Dear Seniors,
There is a female employee who joined us 5 months ago. She is requesting a 45-day leave for her marriage in the month of November. We do not have a policy for marriage leave; we only provide 29 leaves annually. We are unsure of what to do in this situation. We are hesitant to grant her leave for such an extended period, especially given our concern that she may leave the company after her marriage, as her husband is abroad and she has already applied for a visa.
Please suggest what actions we should take in this matter.
Regards,
Durga
From India, Delhi
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23There is a female employee who joined us 5 months ago. She is requesting a 45-day leave for her marriage in the month of November. We do not have a policy for marriage leave; we only provide 29 leaves annually. We are unsure of what to do in this situation. We are hesitant to grant her leave for such an extended period, especially given our concern that she may leave the company after her marriage, as her husband is abroad and she has already applied for a visa.
Please suggest what actions we should take in this matter.
Regards,
Durga
From India, Delhi
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When there is no policy for marriage leave, deduct the number of leave days she would take from the available leave balance. If the result is negative, consider it as Leave Without Pay (LOP). A 45-day absence is an extended period; therefore, the approval of more than 15 days of leave should not be granted. If the employee persists in requesting more days off, it may be necessary to discuss the option of resignation, particularly if there are concerns about her commitment to the job post-marriage.
From India, New Delhi
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From India, New Delhi
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Well, going on leave for 45 days is too much. The concerned manager may want to ask her to reduce by a few days.
The person has joined only 5 months ago, which means that she is not entitled to all 29 days of paid leave. This will be a pro-rata calculation. Deduct the paid leaves she is entitled to, and the remaining shall be leave without pay. Her salary shall be deducted for the number of LWPs.
As for going abroad, you cannot force her to stay back if she wants to quit and join him. :)
Regards,
Nikita
From India, Pune
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The person has joined only 5 months ago, which means that she is not entitled to all 29 days of paid leave. This will be a pro-rata calculation. Deduct the paid leaves she is entitled to, and the remaining shall be leave without pay. Her salary shall be deducted for the number of LWPs.
As for going abroad, you cannot force her to stay back if she wants to quit and join him. :)
Regards,
Nikita
From India, Pune
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If an employee who has not completed 6 months in a company is asking for 45 days leave, then HR should reject that leave application for 45 days and ask her to reduce the number of leaves. If she doesn't cut down leaves, then the company can take any disciplinary action/termination against her for going on unauthorized leave. Companies should be strict with probationers when it comes to leave.
From India, Delhi
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From India, Delhi
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Hi everyone,
I read with great interest all replies, but to my dismay, I am not convinced with two aspects:
1. Our administrative system may not permit HR Executives to approve something beyond defined company norms, and employees do not ask for undue favors. We are dealing with absence and dependency on employees.
2. Employees are human beings and have all the right to have the freedom to discharge their social responsibilities. For women, marriage and maternity are two important issues in life. A man can curb his socializing activities and customs in spare time, but not women in Indian society.
You could show sympathy towards your employees and request her to reduce the leave period. If not possible, you can further ask the same employee to help you in recruiting someone whom she knows is willing to work temporarily. The replacement should be trained by her before proceeding on leave in her place as a temporary vacancy. Even if she does not return after the leave period, you have a substitute to fill this temporary vacancy permanently.
As HR professionals, we should not be so harsh on our employees. If you adopt this method, you and your company will be appreciated as an employee-friendly brand and an employer of choice. Apply the same principle to support employees in the case of maternity and recommend such solutions to the management with some special initiatives.
At times, we in India act like typical, conservative, old-fashioned personnel and administrative managers who used to suppress workmen with these tendencies, which still continue. Our Indian managements are very cynical and skeptical about their employees regarding their discipline and absenteeism tendencies. Our Indian managements don't pay extra money for hard work, nor do they honestly reward employees for working beyond normal working hours. However, our Indian employees do not mind overstaying in the office if required. We should always cite these good examples of our employees to defend them to the management.
To be frank and without any prejudice towards our employees and management, we must promote a good healthy atmosphere. People respond positively if organizations treat their employees well. It will become a better place in the world to work, and people will enjoy working in such organizations.
We must show respect to our employees first because this is a prime requirement for the success of HR professionals.
Regards,
Sawant
From Saudi Arabia
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I read with great interest all replies, but to my dismay, I am not convinced with two aspects:
1. Our administrative system may not permit HR Executives to approve something beyond defined company norms, and employees do not ask for undue favors. We are dealing with absence and dependency on employees.
2. Employees are human beings and have all the right to have the freedom to discharge their social responsibilities. For women, marriage and maternity are two important issues in life. A man can curb his socializing activities and customs in spare time, but not women in Indian society.
You could show sympathy towards your employees and request her to reduce the leave period. If not possible, you can further ask the same employee to help you in recruiting someone whom she knows is willing to work temporarily. The replacement should be trained by her before proceeding on leave in her place as a temporary vacancy. Even if she does not return after the leave period, you have a substitute to fill this temporary vacancy permanently.
As HR professionals, we should not be so harsh on our employees. If you adopt this method, you and your company will be appreciated as an employee-friendly brand and an employer of choice. Apply the same principle to support employees in the case of maternity and recommend such solutions to the management with some special initiatives.
At times, we in India act like typical, conservative, old-fashioned personnel and administrative managers who used to suppress workmen with these tendencies, which still continue. Our Indian managements are very cynical and skeptical about their employees regarding their discipline and absenteeism tendencies. Our Indian managements don't pay extra money for hard work, nor do they honestly reward employees for working beyond normal working hours. However, our Indian employees do not mind overstaying in the office if required. We should always cite these good examples of our employees to defend them to the management.
To be frank and without any prejudice towards our employees and management, we must promote a good healthy atmosphere. People respond positively if organizations treat their employees well. It will become a better place in the world to work, and people will enjoy working in such organizations.
We must show respect to our employees first because this is a prime requirement for the success of HR professionals.
Regards,
Sawant
From Saudi Arabia
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HAHAHA
Durga, you're doomed; that employee will leave you soon. You are thinking of refusing her leave and hurting her personal sentiments. If an employee wants leave, give it as Leave Without Pay (LOP). Don't think you are the police, because even if you refuse her application, you can't stop her from taking leave. She will take leave as she pleases, and after marriage, she might even go abroad. Even if you are unmarried, and she gets married and goes abroad, will your HR reject your leave?
Dear HR professionals, let's use our emotions with a mix of common sense while dealing with such issues. Simply rejecting and giving a warning on paper will be of no use. I SAY IT TODAY, AND TOMORROW YOU WILL REALIZE IT.
Regards
From India, Pune
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Durga, you're doomed; that employee will leave you soon. You are thinking of refusing her leave and hurting her personal sentiments. If an employee wants leave, give it as Leave Without Pay (LOP). Don't think you are the police, because even if you refuse her application, you can't stop her from taking leave. She will take leave as she pleases, and after marriage, she might even go abroad. Even if you are unmarried, and she gets married and goes abroad, will your HR reject your leave?
