one of my prev employers was a forerunner in: we did not mark the attendance at all.. every individual had deliverables which were 100% mutually decided and agreed upon at the start of the year. if performance fell below 85%, it warranted intervention by appropiate training and in case of no progress, leave the company.
From India, Delhi
41From India, Delhi
further measures to eliminate unsched leaves were:
10%monthly salary was earmarked as attendance bonus. you take one day unsched and you lose half. another day off and complete. plus you are counselled by your team lead/ line manager/ hr rep.
if you take unsched leaves, the said month and in case it spills over to other months, the entire quarter was not treated for performance appraisal.
medical leaves:
people could take sick leaves but on their return to work have to submit written advise & records of treatment from the specialist doctor. all expenses medical coverage for the entire family is the norm including OPD.
emergencies are accounted for seperately.
From India, Delhi
10%monthly salary was earmarked as attendance bonus. you take one day unsched and you lose half. another day off and complete. plus you are counselled by your team lead/ line manager/ hr rep.
if you take unsched leaves, the said month and in case it spills over to other months, the entire quarter was not treated for performance appraisal.
medical leaves:
people could take sick leaves but on their return to work have to submit written advise & records of treatment from the specialist doctor. all expenses medical coverage for the entire family is the norm including OPD.
emergencies are accounted for seperately.
From India, Delhi
Surya Vrat Rana
All companies do not follow COPC infact many will throw it in a dust bin by reading the first few lines. Also such practices work in vendor organisations or outsourcing companies that too in a niche space.
Also if you read my mail it a practical and tested theory which ensures employee engagement. The goal of a flexi work schedule is to increase EE levels.
Seondly discouraging or punishing individuals from taking a leave or leaves is ridiculous. As per shop & establishment act one weekly off is mandatory. Besides that every individual is eligible for 15 days PL and 12 days SL/CL. So preventing or incorporating measures from preventing an employee from taking a leave is illegal.
Not having attendance at is a great idea when the work force is fairly small and of similar age,education & salary. Do you expect a management trainee just out of a B school to follow a no attendance regime flawlessly as compared to a Unit head.
Besides the deliverable part is where smart HR comes into play.Use of job analysis ,job design and skill matrix help in finding the right candidate for the job.The shortcomings need to be isolated in advance and OJT needs to be initiated to ensure his deliverable's are met post training. Terminating an employee without a quarter on quarter comparison will lead to a high attrition rate and self defeating in the long run.
Also you need to understand western models cannot be blindly emulated in India primarily due to the skill gap,pay compression and above all workforce attitude.
We still are an old economy based job sector following Theory X models
From India, Mumbai
All companies do not follow COPC infact many will throw it in a dust bin by reading the first few lines. Also such practices work in vendor organisations or outsourcing companies that too in a niche space.
Also if you read my mail it a practical and tested theory which ensures employee engagement. The goal of a flexi work schedule is to increase EE levels.
Seondly discouraging or punishing individuals from taking a leave or leaves is ridiculous. As per shop & establishment act one weekly off is mandatory. Besides that every individual is eligible for 15 days PL and 12 days SL/CL. So preventing or incorporating measures from preventing an employee from taking a leave is illegal.
Not having attendance at is a great idea when the work force is fairly small and of similar age,education & salary. Do you expect a management trainee just out of a B school to follow a no attendance regime flawlessly as compared to a Unit head.
Besides the deliverable part is where smart HR comes into play.Use of job analysis ,job design and skill matrix help in finding the right candidate for the job.The shortcomings need to be isolated in advance and OJT needs to be initiated to ensure his deliverable's are met post training. Terminating an employee without a quarter on quarter comparison will lead to a high attrition rate and self defeating in the long run.
Also you need to understand western models cannot be blindly emulated in India primarily due to the skill gap,pay compression and above all workforce attitude.
We still are an old economy based job sector following Theory X models
From India, Mumbai
Anuradha grewal,
most of the country is reeking in poverty/ unemployment/ underemployment/ exploitation in unorganised sector but does it make it correct way ?
