Dear Saikumar ji,
Once again with due respect to you, I wish to say that now there is no need to submit any return in physical form under ESI after introduction of online . Even the declaration form is being submitted online.
Under EPF also, with introduction of online, submission of various returns in physical forms are eliminated.
From India, Mumbai
2556Once again with due respect to you, I wish to say that now there is no need to submit any return in physical form under ESI after introduction of online . Even the declaration form is being submitted online.
Under EPF also, with introduction of online, submission of various returns in physical forms are eliminated.
From India, Mumbai
Dear Shri Keshav ji
I have gone through the ESIC circular.What the ESIC guidelines say is that washing allowance, if paid to defray special expenses on account of employment, will stand excluded.What I said in my post is that if washing allowance is paid by way of reimbursing expenses incurred by an employee, it will not rank for ESI contribution and if it is paid every month as part of salary universally to that particular class of employs as per terms of employment/settlment (irrespective of any procedure to claim it as reimbursement), it partakes the character of remuneration within the first part of the definition of wages and will, in my view, rank for contribution. In some establishments, it is the practice.This line of interpretation is in tune with ESIC own interpretation about conveyance allowance inspite of the fact that the definition clearly excludes travelling allowance and the synonimous conveyance allowance. This is also in tune with settled position in law on the scope of wages.
As regards P.F, I have given the details to Anjana(who started the discussion) for her knowledge with a rider that she should verify whether the physical submission of the returns is necessary due the on-line process as I am not dealing with procedural aspects of P.F or ESI. Mr.Manjunath, in the mean time thankfully clarified that the physical submissions of certain forms have been dispensed with due to on line process. Now, you have also confirmed.
Similarly,as regards ESI returns,I have given the details to Anjana for her academic interest and information as she is not dealing with ESI matters since she is working in a mine.Now it is nice that you have also clarified that physical submission of ESI returns is dispensed with.
All the same,. I am thankful to you for bringing this information to my notice.
B.Saikumar
Mumbai
From India, Mumbai
I have gone through the ESIC circular.What the ESIC guidelines say is that washing allowance, if paid to defray special expenses on account of employment, will stand excluded.What I said in my post is that if washing allowance is paid by way of reimbursing expenses incurred by an employee, it will not rank for ESI contribution and if it is paid every month as part of salary universally to that particular class of employs as per terms of employment/settlment (irrespective of any procedure to claim it as reimbursement), it partakes the character of remuneration within the first part of the definition of wages and will, in my view, rank for contribution. In some establishments, it is the practice.This line of interpretation is in tune with ESIC own interpretation about conveyance allowance inspite of the fact that the definition clearly excludes travelling allowance and the synonimous conveyance allowance. This is also in tune with settled position in law on the scope of wages.
As regards P.F, I have given the details to Anjana(who started the discussion) for her knowledge with a rider that she should verify whether the physical submission of the returns is necessary due the on-line process as I am not dealing with procedural aspects of P.F or ESI. Mr.Manjunath, in the mean time thankfully clarified that the physical submissions of certain forms have been dispensed with due to on line process. Now, you have also confirmed.
Similarly,as regards ESI returns,I have given the details to Anjana for her academic interest and information as she is not dealing with ESI matters since she is working in a mine.Now it is nice that you have also clarified that physical submission of ESI returns is dispensed with.
All the same,. I am thankful to you for bringing this information to my notice.
B.Saikumar
Mumbai
From India, Mumbai
Dear Saikumar ji,
I appreciate your reply to my postings.
According to my view, even the washing allowance is paid as a part of salary every month universally to all employees it does not rank for ESI contribution. However, the amount should be justifiable as to defray expense of washing the working cloths. Even to office staff also one can apply this logic.
I myself have convinced this view to the authorities.
One can differ with me.
From India, Mumbai
I appreciate your reply to my postings.
According to my view, even the washing allowance is paid as a part of salary every month universally to all employees it does not rank for ESI contribution. However, the amount should be justifiable as to defray expense of washing the working cloths. Even to office staff also one can apply this logic.
