Dear Sir,
I am working in Pvt. Ltd. company as the first HR in this company and joined in Mar 2012.
This company is functioning since 11.04.2004, but there was no epf and esi enrollment. Now my issue is some of the employees are working with this company A from the year 2004. But company A is no longer existing, any where in present.
My company, i.e. Company B registered on 19.08.2006 and renamed in 05.04.2011, with EPF and ESI enrollment date as 01.01.2007.
Company A employees has been transfered to company B successfully. But there is no joining formalities is being done in the company B.
I have to complete this task from the beginning, till date as I am the first HR.
I would like to ask you that what would be the date of joining of the employees from company A.
Option 1. Would EPF enrollment date be the date of joining?
Option 2. Date of company B registration would be the date of joining for old employees who have been working since the year 2004?
Please help me on this.
Your kind response will be highly appreciated.
Thanks/Keerti
From India, Delhi
I am working in Pvt. Ltd. company as the first HR in this company and joined in Mar 2012.
This company is functioning since 11.04.2004, but there was no epf and esi enrollment. Now my issue is some of the employees are working with this company A from the year 2004. But company A is no longer existing, any where in present.
My company, i.e. Company B registered on 19.08.2006 and renamed in 05.04.2011, with EPF and ESI enrollment date as 01.01.2007.
Company A employees has been transfered to company B successfully. But there is no joining formalities is being done in the company B.
I have to complete this task from the beginning, till date as I am the first HR.
I would like to ask you that what would be the date of joining of the employees from company A.
Option 1. Would EPF enrollment date be the date of joining?
Option 2. Date of company B registration would be the date of joining for old employees who have been working since the year 2004?
Please help me on this.
Your kind response will be highly appreciated.
Thanks/Keerti
From India, Delhi
Dear Kirti,
EPF starts from the date of joining. We managed the PF accounts transfer during a merger. We transferred all the accounts to the new combined entity. They were issued detailed Appointment Letter announcing their employment with the new combined entity. It further declared every benefit, designation and structure, offered by the parent company as null and void.
However, in your case the first entity never was registered. I request our experts to respond to this.
From India, Mumbai
1859EPF starts from the date of joining. We managed the PF accounts transfer during a merger. We transferred all the accounts to the new combined entity. They were issued detailed Appointment Letter announcing their employment with the new combined entity. It further declared every benefit, designation and structure, offered by the parent company as null and void.
However, in your case the first entity never was registered. I request our experts to respond to this.
From India, Mumbai
Dear Keerti ji,
I am confused with your query.
You said, you are working with a Pvt. Ltd. Company which is incorporated in 2004 and further you say this company is no longer in existence.
You also said your company 'B' started in August 2006 which is registered under EPF in Jan 2007 i.e. after 6 months.
What I feel, you are working with company 'B' and not with 'A' which is not in existence.
Ownership Status of company 'B' is not mentioned by you but I presume, it is also a Pvt. Ltd. company.
My questions to you:
1. Why you think of company 'A' now, which is not in existence?
2. Is the entity of both the companies same?
3. Why you feel the employees of company 'A' are transferred to company 'B'?
According to me, your company 'B' is a separate entity and the same must have registered with PF on having 20 plus employees first time.
Date of joining PF in respect of employees at the time of registration is the date of registration.
Your record must have correctly mentioned about the date of joining in your Form 9 & Form 5. Also you must have uploaded the missing data in annexure-II according to the record of Form 9 & Form 5.
Finally, one more question, why you said you have to complete this task from beginning?
From India, Mumbai
I am confused with your query.
You said, you are working with a Pvt. Ltd. Company which is incorporated in 2004 and further you say this company is no longer in existence.
You also said your company 'B' started in August 2006 which is registered under EPF in Jan 2007 i.e. after 6 months.
What I feel, you are working with company 'B' and not with 'A' which is not in existence.
Ownership Status of company 'B' is not mentioned by you but I presume, it is also a Pvt. Ltd. company.
My questions to you:
1. Why you think of company 'A' now, which is not in existence?
2. Is the entity of both the companies same?
3. Why you feel the employees of company 'A' are transferred to company 'B'?
According to me, your company 'B' is a separate entity and the same must have registered with PF on having 20 plus employees first time.
Date of joining PF in respect of employees at the time of registration is the date of registration.
Your record must have correctly mentioned about the date of joining in your Form 9 & Form 5. Also you must have uploaded the missing data in annexure-II according to the record of Form 9 & Form 5.
