Dear Balaji,
Please calm down and read the story just above your post. Many times or an employee is been told the highlights of the company and not the hardship he will be following Like the transport problem, or too much work load or expectation. if you think that on probation a company is at its will to terminate an employee on any misconduct whether grave or small one you are mistaking my friend. the Hon'ble Supreme Court of India laid down rulings saying that even if you want to terminate any probationer on ground of misconduct you will have to conduct an enquiry. the Supreme Court Direction is also the Law of Land so there will be a breach of law if you terminate an employee this way.
this was the Legal aspect of the problem. other part is i agree to most of the people there could be any situation with the employee. Even if there is any misunderstsnding please try to take feedback from the employee and try to solve his problem. you will not only gain the respect the employee but also motivate him to give his best for the company. we should think in a positive way.
From India, New Delhi
314Please calm down and read the story just above your post. Many times or an employee is been told the highlights of the company and not the hardship he will be following Like the transport problem, or too much work load or expectation. if you think that on probation a company is at its will to terminate an employee on any misconduct whether grave or small one you are mistaking my friend. the Hon'ble Supreme Court of India laid down rulings saying that even if you want to terminate any probationer on ground of misconduct you will have to conduct an enquiry. the Supreme Court Direction is also the Law of Land so there will be a breach of law if you terminate an employee this way.
this was the Legal aspect of the problem. other part is i agree to most of the people there could be any situation with the employee. Even if there is any misunderstsnding please try to take feedback from the employee and try to solve his problem. you will not only gain the respect the employee but also motivate him to give his best for the company. we should think in a positive way.
From India, New Delhi
Hi,
Let me quote a relevant case here. One of the IT company (my friend is HR head there) similar case happened. After attending two-day induction program, a Software Engineer did not turn up from the third day. He was completed all joining formalities including issuance of appointment letter and its acceptance. He also signed a service agreement to serve the company for two years. My friend succeeded to contact him over phone and to his surprise the following were the reason of his discontinuation:
(1) The JD discussed by HR at the time of recruitment was not matching with that JD discussed/given by his HoD upon joining.
(2) There was a mismatch with the position offered and that of the hierarchy conveyed in the deptt.
(3) Perception developed during induction about the culture of the organization (the reason quoted was that during the introduction, one of the employee did not bother either to look into him or wish him)
There was nothing much my friend could do to retain the person. He felt no need to send any warning letter / termination letter etc., as one of the clauses in the appointment letter on automatic termination of services in case of continuous absenteeism for 7 days and above, addressed the same. My friend took the feed back in a positive manner and made necessary process in place to improve the gray areas to prevent employee churn on such grounds in future.
You may also try to find out the reason for his churn and take corrective measures. "Prevention is better than cure."
Contribute as a "Change Agent" and bring changes in the organization culture, if need be.
All the best,
From India, Jaipur
Let me quote a relevant case here. One of the IT company (my friend is HR head there) similar case happened. After attending two-day induction program, a Software Engineer did not turn up from the third day. He was completed all joining formalities including issuance of appointment letter and its acceptance. He also signed a service agreement to serve the company for two years. My friend succeeded to contact him over phone and to his surprise the following were the reason of his discontinuation:
(1) The JD discussed by HR at the time of recruitment was not matching with that JD discussed/given by his HoD upon joining.
(2) There was a mismatch with the position offered and that of the hierarchy conveyed in the deptt.
(3) Perception developed during induction about the culture of the organization (the reason quoted was that during the introduction, one of the employee did not bother either to look into him or wish him)
There was nothing much my friend could do to retain the person. He felt no need to send any warning letter / termination letter etc., as one of the clauses in the appointment letter on automatic termination of services in case of continuous absenteeism for 7 days and above, addressed the same. My friend took the feed back in a positive manner and made necessary process in place to improve the gray areas to prevent employee churn on such grounds in future.
You may also try to find out the reason for his churn and take corrective measures. "Prevention is better than cure."
Contribute as a "Change Agent" and bring changes in the organization culture, if need be.
All the best,
From India, Jaipur
- I fully agree and endorse views expressed by Mr. V Balaji.
- In short what Mr. Balaji suggesting is, there is no need to issue show cause to employee who has worked only for a day and is absconding without giving any intimation or reason from the very second day of his joining the new employment. So keep aside the procedure no need to call for reason and explanation from absconding employee, simply treat his/her case as someone who never joined your company. Mr. Balaji has also added that, in case employee turns up after few days with some genuine reason for absconding, you may consider his/her rejoining on merits.
- I agree with the views of other citehr members that one needs to find out internal and external reasons for such behavior by new joinees and corrective action need to be taken. But that dose not mean that you need to send show cause to such employees. Your show cause is not going to get any reply and it is sheer waste.
- I do not find any negative attitude in the suggestions of Mr. Balaji. His attitude appears to be very proactive to me.
- Mark my words, a person who is absconding from the very second day of his/her joining without any reason is already having employment offer/s from other employer/s and has jumped to another company and he/she has no commitment, ethics or a heart to inform you about his decision. So simply ignore him/her.