I myself have convinced this view to the authorities.
One can differ with me.
From India, Mumbai
Dear Keshav ji
I am with you so long as the washing allowance is paid to defray the expenses.In my view, it partakes the character of remuneration within the first part of the definition when it is paid as part of salary every month to every employee concerned under the terms of employment.otherwise, the conveyance allowance shall also be excluded in variably. However, by the ESIC's own interpretation, the conveyance allowance, if not paid to reimburse the expenses,shall rank for contribution.It is also laid down by the courts that it is not the name that is given to any payment that shall include or exclude it from wages but the manner in which they are paid that will be determinative. Any how, we are entitled to our opnions and we may respectfully disagree also.Two views are always possible in law. and in such circumstances, I prefer to err on the side of law.
Thanks or your response.
B.Saikumar
HR & labour Law Advisor
Mumbai
From India, Mumbai
I am with you so long as the washing allowance is paid to defray the expenses.In my view, it partakes the character of remuneration within the first part of the definition when it is paid as part of salary every month to every employee concerned under the terms of employment.otherwise, the conveyance allowance shall also be excluded in variably. However, by the ESIC's own interpretation, the conveyance allowance, if not paid to reimburse the expenses,shall rank for contribution.It is also laid down by the courts that it is not the name that is given to any payment that shall include or exclude it from wages but the manner in which they are paid that will be determinative. Any how, we are entitled to our opnions and we may respectfully disagree also.Two views are always possible in law. and in such circumstances, I prefer to err on the side of law.
Thanks or your response.
B.Saikumar
HR & labour Law Advisor
Mumbai
From India, Mumbai
Dear Saikumar ji,
I am also with your interpretation and logic visa-vis to conveyance.
I appreciate your contributions in this forum. Our knowledge we have to enhance by this way only i.e. by sharing, agreeing, disagreeing and debating.
Incidentally we both are from Mumbai. We can have personal contact to share the knowledge. My contact numbers are 9820116383 / 9967516383 and I operate from Ghatkopar.
From India, Mumbai
I am also with your interpretation and logic visa-vis to conveyance.
I appreciate your contributions in this forum. Our knowledge we have to enhance by this way only i.e. by sharing, agreeing, disagreeing and debating.
Incidentally we both are from Mumbai. We can have personal contact to share the knowledge. My contact numbers are 9820116383 / 9967516383 and I operate from Ghatkopar.
From India, Mumbai
Dear Keshav I appreciate with u r reply but can u tell me where i can get the demo version to learn more about e-entry for ESIC.
From India, Bhubaneswar
From India, Bhubaneswar
Can anyone explain.
1. If an employee is having a basic salary of 10000 and he doesn't want to deduct his PF but the employer says we will deduct the amount of PF whether it is possible or not.
2. If an employee is having a basic salary of 10000 and employee wants to deduct his PF but employer don't. Is it possible.
From India, Bhubaneswar
1. If an employee is having a basic salary of 10000 and he doesn't want to deduct his PF but the employer says we will deduct the amount of PF whether it is possible or not.
2. If an employee is having a basic salary of 10000 and employee wants to deduct his PF but employer don't. Is it possible.
From India, Bhubaneswar
Dear Anjanatanay,
The current thread in which the query posted by you on PF is on the subject : ESI- whether it is calculated on basic or gross? Your query is posted in wrong subject / thread. You are therefore requested to post your query in fresh subject / thread. You will definitely get response.
To post your query, go to 'Post a Query' in Home. Then choose a single appropriate category for your post- i.e. 'Employee Compensation & Benefits' and then go to 'Start Discussion Here'.
From India, Mumbai
The current thread in which the query posted by you on PF is on the subject : ESI- whether it is calculated on basic or gross? Your query is posted in wrong subject / thread. You are therefore requested to post your query in fresh subject / thread. You will definitely get response.
To post your query, go to 'Post a Query' in Home. Then choose a single appropriate category for your post- i.e. 'Employee Compensation & Benefits' and then go to 'Start Discussion Here'.
From India, Mumbai
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ESI contribution rates lowering.pdf