HR managers are a waste of money? Do you Agree the Above Statement? Justify with an Example?
From United Kingdom, London
Acknowledge(0)
Amend(0)
1From United Kingdom, London
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Absolutely correct. If you ask any question like, "What is the use of HR?" then the first immediate question that arises is how you are getting your monthly salary, how you are getting a salary hike, etc. When an accountant with good payroll software is enough for salary calculations, why should we require an HR person? When the appraisals are done by the production department itself, what is the use of an HR?
From India, Hyderabad
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
From India, Hyderabad
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Thank you, Ms. (Cite Contribution), for providing the link to the article "HR as a Scapegoat," which is truly worth reading.
I would like to clarify one thing, Nagbajjuri: we can participate in healthy discussions to enhance our knowledge, but we should avoid engaging in such arguments in the office. We should not even entertain the statements of those who claim that HR is a waste of money. Do they believe they are more intelligent than the management that hired them in the organization? The same management that hired that individual also hired the HR team.
Should we then start labeling other departments as wasteful expenses as well?
Therefore, we should refrain from getting involved in discussions initiated by thoughtless comments from certain individuals.
From India, Kumbakonam
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
I would like to clarify one thing, Nagbajjuri: we can participate in healthy discussions to enhance our knowledge, but we should avoid engaging in such arguments in the office. We should not even entertain the statements of those who claim that HR is a waste of money. Do they believe they are more intelligent than the management that hired them in the organization? The same management that hired that individual also hired the HR team.
Should we then start labeling other departments as wasteful expenses as well?
Therefore, we should refrain from getting involved in discussions initiated by thoughtless comments from certain individuals.
From India, Kumbakonam
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Dear Nagbajjuri,
Yes, HR is a waste of money when HR is controlled by management, when HR is seen as just an activity, and assumed that it doesn't have any contribution or cannot contribute towards the organizational mission, goal, and vision.
HR is, of course, a waste of money when they are not considered as a strategic partner in business.
HR is a waste of money when companies and top management want it to act as per their whims and fancies and don't like HR interventions.
Remember one thing, humans or the employees are the most important part of any organization. Even though this is one asset that has a high level of change at any given point in time. Retaining them is a very important and difficult task. A good company becomes a great company through its employees.
To help employees, HR needs to follow certain procedures and processes, and if any hindrance is caused to this process or procedure, then the entire purpose of having HR is defeated.
So, I believe HR is a waste of time in those companies where HR is not seen as a department but treated more like an orderly.
Believe me, to understand that HR is a waste of money, you need not be a rocket scientist. All one has to do is pay attention in their MBA lectures while pursuing an MBA. If one has not done an MBA, then one can anytime search on the internet for such information.
Regards,
Octavious
From India, Mumbai
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Yes, HR is a waste of money when HR is controlled by management, when HR is seen as just an activity, and assumed that it doesn't have any contribution or cannot contribute towards the organizational mission, goal, and vision.
HR is, of course, a waste of money when they are not considered as a strategic partner in business.
HR is a waste of money when companies and top management want it to act as per their whims and fancies and don't like HR interventions.
Remember one thing, humans or the employees are the most important part of any organization. Even though this is one asset that has a high level of change at any given point in time. Retaining them is a very important and difficult task. A good company becomes a great company through its employees.
To help employees, HR needs to follow certain procedures and processes, and if any hindrance is caused to this process or procedure, then the entire purpose of having HR is defeated.
So, I believe HR is a waste of time in those companies where HR is not seen as a department but treated more like an orderly.
Believe me, to understand that HR is a waste of money, you need not be a rocket scientist. All one has to do is pay attention in their MBA lectures while pursuing an MBA. If one has not done an MBA, then one can anytime search on the internet for such information.
Regards,
Octavious
From India, Mumbai
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Dear nagbajjuri, I think people who think HR is waste of money do not know what is importance of HR department and what HR does and why it does so.
From India, Mumbai
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
From India, Mumbai
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
You seem to be a frustrated person or have had a bad experience while working in the same role/position.
The thing is, you need to understand the real meaning of an HR Manager and the concept of having a Manager for Human Resources. If an HR Manager is capable of performing their responsibilities effectively for the organization, then they are a valuable investment. If not, then they are indeed of little use.
Let's shed some light on the role of an HR Manager in an organization.
The role of the Human Resource Manager is evolving with the changes in the competitive market environment and the recognition that Human Resource Management must play a more strategic role in the organization's success. Organizations that neglect the importance of attracting and retaining talent may face dire consequences, as their competitors may outperform them in utilizing their human resources strategically.
With increased competition, both locally and globally, organizations must become more adaptable, resilient, agile, and customer-focused to thrive. In this changing environment, HR professionals need to evolve into strategic partners, employee sponsors or advocates, and change mentors within the organization. To succeed, HR must be a business-driven function with a deep understanding of the organization's overall strategy and the ability to influence key decisions and policies. Today's HR Managers primarily focus on strategic personnel retention and talent development. They act as coaches, counselors, mentors, and succession planners to motivate and retain the organization's members. HR Managers also advocate for values, ethics, beliefs, and diversity management within their organizations.
This paper will highlight how an HR manager can tackle the challenges of workplace diversity, motivate employees through gain-sharing and executive information systems, and effectively plan, organize, lead, and control human resources.
In my opinion, HR Managers today may face difficulties due to the rapidly changing business landscape, and therefore, they must update their knowledge and skills according to the organization's needs and objectives. Some challenges in HRM include:
1. Managing the Vision: The organization's vision guides its business strategy and helps evaluate management practices.
2. Internal Environment: Creating a responsive environment, ensuring employee satisfaction, and maintaining culture and systems are challenging tasks.
3. Changing Industrial Relations: Harmonizing management philosophies for both workers and managers is a daunting task.
4. Building Organizational Capability: Ensuring employees are prepared for continual change even in adverse conditions.
5. Job Design & Organizational Structure: Understanding job roles, technology, and people involved in tasks is crucial.
6. Managing the Large Workforce: Managing a large workforce while respecting their rights poses challenges.
7. Psycho-Social Environment: Employee participation is essential for democratizing and humanizing institutions.
8. Employee Satisfaction: Motivating employees to satisfy their higher-level needs is crucial.
9. Modern Technology: Addressing potential unemployment due to technological advancements by assessing manpower needs.
10. Computerized Information System: Impacting managerial decision-making and organizational coordination.
11. Legal Environment: Adapting to legal changes for optimal human resources utilization.
12. Managing Human Relations: Balancing relations between educated and uneducated workforce.
In conclusion, despite the challenges, if HR Managers can overcome these obstacles with support from management and employees, they are a valuable investment for the organization. Managing employees in today's business world is increasingly complex and requires effective leadership from HR professionals.
From India, Gurgaon
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
The thing is, you need to understand the real meaning of an HR Manager and the concept of having a Manager for Human Resources. If an HR Manager is capable of performing their responsibilities effectively for the organization, then they are a valuable investment. If not, then they are indeed of little use.
Let's shed some light on the role of an HR Manager in an organization.
The role of the Human Resource Manager is evolving with the changes in the competitive market environment and the recognition that Human Resource Management must play a more strategic role in the organization's success. Organizations that neglect the importance of attracting and retaining talent may face dire consequences, as their competitors may outperform them in utilizing their human resources strategically.
With increased competition, both locally and globally, organizations must become more adaptable, resilient, agile, and customer-focused to thrive. In this changing environment, HR professionals need to evolve into strategic partners, employee sponsors or advocates, and change mentors within the organization. To succeed, HR must be a business-driven function with a deep understanding of the organization's overall strategy and the ability to influence key decisions and policies. Today's HR Managers primarily focus on strategic personnel retention and talent development. They act as coaches, counselors, mentors, and succession planners to motivate and retain the organization's members. HR Managers also advocate for values, ethics, beliefs, and diversity management within their organizations.
This paper will highlight how an HR manager can tackle the challenges of workplace diversity, motivate employees through gain-sharing and executive information systems, and effectively plan, organize, lead, and control human resources.
