Hello Everyone,
The main reasons I had suggested some sort of 'automated' solution/mechanism to VET the postings--MIND YOU NOT FILTER--are as below:
1] The point that (Cite Contribution) raised--'...........There are leaders in this community, who would not have been, within our reach.......'. I think the point she was trying to make was this: it isn't right to waste the time of such people whose time is more valuable than many others'--since that's what happens when anyone tries to read such incomprehensible postings & further still tries to understand it's meaning, just because he/she wants to contribute to this Forum. That's unfair.
When such a vetting device is in place, such situations are minimized to the maximum--even if not 100% ruled-out.
2] The point that Archna raised--'........does not mean that a person with a Hindi medium background......'. Though she referred to non-English medium persons, I think many English medium educated persons can be put into the same slot--no pun intended pl--thanks to the varying standards of education across the country. I am sometimes surprised & I think Sriram could be wrong here.
This is where such a mechanism will help both the other members of the Forum [in terms of better English presentation] AND such persons too who want to benefit from this Forum. This would give those with poor English skills to improve themselves--without a special effort on that front, since their Postings would not be accepted until they type in correctly. A sort of fringe Benefit--albeit, I think, a very important one in the long run--of this mechanism.
To explain this, let's take the case of admission to IIMs & other MBA colleges. If one wants to get admitted into any IIM, would he/she not strive to RAISE TO THAT LEVEL? The same goes to this mechanism--it maintains the standards of the Forum & at the same time aids/assists those who aren't of the same standard to participate in this Forum.
3] This is where (Cite Contribution)'s other point comes into picture--'Absence of intent to put an effort'. If a person wants to participate in this Forum seriously, instead of frivolously as seems to be the case for many now-a-days, then they better put in the extra effort. It's basically RAISING THEIR STANDARDS THAN ASKING/EXPECTING OTHERS TO LOWER THEIR STANDARDS in which the Forum is ready to extend a helping hand. It's upto the individual concerned to decide if that extra effort is worth it--in terms of the knowledge gained & shared.
The primary motive of CiteHR has, as I see it, always been to reach-out to the max number of HR professionals thru the means of sharing experiences & knowledge-base, rather than a club sort of thing for HR persons. I think this Objective would not only be guarded but enhanced in the long-run by adopting such measures. I already see a lot of other nationals participating in this Forum.
Any bouquets or brickbats?
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
1637The main reasons I had suggested some sort of 'automated' solution/mechanism to VET the postings--MIND YOU NOT FILTER--are as below:
1] The point that (Cite Contribution) raised--'...........There are leaders in this community, who would not have been, within our reach.......'. I think the point she was trying to make was this: it isn't right to waste the time of such people whose time is more valuable than many others'--since that's what happens when anyone tries to read such incomprehensible postings & further still tries to understand it's meaning, just because he/she wants to contribute to this Forum. That's unfair.
When such a vetting device is in place, such situations are minimized to the maximum--even if not 100% ruled-out.
2] The point that Archna raised--'........does not mean that a person with a Hindi medium background......'. Though she referred to non-English medium persons, I think many English medium educated persons can be put into the same slot--no pun intended pl--thanks to the varying standards of education across the country. I am sometimes surprised & I think Sriram could be wrong here.
This is where such a mechanism will help both the other members of the Forum [in terms of better English presentation] AND such persons too who want to benefit from this Forum. This would give those with poor English skills to improve themselves--without a special effort on that front, since their Postings would not be accepted until they type in correctly. A sort of fringe Benefit--albeit, I think, a very important one in the long run--of this mechanism.
To explain this, let's take the case of admission to IIMs & other MBA colleges. If one wants to get admitted into any IIM, would he/she not strive to RAISE TO THAT LEVEL? The same goes to this mechanism--it maintains the standards of the Forum & at the same time aids/assists those who aren't of the same standard to participate in this Forum.
3] This is where (Cite Contribution)'s other point comes into picture--'Absence of intent to put an effort'. If a person wants to participate in this Forum seriously, instead of frivolously as seems to be the case for many now-a-days, then they better put in the extra effort. It's basically RAISING THEIR STANDARDS THAN ASKING/EXPECTING OTHERS TO LOWER THEIR STANDARDS in which the Forum is ready to extend a helping hand. It's upto the individual concerned to decide if that extra effort is worth it--in terms of the knowledge gained & shared.
The primary motive of CiteHR has, as I see it, always been to reach-out to the max number of HR professionals thru the means of sharing experiences & knowledge-base, rather than a club sort of thing for HR persons. I think this Objective would not only be guarded but enhanced in the long-run by adopting such measures. I already see a lot of other nationals participating in this Forum.
