Oh Dear! There are too many lost opportunities here including:
The opportunity to develop specific competencies
The opportunity to align individual skills and business succession needs
The opportunity to identify and develop the competencies that make global competitors successful
The opportunity via pre-course initiatives to prepare individuals for what performance improvements are expected following the training
and probably the opportunity to transfer the learning inro the workplace.... finally the opportunity to maximise the training budget.
I could go on but too busy designing programmes for organisations who take advantage of all these opportunities!
From United Kingdom, Manchester
4The opportunity to develop specific competencies
The opportunity to align individual skills and business succession needs
The opportunity to identify and develop the competencies that make global competitors successful
The opportunity via pre-course initiatives to prepare individuals for what performance improvements are expected following the training
and probably the opportunity to transfer the learning inro the workplace.... finally the opportunity to maximise the training budget.
I could go on but too busy designing programmes for organisations who take advantage of all these opportunities!
From United Kingdom, Manchester
Is there no objective KPI for the HR professional to ensure he does his role well?
The one thing I am seeing in India is the 'chalta hai' approach... I guess the failure to drill down to the basics and apply concepts is largely responsible. I could be wrong... and if so, gladly :-)
As far as the supervisors are concerned, most of them give ratings, but are not in a position to integrate their role as HR agents of the company, with their roles in their respective functions. So, I believe that is another reason for this phenomenon.
But given this situation, what really makes them tick?
From United States, Daphne
The one thing I am seeing in India is the 'chalta hai' approach... I guess the failure to drill down to the basics and apply concepts is largely responsible. I could be wrong... and if so, gladly :-)
As far as the supervisors are concerned, most of them give ratings, but are not in a position to integrate their role as HR agents of the company, with their roles in their respective functions. So, I believe that is another reason for this phenomenon.
But given this situation, what really makes them tick?
From United States, Daphne
Frankly the Indian training circus is the way it is because .. the people at top, the people on the right & left and the people below just don't care!
Suddenly you are the only odd man out with the passion for change!
But the thing is whatever happens, however it is when it comes to delivery - Trainers must give the best, each time & every time. No getting away from it at all. Hold the light high.
May all you have contented hearts knowing you always give the best to influence the most.
Shalom.
Raj
From India, Surat
Suddenly you are the only odd man out with the passion for change!
But the thing is whatever happens, however it is when it comes to delivery - Trainers must give the best, each time & every time. No getting away from it at all. Hold the light high.
May all you have contented hearts knowing you always give the best to influence the most.
Shalom.
Raj
From India, Surat
I agree to Mr. Gurjar's comment on 'chalta hai' attitude. All changes if required should flow from the top and not expect something to happen miraculously from the middle and bottom with the intervention of a trainer.
Trainers are often considered magicians for changing things, behaviours, systems and processes overnight, otherwise he/she is not a good trainer! He's ok ok if he doesn't entertain, if he hurts the sentiment of senior management who's attending the session, by discussing practices in the organization, if he doesn't bargain on training cost.
No wonder even after all this hoohaa about management institutes doling out milions every year, not even our great IIMs feature in the top 100 management colleges in the world.
Sub standard manure and seed quality will only fetch sub standard yield, so why blame the crop?
Sarang
From India, Mumbai
Trainers are often considered magicians for changing things, behaviours, systems and processes overnight, otherwise he/she is not a good trainer! He's ok ok if he doesn't entertain, if he hurts the sentiment of senior management who's attending the session, by discussing practices in the organization, if he doesn't bargain on training cost.
No wonder even after all this hoohaa about management institutes doling out milions every year, not even our great IIMs feature in the top 100 management colleges in the world.
Sub standard manure and seed quality will only fetch sub standard yield, so why blame the crop?
