Dear Team,
Seeking your inputs/ideas on the following: our organization had a few employees categorized as "Supervisors" who later formed a Trade Union. We advised them that, being supervisors, they cannot be termed as workmen. At a later point, they agreed that they are willing to sign a settlement under the workmen category. Therefore, an 18(1) was signed for them, designating them as Technicians.
When this settlement was signed, they were affiliated with a union, and now they are attempting to register with the labor officer by stating that they are a Staff union. To provide evidence, they submitted the appointment order, which indicates they were Supervisors.
The labor officer has requested the Union to obtain a bonafide letter from the management stating their current designation.
Is there any problem with this? Please suggest.
From India, Chidambaram
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Seeking your inputs/ideas on the following: our organization had a few employees categorized as "Supervisors" who later formed a Trade Union. We advised them that, being supervisors, they cannot be termed as workmen. At a later point, they agreed that they are willing to sign a settlement under the workmen category. Therefore, an 18(1) was signed for them, designating them as Technicians.
When this settlement was signed, they were affiliated with a union, and now they are attempting to register with the labor officer by stating that they are a Staff union. To provide evidence, they submitted the appointment order, which indicates they were Supervisors.
The labor officer has requested the Union to obtain a bonafide letter from the management stating their current designation.
Is there any problem with this? Please suggest.
From India, Chidambaram
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Seek your inputs/ideas on the below: our organization had a few employees categorized as "Supervisors" who later formed a Trade Union. We advised them that being supervisors, they cannot be termed as workmen.
Do their nature of the job is also a supervisory role or a workman role? Do they have rights to approve leaves for the fellow workmen, send on duty, etc.? If it is so, they will be considered as supervisors under the law. Otherwise, merely being designated as a supervisor doesn't term them as a supervisor and cannot exclude them from the ID act.
At a later point, they agreed that they are willing to sign a settlement under the workmen category; hence, an 18(1) was signed for them which designated them as Technicians.
If their nature of the job is a supervisory role, how can you make them sign the 18(1) settlement under the ID act? Supervisors cannot come under the purview of the ID act, right?
When this settlement was signed, they were under an affiliated union, and now they are trying to get registered with the labor officer, stating that they are a Staff union. For evidence, they had given the appointment order which says they were Supervisors.
The labor officer has asked the Union to get a bonafide letter from the management with their current designation.
Is there any problem in this? Please suggest.
I do not understand what the mess is around here! I don't think you have a good legal advisor who could lead you properly. Consult a good labor law practitioner and get his advice to get you out of this mess. We may not be able to advise you perfectly on this forum. Need to go through the full history.
Workmen can form a trade union. Allow only one trade union to be registered in your establishment. More than one trade union will again create huge issues in the plant. The majority of the workmen can join and form a union.
From India, Chennai
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153Do their nature of the job is also a supervisory role or a workman role? Do they have rights to approve leaves for the fellow workmen, send on duty, etc.? If it is so, they will be considered as supervisors under the law. Otherwise, merely being designated as a supervisor doesn't term them as a supervisor and cannot exclude them from the ID act.
At a later point, they agreed that they are willing to sign a settlement under the workmen category; hence, an 18(1) was signed for them which designated them as Technicians.
If their nature of the job is a supervisory role, how can you make them sign the 18(1) settlement under the ID act? Supervisors cannot come under the purview of the ID act, right?
When this settlement was signed, they were under an affiliated union, and now they are trying to get registered with the labor officer, stating that they are a Staff union. For evidence, they had given the appointment order which says they were Supervisors.
The labor officer has asked the Union to get a bonafide letter from the management with their current designation.
Is there any problem in this? Please suggest.
I do not understand what the mess is around here! I don't think you have a good legal advisor who could lead you properly. Consult a good labor law practitioner and get his advice to get you out of this mess. We may not be able to advise you perfectly on this forum. Need to go through the full history.
Workmen can form a trade union. Allow only one trade union to be registered in your establishment. More than one trade union will again create huge issues in the plant. The majority of the workmen can join and form a union.
From India, Chennai
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There is nothing illegal in forming a trade union of supervisors or officers. Section 2(g) of the Trade Union Act, 1926 defines workmen as "all persons employed" and as such there is no bar on Officers/ supervisors or even Managers to form a Trade Union. Only thing is that a union should have a common objective and the objective of the union formed by the officers should be for their benefits and that union will not be negotiating with the management for the demands put forward by the workers.