In my opinion, HR Managers today may face difficulties due to the rapidly changing business landscape, and therefore, they must update their knowledge and skills according to the organization's needs and objectives. Some challenges in HRM include:
1. Managing the Vision: The organization's vision guides its business strategy and helps evaluate management practices.
2. Internal Environment: Creating a responsive environment, ensuring employee satisfaction, and maintaining culture and systems are challenging tasks.
3. Changing Industrial Relations: Harmonizing management philosophies for both workers and managers is a daunting task.
4. Building Organizational Capability: Ensuring employees are prepared for continual change even in adverse conditions.
5. Job Design & Organizational Structure: Understanding job roles, technology, and people involved in tasks is crucial.
6. Managing the Large Workforce: Managing a large workforce while respecting their rights poses challenges.
7. Psycho-Social Environment: Employee participation is essential for democratizing and humanizing institutions.
8. Employee Satisfaction: Motivating employees to satisfy their higher-level needs is crucial.
9. Modern Technology: Addressing potential unemployment due to technological advancements by assessing manpower needs.
10. Computerized Information System: Impacting managerial decision-making and organizational coordination.
11. Legal Environment: Adapting to legal changes for optimal human resources utilization.
12. Managing Human Relations: Balancing relations between educated and uneducated workforce.
In conclusion, despite the challenges, if HR Managers can overcome these obstacles with support from management and employees, they are a valuable investment for the organization. Managing employees in today's business world is increasingly complex and requires effective leadership from HR professionals.
From India, Gurgaon
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Mr. Suhas, Im agree with you but instead of saying this, one must light the importance of HR Managers so that other can get the real meaning and understand this.. Thanks
From India, Gurgaon
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
From India, Gurgaon
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Octavious, Im feeling very bad to know that you blv HR Managers are waste of Money.
You said “HR is seen as just an activity and assumed that doesn't have any contribution or cannot contribute towards organizational mission, goal and vision.”
Dear if you take this Human Resource functions as just an activity, then im sorry you won’t be able to see the actual work of HR Managers are doing for their organization bcz of you haven’t seen the right peoples and the contribution of HR Managers your around, you can’t say that HR Mangers are just wasting their time and it is not true I believe.
I have seen many successful peoples who have set an excellent example in this regard. We all know that in today’s big, complex and competitive world, HR Managers have to go thru many challenges to over HRD problems but it dosent mean that they are waste of Money.
Im not agree with your statement here. One more thing I wanna say here that you need to know that without Human Resource and Department none of single department can function properly. You need to study my “7 STARS of HR” which you can find in my old posted threads by clicking on my name “Find all post by anilkr.arora
Hope you wont take this personally as im just trying to tell you the importance of HRD and HRM in todays world.
From India, Gurgaon
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
You said “HR is seen as just an activity and assumed that doesn't have any contribution or cannot contribute towards organizational mission, goal and vision.”
Dear if you take this Human Resource functions as just an activity, then im sorry you won’t be able to see the actual work of HR Managers are doing for their organization bcz of you haven’t seen the right peoples and the contribution of HR Managers your around, you can’t say that HR Mangers are just wasting their time and it is not true I believe.
I have seen many successful peoples who have set an excellent example in this regard. We all know that in today’s big, complex and competitive world, HR Managers have to go thru many challenges to over HRD problems but it dosent mean that they are waste of Money.
Im not agree with your statement here. One more thing I wanna say here that you need to know that without Human Resource and Department none of single department can function properly. You need to study my “7 STARS of HR” which you can find in my old posted threads by clicking on my name “Find all post by anilkr.arora
Hope you wont take this personally as im just trying to tell you the importance of HRD and HRM in todays world.
From India, Gurgaon
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Hi All, I am Ajay and wants to do MBA in operations management through correspondence course. Is that possible ? , can any one help me in this regard ? regards Ajay
From India, Delhi
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
From India, Delhi
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Dear Anil,
I ask you to read the entire post I have written again void of emotions. You will understand what I have mentioned. I won't take things personally unless it is necessary. In the above case, it seems that you have answered in a hurry without understanding the reply that I have given to the person. Thanks for the suggestion, but I request you to do research on sarcasm, how and when it is used, and then read my answer with a new perception and a receptive mind.
Hope you will understand. Also, read the sentence in totality and not in parts. Also, thanks for letting me know how to search for your post.
Regards,
Octavious
From India, Mumbai
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
I ask you to read the entire post I have written again void of emotions. You will understand what I have mentioned. I won't take things personally unless it is necessary. In the above case, it seems that you have answered in a hurry without understanding the reply that I have given to the person. Thanks for the suggestion, but I request you to do research on sarcasm, how and when it is used, and then read my answer with a new perception and a receptive mind.
Hope you will understand. Also, read the sentence in totality and not in parts. Also, thanks for letting me know how to search for your post.
Regards,
Octavious
From India, Mumbai
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Hi,
I just have answered to you after reading your line “HR is seen as just an activity and assumed that doesn't have any contribution or cannot contribute towards organizational mission, goal and vision.” thats it!!
And i dont need to research on sarcasm and have nothing done like this.
From India, Gurgaon
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
I just have answered to you after reading your line “HR is seen as just an activity and assumed that doesn't have any contribution or cannot contribute towards organizational mission, goal and vision.” thats it!!
And i dont need to research on sarcasm and have nothing done like this.
From India, Gurgaon
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Dear Anil,
I think I have failed in explaining my views to you. Firstly, why are you reading only the last part of my entire sentence? Why can't you read it in totality? That is how it is meant to be read.
Second, if you don't understand sarcasm, you will not understand my reply to the query. When and where did I tell you that you have used sarcasm?
Enlarge your perception, understand what is not been told, learn to read between lines. It will help you in times to come.
Regards,
Octavious
From India, Mumbai
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
I think I have failed in explaining my views to you. Firstly, why are you reading only the last part of my entire sentence? Why can't you read it in totality? That is how it is meant to be read.
Second, if you don't understand sarcasm, you will not understand my reply to the query. When and where did I tell you that you have used sarcasm?
Enlarge your perception, understand what is not been told, learn to read between lines. It will help you in times to come.
Regards,
Octavious
From India, Mumbai
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Hi,
All the HR managers have their own roles and responsibilities towards the organization. However, from an external perspective, these roles may appear similar. It is important to communicate directly with the person responsible for that particular role to obtain the most up-to-date information.
Bharath Vinod
From India, Bangalore
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
All the HR managers have their own roles and responsibilities towards the organization. However, from an external perspective, these roles may appear similar. It is important to communicate directly with the person responsible for that particular role to obtain the most up-to-date information.
Bharath Vinod
From India, Bangalore
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Hi Octavious, Your answer to the post in sarcastic way is too good and eagerly waiting to see the reply from Nagbajjuri. Thanks and Regards, Vishal Vinod.
From India, Bangalore
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
From India, Bangalore
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Certainly NOT.... The advantages of HR in any organisation is immense and HR is regarded as a back bone of a company..!!!
From India, Ahmadabad
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
From India, Ahmadabad
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Hello everyone,
Thanks for the reply and for your precious contribution. First of all, I am not criticizing HRM. I am a postgraduate student in HRM from Wales University, UK.
I know that without HRM, it is equivalent to making noise in front of Duff & Dum. However, I am seeking the perfect answer to the above question. Can anyone evaluate the statement with the best suitable example?
Thank you, everyone, and a special mention to CITE HR.
From United Kingdom, London
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Thanks for the reply and for your precious contribution. First of all, I am not criticizing HRM. I am a postgraduate student in HRM from Wales University, UK.
I know that without HRM, it is equivalent to making noise in front of Duff & Dum. However, I am seeking the perfect answer to the above question. Can anyone evaluate the statement with the best suitable example?
Thank you, everyone, and a special mention to CITE HR.
From United Kingdom, London
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
I absolutely disagree that HR managers are a waste of money. Consider how relationships will exist in society. It is essential to understand human perceptions to comprehend their attitudes. Despite this, the HR department takes actions, and HR managers successfully meet challenges and motivate employees to contribute to the organization's success.