Sarang
From India, Mumbai
Even i too agree with Mr. Nikhil Gurjar's comment on "chalta hai" attitude. This is what killing PASSION in those employees who wants to do beyond their limits. When i was trying to do something with POSITIVE APPROACH, to bridge the gap between superiors and sub-ordinates and employees at all levels - HORIZONTAL & VERTICAL, as a part of TEAM BUILDING PROGRAM, i was advised not to do such thing because "A FEAR(FACTOR & NEGATIVE THOUGHTS) IN MY SUPERIOR'S MIND MADE HIM NOT TO DARE, TO THINK OUT OF THE BOX".
It is the fact and i do agree that, very few trainers DARE TO DREAM BIG and DARE TO THINK OUT OF THE BOX as they have guts to speak facts, based on truth, just to make trainees realize the REALITY, but, even this approach is not appreciated by MANAGEMENT as they want to have CONTROL ON EVERYTHING, thus there is no growth opportunity for an employee to prove his TALENTS.
With profound regards
From India, Chennai
It is the fact and i do agree that, very few trainers DARE TO DREAM BIG and DARE TO THINK OUT OF THE BOX as they have guts to speak facts, based on truth, just to make trainees realize the REALITY, but, even this approach is not appreciated by MANAGEMENT as they want to have CONTROL ON EVERYTHING, thus there is no growth opportunity for an employee to prove his TALENTS.
With profound regards
From India, Chennai
Training & development is not only organization responsibility its also a personal one, an individual has to take interest in what their being develop. Yes we all agree all training should be competence based VS KPI. But an employee appearing at a training session not knowing what are they trained on.
• How are you suppose to check weather training objective has been achieved
• How are you suppose to know what competence have you developed & closed the gap between lack & required
• How are you suppose to know how your going to apply the knowledge applied in your real life situation
• How are you suppose to know what ROI was
• How would you know the training was effective or not
I think it’s a personal responsibility to genuinely take interest in what training your taking & HR employees to ensure the employees know or how else are they going to evaluate their performance.
From Oman, Muscat
• How are you suppose to check weather training objective has been achieved
• How are you suppose to know what competence have you developed & closed the gap between lack & required
• How are you suppose to know how your going to apply the knowledge applied in your real life situation
• How are you suppose to know what ROI was
• How would you know the training was effective or not
I think it’s a personal responsibility to genuinely take interest in what training your taking & HR employees to ensure the employees know or how else are they going to evaluate their performance.
From Oman, Muscat
Anayaat,
Very interesting position.
I don't buy your logic for three reasons:
1. The HR selects the faculty for the program in most companies.
2. The individual nominee may not be recommending himself for the program. Someone else in the organization does that. In short, the person nominating is often different from the person attending (fitment to need).
3. The person attending may or may not have authority to approve a training budget.
Give this scenario, the onus lies on the HR as the faculty and the development vehicle is selected by the HR. If you are trying to push that to the individual employee, well, its like sitting in a taxi and expecting him to take you to a destination without telling him where that is!!! Don't you agree? Or did I misinterpret.
If responsible managers like you try to pass the buck of ROI, it could severely compromise the company position. An organization structure is put in place to ensure the company is in business. If you feel it is the job of the individual to look at these issues, don't you think this is a lapse on the part of the HR. Just curious, do you really buy your own logic?
I can say that post intervention, it is again an organizational responsibility to absorb and leverage from the initiative. Else, it will be like asking an MBA to do a clerks role... Don't you think so?
Individual responsibility needs to be clarified and discussed. The basic question is based on the premise that this is not done so in most companies... I agree that at the end of the day, the individual is also responsible. But it depends on how 'mature' the organization is in accepting 'change'.
From United States, Daphne
Very interesting position.
I don't buy your logic for three reasons:
1. The HR selects the faculty for the program in most companies.
2. The individual nominee may not be recommending himself for the program. Someone else in the organization does that. In short, the person nominating is often different from the person attending (fitment to need).
3. The person attending may or may not have authority to approve a training budget.
Give this scenario, the onus lies on the HR as the faculty and the development vehicle is selected by the HR. If you are trying to push that to the individual employee, well, its like sitting in a taxi and expecting him to take you to a destination without telling him where that is!!! Don't you agree? Or did I misinterpret.
