Dear,
Hiring and firing is most common abroad. In fact, this kind of system is implemented and followed by most of the MNCs. They believe that the money invested in hiring new employees is far less than training them. Even if employees are trained, there is no guarantee that they will perform well.
Now, this has become a mantra for management. They hardly think twice before hiring or firing employees.
From India, New Delhi
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32Hiring and firing is most common abroad. In fact, this kind of system is implemented and followed by most of the MNCs. They believe that the money invested in hiring new employees is far less than training them. Even if employees are trained, there is no guarantee that they will perform well.
Now, this has become a mantra for management. They hardly think twice before hiring or firing employees.
From India, New Delhi
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Hi,
This must be a good topic to discuss. I also once faced the same problem, and this reduces the attitude of people who worked sincerely for the organization. It also puts a question mark on employees' career development.
Thanks,
Radha
From India, Madras
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This must be a good topic to discuss. I also once faced the same problem, and this reduces the attitude of people who worked sincerely for the organization. It also puts a question mark on employees' career development.
Thanks,
Radha
From India, Madras
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Hi Shweta, I can understand your anguish. The bigger the giant, the more ruthless the layoff. It is sad to see competent people leave. Firing to cut costs is a common practice during a market recession, and these decisions are taken at the highest level, or they should be. The decision has to be deliberate and not panic-driven as it appears in the case of your organization, as it involves careers and lives.
Whom to fire is the next decision. Here, the HR department has to be incorporated. Some basis has to be set to fire employees; it cannot be done arbitrarily. Relative merit in terms of competency, loyalty to the organization, willingness to work for less, spheres of expertise are some of the parameters for relieving employees. Making life hell for someone simply to ease them out is cruel and, to a large extent, immature/unprofessional. It is always better to be honest and upfront.
To a large extent, the employee should be convinced that the organization has not retained someone less competent than them and fired them. Firing to cut costs cannot be wished away, but it can definitely be handled in an honest, mature, fair, and humane manner.
From India, Delhi
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Whom to fire is the next decision. Here, the HR department has to be incorporated. Some basis has to be set to fire employees; it cannot be done arbitrarily. Relative merit in terms of competency, loyalty to the organization, willingness to work for less, spheres of expertise are some of the parameters for relieving employees. Making life hell for someone simply to ease them out is cruel and, to a large extent, immature/unprofessional. It is always better to be honest and upfront.
To a large extent, the employee should be convinced that the organization has not retained someone less competent than them and fired them. Firing to cut costs cannot be wished away, but it can definitely be handled in an honest, mature, fair, and humane manner.
From India, Delhi
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Hi Shweta,
This is a good topic for a debate. In fact, these things are happening very frequently in almost all sectors, be it IT, ITES, BFSI, Pharma, Airline, or any other sector.
According to me, this is a way of reducing costs, increasing profits, or reaching the breakeven level to sustain in the market.
Companies that are project-based face these kinds of problems more often. When they have good projects or orders, they recruit people in numbers. However, when they finish up these projects and do not have similar projects or orders in hand, they start laying off people. This is a part of the business, and they do it.
In most cases, people who are sitting on the bench or are less productive are fired or asked to leave. Productive individuals face this situation rarely. Therefore, one needs to work on themselves to have the right skill set required for the job in any sector.
It all depends on the economy. If it is growing, it will generate more jobs, and even people who are less qualified will get a job because the demand is high and the supply is low. Conversely, when the economy is down, only those people who have the right skill set are secure because companies become very selective in choosing people. They look for individuals with multiple skills to have less manpower and maximum productivity to sustain in the market.
HR is a significant part of the business, and it is crucial to understand this from a business point of view why it is done.
I have shared my viewpoints on the subject. I hope it will help you understand this better.
Regards,
Surendra
From India, Surat
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This is a good topic for a debate. In fact, these things are happening very frequently in almost all sectors, be it IT, ITES, BFSI, Pharma, Airline, or any other sector.
According to me, this is a way of reducing costs, increasing profits, or reaching the breakeven level to sustain in the market.
