appreciated by the employees.
I know it becomes difficult for the Hr to add this HUman touch as the workforce multiplies with the passage of time but nevertheless the importance of "a human touch" doesnt depreciate
For eg I used to work for an MNC prior to my post graduation as a Team Leader(sales).We used to have a very senior person Head -Assets who used to take team meetings once in a month ,it was quite amazing to see he could remember the names of all the people,and every time he used to call somebody by his/her name his/her face used to light up with the feeling"see, sir remembers my name"
The same thing I have seen in one of the big IT companies where the HR person remembers the names of some 500 odd employees.Everytime someone used to send an application through the HRMS sytem he used to make it a point that he individually talks to that employee to find out what is the matter,even if it is a brief chat of 2 mins
I dont know whether this time also I have deviated from the topic,or not all I wanted to say is we should implement systems for the smooth fuctioning of the organisation but we shouldnt become robots in the process
I hope this makes sense
Thanks and Regards
Indrani Chakraborty
From India, Pune
Hi Imram ! Can we discuss about difference between Responsibility and Accountability. I am not clear about the difference between these two. - Hiten
From India, New Delhi
From India, New Delhi
Dear Hiten
The difference between Accountability and Responsibility
Accountability - The obligation to demonstrate and take responsibility for performance in light of agreed expectations.
Responsibility is the obligation to act whereas accountability is the obligation to answer for an action. (Responsabilisation)
You may go through the link :
http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/eval/pubs/R...afcgrr05_e.asp
Balaji - Hyd
From India, Hyderabad
The difference between Accountability and Responsibility
Accountability - The obligation to demonstrate and take responsibility for performance in light of agreed expectations.
Responsibility is the obligation to act whereas accountability is the obligation to answer for an action. (Responsabilisation)
You may go through the link :
http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/eval/pubs/R...afcgrr05_e.asp
Balaji - Hyd
From India, Hyderabad
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