Sir, Plz .assist me how to overcome with bad situation in plant. I am union member and our lts (long term settlement) case is pending in industrial tribunal and the management has issued for one to one settlement and some of the guy are also accepting the offer because it's too late about 2 years
From India, Bhubaneswar
3From India, Bhubaneswar
Dear Pradeep,
Pendency of a dispute for a long period before any Judicial Forum can not be a bar for the disputants to settle the dispute among themselves bilaterally outside.
Why not the management talk to the union and arrive at an amicable settlement of the pending dispute? In stead if the management indulges in a one-to-one settlement with the workmen, there is every justification for the presumption that the management wants to break the union.
What about the conditions of service of those workmen who do not sign such a settlement? In case the no. of non-signatories are more, how will the management implement the settlement - will they have two sets of service conditions for the same class of workmen if the settlement combines the rate of wages with the quantum of work load?
I think the present move of the management is neither correct nor appropriate. It might be successful in the shortrun; but what is the gurantee that the workmen would not join together to thwart such individual settlements on the ground of the same having been obtained by coercion and intimidation? This is certainly an unbecoming strategy of industrial relations belonging to the Colonial Era.
It is equally important that while management requires unlearning of certain despicable acts, the union also needs a lot of learning of the process of effective collective bargaining. For the sake of popularity and personal grudges of the office-bearers, the union should not press for unrealistic demands. No employer can ever satisfy all the needs of his employees.
Both the management and the union of workmen should recognize the fact that a worst bi-lateral settlement arising out of an ideal collective bargaining will, in the long run, be better than the best award coming out of adjudication.
From India, Salem
Pendency of a dispute for a long period before any Judicial Forum can not be a bar for the disputants to settle the dispute among themselves bilaterally outside.
Why not the management talk to the union and arrive at an amicable settlement of the pending dispute? In stead if the management indulges in a one-to-one settlement with the workmen, there is every justification for the presumption that the management wants to break the union.
What about the conditions of service of those workmen who do not sign such a settlement? In case the no. of non-signatories are more, how will the management implement the settlement - will they have two sets of service conditions for the same class of workmen if the settlement combines the rate of wages with the quantum of work load?
I think the present move of the management is neither correct nor appropriate. It might be successful in the shortrun; but what is the gurantee that the workmen would not join together to thwart such individual settlements on the ground of the same having been obtained by coercion and intimidation? This is certainly an unbecoming strategy of industrial relations belonging to the Colonial Era.
It is equally important that while management requires unlearning of certain despicable acts, the union also needs a lot of learning of the process of effective collective bargaining. For the sake of popularity and personal grudges of the office-bearers, the union should not press for unrealistic demands. No employer can ever satisfy all the needs of his employees.
Both the management and the union of workmen should recognize the fact that a worst bi-lateral settlement arising out of an ideal collective bargaining will, in the long run, be better than the best award coming out of adjudication.
From India, Salem
Plz suggest me ,if a matter is pending in industrial tribunal LTS (long term settlement) and LTS is delayed since last 23 month and management is not responding regarding this matter though it's too late our union member is intrest for strike is there any scope for a strike with this matter or strike with another issue which is always happened in plant if we go 4 strike what out put comes and also what action should management takes against the union member.
2)since last five year in our plant one trade union is functioned and we are applied for recognition to govt of odisha and govt also give permission for recognition when we submit the letter to management ,management is not responding since last one year .and in between management also create a pocket union having a member of less than 30 and our member is more than 180 what should be the action taken against management legally plz suggest me
Regards
Pradeep
Sir
From India, Bhubaneswar
2)since last five year in our plant one trade union is functioned and we are applied for recognition to govt of odisha and govt also give permission for recognition when we submit the letter to management ,management is not responding since last one year .and in between management also create a pocket union having a member of less than 30 and our member is more than 180 what should be the action taken against management legally plz suggest me
Regards
Pradeep
Sir
From India, Bhubaneswar
I think the management is wrong and is doing an unfair practice by allowing to form an employer sponsored union. Similarly, the management by doing one to one settlement is actually allowing the workers to work by accepting good conduct bond. The employer should not have acted like this. However, in fact, as Umakanthan Sir has pointed out, you should have an amicable settlement. You should be realistic and see the issue from the company’s perspective also. If you, as a member of the Union, can take initiative and bring to the notice of all others the real situation of the company, it would be good. Demanding an unrealistic hike in the salary and other service conditions will not be accepted even by the adjudication machinery. Therefore, you may fix a border line and start negotiating afresh and if a bi lateral settlement is arrived at, it will be good for all. If you start strike, the management will declare lock out. Who is the loser? Only the employees will be at a loss and ultimately, when the employees are about to lose their job, at least a portion of the employees will accept the conditions proposed by the management and withdraw from the strike. The strike will have an end then. On the other hand, if you draw a new border line and negotiate with the management now, you may be able to take the things as you like. Since you know what is the level at which the management is doing the one to one, you can take this as the border line. You can even take a little higher level for starting the negotiation and bring a settlement.