Dear HR professionals, let's use our emotions with a mix of common sense while dealing with such issues. Simply rejecting and giving a warning on paper will be of no use. I SAY IT TODAY, AND TOMORROW YOU WILL REALIZE IT.
Regards
From India, Pune
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Hi Chandru,
Thank you for your message. Below is the corrected version of your text:
Very simple. Adjust all her available leave days on hand. Later for the shortfall, apply loss of pay. A 45-day period is a bit too high. At the most, she can avail two weeks that include the wedding, post-wedding rituals, honeymoon, and settling in at the new home.
Else interview appropriate candidates and keep the shortlisted ones ready. Once her results are known, the newcomers can be inducted. Please bear in mind that this lady may go on maternity leave very soon. Haha...
Regards, Chandru Manager-HR, Chennai
If you have any further questions or need more assistance, feel free to ask.
Best regards, [Your Name] [Your Position]
From India, Madras
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Thank you for your message. Below is the corrected version of your text:
Very simple. Adjust all her available leave days on hand. Later for the shortfall, apply loss of pay. A 45-day period is a bit too high. At the most, she can avail two weeks that include the wedding, post-wedding rituals, honeymoon, and settling in at the new home.
Else interview appropriate candidates and keep the shortlisted ones ready. Once her results are known, the newcomers can be inducted. Please bear in mind that this lady may go on maternity leave very soon. Haha...
Regards, Chandru Manager-HR, Chennai
If you have any further questions or need more assistance, feel free to ask.
Best regards, [Your Name] [Your Position]
From India, Madras
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Dear All,
The issue can be approached from 2 angles:
1. From the point of view of leave rules.
"Leave is not a matter of right. It cannot be availed unless approved. Each type of leave has a specific purpose and reasonable time frame. If an employee has no adequate leave to his/her credit, leave without pay can be permitted at the discretion of the sanctioning authority. Leave can be refused on grounds of exigency of work. Leave cannot be refused on grounds of inadequacy of leave at credit, etc."
2. From the point of view of Talent Management:
"Do you really look forward to that employee continuing in your organization? Do you consider her as an asset/valuable employee? Do you think the grant of leave-not-due would encourage her to stay with you? If so, go ahead and grant leave. Granting leave is a small decision point if you consider talent retention. Organizations are bending over backwards to please valuable employees."
"Do you think disregarding your decision on granting leave, she would quit, or she has not been able to prove her worth earlier, or it is not clear if her continuance would add value, or you are looking for opportunities to help her in a better placement elsewhere? This is a good opportunity. Encourage her to quit or precipitate the matter."
I feel bringing in the human angle is a bit misplaced in this case, as asking for 45 days leave for marriage is unheard of these days. Human/emotional feelings are reserved for instances where employees need some kind of support when they are feeling low.
One primary concern or point of reference is the work demands of the organization.
Goodbye,
Ks Murthy
From India, Changanacheri
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The issue can be approached from 2 angles:
1. From the point of view of leave rules.
"Leave is not a matter of right. It cannot be availed unless approved. Each type of leave has a specific purpose and reasonable time frame. If an employee has no adequate leave to his/her credit, leave without pay can be permitted at the discretion of the sanctioning authority. Leave can be refused on grounds of exigency of work. Leave cannot be refused on grounds of inadequacy of leave at credit, etc."
2. From the point of view of Talent Management:
"Do you really look forward to that employee continuing in your organization? Do you consider her as an asset/valuable employee? Do you think the grant of leave-not-due would encourage her to stay with you? If so, go ahead and grant leave. Granting leave is a small decision point if you consider talent retention. Organizations are bending over backwards to please valuable employees."
"Do you think disregarding your decision on granting leave, she would quit, or she has not been able to prove her worth earlier, or it is not clear if her continuance would add value, or you are looking for opportunities to help her in a better placement elsewhere? This is a good opportunity. Encourage her to quit or precipitate the matter."
I feel bringing in the human angle is a bit misplaced in this case, as asking for 45 days leave for marriage is unheard of these days. Human/emotional feelings are reserved for instances where employees need some kind of support when they are feeling low.
One primary concern or point of reference is the work demands of the organization.
Goodbye,
Ks Murthy
From India, Changanacheri
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Marriage leave provides only five days. If she needs 45 days of leave, it will count as a loss of pay for 40 days. We provide benefits for enjoyment, not for playing. If there is no seriousness in the work procedure, the employee will become a headache for the company.
From United Arab Emirates, Dubai
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From United Arab Emirates, Dubai
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‘He who amongst you sees something abominable should modify it with the help of his hand;
and if he has not strength enough to do that, then he should do it with his tongue;
and if he has not strength enough to do even that, then he should (at least abhor it) from his heart; and that is the least of faith.”
From Saudi Arabia
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and if he has not strength enough to do that, then he should do it with his tongue;
and if he has not strength enough to do even that, then he should (at least abhor it) from his heart; and that is the least of faith.”
From Saudi Arabia
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Jack and Max are walking from a religious service. Jack wonders whether it would be all right to smoke while praying.
Max replies, "Why don't you ask the Priest?"
So Jack goes up to the Priest and asks, "Father, may I smoke while I pray?"
The Priest replies, "No, my son, you may not. That's utter disrespect to our religion."
Jack goes back to his friend and tells him what the good Priest told him.
Max says,
From Saudi Arabia
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Max replies, "Why don't you ask the Priest?"
So Jack goes up to the Priest and asks, "Father, may I smoke while I pray?"
The Priest replies, "No, my son, you may not. That's utter disrespect to our religion."
Jack goes back to his friend and tells him what the good Priest told him.
Max says,
From Saudi Arabia
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Hey Sawant,
We can speak tons on emotions and stuff towards our employees, but when it comes to the organization, only a set of rules and policies are considered. No organization would permit an employee who is still in probation to take 45 days of leave, and that too with no guarantee of joining back. Management only knows about the profit you make from an employee, and at the end of the day, we are all accountable for every penny we shell out. We can amend rules but not to the extent of someone pointing out favors for a particular employee... Think Practical.
From India, New Delhi
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We can speak tons on emotions and stuff towards our employees, but when it comes to the organization, only a set of rules and policies are considered. No organization would permit an employee who is still in probation to take 45 days of leave, and that too with no guarantee of joining back. Management only knows about the profit you make from an employee, and at the end of the day, we are all accountable for every penny we shell out. We can amend rules but not to the extent of someone pointing out favors for a particular employee... Think Practical.
From India, New Delhi
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Hi Pratime,
Let me clear one misunderstanding that you are saving employers money or doing big favour to your job is not true. Because no monetary loss to employer is intended in applying leave for marriage because employer never pay more than due leave.
The issue is intention of employee whethre to cotinue or leave organization after marriage.