I believe that HR managers are the backbone of organizational actions and play a vital role in creating a healthy environment and shaping knowledgeable employees.
Regards,
Jyothirmai.
From India, Eluru
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
I believe that HR managers are the backbone of organizational actions and play a vital role in creating a healthy environment and shaping knowledgeable employees.
Regards,
Jyothirmai.
From India, Eluru
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Mr. Octavious, the same answer was expected from your side, and I told you earlier, please don't take it personally, but... well, you are still not getting my point about what I wanted to say here.
You know why I have used your statement, "Yes, HR is a waste of money when HR is controlled by management, when HR is seen as just an activity, and assumed that it doesn't have any contribution or cannot contribute towards organizational mission, goal, and vision," for my response in your complete post. I wanted to let you know that HR Managers are indeed contributing to achieving organizational missions, goals, and vision, or they are willing to do so, but they are doing their jobs accordingly.
First, Mr. Octavious, you have used HR instead of HR Manager here, please review your statement for this. We were discussing whether HR Managers are the real investment/money for the organization or not (Waste of Money), right? Your answers were all based on HR or HRD, but the main topic was whether the HR Managers are capable of establishing HR systems through their functions so that an organization can run smoothly/effectively to achieve the set mission, goals, and vision by the Organization, right?
Why haven't you made any comments on your other statement? Because I have never found anything wrong except your first statement.
HR Managers are doing their job, but the issue is that they are often constrained to do what Management wants them to do in many cases, but not completely. I agree with your statement, "HR is a waste of money when companies and top management want it to act as per their whims and fancies and don't like HR interventions."
A - You said, "HR is, of course, a waste of money when they are not considered as a strategic partner in business." Could you please explain this? What do you want from HRD, from our HR Managers in participating in making strategies, how to develop a business, or provide effective resources to other departments to function properly concerning the same, ACHIEVING THE GOALS, MISSION, AND VISION set by the organization? Why are you saying that HR is not considered as a strategic Business Partner? I don't think it falls under HR functions.
You have already mentioned, "Humans or the employees are the most important part of any organization. A good company becomes a great company through its employees," and I agree because Employees are the first resources that HR has to provide to all other departments to run an organization, and this falls under HR responsibilities. You were criticizing the whole Human Resource.
B - You said, "HR is a waste of time in those companies where HR is not seen as a department but treated more like an orderly." Yes, I agree, but my dear, you haven't noticed that I didn't say a single word about these statements because I agree with them and feel the same. Now, let me ask you one thing: do you really think that HR Managers are not doing their jobs or are not capable of creating a good system for running their organization smoothly?
I just wanted to say that it is incorrect to say that HR Managers are a waste of Money but they need to be more useful, effective towards the attainment of organizational goals and missions.
That's what I wanted to say here, and I hope I'm to the point and have made myself clear this time.
From India, Gurgaon
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
You know why I have used your statement, "Yes, HR is a waste of money when HR is controlled by management, when HR is seen as just an activity, and assumed that it doesn't have any contribution or cannot contribute towards organizational mission, goal, and vision," for my response in your complete post. I wanted to let you know that HR Managers are indeed contributing to achieving organizational missions, goals, and vision, or they are willing to do so, but they are doing their jobs accordingly.
First, Mr. Octavious, you have used HR instead of HR Manager here, please review your statement for this. We were discussing whether HR Managers are the real investment/money for the organization or not (Waste of Money), right? Your answers were all based on HR or HRD, but the main topic was whether the HR Managers are capable of establishing HR systems through their functions so that an organization can run smoothly/effectively to achieve the set mission, goals, and vision by the Organization, right?
Why haven't you made any comments on your other statement? Because I have never found anything wrong except your first statement.
HR Managers are doing their job, but the issue is that they are often constrained to do what Management wants them to do in many cases, but not completely. I agree with your statement, "HR is a waste of money when companies and top management want it to act as per their whims and fancies and don't like HR interventions."
A - You said, "HR is, of course, a waste of money when they are not considered as a strategic partner in business." Could you please explain this? What do you want from HRD, from our HR Managers in participating in making strategies, how to develop a business, or provide effective resources to other departments to function properly concerning the same, ACHIEVING THE GOALS, MISSION, AND VISION set by the organization? Why are you saying that HR is not considered as a strategic Business Partner? I don't think it falls under HR functions.
You have already mentioned, "Humans or the employees are the most important part of any organization. A good company becomes a great company through its employees," and I agree because Employees are the first resources that HR has to provide to all other departments to run an organization, and this falls under HR responsibilities. You were criticizing the whole Human Resource.
B - You said, "HR is a waste of time in those companies where HR is not seen as a department but treated more like an orderly." Yes, I agree, but my dear, you haven't noticed that I didn't say a single word about these statements because I agree with them and feel the same. Now, let me ask you one thing: do you really think that HR Managers are not doing their jobs or are not capable of creating a good system for running their organization smoothly?
I just wanted to say that it is incorrect to say that HR Managers are a waste of Money but they need to be more useful, effective towards the attainment of organizational goals and missions.
That's what I wanted to say here, and I hope I'm to the point and have made myself clear this time.
From India, Gurgaon
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Dear Anil,
Please find the answer to the query (how HR contributes to strategy) on your own. To start with, you need to read a lot on the current topic. The best would be to read up on HR activities of Accenture and Microsoft to begin with.
I am least interested in what you perceived because any person reading the post in its entirety will understand the view that I wished to communicate. I can help you understand a perception, but I cannot teach you. To teach a person, the individual must be ready to learn. A person with rigid views and ideas will find it very difficult to learn, understand new concepts, ideas, and ideology.
I wish not to discuss this topic further because you are repeating the same argument again and again, as I too tend to do the same. Hope you understand what I have requested.
Regards, Octavious
From India, Mumbai
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Please find the answer to the query (how HR contributes to strategy) on your own. To start with, you need to read a lot on the current topic. The best would be to read up on HR activities of Accenture and Microsoft to begin with.
I am least interested in what you perceived because any person reading the post in its entirety will understand the view that I wished to communicate. I can help you understand a perception, but I cannot teach you. To teach a person, the individual must be ready to learn. A person with rigid views and ideas will find it very difficult to learn, understand new concepts, ideas, and ideology.
I wish not to discuss this topic further because you are repeating the same argument again and again, as I too tend to do the same. Hope you understand what I have requested.
Regards, Octavious
From India, Mumbai
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
I suspect this was some sort of research question for a student. Instead of he/she doing the required research work, Cite members just gave the person the answer on a plate.
HR will always be a waste of money if the students today do not learn the fundamentals in their studies and enter the workforce knowing how to do the work they are paid to do. There are so many so-called "HR professionals" on CiteHR, constantly asking how to do basic HR tasks. It just beggars belief how these untrained people get responsible jobs in a complex field like HR.
During my career, I have had dealings with incompetent HR staff. It is those people that give HR a bad name and lead many other people to view that they are a waste of time, money, and space.
From Australia, Melbourne
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
HR will always be a waste of money if the students today do not learn the fundamentals in their studies and enter the workforce knowing how to do the work they are paid to do. There are so many so-called "HR professionals" on CiteHR, constantly asking how to do basic HR tasks. It just beggars belief how these untrained people get responsible jobs in a complex field like HR.
During my career, I have had dealings with incompetent HR staff. It is those people that give HR a bad name and lead many other people to view that they are a waste of time, money, and space.
From Australia, Melbourne
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Dear John,
You have hit the bull's eye. I too suspected the same. Ideally, we should not answer such questions with direct answers, but instead, give them responses in a manner that forces them to research more on the topic. Alternatively, we should consider avoiding the post altogether. Under no circumstances should we resort to the free information methodology.
Regards,
Octavious
From India, Mumbai
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
You have hit the bull's eye. I too suspected the same. Ideally, we should not answer such questions with direct answers, but instead, give them responses in a manner that forces them to research more on the topic. Alternatively, we should consider avoiding the post altogether. Under no circumstances should we resort to the free information methodology.