2nd statement that you have raised is "western systems" ...
did you notice that during MBA, books of foreign authors are prefered ?
in engineering, russians were the best in class.. now americans rule..
how many management concepts has India introduced to the world ?
have you seen channels like Discovery/ Nat geo and others.. do you see how much money America pumps in research.
and how they control the world economy...
have you seen the BIS standards,
the origins is mostly american/ british...
even the macaulay system of education system that we follow was introduced by the british...
nows lets take the last bastion of labour laws:
first ILO passes a resolution and then signatory countries introduce legislations be it child labour/ forced labour and so on
you will be shocked when you read the entire list of ILO conventions and the resultants legislations.. an exhaustive list is available in WRAP SA 8000 or ETI standards...
From India, Delhi
most of the country is reeking in poverty/ unemployment/ underemployment/ exploitation in unorganised sector but does it make it correct way ?
2nd statement that you have raised is "western systems" ...
did you notice that during MBA, books of foreign authors are prefered ?
in engineering, russians were the best in class.. now americans rule..
how many management concepts has India introduced to the world ?
have you seen channels like Discovery/ Nat geo and others.. do you see how much money America pumps in research.
and how they control the world economy...
have you seen the BIS standards,
the origins is mostly american/ british...
even the macaulay system of education system that we follow was introduced by the british...
nows lets take the last bastion of labour laws:
first ILO passes a resolution and then signatory countries introduce legislations be it child labour/ forced labour and so on
you will be shocked when you read the entire list of ILO conventions and the resultants legislations.. an exhaustive list is available in WRAP SA 8000 or ETI standards...
From India, Delhi
COPC is a derivative of Malcolm Balridge National Quality Award...
the training used to cost 87000, 10 years back...
and the standard is tough so even amongst outsourcing companies, few are able to implement.
its a b'ful standard, everything is illustrative...
From India, Delhi
the training used to cost 87000, 10 years back...
and the standard is tough so even amongst outsourcing companies, few are able to implement.
its a b'ful standard, everything is illustrative...
From India, Delhi
you talk about throwing the standard in a dustbin...
first borrow the standard from somewhere (if you were an avid learner, i would have shared it free of cost with you but not now) , read a couple of pages only....and if you find that it does not enrich your understanding of HR, then decide...
without reading dont pass statements
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not having attendance at is a great idea when the work force is fairly small and of similar age,education & salary.
we had 30k people in 55 countries/ 60 sector businesses, all age groups right from 23 to 70, trade certificate holders to Phd..
From India, Delhi
first borrow the standard from somewhere (if you were an avid learner, i would have shared it free of cost with you but not now) , read a couple of pages only....and if you find that it does not enrich your understanding of HR, then decide...
without reading dont pass statements
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not having attendance at is a great idea when the work force is fairly small and of similar age,education & salary.
we had 30k people in 55 countries/ 60 sector businesses, all age groups right from 23 to 70, trade certificate holders to Phd..
From India, Delhi
Mr Dana
First of all learn to accept other people's views and think as a HR manager and not as Admin executive.
Secondly don't judge what kind of a learner I or anybody is unless you have a concluded using a set of established tools you don't know whom I am and so do I.
Thirdly don't contradict yourself so much so that your posts are incoherent and project a confused frustrated individual trying to show off his superficial knowledge.
It is better if you stop making a mockery of yourself and reply to Bobby's specific question.
However if your shallow self esteem and over grown ego still persists I accept you as the foremost authority in HR COPC and all the 1 or 2 day certifications you have obtained that and display.
Wishing you and the people(they really need it) in your company the very best.
From India, Mumbai
First of all learn to accept other people's views and think as a HR manager and not as Admin executive.
Secondly don't judge what kind of a learner I or anybody is unless you have a concluded using a set of established tools you don't know whom I am and so do I.