Lest have another angle to your view:
Everyone quotes stereo type legal and human relation angles although its known fact to every one of us but that doesn’t makes sense. All HR or P&A do same things repeatedly taking shelter of rules and regulations.
But this is not out of box thinking we need to analyses what harm employee can cause to employer?
In this case there is no harm, because HR is not going to pay more than due leave accumulated and employee will be on unpaid leave for remaining period.
If we believe in retention is best strategy we may allow employees to take 45 days leave without pay nothing harms both the parties. And even if employee left the organization heaven will not fall.
Because, even if you reject leave he/she if don’t want to continue will never comeback then what option you have except search another replacement after 45 days instead of this better take preventive measure.
If Employee requesting for 45 days for marriage.
Marriage can be confirmed from the invitation cards to establish guaniness of leave.
Once it is establish employee marrying then he/she will obviously apply for leave. I do agree that 45 days leave is too long but no employee is indispensable and no rocket science is being applied on any jobs which no one else other than him or her cannot do.
This will provide an opportunity to new comer for on the job training and if incase employee does not turn back after marriage for possible replacement without affecting work.
Prevention is better than cure……………….
Regards
Sawant
From Saudi Arabia
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Let me clear one misunderstanding that you are saving employers money or doing big favour to your job is not true. Because no monetary loss to employer is intended in applying leave for marriage because employer never pay more than due leave.
The issue is intention of employee whethre to cotinue or leave organization after marriage.
Lest have another angle to your view:
Everyone quotes stereo type legal and human relation angles although its known fact to every one of us but that doesn’t makes sense. All HR or P&A do same things repeatedly taking shelter of rules and regulations.
But this is not out of box thinking we need to analyses what harm employee can cause to employer?
In this case there is no harm, because HR is not going to pay more than due leave accumulated and employee will be on unpaid leave for remaining period.
If we believe in retention is best strategy we may allow employees to take 45 days leave without pay nothing harms both the parties. And even if employee left the organization heaven will not fall.
Because, even if you reject leave he/she if don’t want to continue will never comeback then what option you have except search another replacement after 45 days instead of this better take preventive measure.
If Employee requesting for 45 days for marriage.
Marriage can be confirmed from the invitation cards to establish guaniness of leave.
Once it is establish employee marrying then he/she will obviously apply for leave. I do agree that 45 days leave is too long but no employee is indispensable and no rocket science is being applied on any jobs which no one else other than him or her cannot do.
This will provide an opportunity to new comer for on the job training and if incase employee does not turn back after marriage for possible replacement without affecting work.
Prevention is better than cure……………….
Regards
Sawant
From Saudi Arabia
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Hi Pratima,
Let me clear one misunderstanding that you are saving employers money or doing big favour to your job is not true. Because no monetary loss to employer is intended in applying leave for marriage because employer never pay more than due leave.
The issue is intention of employee whethre to cotinue or leave organization after marriage.
Lest have another angle to your view:
Everyone quotes stereo type legal and human relation angles although its known fact to every one of us but that doesn’t makes sense. All HR or P&A do same things repeatedly taking shelter of rules and regulations.
But this is not out of box thinking we need to analyses what harm employee can cause to employer?
In this case there is no harm, because HR is not going to pay more than due leave accumulated and employee will be on unpaid leave for remaining period.
If we believe in retention is best strategy we may allow employees to take 45 days leave without pay nothing harms both the parties. And even if employee left the organization heaven will not fall.
Because, even if you reject leave he/she if don’t want to continue will never comeback then what option you have except search another replacement after 45 days instead of this better take preventive measure.
If Employee requesting for 45 days for marriage.
Marriage can be confirmed from the invitation cards to establish guaniness of leave.
Once it is establish employee marrying then he/she will obviously apply for leave. I do agree that 45 days leave is too long but no employee is indispensable and no rocket science is being applied on any jobs which no one else other than him or her cannot do.
This will provide an opportunity to new comer for on the job training and if incase employee does not turn back after marriage for possible replacement without affecting work.
Prevention is better than cure……………….
Regards
Sawant
From Saudi Arabia
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Let me clear one misunderstanding that you are saving employers money or doing big favour to your job is not true. Because no monetary loss to employer is intended in applying leave for marriage because employer never pay more than due leave.
The issue is intention of employee whethre to cotinue or leave organization after marriage.
Lest have another angle to your view:
Everyone quotes stereo type legal and human relation angles although its known fact to every one of us but that doesn’t makes sense. All HR or P&A do same things repeatedly taking shelter of rules and regulations.
But this is not out of box thinking we need to analyses what harm employee can cause to employer?
In this case there is no harm, because HR is not going to pay more than due leave accumulated and employee will be on unpaid leave for remaining period.
If we believe in retention is best strategy we may allow employees to take 45 days leave without pay nothing harms both the parties. And even if employee left the organization heaven will not fall.
Because, even if you reject leave he/she if don’t want to continue will never comeback then what option you have except search another replacement after 45 days instead of this better take preventive measure.
If Employee requesting for 45 days for marriage.
Marriage can be confirmed from the invitation cards to establish guaniness of leave.
Once it is establish employee marrying then he/she will obviously apply for leave. I do agree that 45 days leave is too long but no employee is indispensable and no rocket science is being applied on any jobs which no one else other than him or her cannot do.
This will provide an opportunity to new comer for on the job training and if incase employee does not turn back after marriage for possible replacement without affecting work.
Prevention is better than cure……………….
Regards
Sawant
From Saudi Arabia
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Hi Sawant,
If we sanction 45 days of leave for an employee, who will do her work in her absence? I can sanction her 45 days of leave as an HR, but when I put myself in as a Reporting Manager, then obviously my answer would be NO. We recruit people and allot them their KRAs not for them to go on leave for 45 days. If a department can manage the workload for 45 days in her absence, then I strongly feel she is not required to come back at all.
Hey, don't think that I am being rude. It's just that rules are rules. When we start bending the rules for one, then that would become a practice. Tomorrow another employee would follow her footsteps. If I say no to them, then we are unnecessarily giving way to politics and agitation.
In case of emergencies, of course, they can go on LOP, but not on pleasure trips. I strongly disagree. Of course, the same applies to me too.
From India, New Delhi
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If we sanction 45 days of leave for an employee, who will do her work in her absence? I can sanction her 45 days of leave as an HR, but when I put myself in as a Reporting Manager, then obviously my answer would be NO. We recruit people and allot them their KRAs not for them to go on leave for 45 days. If a department can manage the workload for 45 days in her absence, then I strongly feel she is not required to come back at all.
Hey, don't think that I am being rude. It's just that rules are rules. When we start bending the rules for one, then that would become a practice. Tomorrow another employee would follow her footsteps. If I say no to them, then we are unnecessarily giving way to politics and agitation.
In case of emergencies, of course, they can go on LOP, but not on pleasure trips. I strongly disagree. Of course, the same applies to me too.