From India, Pune
Dear VK,
Both Balaji and you seem to be advising to adopt shortcuts to a person, who has sought a sincere advice from community members, so that he may not be wrong in taking any action as a part of his duty. But the advice of both Balaji and you clearly seem to forbidding him from discharging his genuine duties as an HR personnel.
I am not at all surprised with your presumption also, "Mark my words, a person who is absconding from the very second day of his/her joining without any reason is already having employment offer/s from other employer/s and has jumped to another company and he/she has no commitment, ethics or a heart to inform you about his decision." without resorting to any investigation or trying to know the full background of the case, as many people prefer to do work on presumption basis rather than observing any laid down processes, formalities and HR ethics.
Your another advice "so simply ignore him/her" is also like advising the poster of the question to shirk from his genuine duties.
As an HR personnel, your firm conviction like presumption is totally uncalled for in view of the fact that neither the poster of the question has stated that the absentee has joined another post, nor he has mentioned that there is any clause of termination in the appointment letter or the agreement with the absentee employee.
It is a matter of commonsense, if a formality of recruitment has been done by the organization, it also is obliged to complete necessary formalities for the discharge of the employee taking all necessary steps to terminate, remove or dismiss from the organization only by observing due formal processes laid down by the organization. OTHERWISE, THE EMPLOYEE WOULD STILL REMAIN ON ROLLS OF THE ORGANIZATION AND CAN PUT FORWARD HIS CLAIM ANY TIME IF NO FORMAL ACTION IS TAKEN TO REMOVE HIM BY OBSERVING DUE PROCESS.
So, if you prefer to adopt shortcuts or presumptions in doing your duty, at least don't advise others not to observe due policies and formalities of HR.
From India, Delhi
Both Balaji and you seem to be advising to adopt shortcuts to a person, who has sought a sincere advice from community members, so that he may not be wrong in taking any action as a part of his duty. But the advice of both Balaji and you clearly seem to forbidding him from discharging his genuine duties as an HR personnel.
I am not at all surprised with your presumption also, "Mark my words, a person who is absconding from the very second day of his/her joining without any reason is already having employment offer/s from other employer/s and has jumped to another company and he/she has no commitment, ethics or a heart to inform you about his decision." without resorting to any investigation or trying to know the full background of the case, as many people prefer to do work on presumption basis rather than observing any laid down processes, formalities and HR ethics.
Your another advice "so simply ignore him/her" is also like advising the poster of the question to shirk from his genuine duties.
As an HR personnel, your firm conviction like presumption is totally uncalled for in view of the fact that neither the poster of the question has stated that the absentee has joined another post, nor he has mentioned that there is any clause of termination in the appointment letter or the agreement with the absentee employee.
It is a matter of commonsense, if a formality of recruitment has been done by the organization, it also is obliged to complete necessary formalities for the discharge of the employee taking all necessary steps to terminate, remove or dismiss from the organization only by observing due formal processes laid down by the organization. OTHERWISE, THE EMPLOYEE WOULD STILL REMAIN ON ROLLS OF THE ORGANIZATION AND CAN PUT FORWARD HIS CLAIM ANY TIME IF NO FORMAL ACTION IS TAKEN TO REMOVE HIM BY OBSERVING DUE PROCESS.
So, if you prefer to adopt shortcuts or presumptions in doing your duty, at least don't advise others not to observe due policies and formalities of HR.
From India, Delhi
Dear Mr. Dhingra,
Let's see the case carefully. The question was "what to do with the absonding employee on the second day?". What I am suggesting is that there is no need to do anything big, like issuing show cause notice, conducting domestic enquiry and terminating him.
All these formalities apply only when someone works for the organization and also the organization intends to initiate disciplinary proceedings. What do we suggest here? Do we think that a person was present for only a day, can go for conciliation proceedings what is his locus standi? If at all he goes, what is company's stance? In what section of ID Act he can invoke? (2A cannot be invoked as company did not discharge/dismiss him) it is not that company terminated him or wanting to terminate, but it is he the one absconding the next day.
Finding reason for his disinterest, etc. are totally internal issues that can be addressed always. I knew some people joined in the morning and went for lunch and never turned back thereafter. People normally come with preconceived notiions, big organization set up, expectations, etc. Once they joined the organization, things appear to be different than what they perceived. When things do not seem to be in their taste, they simply vanish without telling the employer. This is exactly what has happened in this case.
If you suggest to initiate disciplinary proceedings for those who had shown their faces for 2 hrs, 1/2 day and one day and sincerely adopt the procedures to be followed as per the law, I have no problem in your spending time on this.
V. Balaji
From India, Madras
Let's see the case carefully. The question was "what to do with the absonding employee on the second day?". What I am suggesting is that there is no need to do anything big, like issuing show cause notice, conducting domestic enquiry and terminating him.
All these formalities apply only when someone works for the organization and also the organization intends to initiate disciplinary proceedings. What do we suggest here? Do we think that a person was present for only a day, can go for conciliation proceedings what is his locus standi? If at all he goes, what is company's stance? In what section of ID Act he can invoke? (2A cannot be invoked as company did not discharge/dismiss him) it is not that company terminated him or wanting to terminate, but it is he the one absconding the next day.