Regards,
Octavious
From India, Mumbai
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Dear Mr. Anil Arora,
Once we are raising some questions in an open forum, we must have the mentality of an empty glass to acquire knowledge from the raised questions. Only then can we pour or fill the empty glass. The discussion in this thread is akin to pouring into a filled glass, which cannot accept and retain the poured contents. If we have the habit of reading between the lines, it is not possible to have a fruitful discussion, and only heated arguments will take place.
Let us seize the opportunity to improve ourselves and learn something new starting today.
All the best.
From India, Kumbakonam
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Once we are raising some questions in an open forum, we must have the mentality of an empty glass to acquire knowledge from the raised questions. Only then can we pour or fill the empty glass. The discussion in this thread is akin to pouring into a filled glass, which cannot accept and retain the poured contents. If we have the habit of reading between the lines, it is not possible to have a fruitful discussion, and only heated arguments will take place.
Let us seize the opportunity to improve ourselves and learn something new starting today.
All the best.
From India, Kumbakonam
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Hahaha... folk, you are not correct. If you think all the calculations are done by the system automatically, then you are incorrect. All system outputs are partial, and we HRs validate the output and normalize the payouts. If that is not the case, each and every entry in the system will have the same hike % irrespective of performance. Do you think this is happening in your org?
We do follow the standards while assigning the hike rate based on the performance and feedback from the immediate reporting officials. We do consider numerous parameters. The automatic software only provides raw data, my dear friend.
From India, Bangalore
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
We do follow the standards while assigning the hike rate based on the performance and feedback from the immediate reporting officials. We do consider numerous parameters. The automatic software only provides raw data, my dear friend.
From India, Bangalore
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Dear friends,
Forget about whether HR is a waste of money or not. Simply answer: what is the role of a father and mother in your life? You come across news that babies are abandoned and shifted to children's home. What would have happened if our parents would have taken the same liberty? Whether to maintain law and order, police are required. What would happen if the police are on strike? Are you sure that your children, on whom you are spending so much money, will take care of you in the future? What would happen if you are wealthy enough and you are asking them to learn in municipal schools?
We are not living in an idle world where masters are capable of doing all tasks. Man, machine, material, and money are important ingredients in business. To take care of the machine, engineers are required; material is required for production; money is required for operation, and man is required to execute desired results. To take care of man, HR is a must.
So, think before making any statement that undermines any profession.
From India, Mumbai
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Forget about whether HR is a waste of money or not. Simply answer: what is the role of a father and mother in your life? You come across news that babies are abandoned and shifted to children's home. What would have happened if our parents would have taken the same liberty? Whether to maintain law and order, police are required. What would happen if the police are on strike? Are you sure that your children, on whom you are spending so much money, will take care of you in the future? What would happen if you are wealthy enough and you are asking them to learn in municipal schools?
We are not living in an idle world where masters are capable of doing all tasks. Man, machine, material, and money are important ingredients in business. To take care of the machine, engineers are required; material is required for production; money is required for operation, and man is required to execute desired results. To take care of man, HR is a must.
So, think before making any statement that undermines any profession.
From India, Mumbai
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
If you don't know the real meaning of an HR manager, then don't comment. You should know that HR Directors in India are receiving salaries in crores, and no company is willing to pay such a huge amount.
From India, Bhubaneswar
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
From India, Bhubaneswar
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Hello Octavious!!
You are very vehement about your views on HR Managers. Quite obviously you have had some bad experiences. I have dealt with men and material throughout my service career. I strongly believe that if you look after your men and material, nothing can prevent you from being successful. The functions of HR are manifold. Please do not look at it myopically as 'Payroll Management', which as someone aptly brought out can be admirably performed by an accountant with a simple computer and appropriate software. Yet, there are problems relating to this function. We humans are very clever, very innovative, and when we see an opportunity, we very conveniently discard our scruples - all for personal benefit. Simple manipulations can be carried out to deprive people of their dues. The HR manager is a guardian of the interests of workers.
In fact, the HR Manager can be likened to a mother in a family whose functions are the welfare of the family as against those of the father who brings in the daily bread. The father has his compulsions and external pressures and may be callous and demanding at home. After all, he has been at the receiving end all day while at work. Can't blame him. Yet to keep the family intact and allocate available resources evenly, it is the mother who stands up for her children. And the father has to accept her commands. If he doesn't, the entire family suffers.
In any organization, the role of HR would encompass, amongst other functions:
1. Recruitment.
2. Training and Professional Development of individuals.
3. Welfare of Personnel. This has very wide-ranging concerns.
(a) Pay and Emoluments.
(b) Promotional Prospects.
(c) Leave.
(d) Relief.
(e) Health.
(f) Dealing with Labour Issues.
4. Dealing with problems of Unions.
So, HR Managers are meant to do far more than what can be expected from an accountant. They are the backbone of the organization. So, please don't scoff at them as inconsequential. I agree that if the owner of the company uses them as tools to exercise his dictatorial fancies, they can perform a negative role. But isn't that true of any functionary in any organization?!
Finally, I'd like to say that let not your past poor experiences cloud your future vision.
With warm regards to one and all.
Aye,
Colonel Gahlot
Proprietor, 'TRURECRUIT'
9810081197
From India, Delhi
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
You are very vehement about your views on HR Managers. Quite obviously you have had some bad experiences. I have dealt with men and material throughout my service career. I strongly believe that if you look after your men and material, nothing can prevent you from being successful. The functions of HR are manifold. Please do not look at it myopically as 'Payroll Management', which as someone aptly brought out can be admirably performed by an accountant with a simple computer and appropriate software. Yet, there are problems relating to this function. We humans are very clever, very innovative, and when we see an opportunity, we very conveniently discard our scruples - all for personal benefit. Simple manipulations can be carried out to deprive people of their dues. The HR manager is a guardian of the interests of workers.
In fact, the HR Manager can be likened to a mother in a family whose functions are the welfare of the family as against those of the father who brings in the daily bread. The father has his compulsions and external pressures and may be callous and demanding at home. After all, he has been at the receiving end all day while at work. Can't blame him. Yet to keep the family intact and allocate available resources evenly, it is the mother who stands up for her children. And the father has to accept her commands. If he doesn't, the entire family suffers.
In any organization, the role of HR would encompass, amongst other functions:
1. Recruitment.
2. Training and Professional Development of individuals.
3. Welfare of Personnel. This has very wide-ranging concerns.
(a) Pay and Emoluments.
(b) Promotional Prospects.
(c) Leave.
(d) Relief.
(e) Health.
(f) Dealing with Labour Issues.
4. Dealing with problems of Unions.
So, HR Managers are meant to do far more than what can be expected from an accountant. They are the backbone of the organization. So, please don't scoff at them as inconsequential. I agree that if the owner of the company uses them as tools to exercise his dictatorial fancies, they can perform a negative role. But isn't that true of any functionary in any organization?!
Finally, I'd like to say that let not your past poor experiences cloud your future vision.
With warm regards to one and all.
Aye,
Colonel Gahlot
Proprietor, 'TRURECRUIT'
9810081197
From India, Delhi
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Hi friends,
I went through the arguments and counter-arguments for and against the topic.
No role in an organization is a waste. Much depends on how the organization is harnessing the strengths of the role for the organization's growth.
It is no longer HR, i.e. it is no longer Human Resource. In the latest context, we call it HCM, i.e. Human Capital Management. In other words, a human being is no longer a resource but should be treated like other capital-intensive investments such as machinery or equipment for enhancing the growth of the organization. Therefore, the HR department, which is involved in handling human capital from recruitment to retirement, cannot be brushed aside with a sweeping statement. I only presume that somebody has a lot of time to throw a spanner in the works and watch the tamasha brewing in the Cite HR!
If there is a difference of opinion about the effect or value or contribution of HR in a particular organization, then this matter should not be discussed, particularly on an HR-focused portal, as someone has mentioned above.
People who talk like that do not have any idea about the role of HR in an organization. Let not such people display their shallow knowledge in such a public domain!
It is like talking in a hospital, "Doctors are a waste!" Ask the guy to come and chat with me, who has spent 22 years in the field of HR out of 41 years of total work experience, and I will give him a run for his money! Hahahaha.