Alternatively, you can also file a representation before the Tribunal that the management is doing one to one and is trying to have a self sponsored union which are unfair as per ID Act.
Madhu.T.K
From India, Kannur
Alternatively, you can also file a representation before the Tribunal that the management is doing one to one and is trying to have a self sponsored union which are unfair as per ID Act.
Madhu.T.K
From India, Kannur
Sir
Since last one year ago when the LTS matter was during conciliation near the ALC a small disturbance is created between workers and management due to this issue the union office bearer including general secretary and vice president of union try to solve the issue with management and the matter was solved bilaterally at same time. and union also kept the agreement copy.after the finalisation at about one and half month the management issue 4 member charge sheet cum suspension letter including general secretary and vice president and another 4 member only show cause letter and the inquiry is still continuing and the most important thing is the union office bearer who were suspend ed are protected workmen and management not give permission to enter plant to suspended worker after that when the bilaterally discuss was arrived about LTS out side the plant premise the office bearer can't to talk to the union member properly about LTS meeting and management shows that the suspended workmen was created a riot in plant and also shows that these people are involving in for misbehave lady management staff in that time which are false and baseless bCz we have also the video of matter happened earlier .now the union is demanding to solve both issue but the management clearly indicate that both issue are diffrent both are solved one by one after the complition of enquiry first u solve LTS but now we are feeling that the suspension is now going to terminate now my question is
1) union should final one which is LTS or or wait for both
2)if union final LTS what about the suspended workers feature
3)and what about the recognization the union given by the govt.
From India, Bhubaneswar
Since last one year ago when the LTS matter was during conciliation near the ALC a small disturbance is created between workers and management due to this issue the union office bearer including general secretary and vice president of union try to solve the issue with management and the matter was solved bilaterally at same time. and union also kept the agreement copy.after the finalisation at about one and half month the management issue 4 member charge sheet cum suspension letter including general secretary and vice president and another 4 member only show cause letter and the inquiry is still continuing and the most important thing is the union office bearer who were suspend ed are protected workmen and management not give permission to enter plant to suspended worker after that when the bilaterally discuss was arrived about LTS out side the plant premise the office bearer can't to talk to the union member properly about LTS meeting and management shows that the suspended workmen was created a riot in plant and also shows that these people are involving in for misbehave lady management staff in that time which are false and baseless bCz we have also the video of matter happened earlier .now the union is demanding to solve both issue but the management clearly indicate that both issue are diffrent both are solved one by one after the complition of enquiry first u solve LTS but now we are feeling that the suspension is now going to terminate now my question is
1) union should final one which is LTS or or wait for both
2)if union final LTS what about the suspended workers feature
3)and what about the recognization the union given by the govt.
From India, Bhubaneswar
Issues are much complected than expected!
If the management is terminating the workmen, that can be challenged saying that principles of natural justice were denied to them. Naturally, if permission from the Court/ Tribunal where the settlement proceedings are going on has not been obtained before issuing a charge sheet to the protected workers, you can approach the same machinery for assistance saying that the charges are directly connected to the demands.
It can also be an opportunity for the management to win the situation that they will drop the cases against your fellow members and ask you people to sign the settlement at the level which is acceptable to the management only. Therefore, if the union is ready for a settlement, you can put a demand that there should not be any action against them nor they will not be victimised in future.
Recognition will remain in force till the expiry of the period granted. That is even not an issue but what is primary is to make a settlement acceptable to the majority of workers.
Madhu.T.K
From India, Kannur
If the management is terminating the workmen, that can be challenged saying that principles of natural justice were denied to them. Naturally, if permission from the Court/ Tribunal where the settlement proceedings are going on has not been obtained before issuing a charge sheet to the protected workers, you can approach the same machinery for assistance saying that the charges are directly connected to the demands.