Companies that are project-based face these kinds of problems more often. When they have good projects or orders, they recruit people in numbers. However, when they finish up these projects and do not have similar projects or orders in hand, they start laying off people. This is a part of the business, and they do it.
In most cases, people who are sitting on the bench or are less productive are fired or asked to leave. Productive individuals face this situation rarely. Therefore, one needs to work on themselves to have the right skill set required for the job in any sector.
It all depends on the economy. If it is growing, it will generate more jobs, and even people who are less qualified will get a job because the demand is high and the supply is low. Conversely, when the economy is down, only those people who have the right skill set are secure because companies become very selective in choosing people. They look for individuals with multiple skills to have less manpower and maximum productivity to sustain in the market.
HR is a significant part of the business, and it is crucial to understand this from a business point of view why it is done.
I have shared my viewpoints on the subject. I hope it will help you understand this better.
Regards,
Surendra
From India, Surat
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Dear Shweta,
In your reply to Tania on WHY HR?, you have mentioned:
HR acts as a recruiter, Cost Centre, organization developer, manpower projection, budget projector. HR helps the organization to perform at its best by providing the right person for the right job...
I think you should act according to what you quote. When you state that you are the Cost Centre, Manpower projection, Budget Projector, then you should understand how the company is performing. Is it profitable? Can it accommodate enough manpower? I believe everyone agrees that the company cannot be blamed, but you are stretching the issue too far. If you quote it, then you should mean it.
Shweta, in your previous message, you mentioned:
"Dear Friends, You all are aware that these days a lot of companies are cutting manpower in order to do some cost-cutting... I would like to raise the question, 'Is this good HR practice to hire first and then fire?' Companies are asking for resignations even if the employees meet expectations or make the working environment unfavorable so that the employees leave themselves... My own company is doing the same... Recently, our HR head said that we are not going to retain anybody, and after every resignation, we will celebrate - jokingly. But I was wondering if this is a final decision, then why do we work hard on the recruitments, selecting the right person... Our management goes for excess manpower... We had more than 1500 employees, but in the last six months, only 600 remain. Also, in most of the exit forms, employees have mentioned that they were forced to leave... I would like you all to shed some light on this as aren't we playing with employees' futures? Expecting to see a few views on it... Thanks, Shweta Jaitly"
Thank you.
From Qatar, Doha
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In your reply to Tania on WHY HR?, you have mentioned:
HR acts as a recruiter, Cost Centre, organization developer, manpower projection, budget projector. HR helps the organization to perform at its best by providing the right person for the right job...
I think you should act according to what you quote. When you state that you are the Cost Centre, Manpower projection, Budget Projector, then you should understand how the company is performing. Is it profitable? Can it accommodate enough manpower? I believe everyone agrees that the company cannot be blamed, but you are stretching the issue too far. If you quote it, then you should mean it.
Shweta, in your previous message, you mentioned:
"Dear Friends, You all are aware that these days a lot of companies are cutting manpower in order to do some cost-cutting... I would like to raise the question, 'Is this good HR practice to hire first and then fire?' Companies are asking for resignations even if the employees meet expectations or make the working environment unfavorable so that the employees leave themselves... My own company is doing the same... Recently, our HR head said that we are not going to retain anybody, and after every resignation, we will celebrate - jokingly. But I was wondering if this is a final decision, then why do we work hard on the recruitments, selecting the right person... Our management goes for excess manpower... We had more than 1500 employees, but in the last six months, only 600 remain. Also, in most of the exit forms, employees have mentioned that they were forced to leave... I would like you all to shed some light on this as aren't we playing with employees' futures? Expecting to see a few views on it... Thanks, Shweta Jaitly"
Thank you.
From Qatar, Doha
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It's a good topic to discuss in the present scenario. Hard times are being faced by employees. When things were going well and until the US economy took a downturn, everything was fine. Many businesses had signed deals by showcasing the strength of their workforce, but now, due to financial issues caused by the US economic recession, they are asking employees to leave. Instead, they could explore other alternatives to cut costs, as suggested by our friends in this forum.