Any bouquets or brickbats?
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
Thank you all for this interesting discussion. I would like to add what I think of this issue and why we are trying to take alternative routes to help our senior members spend more quality time here.
Firstly, I agree with Archna - our country is full of people who are not proficient in English. By what we see - people are still unable to read and understand general website guidelines - they would send in their queries from the "contact us" form. We receive about 100-200 such misguided queries every day. Even in the urban population - proficiency in written English is very low.
I think pointing out these English errors is important but it needs to be done politely so that they are taken constructively. To many... this harping to be "polite" may seem repetitive - but its very important in a text-only medium and specially coming from senior members it will portray our [citehr's] overall demeanor towards members. Please remember anything you write will be read over and over again and people will form an opinion about our network by what they read and how they see other people being treated.
Now, let me try to explain what we have done to improve the quality of the time spent by our senior members over here.
Improvements Made
1. Recommendations: This works as a collective filter - if you reply on any thread and someone if following you - they get notified through the recommendations tab. This way if you follow all the other seniors you will know what they think of as important queries and you can read and participate in them.
2. Improved and highlighted research feature to help reduce repetitive queries.
3. Closing of all threads older than 1 year. Earlier if anyone would reply to any old thread - even with a simple "Thank You" - the thread would show up on the recent threads section. By closing these old threads this has stopped.
4. Better flow in the interface to help users post their threads in the correct section. Although it hasn't stopped people from posting in the wrong sections but it has reduced the occurrence.
5. Help groups have been created for news users and are highlighted with a notification when they first log in.
Features in the near future
1. Notifications area on the home page to inform people instantaneously about replies in the threads, discussions they are participating in - this will help improve the number of quality discussions.
2. Addition of a "accredit" system for posts to help identify the best posts in a thread. This will also help in identifying the most authentic posts - accredited by other members.
Finally, to acknowledge tajsateesh's idea - adding a stringent system which will not allow people to post if there are spelling or grammatical errors will cause more confusion among people - many of whom would probably not even be aware of how to correct the sentences. Also, it'll be one more deterrence in the posting process - which we would like to avoid and look for alternative ways to improve the topic selection for our members.
I would suggest that we try to point out the English grammar or spelling mistakes in a non-emotional and direct way - just so that we are consistent and constructive. We can even mention our concern by saying - "Proper language is important for professional growth." or something like that.
Regards,
Sid [CHR]
From India, Gurgaon
Firstly, I agree with Archna - our country is full of people who are not proficient in English. By what we see - people are still unable to read and understand general website guidelines - they would send in their queries from the "contact us" form. We receive about 100-200 such misguided queries every day. Even in the urban population - proficiency in written English is very low.
I think pointing out these English errors is important but it needs to be done politely so that they are taken constructively. To many... this harping to be "polite" may seem repetitive - but its very important in a text-only medium and specially coming from senior members it will portray our [citehr's] overall demeanor towards members. Please remember anything you write will be read over and over again and people will form an opinion about our network by what they read and how they see other people being treated.
Now, let me try to explain what we have done to improve the quality of the time spent by our senior members over here.
Improvements Made
1. Recommendations: This works as a collective filter - if you reply on any thread and someone if following you - they get notified through the recommendations tab. This way if you follow all the other seniors you will know what they think of as important queries and you can read and participate in them.
2. Improved and highlighted research feature to help reduce repetitive queries.
3. Closing of all threads older than 1 year. Earlier if anyone would reply to any old thread - even with a simple "Thank You" - the thread would show up on the recent threads section. By closing these old threads this has stopped.
4. Better flow in the interface to help users post their threads in the correct section. Although it hasn't stopped people from posting in the wrong sections but it has reduced the occurrence.
5. Help groups have been created for news users and are highlighted with a notification when they first log in.
Features in the near future
1. Notifications area on the home page to inform people instantaneously about replies in the threads, discussions they are participating in - this will help improve the number of quality discussions.
2. Addition of a "accredit" system for posts to help identify the best posts in a thread. This will also help in identifying the most authentic posts - accredited by other members.
Finally, to acknowledge tajsateesh's idea - adding a stringent system which will not allow people to post if there are spelling or grammatical errors will cause more confusion among people - many of whom would probably not even be aware of how to correct the sentences. Also, it'll be one more deterrence in the posting process - which we would like to avoid and look for alternative ways to improve the topic selection for our members.
