Dear Community Members,
I am here to seek some advise and guidance on an important matter.
One of our employee was lastely identified to be involved in some activities like, spreading words in the floor that he is starting his own company and was influencing some of the key people to join him. His performance was greatly dip in the same period of last one-two months during which he was doing all these talks. We were informed by the employees them selves that he is talking of opening up his company and asking people to join him there. He even had an informal discussion with his PM (Its a newly appointed PM and they don't have any formal friendship as such) that he will soon leave the job and will also take away some of the key members so he should be aware of this and can plan hiring and projects accordingly.
In the mean one of a Sr. resource has come to us and said that he was shown a chant between that employee and one of our existing client on WhatsApp, to influence him that he has even acquired clients and he should think of joining his new company.
When these were informed to us we went ahead and called him for a discussion in which we found him guilty the way he was putting his point and changing his statements. But very smartly he said that he was just kidding and wasn't serious about any such thing. We also figured out that one the very previous day he was on leave on medical grounds but he went to give interview in some other company (this was admitted by himself). He wasn't looking any serious about the matter and we issued him a Show cause and asked him to reply in writing, in the mean we stopped all his access from office accounts and didn't allowed him to work.
He has submitted the explanation saying that he wasn't serious in those talks, he didnt approached any client and neither he wish to open his own business. We are not all satisfied with his response and it was seriously dented the culture on the floor. We would like to send a message to people that we are serious on issues like this when someone spoils the culture or tries to break in to our business or clients.
The only problem is that we have nothing in writing against him, He is denying but we clearly know that he used to do that on the floor, many people have confirmed the same.
My question is -
Can we go ahead and terminate him on this matter ?? Or what else can be done in matter like this ??
Appreciate if some legal expert and Sr. people from the community can help in this.
Regards,
Pradeep
From India, Chandigarh
I am here to seek some advise and guidance on an important matter.
One of our employee was lastely identified to be involved in some activities like, spreading words in the floor that he is starting his own company and was influencing some of the key people to join him. His performance was greatly dip in the same period of last one-two months during which he was doing all these talks. We were informed by the employees them selves that he is talking of opening up his company and asking people to join him there. He even had an informal discussion with his PM (Its a newly appointed PM and they don't have any formal friendship as such) that he will soon leave the job and will also take away some of the key members so he should be aware of this and can plan hiring and projects accordingly.
In the mean one of a Sr. resource has come to us and said that he was shown a chant between that employee and one of our existing client on WhatsApp, to influence him that he has even acquired clients and he should think of joining his new company.
When these were informed to us we went ahead and called him for a discussion in which we found him guilty the way he was putting his point and changing his statements. But very smartly he said that he was just kidding and wasn't serious about any such thing. We also figured out that one the very previous day he was on leave on medical grounds but he went to give interview in some other company (this was admitted by himself). He wasn't looking any serious about the matter and we issued him a Show cause and asked him to reply in writing, in the mean we stopped all his access from office accounts and didn't allowed him to work.
He has submitted the explanation saying that he wasn't serious in those talks, he didnt approached any client and neither he wish to open his own business. We are not all satisfied with his response and it was seriously dented the culture on the floor. We would like to send a message to people that we are serious on issues like this when someone spoils the culture or tries to break in to our business or clients.
The only problem is that we have nothing in writing against him, He is denying but we clearly know that he used to do that on the floor, many people have confirmed the same.
My question is -
Can we go ahead and terminate him on this matter ?? Or what else can be done in matter like this ??
Appreciate if some legal expert and Sr. people from the community can help in this.
Regards,
Pradeep
From India, Chandigarh
Dear Pradeep,
first of all take statements from floor employees, whatever he spread against the company and try to break good culture.
If majority of worker ready to give statement, send him again show cause notice with this supportive documents and also inform him that if company is not satisfy with his ans, company can take disciplinary action or terminate you on basis of this.
From India, Mumbai
23first of all take statements from floor employees, whatever he spread against the company and try to break good culture.
If majority of worker ready to give statement, send him again show cause notice with this supportive documents and also inform him that if company is not satisfy with his ans, company can take disciplinary action or terminate you on basis of this.
From India, Mumbai
Dear Arpan,
Thanks for writing. I understand your point however not everyone will be so open to give things in writing, i also think that, it may even work against the culture. People are very loyal to us but no one would like to be the reason for anyone's termination or no one would like to come forward to make any written complaint. On the other hand, Too much involvement of the people will may lead to spread some fear and in future even if such things happen on the floor, people would prefer to keep it to them instead of bringing that to the notice of management considering that they will be dragged in to a lot of paper work and proceedings. I would like to avoid involving people too much and keep the culture on the floor light and open.
Correct me i am wrong..
I understand that this will make it difficult for us to terminate that employee or take any other strict action against him but that is what making this situation a bit tricky.
What else would you suggest us, any alternate way out ?
Pradeep
From India, Chandigarh
Thanks for writing. I understand your point however not everyone will be so open to give things in writing, i also think that, it may even work against the culture. People are very loyal to us but no one would like to be the reason for anyone's termination or no one would like to come forward to make any written complaint. On the other hand, Too much involvement of the people will may lead to spread some fear and in future even if such things happen on the floor, people would prefer to keep it to them instead of bringing that to the notice of management considering that they will be dragged in to a lot of paper work and proceedings. I would like to avoid involving people too much and keep the culture on the floor light and open.
Correct me i am wrong..
I understand that this will make it difficult for us to terminate that employee or take any other strict action against him but that is what making this situation a bit tricky.
What else would you suggest us, any alternate way out ?
Pradeep
From India, Chandigarh
Hi, Issue him MEMO which contains all that words he discussed with Employes. After the same thing if he will repeat then terminate his Service.
