Hi Ms. George,
I can imagine your feelings while dealing with your people. The method of imposing monetary penalties for matters related to discipline cannot be justified. However, in my view, a few behavioral training sessions will surely bring about a change in the habits of people. You can also suggest creating Single Points of Contact (SPOCs) in each department who can assist HR in maintaining discipline in the organization.
Furthermore, in my view, your organization seems to be more focused on Personnel Management rather than Human Resources Management. As an HR professional, you need to upgrade yourself as a change agent.
All the best,
From India, Jaipur
9I can imagine your feelings while dealing with your people. The method of imposing monetary penalties for matters related to discipline cannot be justified. However, in my view, a few behavioral training sessions will surely bring about a change in the habits of people. You can also suggest creating Single Points of Contact (SPOCs) in each department who can assist HR in maintaining discipline in the organization.
Furthermore, in my view, your organization seems to be more focused on Personnel Management rather than Human Resources Management. As an HR professional, you need to upgrade yourself as a change agent.
All the best,
From India, Jaipur
Dear Ms. George,
This is completely unethical, and we can say the management is not keen on enhancing the productivity of employees. Managing people is completely responsible for the management as well as the HR Dept's responsibility, and that should be a mutual benefit too.
1. As for the mobile ringing issue, if it affects the required productivity (overall objective) or is affecting the co-workers' productivity, you have to take necessary action for this. If the management just wants to punish the employees, they can fine the guilty. If the management really wants to solve the issue and expects better productivity from the employees, you (management) have to educate the employees with the proper guidance and show them in a smarter way to explain that it would increase their productivity.
2. The other issues like leaving papers and forgetting papers on the table are not a big issue provided the employees are working within a professional culture. If the employees are not working within a professional culture, ultimately, that would be the HR Dept's blunder.
3. Deducting salary is in no way ethical. Whatever mistakes employees make, if they are not following the company's policy, straight away terminate them or educate them with non-monetary terms. Don't punish them by deducting salary and such. If the employer does so, employees won't be mentally fit to work for the company. The HR Dept is completely responsible for communicating the company's policies to new employees. It is not easy to change the new employee while other employees were following these practices. Changes can be made gradually.
I have made some assumptions. If you provide the exact facts, I will try my best to sort out your issue.
From India, Madras
This is completely unethical, and we can say the management is not keen on enhancing the productivity of employees. Managing people is completely responsible for the management as well as the HR Dept's responsibility, and that should be a mutual benefit too.
1. As for the mobile ringing issue, if it affects the required productivity (overall objective) or is affecting the co-workers' productivity, you have to take necessary action for this. If the management just wants to punish the employees, they can fine the guilty. If the management really wants to solve the issue and expects better productivity from the employees, you (management) have to educate the employees with the proper guidance and show them in a smarter way to explain that it would increase their productivity.
2. The other issues like leaving papers and forgetting papers on the table are not a big issue provided the employees are working within a professional culture. If the employees are not working within a professional culture, ultimately, that would be the HR Dept's blunder.
3. Deducting salary is in no way ethical. Whatever mistakes employees make, if they are not following the company's policy, straight away terminate them or educate them with non-monetary terms. Don't punish them by deducting salary and such. If the employer does so, employees won't be mentally fit to work for the company. The HR Dept is completely responsible for communicating the company's policies to new employees. It is not easy to change the new employee while other employees were following these practices. Changes can be made gradually.
I have made some assumptions. If you provide the exact facts, I will try my best to sort out your issue.
From India, Madras
According to me, this is completely unethical. For such kind of a small issue, an employer cannot deduct five hundred from anyone's salary. Just suppose that a peon forgets to switch off the fan or lights; then deducting this amount from a poor's salary is really pathetic. You must raise your voice against it.
From India, Delhi
From India, Delhi
Dear Ms. George,
In this situation, I believe your management can take corrective action rather than resorting to punishment. Offering a small incentive to employees who do not engage in activities such as using their mobile phones during office hours, entering others' cabins without permission, accessing restricted areas, leaving papers on tables after office hours, and forgetting to switch off lights could be beneficial. This approach would not only motivate your employees but also contribute to better employee relations.
Whether the incentive is financial or non-financial, it can enhance the company's image among employees. They may perceive that the company values increasing their salaries rather than implementing deductions.
Thank you.
From Sri Lanka
In this situation, I believe your management can take corrective action rather than resorting to punishment. Offering a small incentive to employees who do not engage in activities such as using their mobile phones during office hours, entering others' cabins without permission, accessing restricted areas, leaving papers on tables after office hours, and forgetting to switch off lights could be beneficial. This approach would not only motivate your employees but also contribute to better employee relations.