From India, New Delhi
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So DON'T THINK INHUMAN, I DOUBT YOU'RE AN HR PERSON. Suppose an employee meets with an accident and needs to take rest for two months, what will you do? Go to the hospital and give them a termination letter? Will you manage without them for two months? The same goes for marriage. If you think of marriage as a pleasure trip, that's your thinking, but not everyone sees it that way. People like you don't know what to say, just unfit as humans.
Though I may sound harsh, I pity the employees of your organization. They must be really being tortured by you.
From India, Pune
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Though I may sound harsh, I pity the employees of your organization. They must be really being tortured by you.
From India, Pune
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Ravi,
So in your organization, do you approve 45 days as marriage leave for every employee? It's nice to discuss approval in forums, but in reality, I am sure you will not follow through with what you have mentioned. That is practically not possible. If you did follow through, you would always be answerable to the higher officials and it would have a negative impact on other employees.
If you believe you are too emotional towards your employees, then you are not suited to be in HR when you can't balance both your policies and employees. I specifically mentioned in my previous message that emergencies are always exceptional. I also know how to speak rudely about you, but I know my limits in how to communicate with others. You should also be mindful of your words. I see no reason to argue with you, insult you, or find faults in my profession. I truly feel sorry for you because you can't control your words. I wonder...?
From India, New Delhi
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So in your organization, do you approve 45 days as marriage leave for every employee? It's nice to discuss approval in forums, but in reality, I am sure you will not follow through with what you have mentioned. That is practically not possible. If you did follow through, you would always be answerable to the higher officials and it would have a negative impact on other employees.
If you believe you are too emotional towards your employees, then you are not suited to be in HR when you can't balance both your policies and employees. I specifically mentioned in my previous message that emergencies are always exceptional. I also know how to speak rudely about you, but I know my limits in how to communicate with others. You should also be mindful of your words. I see no reason to argue with you, insult you, or find faults in my profession. I truly feel sorry for you because you can't control your words. I wonder...?
From India, New Delhi
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I have heard people going on 1-month leave for marriage, which is justifiable, but 45 days is too much. Try to convince her that her presence also matters in the office for work, and she should try to reduce it to 1 month maximum. Remember that you are encroaching and delving into the personal areas of the employees, which employees might find offensive. Therefore, you should be gentle and cautious while addressing this issue.
In human life, two things matter a lot: firstly, the career, and secondly, marriage. You are focusing on the latter, so approach her in a way that doesn't make her feel bad. Employees nowadays are very sensitive to certain issues, therefore, they need to be handled with care, and this is one of those situations where they might consider leaving if pressured.
From United Kingdom
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In human life, two things matter a lot: firstly, the career, and secondly, marriage. You are focusing on the latter, so approach her in a way that doesn't make her feel bad. Employees nowadays are very sensitive to certain issues, therefore, they need to be handled with care, and this is one of those situations where they might consider leaving if pressured.
From United Kingdom
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Hi Pratima,
There are good HR and well as bad HR practices.
If you take money factor this also can be explained how organization is looser on loosing employee with short tenure.
Any Employee who joins employment whether experienced or inexperienced takes time to get acquainted and customized with the organization. Although they do work every day but do not perform for initial settling period which may be varied from 3 months to 6 months until he starts contributing to the growth of organization. You never experience that from the first day of employee joining your profit margins increased or share value of your company shooting up and miracle starts happening right from the first day except something unusual happen in the market drivers.
So, Employee starts performing at the level where he is capable of influencing your company’s prospects and results only after establishing himself. There are very rare breed of employees who come from straight jacket fit into job profile from first day in certain professions which are not common.
You are dealing with average employee who takes minimum 3 to 6 months to reach that level of perfection, accuracy and efficiency. Once the employee has worked for more than six months don’t think he is liability but is an asset to the organization and your company has spend money on his/her initial settling period to customization and acquaintance. You are going lose that investment spend on building employees confidence to yield results. The day he is matured and prepared to perform, you are preparing for shunt him out for pity reason which is neighther an offence or misbehavior or indiscipline.
You are losing 6 months’ salary investment by your company and I would rather ask my HR Manager to resign first if he fails to understand the modern good HR practices. He should not promote bad HR practices if management is not vise of what is difference between good and bad HR practices.
As true HR professional, I cannot afford to lose my employee and insist management to retain as much as I can. All successful organizations inlast two decades from RELIANCE TO INFOTECH & WIPRO prosper on maximising employee retaintion rate and not attrition. More attirtion leads unstable organization.
With Regards
Sawant
From Saudi Arabia
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There are good HR and well as bad HR practices.
If you take money factor this also can be explained how organization is looser on loosing employee with short tenure.
Any Employee who joins employment whether experienced or inexperienced takes time to get acquainted and customized with the organization. Although they do work every day but do not perform for initial settling period which may be varied from 3 months to 6 months until he starts contributing to the growth of organization. You never experience that from the first day of employee joining your profit margins increased or share value of your company shooting up and miracle starts happening right from the first day except something unusual happen in the market drivers.
So, Employee starts performing at the level where he is capable of influencing your company’s prospects and results only after establishing himself. There are very rare breed of employees who come from straight jacket fit into job profile from first day in certain professions which are not common.
You are dealing with average employee who takes minimum 3 to 6 months to reach that level of perfection, accuracy and efficiency. Once the employee has worked for more than six months don’t think he is liability but is an asset to the organization and your company has spend money on his/her initial settling period to customization and acquaintance. You are going lose that investment spend on building employees confidence to yield results. The day he is matured and prepared to perform, you are preparing for shunt him out for pity reason which is neighther an offence or misbehavior or indiscipline.
You are losing 6 months’ salary investment by your company and I would rather ask my HR Manager to resign first if he fails to understand the modern good HR practices. He should not promote bad HR practices if management is not vise of what is difference between good and bad HR practices.
As true HR professional, I cannot afford to lose my employee and insist management to retain as much as I can. All successful organizations inlast two decades from RELIANCE TO INFOTECH & WIPRO prosper on maximising employee retaintion rate and not attrition. More attirtion leads unstable organization.
With Regards
Sawant
From Saudi Arabia
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Sawant,
I hope you won't take it as an argument. That was what I am also trying to say. The organization has invested so much in hiring an employee. It almost takes 6 months to have an employee trained and put them on a project full-fledged. As an HR person, I do agree with you that measures should always be taken for retaining employees, but a lady who is going to relocate after marriage abroad with her husband, then I don't really find any reason to take retention measures. After enjoying 45 days of marriage leave, she is going to come back and submit her resignation. Do you really think it is worth it? Let's say, as you said, I can even go ahead and sanction 45 days for her as marriage leave. After a couple of days, another person from the same team, who has been working for the organization for almost 2 years, applies for 2 months of marriage leave. What do you think is the right thing to do? He will just question me on one thing, "When I can sanction 45 days for a person who has worked for just 5 months, why can't I give 2 months of marriage leave to a person who has worked for more than two years?" Then I will be forced to sanction 2 months of marriage leave for him. Being an HR is not just about sanctioning leave. "Again and again, Sawant, I am telling you guys only one thing: I am not here to argue with you or to prove my point of view." Correct me if I am wrong. Good HR practices are to spread balance and satisfaction among employees but not to create politics.