Finding reason for his disinterest, etc. are totally internal issues that can be addressed always. I knew some people joined in the morning and went for lunch and never turned back thereafter. People normally come with preconceived notiions, big organization set up, expectations, etc. Once they joined the organization, things appear to be different than what they perceived. When things do not seem to be in their taste, they simply vanish without telling the employer. This is exactly what has happened in this case.
If you suggest to initiate disciplinary proceedings for those who had shown their faces for 2 hrs, 1/2 day and one day and sincerely adopt the procedures to be followed as per the law, I have no problem in your spending time on this.
V. Balaji
From India, Madras
well, even we have faced the instances where employee has absconded after even 1 or 2 days of work...
in such situation, we only tried to contact the person on phone, if he answers then we tried n ask for the reason. if found genuine he is asked to come after sometime, if not then on the phn only we used to tell him that as per his appointment letter absenting from duty without information is misconduct n if he is not willing to come back n join then witin 3 days a termination letter is sent to his place mentioning the conversation n espectially that he said he is nt willing to come back
if person doesnt answer even the calls & mails then after a week a show cause letter is sent and if unanswered after 10th day termination letter is sent to him stating that despite various efforts to contact from our side have failed n the person has been absenting without information so he is being terminated.
after 5 days or so we start searching a new person becoz normally one who hasnt turned out in 5-7 days will not come
From India, Chandigarh
in such situation, we only tried to contact the person on phone, if he answers then we tried n ask for the reason. if found genuine he is asked to come after sometime, if not then on the phn only we used to tell him that as per his appointment letter absenting from duty without information is misconduct n if he is not willing to come back n join then witin 3 days a termination letter is sent to his place mentioning the conversation n espectially that he said he is nt willing to come back
if person doesnt answer even the calls & mails then after a week a show cause letter is sent and if unanswered after 10th day termination letter is sent to him stating that despite various efforts to contact from our side have failed n the person has been absenting without information so he is being terminated.
after 5 days or so we start searching a new person becoz normally one who hasnt turned out in 5-7 days will not come
From India, Chandigarh
if the employee absconding from job for a two days, he should not be terminated, best hr practices say that management should first recognise the problem than take a further step.
From India, Pune
From India, Pune
Dear gsk42,
Please read thread carefully, understand the subject and post your comments. Here discussion is about a employee who is absconding from the 2nd day of joining new job and not about employee absconding for 2 days.
From India, Pune
Please read thread carefully, understand the subject and post your comments. Here discussion is about a employee who is absconding from the 2nd day of joining new job and not about employee absconding for 2 days.
From India, Pune
Dear Mr. Dhingra,
From India, Pune
- Myself and Mr. Balaji have offered a solution to a common problem faced by many of us from HR fraternity. I am facing this situation for almost 2 times every month and I am sure there are many others who are facing it at even higher frequency. Solution offered by Mr. Balaji is practiced by me and I have not faced any problem so far, as feared by you.
- You are at liberty to label our practice as a ‘shortcut’ but I feel it is a practical solution tried and tested by me.
- We are not forbidding anybody from discharging their duties. We have given a advice and you and some others have also given a advice. It is upto the advice seeker to carefully choose from the many alternatives available keeping in view the actual reality and situation, best known to him/her.
- I am not presuming anything. But I do not understand what makes you presume that a person who has joined just a day before dares to abscond from the new job on a very second day and who is not bothered to inform anyone in office, has a intention and seriousness to continue to work with you?
- My commonsense will never allow someone to remain on rolls, who has joined and absconded from 2nd day, as feared by you. I think most organizations have a very basic function of Attendance & Time Office in place.
From India, Pune
Dear Neha,
I am surprised that HR people get this much time to spend on a new person, whose trustworthiness towards the organization or continuity is under a big question mark! You should do a PONC to find out the cost implication on the organization on such issues. In the modern HR context, Personnel Management has a limited role to play.
I am 100% in agreement with what V. Balaji commented in third para, above. In my view, if there is no positive results on the initial probing, one should not spend much time on such non productive activities.
Mr. Dhingra, in response to the last para (highlighted in Red) of your reply to V. Balaji, I would suggest that if you could quote any relevant rulings of any learned court in India, ordering for reinstatement of an employee whose services were terminated on similar ground under the subject matter in discussion.
Thanks!
From India, Jaipur
I am surprised that HR people get this much time to spend on a new person, whose trustworthiness towards the organization or continuity is under a big question mark! You should do a PONC to find out the cost implication on the organization on such issues. In the modern HR context, Personnel Management has a limited role to play.
I am 100% in agreement with what V. Balaji commented in third para, above. In my view, if there is no positive results on the initial probing, one should not spend much time on such non productive activities.
Mr. Dhingra, in response to the last para (highlighted in Red) of your reply to V. Balaji, I would suggest that if you could quote any relevant rulings of any learned court in India, ordering for reinstatement of an employee whose services were terminated on similar ground under the subject matter in discussion.
Thanks!
From India, Jaipur
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