From India, Mumbai
From India, Mumbai
Dear Pradeep,
Whatever said and done without initiating a formal inquiry your case is not strong legally if and when you terminate him in case the inquiry conclude in finding him guilty. It's upto you as how to build a strong case of indiscipline as per your own standing order and prove him guilty of charges to be framed and successfully defend your action if the case is dragged to court.So recording the irrefutable statements of key witnesses is first and foremost (even using a cctv camera or a tape recorder if the law permits). Probably you should build a prima facie case of guilty of charges and place him under suspension pending inquiry which will send a strong signal to all his subordinates and they'll come forward to testify to the truth. Supposing the key witnesses backtrack when actually trial begins your case becomes very weak and ultimately you lose the case. So depending on the circumstances you should proceed keeping your awareness on the impending litigation in the court..
From India, Bangalore
Whatever said and done without initiating a formal inquiry your case is not strong legally if and when you terminate him in case the inquiry conclude in finding him guilty. It's upto you as how to build a strong case of indiscipline as per your own standing order and prove him guilty of charges to be framed and successfully defend your action if the case is dragged to court.So recording the irrefutable statements of key witnesses is first and foremost (even using a cctv camera or a tape recorder if the law permits). Probably you should build a prima facie case of guilty of charges and place him under suspension pending inquiry which will send a strong signal to all his subordinates and they'll come forward to testify to the truth. Supposing the key witnesses backtrack when actually trial begins your case becomes very weak and ultimately you lose the case. So depending on the circumstances you should proceed keeping your awareness on the impending litigation in the court..
From India, Bangalore
Hi Pradeep,
I agree with Sh.kumar.s. that you need to build a strong case of indiscipline against the individual in accordance with standing order and prove him guilty of charges.I know this is a long drawn process, which sometimes strech on to years together.The presence of such persons always detrimental to the organisation,hence it better to get rid of them at any cost.I suggest that you obtain resignation from him and relieve him from the duties immediately for which even if you have pay some money.
BS Kalsi
Member since Aug 2011
From India, Mumbai
I agree with Sh.kumar.s. that you need to build a strong case of indiscipline against the individual in accordance with standing order and prove him guilty of charges.I know this is a long drawn process, which sometimes strech on to years together.The presence of such persons always detrimental to the organisation,hence it better to get rid of them at any cost.I suggest that you obtain resignation from him and relieve him from the duties immediately for which even if you have pay some money.
BS Kalsi
Member since Aug 2011
From India, Mumbai
Thank you folks for the advise. I kept kept him on suspension for the period when we were investigating the case. i think its right that we need to document some statements and documents to ensure that our case if strong enough in the court of lae if at all it goes to that extent. We for sure have decided to get rid of him. Gave him show cause notice on which his response was absolutely not acceptable. He did accepted that he talked about opening up company but it was in fun not real.
We have decided to terminate him based on the proofs and complaints we have so far. We shall be collecting more documentory evidence before giving his termination to him.
I would like to understand in case of termination for such reasons do we have to give him the salary of 1 month against the notice ? In our rule book it is clearly written that on ethical, integrity and any other misbehave or any inappropriate activity we can terminate the employment without any notice or compensation with immediate effect.
Please share your views.
Pradeep
From India, Chandigarh
We have decided to terminate him based on the proofs and complaints we have so far. We shall be collecting more documentory evidence before giving his termination to him.
I would like to understand in case of termination for such reasons do we have to give him the salary of 1 month against the notice ? In our rule book it is clearly written that on ethical, integrity and any other misbehave or any inappropriate activity we can terminate the employment without any notice or compensation with immediate effect.
Please share your views.
Pradeep
From India, Chandigarh
Hi Pradeep,
In connection with your last para of your mail where you have used the word "rule book", I would like to know what exactly is this. Is it your company's code of conduct or these are certified standing orders of the company ? You may like to check the terms & conditions envisaged in his appointment letter too.
You are right in mentioning that in normal conditions of termination simpliciter, one month notice is necessary but termination due to any misconduct spell out in conduct rules goes without any notice or compensation.
I still hold my suggestion to obtain resignation from the employee and relieve him from his duties immediately to avoid litigation in the near future.
BS Kalsi
Member since Aug
From India, Mumbai
In connection with your last para of your mail where you have used the word "rule book", I would like to know what exactly is this. Is it your company's code of conduct or these are certified standing orders of the company ? You may like to check the terms & conditions envisaged in his appointment letter too.
You are right in mentioning that in normal conditions of termination simpliciter, one month notice is necessary but termination due to any misconduct spell out in conduct rules goes without any notice or compensation.
I still hold my suggestion to obtain resignation from the employee and relieve him from his duties immediately to avoid litigation in the near future.
BS Kalsi
Member since Aug
From India, Mumbai
Dear BS Kalsi,
I am referring to our rule book (Handbook) but not the certified standing orders. Yes the appointment letter has the clause of immediate termination without any notice or salary in case of any miss conduct.
I agree to your point of taking resignation from the employee but employee is already not coming to office, he has already joined somewhere else. Besides this has lead to a lot of talks on the floor. Unwanted acts like this should be dealt strictly to set right parameters for future.
Correct me if i am wrong.
Pradeep
From India, Chandigarh
I am referring to our rule book (Handbook) but not the certified standing orders. Yes the appointment letter has the clause of immediate termination without any notice or salary in case of any miss conduct.
I agree to your point of taking resignation from the employee but employee is already not coming to office, he has already joined somewhere else. Besides this has lead to a lot of talks on the floor. Unwanted acts like this should be dealt strictly to set right parameters for future.
Correct me if i am wrong.
Pradeep
From India, Chandigarh
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Termination-emp loyment_563.pdf
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Resignation cum relieving letter.doc