No offense meant.
From India, New Delhi
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I hope you won't take it as an argument. That was what I am also trying to say. The organization has invested so much in hiring an employee. It almost takes 6 months to have an employee trained and put them on a project full-fledged. As an HR person, I do agree with you that measures should always be taken for retaining employees, but a lady who is going to relocate after marriage abroad with her husband, then I don't really find any reason to take retention measures. After enjoying 45 days of marriage leave, she is going to come back and submit her resignation. Do you really think it is worth it? Let's say, as you said, I can even go ahead and sanction 45 days for her as marriage leave. After a couple of days, another person from the same team, who has been working for the organization for almost 2 years, applies for 2 months of marriage leave. What do you think is the right thing to do? He will just question me on one thing, "When I can sanction 45 days for a person who has worked for just 5 months, why can't I give 2 months of marriage leave to a person who has worked for more than two years?" Then I will be forced to sanction 2 months of marriage leave for him. Being an HR is not just about sanctioning leave. "Again and again, Sawant, I am telling you guys only one thing: I am not here to argue with you or to prove my point of view." Correct me if I am wrong. Good HR practices are to spread balance and satisfaction among employees but not to create politics.
No offense meant.
From India, New Delhi
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Hi Pratima,
I appreciate your viewpoint. Actually, we do not anticipate that many will follow this as precedent because in organizations, there are some exceptional circumstances where HR has to make decisions in the best interest of the organization. These decisions are called out-of-policy decisions. There are exceptions where authority is vested at the director level to exercise such powers, which generally no one abuses because no one dares to take it as a right.
We make decisions within the black and white approved guidelines from management, but some decisions are situational and circumstantial, based on a judgmental approach where we ensure that the organization's interests are protected, creating a win-win proposition.
If you simultaneously recruit to replace her under her supervision before she proceeds on leave, the same may continue if your employee does not show up upon the expiry of leave.
Keep it up; you have many valid points we don't deny, but we also share our point of view, which ultimately leads to a healthy discussion.
Regards,
Sawant
From Saudi Arabia
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I appreciate your viewpoint. Actually, we do not anticipate that many will follow this as precedent because in organizations, there are some exceptional circumstances where HR has to make decisions in the best interest of the organization. These decisions are called out-of-policy decisions. There are exceptions where authority is vested at the director level to exercise such powers, which generally no one abuses because no one dares to take it as a right.
We make decisions within the black and white approved guidelines from management, but some decisions are situational and circumstantial, based on a judgmental approach where we ensure that the organization's interests are protected, creating a win-win proposition.
If you simultaneously recruit to replace her under her supervision before she proceeds on leave, the same may continue if your employee does not show up upon the expiry of leave.
Keep it up; you have many valid points we don't deny, but we also share our point of view, which ultimately leads to a healthy discussion.
Regards,
Sawant
From Saudi Arabia
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The best option from the employer's point of view is to ask her to cut down her leave by a few weeks. In case she insists on a 45-day leave, she can go on Leave Without Pay (LWP). I don't think she should be asked to leave just on these grounds. She needs to get married, and asking for a long leave is not a sufficient reason to terminate her.
From India, Gurgaon
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From India, Gurgaon
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So, in general, you HR professionals mean that employees should not take any leave at all. And you worry that by giving more leave to one employee, you fear that some other employees may demand more leave for their marriage. That's the funniest part of management I have heard. Perhaps such organizations should implement strict policies during recruitment and have employees sign a bond stating they will not marry, go on a honeymoon, or become parents for the duration of their employment with the company.
I actually feel proud of my organization, which in my emergency situation, granted me more than two months of leave, despite being involved in an important project. Thanks to my teammates who covered my responsibilities during that time. I appreciate the absence of HR personnel in my organization; otherwise, I might have been jobless by now if people like you were present.
From India, Pune
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I actually feel proud of my organization, which in my emergency situation, granted me more than two months of leave, despite being involved in an important project. Thanks to my teammates who covered my responsibilities during that time. I appreciate the absence of HR personnel in my organization; otherwise, I might have been jobless by now if people like you were present.
From India, Pune
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Hi Ravi,
I am really the last person who wishes to talk to you. You speak illogically. You don't have the discipline or knowledge to speak in a public forum. There is always a way to express your views. It's better to learn it.
From India, New Delhi
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I am really the last person who wishes to talk to you. You speak illogically. You don't have the discipline or knowledge to speak in a public forum. There is always a way to express your views. It's better to learn it.
From India, New Delhi
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I agree with Pratima. When there is no such policy for marriage in your organization, you need not think twice. Since she has not even completed her probation, I don't think any leave balance would be there in her account. You can sanction her leave without pay. After all, the organization is not for the interest of employees, but employees are for the organization. You can go ahead with the current policy.
From India, Mumbai
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From India, Mumbai
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Hi Pratima,
I really appreciate you. No doubt that you are a valuable and precious employee of your organization. You are in no way wrong at all. You really have a sense of communication and, besides considering the human aspect, you are fully conscious of your organizational responsibilities.
Congrats!
Deepa N.T
From India, Mumbai
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I really appreciate you. No doubt that you are a valuable and precious employee of your organization. You are in no way wrong at all. You really have a sense of communication and, besides considering the human aspect, you are fully conscious of your organizational responsibilities.
Congrats!
Deepa N.T
From India, Mumbai
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Dear All,
I feel that we are all trying our best to put the blame on the employee who has asked for leave. But before that, I would like to pose a question to the HR Executives of the concerned organization: how effective do they think their recruitment process is? How could they miss out on gathering information regarding the future plans and career goals of a newly recruited employee? The employee in question joined the organization just 5 months ago and suddenly comes up with this request. Don't you think it would have made sense for the HR Executives to inquire about marriage and other personal goals during the recruitment process? At least then, this situation could have been better planned for.
Now, I believe that what the HR heads need to do is to communicate with the concerned employee regarding the marriage plan. Why exactly is there a need for a 45-day leave? In today's busy world, 45 days for a female employee's marriage seems like a genuine request. We all work from 9 to 9, leaving little time for activities like shopping, financial planning, and attending various pre and post-wedding rituals. Once the authenticity of the request is verified, then an attempt can be made to determine if the employee is genuinely planning to relocate abroad or if these rumors about visas and such are false.
After a clear dialogue is established, only then can a proper decision be made regarding granting Leave Without Pay (LWP) or searching for a replacement for that employee.