Thirdly don't contradict yourself so much so that your posts are incoherent and project a confused frustrated individual trying to show off his superficial knowledge.
It is better if you stop making a mockery of yourself and reply to Bobby's specific question.
However if your shallow self esteem and over grown ego still persists I accept you as the foremost authority in HR COPC and all the 1 or 2 day certifications you have obtained that and display.
Wishing you and the people(they really need it) in your company the very best.
From India, Mumbai
all the assorted queries/ replies have been deleted individually and consolidated in one post for easy referral
From India, Delhi
From India, Delhi
Anuradha’s statements:
statement 1: Remember Flexi Time should be used as a OD and EE tool rather than a distribute-to-all measure.
statement 2: Seondly discouraging or punishing individuals from taking a leave or leaves is ridiculous. As per shop & establishment act one weekly off is mandatory. Besides that every individual is eligible for 15 days PL and 12 days SL/CL. So preventing or incorporating measures from preventing an employee from taking a leave is illegal.
Statement 3: We still are an old economy based job sector following Theory X models
Statement 4: Keep your reporting time from 7am to 10 am and closing time 4 pm to 7 pm. A biometric attendance system should ensure that a person coming in has to do compulsory 9 hours else risks losing his CL's.
Statement 5: First of all a Flexi time policy cannot be implemented without a budget to develop IT systems and realingnment of the core HR policy especially the KRA's
Statement 6: Also you need to understand western models cannot be blindly emulated in India primarily due to the skill gap,pay compression and above all workforce attitude.
answers to the above
i. not necassary, depends entirely on scope. normally in organisation wide interventions, it will be meant for all.
in a pilot stage yes it could be tested in a particular section/ location/ dept/ divison and so on..
there are cases wherein the same will be used as a positive discrimination measure. at my previous employer we used to encourage physically challenged people and women with spl. constraints to work with us.
for these people, office conveyance was sanctioned even beyond financial viability.
next from our side we were 100% Flexible in timings from our side.. only constraint was business needs.. we allowed the employee to decide here..
and the best part was earlier we had nil women working with us initially and we achieved 25% female workforce with constraints in 3 months.
ii. coming late or leaving early is not a bane only unscheduled leaves affect the bottom line.
all across the world employers impose penal clauses on people to come on time...
the respect for employee goes on decreasing with rank...
promoter or owner feels he/ she is is the only one who is most intelligent and responsible..
people lie to their bosses to take leaves.. this is disease.
now this statement reinstates pride of an employee at the lowest level.
it treats everyone as responsible...
doesn’t matter how many hours you come in late/ leave early, you are equally intelligent/ accountable as the CEO feels for himself.
iii. While making a roster, the manager must consult his direct reports and then only make it…
Barring Emergencies, If there are deviations, it means the manager lacks planning abilities and the employee lacks reliability.
iv. overtime and extra hires means manager lacks planning ability
only a specialist who has diagnosed and will be treating the patient has the power to sanction sick leaves.
Here the best thing is employee and his family are covered for all medical costs including OPD by the employer. He/ she doesn’t need to think twice even if it’s a minor issue before going to a hospital.
v. company provides 30 days of paid vacation including air tickets to an employee.. not a single case of cheating an employee exists..
vi. Almost Nil overtime: everyone has to leave on time.. only an dept head can sanction OT and the extra cost of keeping the office open with support staff has to be justified. Overtime is looked down upon as incompetence. No one calls an employee after working hours or on holidays.
vii. Annual Business plan with quarterly deliverables: every individual barring shop floor workers are employed on annual business plan. Annual business plan for each individual is decided with 100 % consultation and consent between the manager and the employee. The employee deliverables are monitored quarterly.. the manager never breathes down someone’s neck.
viii. the company is a forerunner amongst the few organizations worldwide which have “zero attendance marking”
ix. ISO 9001 nowhere recommends spending of crores of rupees on expensive softwares/ technologies..
The basic philosophy has to be right.