Looking from a business perspective, business owners had planned extensively to stabilize their operations and create numerous job opportunities. Therefore, they must have considered various alternatives before deciding to reduce manpower to sustain their businesses during challenging times.
Please let me know if I am mistaken. :icon1:
Vamsi...
From India, Hyderabad
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Looking from a business perspective, business owners had planned extensively to stabilize their operations and create numerous job opportunities. Therefore, they must have considered various alternatives before deciding to reduce manpower to sustain their businesses during challenging times.
Please let me know if I am mistaken. :icon1:
Vamsi...
From India, Hyderabad
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Hi,
In a lighter note, you just can't fire without hiring. Thus, hiring is a must!
But on a serious note, I think we should look at the business perspective too. As we have been going global, our economy is not insulated anymore, unlike in the past. If the entire globe is affected, we are only natural victims. Would you like to say that Lehman Brothers filed for Chapter 11 to get extra happiness?
In our current legal system, it is not an easy option to fire. Thus, I personally don't think companies enjoy shutting down in part or full. They also have other stakeholders in addition to employees.
The only issue here is how wise the downsizing process is. How kindly it is handled and how much care is taken to inflict the least pain. I assume there is going to be no zero pain situation.
And part of the organization downsized only means that the other part is right-sized for survival. Some jobs are saved.
How many HR managers know that they are hiring so as to create a flock ready for firing? No one knows the future. Not even Merrill Lynch :-)
Regards,
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In a lighter note, you just can't fire without hiring. Thus, hiring is a must!
But on a serious note, I think we should look at the business perspective too. As we have been going global, our economy is not insulated anymore, unlike in the past. If the entire globe is affected, we are only natural victims. Would you like to say that Lehman Brothers filed for Chapter 11 to get extra happiness?
In our current legal system, it is not an easy option to fire. Thus, I personally don't think companies enjoy shutting down in part or full. They also have other stakeholders in addition to employees.
The only issue here is how wise the downsizing process is. How kindly it is handled and how much care is taken to inflict the least pain. I assume there is going to be no zero pain situation.
And part of the organization downsized only means that the other part is right-sized for survival. Some jobs are saved.
How many HR managers know that they are hiring so as to create a flock ready for firing? No one knows the future. Not even Merrill Lynch :-)
Regards,
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Hi All,
Well, I have by now seen posts in favor and against the topic. It's eventually good, especially I'll comment on Shweta and Shahed's hard work in putting their posts. Good job done by both. On one hand, the issue raised is worth getting noticed itself, and on the other hand, as an employee, we need to understand why these things happen.
I must appreciate the views mentioned by Shahed, but friend, don't you think that somewhere down the line it eventually affects you even if you are an employee of a company? And if not, then a time would come when it'll show its effect on the coming generation!
Whatever might be the reason, I hope things would start becoming favorable for both employee and employer. Ameen. :icon1::icon1::icon1:
From India
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Well, I have by now seen posts in favor and against the topic. It's eventually good, especially I'll comment on Shweta and Shahed's hard work in putting their posts. Good job done by both. On one hand, the issue raised is worth getting noticed itself, and on the other hand, as an employee, we need to understand why these things happen.
I must appreciate the views mentioned by Shahed, but friend, don't you think that somewhere down the line it eventually affects you even if you are an employee of a company? And if not, then a time would come when it'll show its effect on the coming generation!
Whatever might be the reason, I hope things would start becoming favorable for both employee and employer. Ameen. :icon1::icon1::icon1:
From India
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Hi Shahed,
Yes, I have mentioned and have acted accordingly, but I guess you have not got it right...
Cost center, Manpower projection, Budget Projector, Budget projector - Let me be specific this time as I know you again won't be able to understand...
By all the terms mentioned above, I meant proper manpower planning (which is done by HR only). By Cost Cutting Measures, I meant again cost cutting on the company's expenses such as stationery, printing cost, visiting cards, conveyance, traveling, etc. (Might be in your Mid-Sized Company these things won't, but in ours, we have major billings on these) and yes, putting the right and skilled people for the right job is HR responsibility. I understand that HR works according to the management decision but still...