Regards,
Dny Pdvl
From India, Ahmadabad
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I feel that we are all trying our best to put the blame on the employee who has asked for leave. But before that, I would like to pose a question to the HR Executives of the concerned organization: how effective do they think their recruitment process is? How could they miss out on gathering information regarding the future plans and career goals of a newly recruited employee? The employee in question joined the organization just 5 months ago and suddenly comes up with this request. Don't you think it would have made sense for the HR Executives to inquire about marriage and other personal goals during the recruitment process? At least then, this situation could have been better planned for.
Now, I believe that what the HR heads need to do is to communicate with the concerned employee regarding the marriage plan. Why exactly is there a need for a 45-day leave? In today's busy world, 45 days for a female employee's marriage seems like a genuine request. We all work from 9 to 9, leaving little time for activities like shopping, financial planning, and attending various pre and post-wedding rituals. Once the authenticity of the request is verified, then an attempt can be made to determine if the employee is genuinely planning to relocate abroad or if these rumors about visas and such are false.
After a clear dialogue is established, only then can a proper decision be made regarding granting Leave Without Pay (LWP) or searching for a replacement for that employee.
Regards,
Dny Pdvl
From India, Ahmadabad
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Dear Deepa,
Thank you so much for your support.
Dny Pdvl,
Yeah, I agree with you, but the thing is, how many of them do you think open up during the interview? During the interview process, the employee's main objective would be to secure the job. They will not give you any hint about their future plans, even if they are aware of them. They know that revealing such information during the interview could make obtaining the job uncertain. However, I do appreciate the feedback you provided.
Best regards,
From India, New Delhi
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Thank you so much for your support.
Dny Pdvl,
Yeah, I agree with you, but the thing is, how many of them do you think open up during the interview? During the interview process, the employee's main objective would be to secure the job. They will not give you any hint about their future plans, even if they are aware of them. They know that revealing such information during the interview could make obtaining the job uncertain. However, I do appreciate the feedback you provided.
Best regards,
From India, New Delhi
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Thank you to everybody for making the topic debatable. But friends, as Ravi said, your employees would leave you, blah, blah, blah... Let me tell you, Ravi, 45 days leave is too much. Even if she had been a confirmed employee, it would still be too much. The girl has recently joined us. Just last month, she took 8 days of leave due to some college work. Now she is taking things for granted and asking for 45 days of leave. When I got married, I took only 10 days of leave. Our company is the company of young people. They will all be getting married sooner or later. It means that for the whole year, few employees would come to the office because the rest would be on leave for 45 days, enjoying their honeymoon.
We all talk about humanity and all, but it should not be at the cost of organizational profit, let me tell you. Do not make statements that your people would leave you soon because if you were to see the culture of my company, then you would never find any company as liberal as we are.
Once again, thank you to all for the very nice points and thoughts.
Let's all never forget that at last, only results matter.
From India, Delhi
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We all talk about humanity and all, but it should not be at the cost of organizational profit, let me tell you. Do not make statements that your people would leave you soon because if you were to see the culture of my company, then you would never find any company as liberal as we are.
Once again, thank you to all for the very nice points and thoughts.
Let's all never forget that at last, only results matter.
From India, Delhi
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Ravi, let me help you understand. Suppose you have started a new company. You hired a few people and began the journey. You worked hard with your team and secured a few projects in the first year. In the second year, you hired 5 employees to execute a project. Now, you cannot afford for any of the employees in this project to take many leaves at the initial stage because the presence of all 5 is highly required, as it is a shift job. If even a single person goes on leave, the others will have to do overtime. While the project members can adjust for a few days, it would not be feasible for 45 days, even biologically.
The employee in question is a new joiner. In the second month, she took 8 days of leave. Now, in the 7th month, she wants to take 45 days off.
Points to be noted:
1) It is a new small firm with a staff of 43 people.
2) The company operates with a 5-day working week (MNC culture).
You are requesting 45 days of leave under these circumstances.
This firm is like a small baby that requires a lot of care. When a mother gives birth to a child, she stays awake day and night. Can't we sacrifice a few comforts?
We are not asking the employee to refrain from taking leave, but it should not exceed 10 to 15 days. Even large companies do not allow employees to take so many days off.
From India, Delhi
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The employee in question is a new joiner. In the second month, she took 8 days of leave. Now, in the 7th month, she wants to take 45 days off.
Points to be noted:
1) It is a new small firm with a staff of 43 people.
2) The company operates with a 5-day working week (MNC culture).
You are requesting 45 days of leave under these circumstances.
This firm is like a small baby that requires a lot of care. When a mother gives birth to a child, she stays awake day and night. Can't we sacrifice a few comforts?
We are not asking the employee to refrain from taking leave, but it should not exceed 10 to 15 days. Even large companies do not allow employees to take so many days off.
From India, Delhi
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Emotions would always lead u to losses if the ingredient of intelligence is missing in it. Have Emotional Intelligence
From India, Delhi
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From India, Delhi
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To the concerned HR Persons,
One request, if you could care to search in cite hr, there has been a thread before wherein one employee, a HR herself, was stunned when asked questions by the HR of the company about personal things, like marriage, and when you plan to have kids. All our HR friends supported her and told that HR should not ask such types of personal questions. So, as per your point, imagine yourself being an employee joining a company, and your parents are looking for a match for you. In this world, as such, nothing is predicted, so you can't tell your company, even if asked about marriage, when you are getting married because you don't know. But within two months of joining, you get a match and all set to get married. What will you do? As per the rituals and customs of your religion, you need to take that much leave, and unless your parents and elders consent, you can't cut short on customs. India is a land of diversity, and people follow customs very strongly. In your case, your customs might not have taken much time, and so the 10 days would have been ample, but to expect every employee to take only 10 days for their marriage just because you didn't take more than 10 days is, I don't know what word to use ;-).
The girl in question might have any one or more or any other such reasons which even I don't know because I'm not a marriage expert ;-). She might be demanding leaves because her native or her hubby's native must be too far away, and the traveling time will take long. Consider the rituals which she would be following; after marriage, she might even be visiting some temples of their family deities, which might be far away, or honeymooning, and if honeymooning abroad, it's wise to spend at least a good time ;-). So considering all those things, she might have put up the total leave as 45 days.
Another question is the rumor that she might shift abroad, etc. You can't stop her from doing so. Even in the future, if you conduct such interviews wherein you ask candidates about their marriage, children plans, it's unethical as you would be discriminating and not following an equal opportunity method.