NK Sundaram
From India, Bengaluru
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
I went through the arguments and counter-arguments for and against the topic.
No role in an organization is a waste. Much depends on how the organization is harnessing the strengths of the role for the organization's growth.
It is no longer HR, i.e. it is no longer Human Resource. In the latest context, we call it HCM, i.e. Human Capital Management. In other words, a human being is no longer a resource but should be treated like other capital-intensive investments such as machinery or equipment for enhancing the growth of the organization. Therefore, the HR department, which is involved in handling human capital from recruitment to retirement, cannot be brushed aside with a sweeping statement. I only presume that somebody has a lot of time to throw a spanner in the works and watch the tamasha brewing in the Cite HR!
If there is a difference of opinion about the effect or value or contribution of HR in a particular organization, then this matter should not be discussed, particularly on an HR-focused portal, as someone has mentioned above.
People who talk like that do not have any idea about the role of HR in an organization. Let not such people display their shallow knowledge in such a public domain!
It is like talking in a hospital, "Doctors are a waste!" Ask the guy to come and chat with me, who has spent 22 years in the field of HR out of 41 years of total work experience, and I will give him a run for his money! Hahahaha.
NK Sundaram
From India, Bengaluru
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
I am not agree with this …word ….Nurse can give a medicine or injection to patient. But why Doctor is required in Hospital ? Nurse can manage the Hospital ? …………………Why we are appointing Doctor? …. Why we are taking treatment from Doctor ? Because he can do the right diagnosis and treatment ,his efficiency is more than a Nurse ……………….so HR is a like a Doctor ….account person can do the HR work but he can’t implement the HR practices and work force. Ask one account / production person to settle the employee dispute. Never he will become success, because he do not have Legal knowledge ……HR is a driver of the organization …without driver we cannot run the vehicle……………So don’t blame to HR ………. Can anyone do the Credit ,Debit ,Data entry ,salary calculation job ,but thing is to Manage the 5 M is important it is not a easy work …………………… Some time Account person is unable to manage 1M (Money ) and production person is unable to manage 1 M (Machine )…just think how HR can manage the 5 M…onetime. So My dear…………… HR is required in an Organization. He is a part of todays Business…………………….
Regards
Krishna Naik
From India, Mangaluru
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Regards
Krishna Naik
From India, Mangaluru
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Hey pals,
Let's keep it simple. People who were shown the boots from their organization will always agree with the above-mentioned statement. It seems there are many in the loop. Let's not encourage this topic started by one such person. We will retain HR's value.
Cheers, HR.
From India, Madras
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Let's keep it simple. People who were shown the boots from their organization will always agree with the above-mentioned statement. It seems there are many in the loop. Let's not encourage this topic started by one such person. We will retain HR's value.
Cheers, HR.
From India, Madras
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Dear nagabajjuri,
The question of judging HR arises when there is a system in place, so for that initial instance, HR is required.
HR deals with minds, behaviors, culture, and attributes of individuals, so in any company, it is HR who knows the employee better than anyone else. Therefore, HR is required.
Anyone can take care of payroll, PMS, etc., but to do so accurately, you need an HR professional who understands the processes and procedures in line with the company and its employees. Thus, HR is required.
For planning perks and recognitions, recreational activities, ER, engagement activities, HR is required.
To ensure people adhere to policies and procedures, HR is necessary.
When joining a new company, HR has to provide your BGV regarding your conduct, hence HR is required.
There are many more reasons why HR is needed, but I will keep this text short.
Even to answer your funny questions, HR is necessary.
So, if you consider an organization as a human body, HR is like the spine, without which it cannot stand.
I hope you understand the importance of HR.
From India, Hyderabad
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
The question of judging HR arises when there is a system in place, so for that initial instance, HR is required.
HR deals with minds, behaviors, culture, and attributes of individuals, so in any company, it is HR who knows the employee better than anyone else. Therefore, HR is required.
Anyone can take care of payroll, PMS, etc., but to do so accurately, you need an HR professional who understands the processes and procedures in line with the company and its employees. Thus, HR is required.
For planning perks and recognitions, recreational activities, ER, engagement activities, HR is required.
To ensure people adhere to policies and procedures, HR is necessary.
When joining a new company, HR has to provide your BGV regarding your conduct, hence HR is required.
There are many more reasons why HR is needed, but I will keep this text short.
Even to answer your funny questions, HR is necessary.
So, if you consider an organization as a human body, HR is like the spine, without which it cannot stand.
I hope you understand the importance of HR.
From India, Hyderabad
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Hi everyone, this is a nice topic to discuss. As the line goes, HR managers are a waste of money. What do they mean by this? Do they think they are good enough to manage the department? Employees/human beings are the most important part of any organization. To overcome their problems, we need an HR department. HR is not to be seen as a department; it's about managing relations. It is to motivate employees through gain or sharing and execute information through proper planning, organizing people, and leading and controlling their human resources.
As someone said that Defense and Police force are a waste to a Nation, but ask them to imagine a Nation without these two forces.
With Regards, Rajiv John +91-9943725111
From India, Tiruppur
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
As someone said that Defense and Police force are a waste to a Nation, but ask them to imagine a Nation without these two forces.
With Regards, Rajiv John +91-9943725111
From India, Tiruppur
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Mr. Arora,
I believe you have missed many functions in HRM and what their people do. Yes, in some areas, many HR managers are more than wasting money and are forming a real danger to the firm! On the other hand, many HR managers have been considered as a precious piece and a key element of many organizations' existence.
Regards,
From United Arab Emirates, Abu Dhabi
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
I believe you have missed many functions in HRM and what their people do. Yes, in some areas, many HR managers are more than wasting money and are forming a real danger to the firm! On the other hand, many HR managers have been considered as a precious piece and a key element of many organizations' existence.
Regards,
From United Arab Emirates, Abu Dhabi
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Dear Colonel Gahlot,
I didn't expect you to not get the sarcasm towards the person who raised a query, because a person with your level of exposure should have understood what and how I had replied. Young, less experienced professionals with less exposure to dealing with people, if stated above reply, I would have explained to him how I had replied to a query and why I replied in a sarcastic manner. But if people at your level can't get my sarcasm, then I really need to work on my communication skills. I am myself a professional from the field of HR, so why would I bad-mouth my own profession. Please don't be offended by what I said. I said what I honestly felt.
Regards,
Octavious
From India, Mumbai
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
I didn't expect you to not get the sarcasm towards the person who raised a query, because a person with your level of exposure should have understood what and how I had replied. Young, less experienced professionals with less exposure to dealing with people, if stated above reply, I would have explained to him how I had replied to a query and why I replied in a sarcastic manner. But if people at your level can't get my sarcasm, then I really need to work on my communication skills. I am myself a professional from the field of HR, so why would I bad-mouth my own profession. Please don't be offended by what I said. I said what I honestly felt.
Regards,
Octavious
From India, Mumbai
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
I think HR is waste of money for an organisation and the whole HR function can be outsourced. Because HR inhouse or outsourced acts only on the behalf of the Management.
From India, Mumbai
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
From India, Mumbai
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Hey Cyril, do you know anything about HR? May I know your industry profile - what are you working as and who recruited you? Please provide these details, and we will determine whether you are a waste or if HR managers are a waste.
Regards,
Venkatraman
From India, Madras
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Regards,
Venkatraman
From India, Madras
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
I am not agree with this …word ….Nurse can give a medicine or injection to patient. But why Doctor is required in Hospital ? Nurse can manage the Hospital ? …………………Why we are appointing Doctor? …. Why we are taking treatment from Doctor ? Because he can do the right diagnosis and treatment ,his efficiency is more than a Nurse ……………….so HR is a like a Doctor ….account person can do the HR work but he can’t implement the HR practices and work force. Ask one account / production person to settle the employee dispute. Never he will become success, because he do not have Legal knowledge ……HR is a driver of the organization …without driver we cannot run the vehicle……………So don’t blame to HR ………. Can anyone do the Credit ,Debit ,Data entry ,salary calculation job ,but thing is to Manage the 5 M is important it is not a easy work …………………… Some time Account person is unable to manage 1M (Money ) and production person is unable to manage 1 M (Machine )…just think how HR can manage the 5 M…onetime. So My dear…………… HR is required in an Organization. He is a part of todays Business…………………….