It can also be an opportunity for the management to win the situation that they will drop the cases against your fellow members and ask you people to sign the settlement at the level which is acceptable to the management only. Therefore, if the union is ready for a settlement, you can put a demand that there should not be any action against them nor they will not be victimised in future.
Recognition will remain in force till the expiry of the period granted. That is even not an issue but what is primary is to make a settlement acceptable to the majority of workers.
Madhu.T.K
From India, Kannur
Not only complicated the issue has become but also the position of the union has become precarious. Now, two challenges are before the union - one is to forge out a settlement as soon as possible regarding the long term issues peding adjudication to get back the trust of the workmen and two is to protect the jobs of the charge-sheeted office bearers. Since the matter of obtaining prior permission for terminating the protected workmen is a concurrent issue with the pendency of the dispute, once the dipute is over with the signing of the settlement, the matter of permission would become infructuous. That's the trump card the management wants to use. So, Pradeep, the ball is in your court. If you want to save the union, sign the settlement first as insisted by the management because you are very firm that the charges are fabricated and await the outcome of the enquiry against the office bearers. Otherwise, bring the current situation to the notice of the tribunal and file an expedite petition for the early disposal of the dispute. There is every chance that the management may prolong the enquiry as long as the dispute is pending and terminate them only after passing of the award so that prior permission would be out of question. To solve both the issues at one go, the union has to make some concessions as suggested by Mr.Madhu. Ensure that the concessions are not too costly. Good luck!
From India, Salem
From India, Salem
Dear All,
I am very small to say anything in this matter but want to add my view. As per office bearer his question is absolutely right but when we think as an HR/IR Manager or employer side then i think there is nothing doing wrong by company. because its tactic to deal with union matters then why all HR person are giving suggestion to a union office bearer. it may be an unfair labour practice but nothing wrong. as an Management everything is possible in union handeling. because have union members think about unjustify demands of their with management. they never think so why we put mercy for him.
according to me management is doing very correct. feel sorry if anybody have hearted anybody.
From India, Rudarpur
I am very small to say anything in this matter but want to add my view. As per office bearer his question is absolutely right but when we think as an HR/IR Manager or employer side then i think there is nothing doing wrong by company. because its tactic to deal with union matters then why all HR person are giving suggestion to a union office bearer. it may be an unfair labour practice but nothing wrong. as an Management everything is possible in union handeling. because have union members think about unjustify demands of their with management. they never think so why we put mercy for him.
according to me management is doing very correct. feel sorry if anybody have hearted anybody.
From India, Rudarpur
Dear Gautham,
There is nothing to be disheartened with any member for his views on a particular issue. In fact, contrary views promote healthy discussions and enrich our knowledge and therefore, your observations are taken in good stead only. However, I am to point out that if you are a bit patient enough to analyse the situation described in the original post and further explained in the follow ups and the responses of Mr.Madhu and myself, you will certainly understand that our suggestions are free from any bias. In industrial disputes, whether it is the management or the union of workmen, the disputants would always project only half truths in their respective versions. Here in this thread the forum has no opportunity to know the version of the management. What we can cull out at best is that there is no cordial relationship between the union and the management right from the very beginning for obvious reasons and it gets sharply reflected in the long pending adjudication and the prop up of a rival union by the management with a simultaneous attempt to effect individual settlements with every workman regarding the issues pending adjudication. So it is clear that both still try to outsmart each other. Now, the pending disciplinary action against the office bearers has become a contentious issue blocking the bilateral negotiations of the long term settlement. If the workmen want to save the union by signing the settlement as insisted by the management, they can not save the charge-sheeted office bearers. If the management drops the disciplinary action for the sake of an out-of- Court settlement with the union, discipline in the industry or prestige of the management would be at stake. Any tactics or strategy, whether adopted by the management or by the union in resolving an issue would be meaningful, appropriate and appreciable only as long as it produces the desired result. Otherwise it would be totally inappropriate, if not wrong for there is no right or wrong in industrial relations. There can not be the so-called "win-win situation" in industrial relations but only a " both-gain- situation" provided both the disputants realise their respective strengths and weaknesses in the interest of all stake-holders of the industry.