And one general thing, even marriage and kids planning are not specific in the case of employees; they might not even be knowing when exactly they may get married, so these are just unexpected things. Also, you will need to ask one female HR for female employees to ask about their marriage, honeymoon plans, and kids' plans, and male HR for males. In some religions, if they find your question absurd, you may even end up getting thrashed up by the friends and relatives of the employee because during the interview, you were too frank and asking absurd questions, that may also happen, because it's INDIA, and even if this happens, society will blame you. So don't think that it's easy as a cup of tea. And dear friend, imagine yourself going to an interview and getting questions on personal things. Who will tolerate these things? I always encourage my friends to be like a bull and just nod their head to the HR person when they take the interview because the HR will just understand the nod and get fooled. Once you join, throw tantrums on HR ;-), by getting married, having kids, and taking maternity leaves, all at the cost of our dear company, because the company also belongs to me as it belongs to you, hehehe.
Another generalization which you made is all your employees getting married; don't imagine all coming one by one, giving you a marriage card, and going on a 45-day leave, and you alone sitting in the office doing all the work. Employees are going to get married; after marriage, some may leave, some may leave because of unexpected problems; these are all a part of your life, and you're paid to manage this; you're paid to manage the situation and not take harsh steps and force employees to cut short on leaves, marriages.
Understand the situation fully and take a suitable decision. No doubt you're the Boss in this case, but use some sense and take a decision. This situation will keep on arriving in the future with all companies and all organizations. The HR can't do anything to avoid these types of situations; rather, these situations are normal, considering the pressure and long working hours. Well, Durga, regarding your latest post, give me some time to read it.
From India, Pune
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One request, if you could care to search in cite hr, there has been a thread before wherein one employee, a HR herself, was stunned when asked questions by the HR of the company about personal things, like marriage, and when you plan to have kids. All our HR friends supported her and told that HR should not ask such types of personal questions. So, as per your point, imagine yourself being an employee joining a company, and your parents are looking for a match for you. In this world, as such, nothing is predicted, so you can't tell your company, even if asked about marriage, when you are getting married because you don't know. But within two months of joining, you get a match and all set to get married. What will you do? As per the rituals and customs of your religion, you need to take that much leave, and unless your parents and elders consent, you can't cut short on customs. India is a land of diversity, and people follow customs very strongly. In your case, your customs might not have taken much time, and so the 10 days would have been ample, but to expect every employee to take only 10 days for their marriage just because you didn't take more than 10 days is, I don't know what word to use ;-).
The girl in question might have any one or more or any other such reasons which even I don't know because I'm not a marriage expert ;-). She might be demanding leaves because her native or her hubby's native must be too far away, and the traveling time will take long. Consider the rituals which she would be following; after marriage, she might even be visiting some temples of their family deities, which might be far away, or honeymooning, and if honeymooning abroad, it's wise to spend at least a good time ;-). So considering all those things, she might have put up the total leave as 45 days.
Another question is the rumor that she might shift abroad, etc. You can't stop her from doing so. Even in the future, if you conduct such interviews wherein you ask candidates about their marriage, children plans, it's unethical as you would be discriminating and not following an equal opportunity method.
And one general thing, even marriage and kids planning are not specific in the case of employees; they might not even be knowing when exactly they may get married, so these are just unexpected things. Also, you will need to ask one female HR for female employees to ask about their marriage, honeymoon plans, and kids' plans, and male HR for males. In some religions, if they find your question absurd, you may even end up getting thrashed up by the friends and relatives of the employee because during the interview, you were too frank and asking absurd questions, that may also happen, because it's INDIA, and even if this happens, society will blame you. So don't think that it's easy as a cup of tea. And dear friend, imagine yourself going to an interview and getting questions on personal things. Who will tolerate these things? I always encourage my friends to be like a bull and just nod their head to the HR person when they take the interview because the HR will just understand the nod and get fooled. Once you join, throw tantrums on HR ;-), by getting married, having kids, and taking maternity leaves, all at the cost of our dear company, because the company also belongs to me as it belongs to you, hehehe.
Another generalization which you made is all your employees getting married; don't imagine all coming one by one, giving you a marriage card, and going on a 45-day leave, and you alone sitting in the office doing all the work. Employees are going to get married; after marriage, some may leave, some may leave because of unexpected problems; these are all a part of your life, and you're paid to manage this; you're paid to manage the situation and not take harsh steps and force employees to cut short on leaves, marriages.
Understand the situation fully and take a suitable decision. No doubt you're the Boss in this case, but use some sense and take a decision. This situation will keep on arriving in the future with all companies and all organizations. The HR can't do anything to avoid these types of situations; rather, these situations are normal, considering the pressure and long working hours. Well, Durga, regarding your latest post, give me some time to read it.
From India, Pune
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Dear Prathima,
I appreciate your concerns regarding whether HR Executives can extract correct personal information regarding marriage and other personal goals of an employee, but I would beg to differ. These questions, though personal in nature, need to be addressed carefully, else the entire recruitment process would turn out to be futile. Look at how the HR executive is facing a problem today just because during the interview, these questions were avoided. Asking such questions does not mean that you pose direct questions like "When do you plan to get married?" or "Start a family," etc. But you can always lead employees and ask questions like what are their views on the correct marriageable age for women, and then ask the "dreaded personal question." There are ways and means to ask and extract correct information to many questions. Many times, just studying the body language of the interviewee, we can judge whether he/she is lying or not.
When I used to appear for interviews as a Fresher, there were many HR managers who used to ask questions relating to marriage, and I, as an HR professional, completely understand the logic behind asking such questions because I realize how much time, money, and effort are spent on recruiting one candidate. It would be a complete futile recruitment process if the same employee could not even be retained.
I hope we all, as HR professionals, realize the gravity of asking such "dreaded" questions to avoid later problems.
Regards,
Dny Pdvl
From India, Ahmadabad
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I appreciate your concerns regarding whether HR Executives can extract correct personal information regarding marriage and other personal goals of an employee, but I would beg to differ. These questions, though personal in nature, need to be addressed carefully, else the entire recruitment process would turn out to be futile. Look at how the HR executive is facing a problem today just because during the interview, these questions were avoided. Asking such questions does not mean that you pose direct questions like "When do you plan to get married?" or "Start a family," etc. But you can always lead employees and ask questions like what are their views on the correct marriageable age for women, and then ask the "dreaded personal question." There are ways and means to ask and extract correct information to many questions. Many times, just studying the body language of the interviewee, we can judge whether he/she is lying or not.
When I used to appear for interviews as a Fresher, there were many HR managers who used to ask questions relating to marriage, and I, as an HR professional, completely understand the logic behind asking such questions because I realize how much time, money, and effort are spent on recruiting one candidate. It would be a complete futile recruitment process if the same employee could not even be retained.
I hope we all, as HR professionals, realize the gravity of asking such "dreaded" questions to avoid later problems.
Regards,
Dny Pdvl
From India, Ahmadabad
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Dear all,
Lest go through following test on the approach recommended by most of the members:
Whom do you hire? Whether employee as person or his services with skills and competencies?
What authority (Employer) HRM has to command the personal/social life agenda of any employee?
Can Employment regulates personal wish and will of employee outside his employment terms and conditions?