Regards
Krishna Naik
From India, Mangaluru
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Regards
Krishna Naik
From India, Mangaluru
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
well done anil Kumar Arora, good explanation to defend that the HR not waste of money. I am with you in this respect. Regards - anabayan
From India, Madras
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
From India, Madras
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
hai, In every organisation every dept has its own role when it accomplishes its role.But in most organisations the HR is for nothing but salary processing and to complete other statutory norms.
From India, Hyderabad
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
From India, Hyderabad
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Dear Anil Arora,
I appreciate your effort in making clear the role of HR in the organization. However, the question arises: why do only HR professionals have to clarify their contributions rather than their work profile?
Regards,
Dipen
HR Executive
From India, Pune
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
I appreciate your effort in making clear the role of HR in the organization. However, the question arises: why do only HR professionals have to clarify their contributions rather than their work profile?
Regards,
Dipen
HR Executive
From India, Pune
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Dear Anil,
“When men are most sure and arrogant, they are commonly most mistaken, giving vent to passion without that proper deliberation which alone can secure them from the grossest absurdities.” - David Hume
Yes, Anil, I am a student, and I will remain one throughout my life. Because I still believe that I have a lot to learn, and I wish to keep the learning curve alive all my life, not risking being stagnant by thinking I know a lot.
I request you to develop your skills in understanding simple requests made in English. I had requested you not to bother me with continuous comments that have nothing new to bring to the table for discussion.
“To excite opposition and inflame malevolence is the unhappy privilege of courage made arrogant by consciousness of strength.” - Samuel Jackson
Learning is a continuous process, and in that sense, I am a student because I learn new stuff every day, and this helps me be more knowledgeable and wise.
You are very knowledgeable, but then, too much knowledge without wisdom is like a load of books on the back of a donkey who can only carry it but can't use it.
You were quite amusing and persistent, but then, I request you again to please spare me the pain of this vague argument.
Regards,
Octavious
“Nobody can be so amusingly arrogant as a young man who has just discovered an old idea and thinks it is his own.” - Sydney J
From India, Mumbai
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
“When men are most sure and arrogant, they are commonly most mistaken, giving vent to passion without that proper deliberation which alone can secure them from the grossest absurdities.” - David Hume
Yes, Anil, I am a student, and I will remain one throughout my life. Because I still believe that I have a lot to learn, and I wish to keep the learning curve alive all my life, not risking being stagnant by thinking I know a lot.
I request you to develop your skills in understanding simple requests made in English. I had requested you not to bother me with continuous comments that have nothing new to bring to the table for discussion.
“To excite opposition and inflame malevolence is the unhappy privilege of courage made arrogant by consciousness of strength.” - Samuel Jackson
Learning is a continuous process, and in that sense, I am a student because I learn new stuff every day, and this helps me be more knowledgeable and wise.
You are very knowledgeable, but then, too much knowledge without wisdom is like a load of books on the back of a donkey who can only carry it but can't use it.
You were quite amusing and persistent, but then, I request you again to please spare me the pain of this vague argument.
Regards,
Octavious
“Nobody can be so amusingly arrogant as a young man who has just discovered an old idea and thinks it is his own.” - Sydney J
From India, Mumbai
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Hi,
I would say it is partly correct since the HR department is treated as an expense center. HR and admin in most organizations are treated as support functions that do not generate any revenues. So, hence management does treat us as "waste," but on the other hand, we generate human resources who bring revenue to the organizations. Recruitment, training, and development are areas where management has to shell out money rather than earn them, but they forget that in turn they get polished resources.
Regards, Priyanka.
From India, Mumbai
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
I would say it is partly correct since the HR department is treated as an expense center. HR and admin in most organizations are treated as support functions that do not generate any revenues. So, hence management does treat us as "waste," but on the other hand, we generate human resources who bring revenue to the organizations. Recruitment, training, and development are areas where management has to shell out money rather than earn them, but they forget that in turn they get polished resources.
Regards, Priyanka.
From India, Mumbai
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Dear Dipen Its good question, I suggest go to page two and read what Colonel Gahlot has written. Regards Octavious
From India, Mumbai
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
From India, Mumbai
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Dear All,
I have gone through this thread with interest. I hope some of you will understand why I do not give answers to queries but raise questions instead. For example, Nagbajjuri did not mention in his initial query that he/she was a student and that it was an assignment question. Octavious rightly points out that we should not give answers to students on a plate. I do not. I usually ask them to present a draft answer and then seek help to improve upon it.
Another observation is that rather than disagreeing with each other in public, it is better for us to write private messages to iron out any differences arising (most of the time) from not reading or grasping the other person's messages. Thus, more heat is generated rather than light being thrown.
I hope I have not hurt anyone's feelings.
Have a nice day.
Simhan
A retired academic in the UK
From United Kingdom
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
I have gone through this thread with interest. I hope some of you will understand why I do not give answers to queries but raise questions instead. For example, Nagbajjuri did not mention in his initial query that he/she was a student and that it was an assignment question. Octavious rightly points out that we should not give answers to students on a plate. I do not. I usually ask them to present a draft answer and then seek help to improve upon it.
Another observation is that rather than disagreeing with each other in public, it is better for us to write private messages to iron out any differences arising (most of the time) from not reading or grasping the other person's messages. Thus, more heat is generated rather than light being thrown.
I hope I have not hurt anyone's feelings.
Have a nice day.
Simhan
A retired academic in the UK
From United Kingdom
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Thanks, dear. But I was just saying here that HR Managers are doing their job and it's not like the organization has done something wrong or as the subject line is saying "Waste of Money."
If HR managers are being controlled by Management in many cases, it doesn't mean that HR Managers are not contributing towards the organization's goals, mission, and vision. HR is a part of the organization, and like every manager for every department in the organization, they are doing their job. One thing we must remember is that if Management can play with HR managers, they can play with other managers responsible for other departments too.
There are numerous examples set by the HR Managers if we look properly in the market.
Here on this platform, CiteHR, there are numerous Managers, and I would say if one has no faith in his capabilities & skills and has no guts to prove this wrong that HR Managers are just a waste of money, I don't think they can be a good or successful Manager in their life. I want examples and proof from everyone who still believes that HR managers are just a WASTE OF MONEY!!!
From India, Gurgaon
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
If HR managers are being controlled by Management in many cases, it doesn't mean that HR Managers are not contributing towards the organization's goals, mission, and vision. HR is a part of the organization, and like every manager for every department in the organization, they are doing their job. One thing we must remember is that if Management can play with HR managers, they can play with other managers responsible for other departments too.
There are numerous examples set by the HR Managers if we look properly in the market.
Here on this platform, CiteHR, there are numerous Managers, and I would say if one has no faith in his capabilities & skills and has no guts to prove this wrong that HR Managers are just a waste of money, I don't think they can be a good or successful Manager in their life. I want examples and proof from everyone who still believes that HR managers are just a WASTE OF MONEY!!!
From India, Gurgaon
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
You are right, Dipen. As we are discussing HR Managers and some have raised many questions in this regard, it is important to let them know what HR Managers are doing, and it is our duty to prove them wrong.
I strongly believe that the person who was saying that HR Managers are a waste of money for the organization must not join this respective area of function because there is no respect for this function shown by such statements.
For example, if you are an HR Manager, you know better than anyone what you are doing and contributing to your organization. You cannot take part in making strategies to run an organization because you have a different work/functional area, and you have to do your work properly and efficiently towards the attainment of organizational goals.
But if you are an Owner of a company and are not satisfied with your HR Manager/People because you feel that HR Managers are just busy making salary calculations and doing nothing else, you cannot be satisfied with their work and have no respect for them, meaning you do not understand the real value and meaning of HR.
I want to ask you, why are you placing them in your company if you think they are just a waste of money for your organization? Just for providing manpower to run the organization and for compensation calculations for your employees, you want an individual department in your company as the Human Resource. Why are you making an investment in this regard then? There is no need to give them the name "Human Resource Department."