Eg Marriott is no 1 in customer service… if an employee finds a guest struggling with his luggage or even while walking, they will abandon their official duty and first render service to the guest.
Classic lables, an Indian ompany which figured in best workplaces to work for dint have a HR Manager and quality manager for 60 years.. their average salary to a worker was 20k pm when the whole economy was paying 6.5k upwards..
When there were floods, company release loan for all aggrieved.. only 3 people applied for the loan out of 500 affected. Every employee was given a motorcycle as a bonus.
x. company has 30k employees in 55 countries worldwide and operates in 60 sector businesses. Education ranges from trade certificate holder to Phds, age ranges from 23 to >70.. experience starts from zero till veterans.
xi. the global economy started in a big way with french/ portugese/ british coming to india for trade 200 years back. I hope you remember Father of the nation Mr. Mahatma Gandhi started charkha movement against the cotton mills of England.
Today international certifications are the only way of doing business be it food stuffs/ cement/ HVAC/ professional services etc..
xii. credentials of author: …
I have been a topper in bhagat singh college, gold medalist in delhi university in 2 subjects, next PGDM from LBSIM and then completed 1.5 yrs of Phd in change management with 90% from AIMA ... then came various courses like WRAP/ COPC/ performance and competence developer/ compensation n benefits manager/ psychometric testing professional/ ISO 9001/ ISO 270001 / Six Sigma champion/ WRAP/ SA 8000/ ETI/ IEC 17025/ ISO 27001 etc...
during my career i have worked with leading brands: American express/ HCL / Paras group/ April cornell/ Zamil group with a fair amount of expat assignments...
i have been a dept head since oct 20003 and an advisor to CEO since dec 2006
Anuradha,
I do not appreciate and shall not be entertaining any further, unwarranted statements from your goodself…
If you beg to differ, kindly cite specific instances.
I will explain…
Kindly note no further personal statements..
Next a brief on your academic/ professional credentials will be appreciated and is the need of the hour.
This will help me and others understand you in better light.
Thank you,
Warm regards
surya
From India, Delhi
statement 1: Remember Flexi Time should be used as a OD and EE tool rather than a distribute-to-all measure.
statement 2: Seondly discouraging or punishing individuals from taking a leave or leaves is ridiculous. As per shop & establishment act one weekly off is mandatory. Besides that every individual is eligible for 15 days PL and 12 days SL/CL. So preventing or incorporating measures from preventing an employee from taking a leave is illegal.
Statement 3: We still are an old economy based job sector following Theory X models
Statement 4: Keep your reporting time from 7am to 10 am and closing time 4 pm to 7 pm. A biometric attendance system should ensure that a person coming in has to do compulsory 9 hours else risks losing his CL's.
Statement 5: First of all a Flexi time policy cannot be implemented without a budget to develop IT systems and realingnment of the core HR policy especially the KRA's
Statement 6: Also you need to understand western models cannot be blindly emulated in India primarily due to the skill gap,pay compression and above all workforce attitude.
answers to the above
i. not necassary, depends entirely on scope. normally in organisation wide interventions, it will be meant for all.
in a pilot stage yes it could be tested in a particular section/ location/ dept/ divison and so on..
there are cases wherein the same will be used as a positive discrimination measure. at my previous employer we used to encourage physically challenged people and women with spl. constraints to work with us.
for these people, office conveyance was sanctioned even beyond financial viability.
next from our side we were 100% Flexible in timings from our side.. only constraint was business needs.. we allowed the employee to decide here..
and the best part was earlier we had nil women working with us initially and we achieved 25% female workforce with constraints in 3 months.
ii. coming late or leaving early is not a bane only unscheduled leaves affect the bottom line.
all across the world employers impose penal clauses on people to come on time...
the respect for employee goes on decreasing with rank...
promoter or owner feels he/ she is is the only one who is most intelligent and responsible..
people lie to their bosses to take leaves.. this is disease.
now this statement reinstates pride of an employee at the lowest level.
it treats everyone as responsible...
doesn’t matter how many hours you come in late/ leave early, you are equally intelligent/ accountable as the CEO feels for himself.
iii. While making a roster, the manager must consult his direct reports and then only make it…
Barring Emergencies, If there are deviations, it means the manager lacks planning abilities and the employee lacks reliability.
iv. overtime and extra hires means manager lacks planning ability
only a specialist who has diagnosed and will be treating the patient has the power to sanction sick leaves.
