Dear Mr. Vasant,
I faced the same question when we implemented new attendance registering system. " You will deduct our pay if we come late; will you pay us if we stay late?". For sure, it is one of the toughest tasks HR has to handle.
My simple answer was: Bring overtime pay request with the approval of your Direct Manager and we will pay you OT. i.e. employee is not allowed to stay in the office after work hrs unless and until his manager needs him to work. Make it very clear.
In some cases, HR is unaware of the reason why the employee is late. Therefore we have to depend on the Dept. Head. In my case I am forwarding the attendance report for the preceding week every Saturday to the concerned dept. head, of course with the note of HR Director asking them to advise on whom disciplinary action is necessary.
Still it is a tough task and to be honest I am a little confused too abt how we are going to take action on those who come late. Anyway I am continuing the same process and there is a very noticeable positive effect from the part of employees.
Thanks and regards,
Salahudheen
Executive Secretary to HR Director
NASCO, Saudi Arabia
From Saudi Arabia, Riyadh
4I faced the same question when we implemented new attendance registering system. " You will deduct our pay if we come late; will you pay us if we stay late?". For sure, it is one of the toughest tasks HR has to handle.
My simple answer was: Bring overtime pay request with the approval of your Direct Manager and we will pay you OT. i.e. employee is not allowed to stay in the office after work hrs unless and until his manager needs him to work. Make it very clear.
In some cases, HR is unaware of the reason why the employee is late. Therefore we have to depend on the Dept. Head. In my case I am forwarding the attendance report for the preceding week every Saturday to the concerned dept. head, of course with the note of HR Director asking them to advise on whom disciplinary action is necessary.
Still it is a tough task and to be honest I am a little confused too abt how we are going to take action on those who come late. Anyway I am continuing the same process and there is a very noticeable positive effect from the part of employees.
Thanks and regards,
Salahudheen
Executive Secretary to HR Director
NASCO, Saudi Arabia
From Saudi Arabia, Riyadh
Dear Friends,
As HR professionals we should insist the HODs why the employees in their department are working for extra hours on regular basis that means there is some thing wrong with HOD as he is unable to assess the quantum of work their people are doing and accordingly he is unable to plan/ indent the manpower.
Considering above circumstances if I am the HR guy I will hand-over the data on monthly basis to the HOD and ask his inputs. There will be lot of resistance from the employees when the people are not paid any extra amount for the extra hours worked and want to take action against the same people when they are reporting late hence as a HR guy we need to keep the balance. Case to case basis you need to reward for the employees who are working for more than one hour to their scheduled working hours but over all you need to make the HOD responsible otherwise the HOD acts like a cat on the wall and will tell to the employees that it is the HR doing all these things hence take a written action plan from the HOD and implement. The best way you call all the late comers for a meeting along with their HODs record the minutes of meeting obtain approval from the HODs and the senior management and implement then people will look at you as a resourceful person and in the next budget meeting you need to stress on the manpower with out any extra payments
Regards - kameswarao
From India, Hyderabad
As HR professionals we should insist the HODs why the employees in their department are working for extra hours on regular basis that means there is some thing wrong with HOD as he is unable to assess the quantum of work their people are doing and accordingly he is unable to plan/ indent the manpower.
Considering above circumstances if I am the HR guy I will hand-over the data on monthly basis to the HOD and ask his inputs. There will be lot of resistance from the employees when the people are not paid any extra amount for the extra hours worked and want to take action against the same people when they are reporting late hence as a HR guy we need to keep the balance. Case to case basis you need to reward for the employees who are working for more than one hour to their scheduled working hours but over all you need to make the HOD responsible otherwise the HOD acts like a cat on the wall and will tell to the employees that it is the HR doing all these things hence take a written action plan from the HOD and implement. The best way you call all the late comers for a meeting along with their HODs record the minutes of meeting obtain approval from the HODs and the senior management and implement then people will look at you as a resourceful person and in the next budget meeting you need to stress on the manpower with out any extra payments
Regards - kameswarao
From India, Hyderabad
• Well said Mr. Sheker ‘You should tell them that coming to office on time is discipline and going late from office is responsibility.’
• Employees are likely to say that, we are not compensated for staying late and working extra. I think it is a matter of culture cultivated in the organization.
• Employer should not encourage the culture of staying late and doing same work which otherwise can be completed in regular working hours. Recognizing and applauding only those employees who stay late etc. Under such circumstances employees are likely to take advantage of their late stay as an excuse for late coming.
• Cultivate a culture of discipline where in everybody is expected to be in at stipulated time, no matter how long you have stayed late last night. Devise penalties for late comers and implement them without favor or fear. Your policy and rules should be clear and known to all employees and should also be implemented accordingly. You will face resistance only initially. Make sure that every policy you implement is vetted by your hire ups and they are on your side in case of dispute.
• Generally employees in workmen category will have to be compensated for extra working, since they have specific legal protection. But Officers and Managers will have to be treated differently, they have to be punctual as well as they have to complete assigned work without looking at the watch.
• To conclude employer should encourage punctuality, timeliness and completion of work and not mere staying late. May be employer can allow employees to leave office early if they have finished the jobs in hand satisfactorily.
Thanks & Regards
From India, Pune
• Employees are likely to say that, we are not compensated for staying late and working extra. I think it is a matter of culture cultivated in the organization.
• Employer should not encourage the culture of staying late and doing same work which otherwise can be completed in regular working hours. Recognizing and applauding only those employees who stay late etc. Under such circumstances employees are likely to take advantage of their late stay as an excuse for late coming.