As far as the Company's performance is concerned, it has to be measured in terms of projection of manpower, cost involved in it, and majorly the strategy... action plan we work on... This has to be done before sanctioning the manpower with the assumptions on what would be the recruitment cost and what would be the risk involved if not able to meet up with the deadlines...
In fact, if I think you haven't read my reply on your post, I have clearly stated that I am not blaming Companies for that... It is just an issue on why to hire people when really not needed... How can the Management of any company who thinks that be so mean?
If somebody is not performing, then Firing makes sense, but just because management thought they will make it but unfortunately didn't... doesn't make sense to fire anybody... I agree that what if employees break the bond or leave the company... in that case, my friend HR does take hard action - Legal... and also I am not pulling the string too long, I was replying to your specific Queries...
This is about the management not about you and me... it would be appreciated if this can be stopped here as we can't change other's mindset... might be with you it's okay, but personally with me, it's not... There should be a valid reason for the sacking of any employee... Excess manpower indicates bad strategies (if not required)...
You are being tough on this, but as an employee, if your management will fire you without giving the proper reason, then you will understand the real pain of people who go through this... There are lots of employees who are equally talented but are victims of this new management funda...
I am again mentioning this not against HR, but this is just a thought to improvise the things if happening much around... A thought to plan better strategies... I strongly disagree on this, but I am sure you must be a tough HR in your organization... Request you to please don't make this argument personal... be it for the views only... I am disagreeing with the management decisions, not yours...
I am happy that you work in some organization where might everything is perfect, but I used to work in an organization where skillful employees were hired but then sacked just because of the excessive manpower... I mean every single word I have written... Hope that no more clarifications would be required, and will appreciate if not taken personally...
Thanks
Shweta Jaitly
From India, Coimbatore
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Yes, I have mentioned and have acted accordingly, but I guess you have not got it right...
Cost center, Manpower projection, Budget Projector, Budget projector - Let me be specific this time as I know you again won't be able to understand...
By all the terms mentioned above, I meant proper manpower planning (which is done by HR only). By Cost Cutting Measures, I meant again cost cutting on the company's expenses such as stationery, printing cost, visiting cards, conveyance, traveling, etc. (Might be in your Mid-Sized Company these things won't, but in ours, we have major billings on these) and yes, putting the right and skilled people for the right job is HR responsibility. I understand that HR works according to the management decision but still...
As far as the Company's performance is concerned, it has to be measured in terms of projection of manpower, cost involved in it, and majorly the strategy... action plan we work on... This has to be done before sanctioning the manpower with the assumptions on what would be the recruitment cost and what would be the risk involved if not able to meet up with the deadlines...
In fact, if I think you haven't read my reply on your post, I have clearly stated that I am not blaming Companies for that... It is just an issue on why to hire people when really not needed... How can the Management of any company who thinks that be so mean?
If somebody is not performing, then Firing makes sense, but just because management thought they will make it but unfortunately didn't... doesn't make sense to fire anybody... I agree that what if employees break the bond or leave the company... in that case, my friend HR does take hard action - Legal... and also I am not pulling the string too long, I was replying to your specific Queries...
This is about the management not about you and me... it would be appreciated if this can be stopped here as we can't change other's mindset... might be with you it's okay, but personally with me, it's not... There should be a valid reason for the sacking of any employee... Excess manpower indicates bad strategies (if not required)...
You are being tough on this, but as an employee, if your management will fire you without giving the proper reason, then you will understand the real pain of people who go through this... There are lots of employees who are equally talented but are victims of this new management funda...
I am again mentioning this not against HR, but this is just a thought to improvise the things if happening much around... A thought to plan better strategies... I strongly disagree on this, but I am sure you must be a tough HR in your organization... Request you to please don't make this argument personal... be it for the views only... I am disagreeing with the management decisions, not yours...
I am happy that you work in some organization where might everything is perfect, but I used to work in an organization where skillful employees were hired but then sacked just because of the excessive manpower... I mean every single word I have written... Hope that no more clarifications would be required, and will appreciate if not taken personally...
Thanks
Shweta Jaitly
From India, Coimbatore
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