Here the best thing is employee and his family are covered for all medical costs including OPD by the employer. He/ she doesn’t need to think twice even if it’s a minor issue before going to a hospital.
v. company provides 30 days of paid vacation including air tickets to an employee.. not a single case of cheating an employee exists..
vi. Almost Nil overtime: everyone has to leave on time.. only an dept head can sanction OT and the extra cost of keeping the office open with support staff has to be justified. Overtime is looked down upon as incompetence. No one calls an employee after working hours or on holidays.
vii. Annual Business plan with quarterly deliverables: every individual barring shop floor workers are employed on annual business plan. Annual business plan for each individual is decided with 100 % consultation and consent between the manager and the employee. The employee deliverables are monitored quarterly.. the manager never breathes down someone’s neck.
viii. the company is a forerunner amongst the few organizations worldwide which have “zero attendance marking”
ix. ISO 9001 nowhere recommends spending of crores of rupees on expensive softwares/ technologies..
The basic philosophy has to be right.
Eg Marriott is no 1 in customer service… if an employee finds a guest struggling with his luggage or even while walking, they will abandon their official duty and first render service to the guest.
Classic lables, an Indian ompany which figured in best workplaces to work for dint have a HR Manager and quality manager for 60 years.. their average salary to a worker was 20k pm when the whole economy was paying 6.5k upwards..
When there were floods, company release loan for all aggrieved.. only 3 people applied for the loan out of 500 affected. Every employee was given a motorcycle as a bonus.
x. company has 30k employees in 55 countries worldwide and operates in 60 sector businesses. Education ranges from trade certificate holder to Phds, age ranges from 23 to >70.. experience starts from zero till veterans.
xi. the global economy started in a big way with french/ portugese/ british coming to india for trade 200 years back. I hope you remember Father of the nation Mr. Mahatma Gandhi started charkha movement against the cotton mills of England.
Today international certifications are the only way of doing business be it food stuffs/ cement/ HVAC/ professional services etc..
xii. credentials of author: …
I have been a topper in bhagat singh college, gold medalist in delhi university in 2 subjects, next PGDM from LBSIM and then completed 1.5 yrs of Phd in change management with 90% from AIMA ... then came various courses like WRAP/ COPC/ performance and competence developer/ compensation n benefits manager/ psychometric testing professional/ ISO 9001/ ISO 270001 / Six Sigma champion/ WRAP/ SA 8000/ ETI/ IEC 17025/ ISO 27001 etc...
during my career i have worked with leading brands: American express/ HCL / Paras group/ April cornell/ Zamil group with a fair amount of expat assignments...
i have been a dept head since oct 20003 and an advisor to CEO since dec 2006
Anuradha,
I do not appreciate and shall not be entertaining any further, unwarranted statements from your goodself…
If you beg to differ, kindly cite specific instances.
I will explain…
Kindly note no further personal statements..
Next a brief on your academic/ professional credentials will be appreciated and is the need of the hour.
This will help me and others understand you in better light.
Thank you,
Warm regards
surya
From India, Delhi
Rana
Stop using my name and replies to propagate your so called academic and professional record.
What ever you have written still makes no sense and lacks continuity and has clear instances of plagiarism of published case studies.
For eg :You erudite self have been giving examples of MNC's or conglomerates which are in existence before you topped in DU and LBSIM. Have you had the horse sense to find out from Bobby what does his company do and how old it is with how many employees.