I would suggest that we try to point out the English grammar or spelling mistakes in a non-emotional and direct way - just so that we are consistent and constructive. We can even mention our concern by saying - "Proper language is important for professional growth." or something like that.
Regards,
Sid [CHR]
From India, Gurgaon
Hello Sid,
It's nice to see the actions that have been taken & planned to be taken.
Reg your suggestion about messages like "Proper language is important for professional growth." or something like that to handle the spelling/grammatical errors: it's a good idea.
Or it could also be something like: 'if you want an early response to your thread, pl ensure your posting is grammatically right' or a similar line. This would take the message more closer to the individual posting the thread, rather than being 'impersonal'. Just give it a thought.
But I only hope [seriously] that our co-professionals don't give such guidance messages the same/similar importance smokers give to the message ;smoking kills you' on the cigarette packs.
Let's give it a shot--to be optimistic. Let's cross the bridge when it comes--in case such messages too don't improve the situation.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
It's nice to see the actions that have been taken & planned to be taken.
Reg your suggestion about messages like "Proper language is important for professional growth." or something like that to handle the spelling/grammatical errors: it's a good idea.
Or it could also be something like: 'if you want an early response to your thread, pl ensure your posting is grammatically right' or a similar line. This would take the message more closer to the individual posting the thread, rather than being 'impersonal'. Just give it a thought.
But I only hope [seriously] that our co-professionals don't give such guidance messages the same/similar importance smokers give to the message ;smoking kills you' on the cigarette packs.
Let's give it a shot--to be optimistic. Let's cross the bridge when it comes--in case such messages too don't improve the situation.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
Let us have the optimistic approach Mr. Sateesh, surely as like MS Word package if read underline for spelling mistakes and green line for Sentence mistake appears another 30 to 35% population will make use of it.
But due to grammatical Mistakes some important attachment what we are receiving in this Forum should not be blocked. Auto-correct option must be made available in threads for such silly spelling and grammatical mistakes.
One fine day we can achieve 100% accuracy in posts.
With warm regards
S. Bhaskar
9099024667
From India, Kumbakonam
But due to grammatical Mistakes some important attachment what we are receiving in this Forum should not be blocked. Auto-correct option must be made available in threads for such silly spelling and grammatical mistakes.
One fine day we can achieve 100% accuracy in posts.
With warm regards
S. Bhaskar
9099024667
From India, Kumbakonam
Hello S. Bhaskar,
I agree with you.
Looks like you seem to have got the impression that I am not optimistic.
All I follow is this quote always: Work for the Best, but prepare for the worst. That way we don't end up getting disappointed & demoralized in a worst-case-scenario. It also helps our response times & reflexes to be pretty fast in such situations, if & when they come. This may sound philosophical, but by experience, I also know it's practical & realistic.
After all: the optimists invented the airplane & pessimists invented the parachute :-)
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
I agree with you.
Looks like you seem to have got the impression that I am not optimistic.
All I follow is this quote always: Work for the Best, but prepare for the worst. That way we don't end up getting disappointed & demoralized in a worst-case-scenario. It also helps our response times & reflexes to be pretty fast in such situations, if & when they come. This may sound philosophical, but by experience, I also know it's practical & realistic.
After all: the optimists invented the airplane & pessimists invented the parachute :-)
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
Hello Everyone
My greetings to you all.
First let me appreciate the initiative taken by our member Sriram Warrier as well as the other members for sharing their intellectual thoughts.
I am delighted to share my humble thoughts on this very interesting post.
Let me share with you some basics about writing skills.
Effective written communication relies on correct grammar and spelling.
Correct grammar and spelling makes a positive impression on readers, which is particularly important in business and academic communications.
Everyone makes the occasional grammar or spelling mistake. But if we make them frequently enough in our writing, our credibility goes way down.
Readers often do not notice good grammar because the text is easily understood and enjoyable to read.
But readers do notice confusing grammatical errors that force them to re-read text and fumble for the author’s meaning.
While automated spell-checkers catch many spelling mistakes, they cannot catch many errors in usage.
For an example, writing “affect” for “effect” would be incorrect usage, but a spell-checker may miss the error because the word is spelled correctly.
Technology has the limitation as it can not empathize the feeling of the author.
We have transcended from Shakespeare’s era to Google era,resuting a classical dilution.
Let us accept the reality and become a solution-finder to a solution-seeker.
Somewhere I have read an adage that says:
“The impact of the messanger is always greater than the mere message.”
Best wishes to all participants of this meaningful post.
Happy posting.
Regards
AVS
************************************************** *
From India, Madras
My greetings to you all.
First let me appreciate the initiative taken by our member Sriram Warrier as well as the other members for sharing their intellectual thoughts.