In Government Tool Room and Training Centres Supervisory and Officers’ Association, Bangalore Vs Asst. Labour Commissioner & Deputy Registrar of Trade Unions, Bangalore [(2002) 2 LLJ 339 (Kar)], it was held that any group of employees irrespective of whether they are ‘workmen’ under Industrial Disputes Act or not can be registered as a trade union under Trade Union Act.
Madhu.T.K
From India, Kannur
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In Government Tool Room and Training Centres Supervisory and Officers’ Association, Bangalore Vs Asst. Labour Commissioner & Deputy Registrar of Trade Unions, Bangalore [(2002) 2 LLJ 339 (Kar)], it was held that any group of employees irrespective of whether they are ‘workmen’ under Industrial Disputes Act or not can be registered as a trade union under Trade Union Act.
Madhu.T.K
From India, Kannur
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Dear Sir,
If you issue such a letter and later on there is any dispute wherein you have to take a stand that the concerned supervisor is not a workman under the Industrial Disputes Act, then this may go against you since you yourself have been admitting that he is a workman. If he is doing supervisory duties, then such a letter should not be issued.
From India, Pune
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If you issue such a letter and later on there is any dispute wherein you have to take a stand that the concerned supervisor is not a workman under the Industrial Disputes Act, then this may go against you since you yourself have been admitting that he is a workman. If he is doing supervisory duties, then such a letter should not be issued.
From India, Pune
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In my opinion, we should give replies to each query from the Labour Department. If you do not reply, the officer will make a decision based on the records available, and tomorrow you cannot object to it. Each letter from the Labour Officer is an opportunity for the employer to defend their views. Therefore, you should reply. Nothing will happen if you say that they are supervisors or persons having supervisory authority. By giving such a reply, you are in no way inviting troubles in the future.
Madhu.T.K
From India, Kannur
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Madhu.T.K
From India, Kannur
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Dear Abhinav,
Registration of a trade union under the Trade Unions Act, 1926 is the duty of the Registrar of Trade Unions, and the employer has no role in it. Perhaps, with reference to the name clause of the Supervisors' union proposed to be registered, the Registrar might have asked for such a letter to verify the fact whether the signatories to the application are supervisors actually employed in your industry. If you are willing, provide it based on the request of the union; otherwise, wait until you receive a letter officially from the officer concerned and reply to him directly. Regarding the issues connected with this thread, I fully endorse all the views of Mr. Madhu.
From India, Salem
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Registration of a trade union under the Trade Unions Act, 1926 is the duty of the Registrar of Trade Unions, and the employer has no role in it. Perhaps, with reference to the name clause of the Supervisors' union proposed to be registered, the Registrar might have asked for such a letter to verify the fact whether the signatories to the application are supervisors actually employed in your industry. If you are willing, provide it based on the request of the union; otherwise, wait until you receive a letter officially from the officer concerned and reply to him directly. Regarding the issues connected with this thread, I fully endorse all the views of Mr. Madhu.
From India, Salem
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Stephen, please post your query separately. Dont mix up here.
From India, Mumbai
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From India, Mumbai
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What Madhu has said is correct. I would like to add the following:
Are the supervisors who are designated actually performing supervisory work? Will the organization be able to establish this? If this is true, then they will not be able to seek redressal of their industrial dispute as the Industrial Disputes Act will not be applicable to them.
From India, Mumbai
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Are the supervisors who are designated actually performing supervisory work? Will the organization be able to establish this? If this is true, then they will not be able to seek redressal of their industrial dispute as the Industrial Disputes Act will not be applicable to them.
From India, Mumbai
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Prior to forming a union, they were designated as supervisors. After forming a union, the wage settlement was signed designating them as technicians (workmen). Now, they are establishing themselves as supervisors to the government bodies. However, their salary slip and wage settlement clearly state that they are technicians. So far, I have not received an official letter from the labor officer regarding this.
From India, Chidambaram
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From India, Chidambaram
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So what, dear Abhinav? It is the botheration of the Registrar of Trade Unions to see whether the name of the Union actually indicates the class of workmen likely to be its members as mentioned in its bylaws and also whether any departure from it could be a sufficient reason for rejecting registration on the ground of misrepresentation of fact.
I think that you refuse to take the cue from the second paragraph of Madhu's first reply because it is your considered opinion and strong expectation that Supervisors are not workmen and as such the union should not be registered at all. You, as the management, have definitely no say in such a matter.
From India, Salem
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I think that you refuse to take the cue from the second paragraph of Madhu's first reply because it is your considered opinion and strong expectation that Supervisors are not workmen and as such the union should not be registered at all. You, as the management, have definitely no say in such a matter.
From India, Salem
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