If responsible managers like you try to pass the buck of ROI, it could severely compromise the company position. An organization structure is put in place to ensure the company is in business. If you feel it is the job of the individual to look at these issues, don't you think this is a lapse on the part of the HR. Just curious, do you really buy your own logic?
I can say that post intervention, it is again an organizational responsibility to absorb and leverage from the initiative. Else, it will be like asking an MBA to do a clerks role... Don't you think so?
Individual responsibility needs to be clarified and discussed. The basic question is based on the premise that this is not done so in most companies... I agree that at the end of the day, the individual is also responsible. But it depends on how 'mature' the organization is in accepting 'change'.
From United States, Daphne
Bingo! Anayaat, a point very well taken.
All said and done, one can take the horse to the water he can't make him drink it.
Without individual responsibility and his desire to upgrade at every opportune moment no training will give the needed outcome.
{1} It is therefore imperative that the Trainee be told the WHY of the training he is being assigned to. And that he is given the choice to attend it or not and then to provide him a list of skills he would choose to upgrade that directly addresses his need.
{2} It is also for the Trainee to give a very honest FEEDBACK by being assertive about the programme he/she attended.
But it is always the individual's RESPONSIBILITY to see that he gives his best to the company he serves and to do all that it takes.
Raj
skills2excel
From India, Surat
All said and done, one can take the horse to the water he can't make him drink it.
Without individual responsibility and his desire to upgrade at every opportune moment no training will give the needed outcome.
{1} It is therefore imperative that the Trainee be told the WHY of the training he is being assigned to. And that he is given the choice to attend it or not and then to provide him a list of skills he would choose to upgrade that directly addresses his need.
{2} It is also for the Trainee to give a very honest FEEDBACK by being assertive about the programme he/she attended.
But it is always the individual's RESPONSIBILITY to see that he gives his best to the company he serves and to do all that it takes.
Raj
skills2excel
From India, Surat
Raj,
Another interesting position. If you pay money for something, you feel that it is the responsibility of the seller to give his best to you??? If you are paying money for something, you did better ensure YOU get the value for YOUR money! I am using YOU to see what YOU think... Ensuring the returns from your employee cannot normally mean that you leave it to his understanding of 'his best' for your organization.
But then, we are digressing from the question... How do HR folks select the program? I am not sure if you say this is the practice in your company, but you sure seem to suggest this is a good way... I was more interested in understanding the current practice in various companies.
From United States, Daphne
Another interesting position. If you pay money for something, you feel that it is the responsibility of the seller to give his best to you??? If you are paying money for something, you did better ensure YOU get the value for YOUR money! I am using YOU to see what YOU think... Ensuring the returns from your employee cannot normally mean that you leave it to his understanding of 'his best' for your organization.
But then, we are digressing from the question... How do HR folks select the program? I am not sure if you say this is the practice in your company, but you sure seem to suggest this is a good way... I was more interested in understanding the current practice in various companies.
From United States, Daphne
Dear respected member, Mr. Nikhil S. Gurjar
My response was to the scenario given by the initiator of the subject, however I worked in a very young organization where the responsibility of training and development was shared between the HR & employees
• Employees knew exactly what program they attended,
• Employees with their managers discuss & choose their Training program
• HR Checked weather or not its in line with their annual training requirement which is decided during the KPI Setting session (KPI & TRG requirement of the year is planned & delivered at the same time.
• We do not select the faculty we select the Vendor.
To me the notion of employee being nominated and attending training program without knowing the content or what is about is absurd
From Oman, Muscat
My response was to the scenario given by the initiator of the subject, however I worked in a very young organization where the responsibility of training and development was shared between the HR & employees
• Employees knew exactly what program they attended,
• Employees with their managers discuss & choose their Training program
• HR Checked weather or not its in line with their annual training requirement which is decided during the KPI Setting session (KPI & TRG requirement of the year is planned & delivered at the same time.
• We do not select the faculty we select the Vendor.
To me the notion of employee being nominated and attending training program without knowing the content or what is about is absurd
From Oman, Muscat
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