Finally, one more question, why you said you have to complete this task from beginning?
From India, Mumbai
I am totally aligned with the views of Mr. Keshav Korgaonkar.
Since Company A is non-existent, there is no point in doing anything in the matter and Date of Registration for PF could be considered as the date of joining for PF in the new entity.
Regards
From India, Mumbai
Since Company A is non-existent, there is no point in doing anything in the matter and Date of Registration for PF could be considered as the date of joining for PF in the new entity.
Regards
From India, Mumbai
Just to add one point to the views expressed above - if the Company A was coverable under the EPF Act when that Company was in existence, but not covered, then those employees will be entitled to the benefits from the date of joining the Company A. In that case the management has to pay the arrears of contributions alongwith interest and damages which may work out to a substantial amount depending on the size!
From India, Madras
From India, Madras
Dear All,
Thanks for your kind responses.
i would like to do more clear my query. i have joined in company B which was incorporated in 19.08.2006 and registered in EPF and ESI enrollment on 01.01.2007.means after 4-5 months.
so all the previous company A employees has been joined to Com B and they all are registered in epf and esi as on 01.01.2007.
in that case what do i do with the date of joining of previous employees.
01. can we give date of joining from incorporated date of the company or epf registration date would be the date of joining.
02. can i show resign from company A before the date of joining in com B.
some of employees are having joining letter of company A.
there are presuming there date of joining from that previous date only hence com A not in Existence at present.
please help...................
how can i solve this problem.. and please suggest about legal implications.
Thanks/Keerti
From India, Delhi
Thanks for your kind responses.
i would like to do more clear my query. i have joined in company B which was incorporated in 19.08.2006 and registered in EPF and ESI enrollment on 01.01.2007.means after 4-5 months.
so all the previous company A employees has been joined to Com B and they all are registered in epf and esi as on 01.01.2007.
in that case what do i do with the date of joining of previous employees.
01. can we give date of joining from incorporated date of the company or epf registration date would be the date of joining.
02. can i show resign from company A before the date of joining in com B.
some of employees are having joining letter of company A.
there are presuming there date of joining from that previous date only hence com A not in Existence at present.
please help...................
how can i solve this problem.. and please suggest about legal implications.
Thanks/Keerti
From India, Delhi
Hello keerti
when i have joined my current company we are having same situation
At the time when we have merged A into B we have issued appointment letter with effect of PF/ESIC enrollment date only not with actual establishment date of company B even though he/she working with same group but in actual he employed and registered in company B dated 01.01.2007 so that should be his DOJ
Even though if you wish to confirm than you can take the guidance of any consultant
From India, Ahmadabad
when i have joined my current company we are having same situation
At the time when we have merged A into B we have issued appointment letter with effect of PF/ESIC enrollment date only not with actual establishment date of company B even though he/she working with same group but in actual he employed and registered in company B dated 01.01.2007 so that should be his DOJ
Even though if you wish to confirm than you can take the guidance of any consultant
From India, Ahmadabad
Thanks for guidance sir,
as i already mentioned in my query some of employees are having joining letter of com A which indicates previous doj before Incorporation date of com B.
how do i deal with this.
can i show their resign in comA and reappoint in com B as on EPF effective date??
is there any legal implications?
kindly reply.
Thanks/Keerti
From India, Delhi
as i already mentioned in my query some of employees are having joining letter of com A which indicates previous doj before Incorporation date of com B.
how do i deal with this.
can i show their resign in comA and reappoint in com B as on EPF effective date??
is there any legal implications?
kindly reply.
Thanks/Keerti
From India, Delhi
hi keerti
in that case you should show their resign in comA and reappoint in com B as on EPF effective
For legal implication i dont have much more idea, but think you can consult local EPF office or any EPF officer
From India, Ahmadabad
in that case you should show their resign in comA and reappoint in com B as on EPF effective
For legal implication i dont have much more idea, but think you can consult local EPF office or any EPF officer
From India, Ahmadabad
Thanks for such a valuable suggestion.
i think it will be the best idea. but at the time of gratuity, every previous employee will consider for their previous DOJ.
how do i tackle them in that matter. 11.02.2004 to 01.01.2007 its not the small period.as per as gratuity is concern.
Thanks/Keerti
From India, Delhi
i think it will be the best idea. but at the time of gratuity, every previous employee will consider for their previous DOJ.
how do i tackle them in that matter. 11.02.2004 to 01.01.2007 its not the small period.as per as gratuity is concern.
Thanks/Keerti
From India, Delhi
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