Whether the incentive is financial or non-financial, it can enhance the company's image among employees. They may perceive that the company values increasing their salaries rather than implementing deductions.
Thank you.
From Sri Lanka
I would agree with V. Balaji's views. Basically, he has mentioned what I mentioned earlier, but in a simpler way, I should say. I would suggest that before jumping to conclusions or making judgments based on everyone's views, Ms. George should first look at the issue from different perspectives.
Regards,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
Regards,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
Dear George,
In today's high-competition environment, we have to adhere to the company's secrecy policy. Leaving papers on the table may expose very confidential data. Turning off the light should become a habit, and this can be achieved either through self-discipline or by enforcing rules. If employees maintain self-discipline, there will be no need for rules. Rules are established based on past experiences. I would also like to mention that liberty is like elastic - the more you stretch it, the more it expands, but eventually, it loses its characteristics.
Managing over 10,000 employees is no easy task, especially when self-discipline is lacking in a group setting. The military serves as an excellent example of strict adherence to rules, highlighting the necessity of discipline in an organization. Rules are implemented to create a conducive work environment; otherwise, chaos akin to a jungle would prevail.
All employees must adhere to the rules diligently. Taking the example of traffic regulations, without penalties for violations, accidents would occur frequently. The fear of financial loss ensures compliance with traffic laws.
Thanks for the replies. I agree with Capable. We are facing a high attrition rate, and currently, my focus is primarily on recruitment. Unfortunately, none of our employees seem content. Our organization is substantial, with over 10,000 laborers and 500+ professional staff, leading to a high turnover rate among the staff. Despite my attempts to address these issues with our chairman as a member of management, the outcome was unfavorable. He accused me of going against company policies.
As mentioned by Mr. Riyaz, our employees harbor a negative attitude towards management, yet they remain silent due to the fear of immediate termination. While I feel demotivated, as an HR professional, I must stay positive. With only two years of experience, all within this company, I find myself questioning the authenticity of my HR role. Should I continue my career with this company?
Best,
Ms. George
From Saudi Arabia, Jiddah
In today's high-competition environment, we have to adhere to the company's secrecy policy. Leaving papers on the table may expose very confidential data. Turning off the light should become a habit, and this can be achieved either through self-discipline or by enforcing rules. If employees maintain self-discipline, there will be no need for rules. Rules are established based on past experiences. I would also like to mention that liberty is like elastic - the more you stretch it, the more it expands, but eventually, it loses its characteristics.
Managing over 10,000 employees is no easy task, especially when self-discipline is lacking in a group setting. The military serves as an excellent example of strict adherence to rules, highlighting the necessity of discipline in an organization. Rules are implemented to create a conducive work environment; otherwise, chaos akin to a jungle would prevail.
All employees must adhere to the rules diligently. Taking the example of traffic regulations, without penalties for violations, accidents would occur frequently. The fear of financial loss ensures compliance with traffic laws.
Thanks for the replies. I agree with Capable. We are facing a high attrition rate, and currently, my focus is primarily on recruitment. Unfortunately, none of our employees seem content. Our organization is substantial, with over 10,000 laborers and 500+ professional staff, leading to a high turnover rate among the staff. Despite my attempts to address these issues with our chairman as a member of management, the outcome was unfavorable. He accused me of going against company policies.
As mentioned by Mr. Riyaz, our employees harbor a negative attitude towards management, yet they remain silent due to the fear of immediate termination. While I feel demotivated, as an HR professional, I must stay positive. With only two years of experience, all within this company, I find myself questioning the authenticity of my HR role. Should I continue my career with this company?
Best,
Ms. George
From Saudi Arabia, Jiddah
Dear Friend , If you are at manager position what you have done. To control 10 people is very difficult.and if u want to control 10000+ then think
From Saudi Arabia, Jiddah
From Saudi Arabia, Jiddah
Dear Ms. George,
Don't be frustrated. You will be caught between management and employees most of the time, and it is a thankless job. But a few tips may help you.
1. In your pay packet, try to introduce an earning head for Work Area Upkeep and Maintenance and inform all employees that they will not earn this if any of the conditions mentioned by you are not fulfilled (instead of punishing them for each misconduct).
2. If mobile phones are banned at the security point itself, why will mobile phones ring inside the office? You need to ensure that you have a good telephone/intercom network inside the office with a paging system (public address system to inform employees about a call when they are not at the work spot).