From India, Salem
There is nothing to be disheartened with any member for his views on a particular issue. In fact, contrary views promote healthy discussions and enrich our knowledge and therefore, your observations are taken in good stead only. However, I am to point out that if you are a bit patient enough to analyse the situation described in the original post and further explained in the follow ups and the responses of Mr.Madhu and myself, you will certainly understand that our suggestions are free from any bias. In industrial disputes, whether it is the management or the union of workmen, the disputants would always project only half truths in their respective versions. Here in this thread the forum has no opportunity to know the version of the management. What we can cull out at best is that there is no cordial relationship between the union and the management right from the very beginning for obvious reasons and it gets sharply reflected in the long pending adjudication and the prop up of a rival union by the management with a simultaneous attempt to effect individual settlements with every workman regarding the issues pending adjudication. So it is clear that both still try to outsmart each other. Now, the pending disciplinary action against the office bearers has become a contentious issue blocking the bilateral negotiations of the long term settlement. If the workmen want to save the union by signing the settlement as insisted by the management, they can not save the charge-sheeted office bearers. If the management drops the disciplinary action for the sake of an out-of- Court settlement with the union, discipline in the industry or prestige of the management would be at stake. Any tactics or strategy, whether adopted by the management or by the union in resolving an issue would be meaningful, appropriate and appreciable only as long as it produces the desired result. Otherwise it would be totally inappropriate, if not wrong for there is no right or wrong in industrial relations. There can not be the so-called "win-win situation" in industrial relations but only a " both-gain- situation" provided both the disputants realise their respective strengths and weaknesses in the interest of all stake-holders of the industry.
From India, Salem
Sir
Firstly I thanks u for ur valuable suggestion .the settlement date was on 13 jan 2017 in industrial tribunaland the management apply for time petition for 7weeks but the judge is refused it and gave only one month time saying that u have already taken 2years so this is ur last time no further time will be given u in future for document preparation if u apply for time petition then I will hearing the case in next date.
Now a incident was happened with me today that due to my involving in union activity the management want to dominate me .by using false alligation against me through my executive .now the management issue me a letter and through this letter management want to sign the one to one settle ment by me
Briefly I describe the charges that the management put in my letter
I am working as operator in department production and supervisor told me that u have to this work and the work is, long stainless steel are unloaded from truck and the supervisor told me that u have to carry this scarp simply I told that this not my duty and I could not doit then simply supervisor told me that so u go to ur working area
Another matter is anew production machinery line was inaugurated on 10 th jan 2017 so I visited with my some other friends to that line with taking permission from safety officer and issuing helmet from him and asking for reflective jacket he replied me that we have no jacket so u should go with helmet then we just entering that area and executive said that without reflective jacket no one is allowed here so leave that place without any hesitation and in my working area no production planning since last 4 month and all are moving with same without no permission so now the management is false ly blaming with this letter not only first time but also regularly harassed me by using diffrent methods so what should I do in this situation plz assist me and if possible plz draft alerted 4 me in reply bcoz sum of the legal word couldn't understand by me so I apply for same in odia as my mother language
From India, Bhubaneswar
Firstly I thanks u for ur valuable suggestion .the settlement date was on 13 jan 2017 in industrial tribunaland the management apply for time petition for 7weeks but the judge is refused it and gave only one month time saying that u have already taken 2years so this is ur last time no further time will be given u in future for document preparation if u apply for time petition then I will hearing the case in next date.
Now a incident was happened with me today that due to my involving in union activity the management want to dominate me .by using false alligation against me through my executive .now the management issue me a letter and through this letter management want to sign the one to one settle ment by me
Briefly I describe the charges that the management put in my letter
I am working as operator in department production and supervisor told me that u have to this work and the work is, long stainless steel are unloaded from truck and the supervisor told me that u have to carry this scarp simply I told that this not my duty and I could not doit then simply supervisor told me that so u go to ur working area
Another matter is anew production machinery line was inaugurated on 10 th jan 2017 so I visited with my some other friends to that line with taking permission from safety officer and issuing helmet from him and asking for reflective jacket he replied me that we have no jacket so u should go with helmet then we just entering that area and executive said that without reflective jacket no one is allowed here so leave that place without any hesitation and in my working area no production planning since last 4 month and all are moving with same without no permission so now the management is false ly blaming with this letter not only first time but also regularly harassed me by using diffrent methods so what should I do in this situation plz assist me and if possible plz draft alerted 4 me in reply bcoz sum of the legal word couldn't understand by me so I apply for same in odia as my mother language
From India, Bhubaneswar
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