I can reply to all those who criticize or agree with the statement "HR Managers are a Waste of Money" privately, but I want all of you to know that this is not true. It is not based on perception but on an understanding of the work of an HR Manager and why organizations still have this department.
If one can run his/her organization/company without having any HR Manager, please let me know and prove me wrong.
I request you all to understand what I wanted to say to all of you there and respect the HR Managers and their work.
If someone still thinks that I am not right here, feel free to contact me, and I will prove them wrong.
From India, Gurgaon
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
I strongly believe that the person who was saying that HR Managers are a waste of money for the organization must not join this respective area of function because there is no respect for this function shown by such statements.
For example, if you are an HR Manager, you know better than anyone what you are doing and contributing to your organization. You cannot take part in making strategies to run an organization because you have a different work/functional area, and you have to do your work properly and efficiently towards the attainment of organizational goals.
But if you are an Owner of a company and are not satisfied with your HR Manager/People because you feel that HR Managers are just busy making salary calculations and doing nothing else, you cannot be satisfied with their work and have no respect for them, meaning you do not understand the real value and meaning of HR.
I want to ask you, why are you placing them in your company if you think they are just a waste of money for your organization? Just for providing manpower to run the organization and for compensation calculations for your employees, you want an individual department in your company as the Human Resource. Why are you making an investment in this regard then? There is no need to give them the name "Human Resource Department."
I can reply to all those who criticize or agree with the statement "HR Managers are a Waste of Money" privately, but I want all of you to know that this is not true. It is not based on perception but on an understanding of the work of an HR Manager and why organizations still have this department.
If one can run his/her organization/company without having any HR Manager, please let me know and prove me wrong.
I request you all to understand what I wanted to say to all of you there and respect the HR Managers and their work.
If someone still thinks that I am not right here, feel free to contact me, and I will prove them wrong.
From India, Gurgaon
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Dear nagbajjuri,
It's my advice, please take some rest before criticizing a critical department, showing your frustration. Always think in a balanced way as HR people are intermediaries between employees and management. Think positive.
From India, Allahabad
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
It's my advice, please take some rest before criticizing a critical department, showing your frustration. Always think in a balanced way as HR people are intermediaries between employees and management. Think positive.
From India, Allahabad
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
O hello sir,
please dont degrade other professions by calling account person is unable to manage 1 money and production person is unable to manage 1 machine, like this stuff, everyone knows importance of accounts, production people, they are very respected people, unlike HR though it might HURT all HR people but truth is no one RESPECTS HR out of love all do out of FEAR .
And you tell HR manages 5M at one time, come on , fekne ki bhi haad hoti hain yaar
From India, Madras
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
please dont degrade other professions by calling account person is unable to manage 1 money and production person is unable to manage 1 machine, like this stuff, everyone knows importance of accounts, production people, they are very respected people, unlike HR though it might HURT all HR people but truth is no one RESPECTS HR out of love all do out of FEAR .
And you tell HR manages 5M at one time, come on , fekne ki bhi haad hoti hain yaar
From India, Madras
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Anyone can make statements of this sort. But before supporting these kinds of statements, we should understand that a visit to the HR department is unavoidable in the following cases:
1. When your salary account is not credited on time (finance department is involved but HR takes care of the routing!)
2. When your incentive is less than your colleague's incentive (even after you receive the same performance appraisal as your friend!)
3. When you have any doubts regarding PF, gratuity, and other schemes.
4. When your visa processing is taking a lot of time.
No other departments (finance, marketing, production, public relations...) would help you out in these situations. The contents in the list may sound unattractive. However, HR at a higher level involves bigger deals like OD, OC, T and D, Talent acquisition, etc.
Ponder over this for a while before making such statements, my friend.
From India, Madurai
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
1. When your salary account is not credited on time (finance department is involved but HR takes care of the routing!)
2. When your incentive is less than your colleague's incentive (even after you receive the same performance appraisal as your friend!)
3. When you have any doubts regarding PF, gratuity, and other schemes.
4. When your visa processing is taking a lot of time.
No other departments (finance, marketing, production, public relations...) would help you out in these situations. The contents in the list may sound unattractive. However, HR at a higher level involves bigger deals like OD, OC, T and D, Talent acquisition, etc.
Ponder over this for a while before making such statements, my friend.
From India, Madurai
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
No, not at all.
1) HR professionals are the bridges between management and others.
2) They are the arbiters to solve all conflicts.
3) They are tasked with finding proper, useful, and loyal staff members.
4) They are motivators to improve productivity, etc.
Of course, they also perform thankless jobs like watchdogs, often working behind the curtains. This may lead to the opinion that HR professionals are a waste of money.
From India, Pune
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
1) HR professionals are the bridges between management and others.
2) They are the arbiters to solve all conflicts.
3) They are tasked with finding proper, useful, and loyal staff members.
4) They are motivators to improve productivity, etc.
Of course, they also perform thankless jobs like watchdogs, often working behind the curtains. This may lead to the opinion that HR professionals are a waste of money.
From India, Pune
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Hi nagbajjuri. Hope you doing grt. total organization sucess depends on hr.hr plays vital role in the organization every department has thr own importants so we cant say waste of money.
From India, Hyderabad
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
From India, Hyderabad
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
The person who thinks HR Manager is waste of money needs to understand the meaning of HR. Cause who thinks in that way , he him self is waste in life.
From India, Pune
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
From India, Pune
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Hi,
If you have such a notion, then I think you are just a fresher or a newborn baby in this professional world. HR is the backbone of any industry and domain, and they work very closely with management as well as employees. If there were no HR, imagine the pathetic situation of employees and management. For employees, they look after their welfare, and for management, they utilize the maximum of the human asset! So, my dear friend, I request you not to make such statements on a public platform.
Regards,
AMIT SHIVAM
HR Manager
From India, Chandigarh
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
If you have such a notion, then I think you are just a fresher or a newborn baby in this professional world. HR is the backbone of any industry and domain, and they work very closely with management as well as employees. If there were no HR, imagine the pathetic situation of employees and management. For employees, they look after their welfare, and for management, they utilize the maximum of the human asset! So, my dear friend, I request you not to make such statements on a public platform.
Regards,
AMIT SHIVAM
HR Manager
From India, Chandigarh
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Hi Octavious,
Firstly, let me apologize if I riled you any further than you already were. I did see a clear streak of sarcasm in your post but decided against seeing it as such for the following reasons:-
1. Sarcasm, by implication, is forbidden on this forum!
2. Sarcasm achieves NOTHING!! It is the Achilles Heel of communication!!
You are training to be an HR professional and might well take note that you may say much but convey nothing. Ours was meant to be a positive discussion. Firing it up with sarcasm has set fire to it at both ends. Actually, 90% of people will miss points made in sarcasm. Not everyone is that clever, you see. And yet you have to deal with such people every day. Hence, if you wish to communicate successfully, it is best avoided.
But I'm glad that you agree that HR Managers are an essential part of an organization. They really are the backbone.
I also think it is time to correct the direction this discussion has taken. My appeal to all members is that, please don't get emotional about the discussion and various points raised by members. Don't just agree or disagree. Contribute if you can. Else read, imbibe, and leave it at that.
And finally, Octavious, 'No hard feelings'.
Warm regards,
Colonel Gahlot
From India, Delhi
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Firstly, let me apologize if I riled you any further than you already were. I did see a clear streak of sarcasm in your post but decided against seeing it as such for the following reasons:-
1. Sarcasm, by implication, is forbidden on this forum!
2. Sarcasm achieves NOTHING!! It is the Achilles Heel of communication!!
You are training to be an HR professional and might well take note that you may say much but convey nothing. Ours was meant to be a positive discussion. Firing it up with sarcasm has set fire to it at both ends. Actually, 90% of people will miss points made in sarcasm. Not everyone is that clever, you see. And yet you have to deal with such people every day. Hence, if you wish to communicate successfully, it is best avoided.