3. But I observe that each point that you have mentioned has some value:
a. Not switching off lights leads to wastage of energy and additional electricity charges that do not add value.
b. Moving to a different floor encourages chatting, which affects not only the concerned employee but also the person with whom they are chatting.
c. Leaving papers on the desk can lead to the leaking of confidential information.
You can also try to introduce 5S practices (Seiri, Seiton, Seiso, Seiketsu, and Shitsuke) to keep the workplace clean. Conduct audits, tabulate scores, announce scores on notice boards, introduce a banner indicating the best work station, best department, etc., and give away awards to employees (positive reinforcement rather than negative reinforcement).
When you reward employees for maintaining and punish employees (work area incentive cut) for misconduct, you will find a balance, and your attrition rate will decrease drastically.
ALL THE VERY BEST!!!
M.V. KANNAN
From India, Madras
Don't be frustrated. You will be caught between management and employees most of the time, and it is a thankless job. But a few tips may help you.
1. In your pay packet, try to introduce an earning head for Work Area Upkeep and Maintenance and inform all employees that they will not earn this if any of the conditions mentioned by you are not fulfilled (instead of punishing them for each misconduct).
2. If mobile phones are banned at the security point itself, why will mobile phones ring inside the office? You need to ensure that you have a good telephone/intercom network inside the office with a paging system (public address system to inform employees about a call when they are not at the work spot).
3. But I observe that each point that you have mentioned has some value:
a. Not switching off lights leads to wastage of energy and additional electricity charges that do not add value.
b. Moving to a different floor encourages chatting, which affects not only the concerned employee but also the person with whom they are chatting.
c. Leaving papers on the desk can lead to the leaking of confidential information.
You can also try to introduce 5S practices (Seiri, Seiton, Seiso, Seiketsu, and Shitsuke) to keep the workplace clean. Conduct audits, tabulate scores, announce scores on notice boards, introduce a banner indicating the best work station, best department, etc., and give away awards to employees (positive reinforcement rather than negative reinforcement).
When you reward employees for maintaining and punish employees (work area incentive cut) for misconduct, you will find a balance, and your attrition rate will decrease drastically.
ALL THE VERY BEST!!!
M.V. KANNAN
From India, Madras
It is easier to resolve such issues from a process perspective rather than from a people perspective. As someone else mentioned, look at the processes involved and make sure that they are well-constructed and there is no reason for these behaviors. Include checklists so that it becomes a habit to check if lights are on, for example. Ask the people involved to write the process - they will feel included and in charge of their work. Publish these processes and name the Process Owners. You will probably find that penalties will not be needed. Also, analyze the reasons for people's behavior. Maybe some of it makes sense and some "rules" need to be changed. Good luck!
From United Arab Emirates, Dubai
From United Arab Emirates, Dubai
Hi George,
It's really very hard to say about ethics; most of the time, it's a matter of perception. However, since you are very fresh in the industry, I suggest you should be positive. Most of the time, when you walk up to a person and directly speak up against a policy, you will not be taken in a positive sense. I suggest you try to find out when and how this particular policy came into effect. What was the situation before the policy came into force?
Also, you should try to convince the people to reduce the number of misconducts, and you could help them by providing signs on the walls or maybe a screensaver on the PC, etc. You could also try to convince the management about giving a warning letter, then a show-cause notice, and after these two, if a person still continues these acts, you could suggest a fine. I think most people won't do it after the warning letter.
It was very nice to find that being in HR, you have planned to do something about the situation.
Best of luck.
Regards,
A.V.
From India, Mumbai
It's really very hard to say about ethics; most of the time, it's a matter of perception. However, since you are very fresh in the industry, I suggest you should be positive. Most of the time, when you walk up to a person and directly speak up against a policy, you will not be taken in a positive sense. I suggest you try to find out when and how this particular policy came into effect. What was the situation before the policy came into force?
Also, you should try to convince the people to reduce the number of misconducts, and you could help them by providing signs on the walls or maybe a screensaver on the PC, etc. You could also try to convince the management about giving a warning letter, then a show-cause notice, and after these two, if a person still continues these acts, you could suggest a fine. I think most people won't do it after the warning letter.
It was very nice to find that being in HR, you have planned to do something about the situation.
Best of luck.
Regards,
A.V.
From India, Mumbai
Looking for something specific? - Join & Be Part Of Our Community and get connected with the right people who can help. Our AI-powered platform provides real-time fact-checking, peer-reviewed insights, and a vast historical knowledge base to support your search.