I am delighted to share my humble thoughts on this very interesting post.
Let me share with you some basics about writing skills.
Effective written communication relies on correct grammar and spelling.
Correct grammar and spelling makes a positive impression on readers, which is particularly important in business and academic communications.
Everyone makes the occasional grammar or spelling mistake. But if we make them frequently enough in our writing, our credibility goes way down.
Readers often do not notice good grammar because the text is easily understood and enjoyable to read.
But readers do notice confusing grammatical errors that force them to re-read text and fumble for the author’s meaning.
While automated spell-checkers catch many spelling mistakes, they cannot catch many errors in usage.
For an example, writing “affect” for “effect” would be incorrect usage, but a spell-checker may miss the error because the word is spelled correctly.
Technology has the limitation as it can not empathize the feeling of the author.
We have transcended from Shakespeare’s era to Google era,resuting a classical dilution.
Let us accept the reality and become a solution-finder to a solution-seeker.
Somewhere I have read an adage that says:
“The impact of the messanger is always greater than the mere message.”
Best wishes to all participants of this meaningful post.
Happy posting.
Regards
AVS
************************************************** *
From India, Madras
Dear Mr. Sateesh,
I am not intended to say against anyone's view. I only conveyed my mere feeling.
I really seek apology if my words hurts you. If the Users are avoiding SMS and Chat Language then 40% and in this website Spell check and sentence auto correction facility made available then another 35% mistakes can come down. Then left out 25 to 30% can be rectified only by proper education (will our education System help us) and experience.
Once upon a time English was knowledge but in present scenario English is only a language and it not at all a knowledge.
Hope this site as knowledge sharing media and not language sharing media.
Further I reiterate here my intention of writing is to explain my view only and not to hurt anyone's personal feelings.
With warm regards
S. Bhaskar
9099024667
From India, Kumbakonam
I am not intended to say against anyone's view. I only conveyed my mere feeling.
I really seek apology if my words hurts you. If the Users are avoiding SMS and Chat Language then 40% and in this website Spell check and sentence auto correction facility made available then another 35% mistakes can come down. Then left out 25 to 30% can be rectified only by proper education (will our education System help us) and experience.
Once upon a time English was knowledge but in present scenario English is only a language and it not at all a knowledge.
Hope this site as knowledge sharing media and not language sharing media.
Further I reiterate here my intention of writing is to explain my view only and not to hurt anyone's personal feelings.
With warm regards
S. Bhaskar
9099024667
From India, Kumbakonam
Dear Members,
Appreciate the comments / posts from Mr. AVS. I strongly feel, his words were mere reflections of what other member felt at heart and wanted to say / listen to.
Seems we don't have a clear cut solution in hand now on how to go about this issue, lets stop crying over the spilled milk and think of a solution / action which will minimize the errors and facilitate better / effective information flow.
Taking a cue from Mr. Bhaskar's 40 : 35 : 25 % rule, why don we jointly try to enhance the language skills of our members. We can plan to initiate posting on General Grammar, Writing Skills , Communication Etiquette etc. Try and involve members to contribute to the threads by interactive postings and discussions.
Hope it will bring in some sense of accountability in the minds of members to contribute without errors / mistakes.
From India, Mumbai
Appreciate the comments / posts from Mr. AVS. I strongly feel, his words were mere reflections of what other member felt at heart and wanted to say / listen to.
Seems we don't have a clear cut solution in hand now on how to go about this issue, lets stop crying over the spilled milk and think of a solution / action which will minimize the errors and facilitate better / effective information flow.
Taking a cue from Mr. Bhaskar's 40 : 35 : 25 % rule, why don we jointly try to enhance the language skills of our members. We can plan to initiate posting on General Grammar, Writing Skills , Communication Etiquette etc. Try and involve members to contribute to the threads by interactive postings and discussions.
Hope it will bring in some sense of accountability in the minds of members to contribute without errors / mistakes.
From India, Mumbai
Hello S. Bhaskar,
Forget it.
One of the main positive aspects of this Forum is 'to agree to disagree'--unlike many other HR portals/forums. There's no question of feeling bad or hurt. Let's reserve/leave that part to the politicians :-)
Coming to Sriram's new suggestion, looks good & doable.
Let's get going.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
Forget it.
One of the main positive aspects of this Forum is 'to agree to disagree'--unlike many other HR portals/forums. There's no question of feeling bad or hurt. Let's reserve/leave that part to the politicians :-)
Coming to Sriram's new suggestion, looks good & doable.
Let's get going.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
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