But I'm glad that you agree that HR Managers are an essential part of an organization. They really are the backbone.
I also think it is time to correct the direction this discussion has taken. My appeal to all members is that, please don't get emotional about the discussion and various points raised by members. Don't just agree or disagree. Contribute if you can. Else read, imbibe, and leave it at that.
And finally, Octavious, 'No hard feelings'.
Warm regards,
Colonel Gahlot
From India, Delhi
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
No, I don't agree with this. How do you think the organizational activity can be executed efficiently without HR managers? Without them, it is possible, but the expected work won't be done with diligence and quality. Will you compromise on quality just for plenty of other reasons? Of course, no one will.
P.S: I might have sounded rude in this mail because what you said was not an acceptable point. Anyway, sorry if I was rude.
- Saranya
From India, Pondicherry
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
P.S: I might have sounded rude in this mail because what you said was not an acceptable point. Anyway, sorry if I was rude.
- Saranya
From India, Pondicherry
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Mr. Cyril Sunil,
You say HR activity can be outsourced. Do you mean that such HR activities will be carried out by Lawyers or Doctors? Whether the activity is carried out in-house or outsourced, it needs to be handled by HR professionals who specialize in that segment of business. Then why do so many business schools exist? You could recommend to the government to shut down the HR line itself.
Let's encourage meaningful discussions instead of just joining the conversation for the sake of it, or to see our names in print!
NK Sundaram
From India, Bengaluru
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
You say HR activity can be outsourced. Do you mean that such HR activities will be carried out by Lawyers or Doctors? Whether the activity is carried out in-house or outsourced, it needs to be handled by HR professionals who specialize in that segment of business. Then why do so many business schools exist? You could recommend to the government to shut down the HR line itself.
Let's encourage meaningful discussions instead of just joining the conversation for the sake of it, or to see our names in print!
NK Sundaram
From India, Bengaluru
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Dear Colonel Gahlot,
I have learned one lesson in life that is, give what a person or thing deserves to be given.
For example: I will pay only Rs. 100 for stuff of one hundred and not Rs. 150/-. Similarly, the question posted deserved the answer like the one I posted. Sometimes sarcasm works the best. I believe that sarcasm in itself is a very useful tool and can be used in our favor to avoid situations where any other form of communication would not give effective and desired results.
There is no clause in citehr rules where sarcasm is labeled as an injurious mode of conveying ideas or thoughts.
Neurophysiologist Katherine Rankin at the University of California, San Francisco, has also recently discovered that sarcasm, which is both positively funny and negatively nasty, plays an important part in human social interaction. Understanding the subtlety of this usage requires a second-order interpretation of the speaker's intentions. This sophisticated understanding can be lacking in some people with certain forms of brain damage, dementia, and autism, and this perception has been located by MRI in the right parahippocampal gyrus.
Either way, sarcasm plays a role in making and breaking alliances and friendships, so it is wrong to say that sarcasm is a negative essence in communication.
Sarcasm is used for many different reasons, sometimes to simply subvert the original meaning of what is being said as a satire or sending up of the subject. Sarcasm is ever present in literature, particularly in English literature.
Achievements of Sarcasm
When David Beckham got himself sent off for clapping the referee who had booked him, that so boosted his standing in the nation, didn't it? (Incidentally, the England captain had the last laugh, when it was later judged he hadn't meant to insult the ref.)
Some of the great figures of comedy, from Beatrice and Benedick to Chandler Bing, have endeared themselves to discerning audiences with sarcasm.
I am sorry it took some time for me to reply because all this information had to be collected from various online sources.
And all the above information can be cross-checked by any person who wants to know more about sarcasm.
One more thing, Colonel Gahlot, shouldn't people be asked to raise their standards of understanding and perception instead of me trying to lower my standards of communication?
I can't be blamed if people aren't clever and intelligent.
I am not at all angry at the comments that are being sent across because I can't help it if people aren't ready to learn and evolve even after explanations and intentions between the posts authored by me.
Regards,
Octavious
From India, Mumbai
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
I have learned one lesson in life that is, give what a person or thing deserves to be given.
For example: I will pay only Rs. 100 for stuff of one hundred and not Rs. 150/-. Similarly, the question posted deserved the answer like the one I posted. Sometimes sarcasm works the best. I believe that sarcasm in itself is a very useful tool and can be used in our favor to avoid situations where any other form of communication would not give effective and desired results.
There is no clause in citehr rules where sarcasm is labeled as an injurious mode of conveying ideas or thoughts.
Neurophysiologist Katherine Rankin at the University of California, San Francisco, has also recently discovered that sarcasm, which is both positively funny and negatively nasty, plays an important part in human social interaction. Understanding the subtlety of this usage requires a second-order interpretation of the speaker's intentions. This sophisticated understanding can be lacking in some people with certain forms of brain damage, dementia, and autism, and this perception has been located by MRI in the right parahippocampal gyrus.
Either way, sarcasm plays a role in making and breaking alliances and friendships, so it is wrong to say that sarcasm is a negative essence in communication.
Sarcasm is used for many different reasons, sometimes to simply subvert the original meaning of what is being said as a satire or sending up of the subject. Sarcasm is ever present in literature, particularly in English literature.
Achievements of Sarcasm
When David Beckham got himself sent off for clapping the referee who had booked him, that so boosted his standing in the nation, didn't it? (Incidentally, the England captain had the last laugh, when it was later judged he hadn't meant to insult the ref.)
Some of the great figures of comedy, from Beatrice and Benedick to Chandler Bing, have endeared themselves to discerning audiences with sarcasm.
I am sorry it took some time for me to reply because all this information had to be collected from various online sources.
And all the above information can be cross-checked by any person who wants to know more about sarcasm.
One more thing, Colonel Gahlot, shouldn't people be asked to raise their standards of understanding and perception instead of me trying to lower my standards of communication?
I can't be blamed if people aren't clever and intelligent.
I am not at all angry at the comments that are being sent across because I can't help it if people aren't ready to learn and evolve even after explanations and intentions between the posts authored by me.
Regards,
Octavious
From India, Mumbai
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Please stop discussing whether sarcasm is appropriate and concentrate on the topic. We can argue all day and get nowhere regarding if "sarcasm" can be understood by everyone and if it's appropriate to use it. Ultimately, it's up to the person to decide whether to use it or not. Judging by what I read of Octavius's first post - I don't think he meant any harm and was definitely pointing out that HR should be considered an asset to the company.
Regards,
CHR
From India, Gurgaon
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Regards,
CHR
From India, Gurgaon
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Dear All, The greatest resource is the 'Human Resource' and the person who manages it efficiently determines the fate of every organization. And that remarkable person is "HR". Agree friends?
From India, Madras
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
From India, Madras
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Greetings,
This thread is declared closed at the request of members. We kindly ask those who wish to brainstorm and find a solution to please start a new thread. You may link it to this discussion as a reference.
Regards,
(Cite Contribution)
From India, Mumbai
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
This thread is declared closed at the request of members. We kindly ask those who wish to brainstorm and find a solution to please start a new thread. You may link it to this discussion as a reference.
Regards,
(Cite Contribution)
From India, Mumbai
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Nagbhushan, HR has the right to hand over the pink slip, reject your candidature, and quit the company. Additionally, we are lighthearted to arrange a vehicle to drop you home. Don't mess with HR... Human Resource - High-Risk.
Rohit
From India, Mumbai
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Rohit
From India, Mumbai
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
In India, most of the companies don't have any concept of HR. The owners and management of the company don't believe in the concept of HR. HR is just a puppet in the hands of the owner and management. Very few big companies may be an exception to this case in India. The concept of HR in India is not very mature. Only in magazines and articles, big and glossy things are written about HR. That HR is this and HR is that. That is all nonsense practically in India, except for very few organizations like TATA, etc., and such like.
From India, Ghaziabad
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
From India, Ghaziabad
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)Looking for something specific? - Join & Be Part Of Our Community and get connected with the right people who can help. Our AI-powered platform provides real-time fact-checking, peer-reviewed insights, and a vast historical knowledge base to support your search.
7 Rules of Excellence for HR Managers.doc