• Cultivate a culture of discipline where in everybody is expected to be in at stipulated time, no matter how long you have stayed late last night. Devise penalties for late comers and implement them without favor or fear. Your policy and rules should be clear and known to all employees and should also be implemented accordingly. You will face resistance only initially. Make sure that every policy you implement is vetted by your hire ups and they are on your side in case of dispute.
• Generally employees in workmen category will have to be compensated for extra working, since they have specific legal protection. But Officers and Managers will have to be treated differently, they have to be punctual as well as they have to complete assigned work without looking at the watch.
• To conclude employer should encourage punctuality, timeliness and completion of work and not mere staying late. May be employer can allow employees to leave office early if they have finished the jobs in hand satisfactorily.
Thanks & Regards
From India, Pune
I am afraid I do not quite agree with you. Just the way it is the employee's lawful right to expect to be paid full month's salary for a full month's work, it is also the lawful right of the employer to expect full day's productive work from his employees.
Lat coming attarcts disciplinary action and for this permission of the employee is not required at all. If you are doing it please understand that you are setting a very poor and disturbing precedent. Stop it immediately.
Vasant Nair
From India, Mumbai
Lat coming attarcts disciplinary action and for this permission of the employee is not required at all. If you are doing it please understand that you are setting a very poor and disturbing precedent. Stop it immediately.
Vasant Nair
From India, Mumbai
Dear vasant,
2 day comings in a month is acceptable under unavoidable circumstances. If they continue it for 3rd time cut down the CL. Every employee is eligible to take 1 day leave in a month according to Shops and Establishment Act. So if u cut down the CL they cant take any more CL for that month and if they take leave it will PL then, where they will be worried since they will not be encashed. If the continuously do that then give a oral warning. Still the issue continuous put a word to higher authority where they will definitely scare them in such a way they will be suspended or terminated from the organization if they continue it anymore.
Regards,
S. Newton Jenkins
From India, Madras
2 day comings in a month is acceptable under unavoidable circumstances. If they continue it for 3rd time cut down the CL. Every employee is eligible to take 1 day leave in a month according to Shops and Establishment Act. So if u cut down the CL they cant take any more CL for that month and if they take leave it will PL then, where they will be worried since they will not be encashed. If the continuously do that then give a oral warning. Still the issue continuous put a word to higher authority where they will definitely scare them in such a way they will be suspended or terminated from the organization if they continue it anymore.
Regards,
S. Newton Jenkins
From India, Madras
Dear Sumit,
You are right on both counts.
Yes, Standing Orders do generally treat late coning as an act of misconduct and attracts disciplinary action.
But do we need to activate the disciplinary machinery to tackle such simple problems.
I have always believed that as HR persons we are in the "Business of Looking After our People"andthis has been the faith that I have practiced consistently in all of my 30years of active employment.
We would only antagonize our "Manpower Compliment" by adopting a legalistic approach over a "Humanistic Approach" in managing our people.
Lets carry on with our discussion on this topic and find a suitable, amicable and effective solution.
Yes, I also agree with you that people should be compensated for staying late.
Vasant Nair
From India, Mumbai
You are right on both counts.
Yes, Standing Orders do generally treat late coning as an act of misconduct and attracts disciplinary action.
But do we need to activate the disciplinary machinery to tackle such simple problems.
I have always believed that as HR persons we are in the "Business of Looking After our People"andthis has been the faith that I have practiced consistently in all of my 30years of active employment.
We would only antagonize our "Manpower Compliment" by adopting a legalistic approach over a "Humanistic Approach" in managing our people.
Lets carry on with our discussion on this topic and find a suitable, amicable and effective solution.
Yes, I also agree with you that people should be compensated for staying late.
Vasant Nair
From India, Mumbai
A very " People positive" approach. Totally agree with you. Lets find out why and address this very relevant "WHY" and we would find that our solution lies therein. Vasant Nair
From India, Mumbai
From India, Mumbai
Dear Friend,
What you have suggested is a Rule which is prevalent in several organizations.
But you must admit that people are smart these days. If an employee knows that he is going to lose half day's wages for being a little late, what is to prevent him from settling for half day's leave. In the long run you would be presented with attendance problems.
On the other hand would your action of deducting half day's wages for 1/2 hour of late coming be a lawful action.
Lets adopt a more people oriented and proactive approach to delaing with this problems of late coming.
You are absolutely right that we should involved the HOD to deal with both, Late Coming and Late Staying...we will find our answer there!!!
One should always remember that Late Staying AND late Coming both should be discouraged NOW!!!
The disease should not be allowed to infect.
Vasant Nair
From India, Mumbai
What you have suggested is a Rule which is prevalent in several organizations.
But you must admit that people are smart these days. If an employee knows that he is going to lose half day's wages for being a little late, what is to prevent him from settling for half day's leave. In the long run you would be presented with attendance problems.
On the other hand would your action of deducting half day's wages for 1/2 hour of late coming be a lawful action.
Lets adopt a more people oriented and proactive approach to delaing with this problems of late coming.
You are absolutely right that we should involved the HOD to deal with both, Late Coming and Late Staying...we will find our answer there!!!
One should always remember that Late Staying AND late Coming both should be discouraged NOW!!!
The disease should not be allowed to infect.
Vasant Nair
From India, Mumbai
Agree with you totally. I know of an organization where the full months' attendance is arrived at by multiplying the no. of days worked in the month by 8 hours...say 208 hours for a full month...26x 8.
Any shortfall in the total hours worked is adjusted automatically.
This rule is working wonderfully well there.
Vasant Nair
From India, Mumbai
Any shortfall in the total hours worked is adjusted automatically.
This rule is working wonderfully well there.
Vasant Nair
From India, Mumbai
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LATE COMING.doc