Did your great Doctorate mind even try to figure out from Bobby if this Flexi Policy that he needs was a short term or long term measure directed to specific or company wide employees.
Did your genius ever bother to know what type of company is Bobby referring too i.e a Public limited or a private limited and most importantly what is the management's objective to use a Flexi time policy for eg: EE,Attrition control, Cost control. Infact is it a management preposition or HR initiative.
Above all have you asked Bobby that all the cut copy paste examples you have given out of which does bobby's company follow any of them if no what are possible reasons.
Well from your absurd posts I can conclude a BIG NO.
Instead you cut paste instances which have given no clear direction to form any policy leave a sensitive policy like working time.
What I had suggested to Bobby and not to you since I dont know who you are and care nevertheless was a generic process followed by HR that will help to find the root cause of the problem and if needed provide solutions beyond flexi time.
There are case studies on this too but they may not be part of a P.hd (piled higher & deeper) program since intelligent individuals have already proven that the system works.
I am least interested in seeking replies from you Mr Rana nor do I or anybody need to prove anything on this medium. Unlike those who seems to be suffering from an acute case of low self esteem. (Oh come on who cares where you work studied or courses you completed). Why are you giving these details. Is there a job posting that we cant see or is it cold calling or is it that your advice to the CEO have gone horribly wrong for which you are facing diatribe & need to vent it out here.
In any case it is a very poor display of HR skills & practices.
I would advice you to reply to Bobby's queries only who has posed the question and not mine as for me your just another spammer.
Also please do spend some time on your core HR activities for which you are paid rather than replying somebody who couldn't care less.
Have fun and try to curtail your frustration.
I am through now
Thanks
Anuradha Grewal
Head HR
(No topper or P.hd just somebody who believes Human resources Development)
From India, Mumbai
Stop using my name and replies to propagate your so called academic and professional record.
What ever you have written still makes no sense and lacks continuity and has clear instances of plagiarism of published case studies.
For eg :You erudite self have been giving examples of MNC's or conglomerates which are in existence before you topped in DU and LBSIM. Have you had the horse sense to find out from Bobby what does his company do and how old it is with how many employees.
Did your great Doctorate mind even try to figure out from Bobby if this Flexi Policy that he needs was a short term or long term measure directed to specific or company wide employees.
Did your genius ever bother to know what type of company is Bobby referring too i.e a Public limited or a private limited and most importantly what is the management's objective to use a Flexi time policy for eg: EE,Attrition control, Cost control. Infact is it a management preposition or HR initiative.
Above all have you asked Bobby that all the cut copy paste examples you have given out of which does bobby's company follow any of them if no what are possible reasons.
Well from your absurd posts I can conclude a BIG NO.
Instead you cut paste instances which have given no clear direction to form any policy leave a sensitive policy like working time.
What I had suggested to Bobby and not to you since I dont know who you are and care nevertheless was a generic process followed by HR that will help to find the root cause of the problem and if needed provide solutions beyond flexi time.
There are case studies on this too but they may not be part of a P.hd (piled higher & deeper) program since intelligent individuals have already proven that the system works.
I am least interested in seeking replies from you Mr Rana nor do I or anybody need to prove anything on this medium. Unlike those who seems to be suffering from an acute case of low self esteem. (Oh come on who cares where you work studied or courses you completed). Why are you giving these details. Is there a job posting that we cant see or is it cold calling or is it that your advice to the CEO have gone horribly wrong for which you are facing diatribe & need to vent it out here.
In any case it is a very poor display of HR skills & practices.
I would advice you to reply to Bobby's queries only who has posed the question and not mine as for me your just another spammer.
Also please do spend some time on your core HR activities for which you are paid rather than replying somebody who couldn't care less.
Have fun and try to curtail your frustration.
I am through now
Thanks
Anuradha Grewal
Head HR
(No topper or P.hd just somebody who believes Human resources Development)
From India, Mumbai
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Canteen Policy.doc