Status of employment whether permanent/ temporary/ causal/ substitute dosen't matter and is a secondary issue when it comes to honoring employee’s rights and employers commitment towards social responsibility and humanity?
What authority employer has got to deny the annual vacation or right of vacation to utilize for social or personal cause?
Whether employer takes responsibility to indemnify the loss account of his denial of employee’s right?
In the eye of law whether employers act of suppression do not violate the right of employee and amounts to ante social and human policies?
Don't you think we HR agent apply conning tricks and taking employees for granted for ethics and social values under the disguise of our foremost commitment towards employment as major survival issue a head of family and society?
This approach harmful and killing social fabric and psychological needs of employees as human being and looking at him as mechanical person without emotions and sentiments to become scape goat for always sacrificing employees needs just because he is vulnarable might of employers authority to threaten his livelyhood. This is cruel and henious crime against humanity and we Indian HR culprits for vandalizing social atmosphare in India. This attitude of HR who proudly eulogize sycophantlyto all misdeeds of wrong people in management brings disrepute to this profession.
As per global practice, employer has to respect and honor employees privacy/personal life and social commitments and compensate for any denial of his right which are approved by social customs and tradition. Industrial work life cannot ask/force for sacrifice the employees right this is against human rights and ethical norms of civilized society.
I am deadly against such promotion of wrong notions to reinforce the belief in the minds of people that employees are weaker section of society and his need can be exploited under the disguise of employment which empower his social and personal life.
Regards
Sawant
From Saudi Arabia
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Lest go through following test on the approach recommended by most of the members:
Whom do you hire? Whether employee as person or his services with skills and competencies?
What authority (Employer) HRM has to command the personal/social life agenda of any employee?
Can Employment regulates personal wish and will of employee outside his employment terms and conditions?
Status of employment whether permanent/ temporary/ causal/ substitute dosen't matter and is a secondary issue when it comes to honoring employee’s rights and employers commitment towards social responsibility and humanity?
What authority employer has got to deny the annual vacation or right of vacation to utilize for social or personal cause?
Whether employer takes responsibility to indemnify the loss account of his denial of employee’s right?
In the eye of law whether employers act of suppression do not violate the right of employee and amounts to ante social and human policies?
Don't you think we HR agent apply conning tricks and taking employees for granted for ethics and social values under the disguise of our foremost commitment towards employment as major survival issue a head of family and society?
This approach harmful and killing social fabric and psychological needs of employees as human being and looking at him as mechanical person without emotions and sentiments to become scape goat for always sacrificing employees needs just because he is vulnarable might of employers authority to threaten his livelyhood. This is cruel and henious crime against humanity and we Indian HR culprits for vandalizing social atmosphare in India. This attitude of HR who proudly eulogize sycophantlyto all misdeeds of wrong people in management brings disrepute to this profession.
As per global practice, employer has to respect and honor employees privacy/personal life and social commitments and compensate for any denial of his right which are approved by social customs and tradition. Industrial work life cannot ask/force for sacrifice the employees right this is against human rights and ethical norms of civilized society.
I am deadly against such promotion of wrong notions to reinforce the belief in the minds of people that employees are weaker section of society and his need can be exploited under the disguise of employment which empower his social and personal life.
Regards
Sawant
From Saudi Arabia
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You are all Satan HRs who don't understand employees' problems. Who made you HR, I don't know, but let me tell you that if an employee is taking leave for marriage, he is not going on leave without a valid reason. Marriage is not a trivial thing to do in life; after all, it comes once in a lifetime. The employee is dedicating so much hard work and time to the company, and old-minded HRs like Prathima Reddy's, Malik J's, and Sam D'Souza, who have posted their comments on the first page and who nobody likes to see as HR, are suggesting the employee leave the company.
Prathima Reddy's, Malik J's, Sam D'Souza, first go and wash your ass and then come to comment because it's stinking all over the forum.
From China, Qinhuangdao
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Prathima Reddy's, Malik J's, Sam D'Souza, first go and wash your ass and then come to comment because it's stinking all over the forum.
From China, Qinhuangdao
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Prathima,
I remember this query being discussed seven months ago and still circulating in the loop.
For a while, I thought if the leave availed is for marriage or maternity. Forty-five days is unheard of for an employee cadre. If it is at the level of the Board of Directors, then it can be possible. Fine, she thinks she wants to enjoy and spend much of her initial innings.
If she is an experienced employee, and you don't want to lose her, let her take her available leave quota and then go on sick leave with or without LOP. Mr. Sahil4u, words are to be restricted here.
Regards, Chandru
From India, Madras
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I remember this query being discussed seven months ago and still circulating in the loop.
For a while, I thought if the leave availed is for marriage or maternity. Forty-five days is unheard of for an employee cadre. If it is at the level of the Board of Directors, then it can be possible. Fine, she thinks she wants to enjoy and spend much of her initial innings.
If she is an experienced employee, and you don't want to lose her, let her take her available leave quota and then go on sick leave with or without LOP. Mr. Sahil4u, words are to be restricted here.
Regards, Chandru
From India, Madras
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I think we should look at the matter from all aspects. Marriage is a very important occasion in life. If you are worried that she will leave the job, then you cannot stop her.
I think first you should ask her to reduce the number of days. Then you can deduct her leaves from the total leave she is entitled to for the period she has worked, and the remaining days you can deduct from her salary.
Regarding leaving the company, you can have a talk with her and ask if she wants to leave the company in the near future. She can then inform the company so that they can hire a new employee and start training under her supervision.
Management should consider that if they expect something from employees, then employees also expect something from the company. In exigencies, the company asks employees to work extra and put in extra effort. In the same way, employees also expect the company's support and understanding in such situations.
Regards, Tina
From India, New Delhi
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I think first you should ask her to reduce the number of days. Then you can deduct her leaves from the total leave she is entitled to for the period she has worked, and the remaining days you can deduct from her salary.
Regarding leaving the company, you can have a talk with her and ask if she wants to leave the company in the near future. She can then inform the company so that they can hire a new employee and start training under her supervision.
Management should consider that if they expect something from employees, then employees also expect something from the company. In exigencies, the company asks employees to work extra and put in extra effort. In the same way, employees also expect the company's support and understanding in such situations.
Regards, Tina
From India, New Delhi
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Dear Sir,
Your opinion is absolutely perfect and worth it. We all should refine our thought process. Workers/employees are the backbone, and we (HR) are here to direct them in the right direction by assisting them, not by ordering. With due respect to all our members... Thanks. Hope we will find more posts on refining our thought process.
Nisar
Hi everyone, I read with great interest all replies, but to my dismay, I am not convinced with two aspects. 1. Our administrative system may not permit HR executives to approve something beyond defined company norms, and employees do not ask for undue favors. We are dealing with absence and dependency on employees. 2. Employees are human beings and have all the right to have the freedom to discharge their social responsibilities for women's marriage and maternity, which are two important issues in life. A man can curb his socializing activities and customs in spare time, but not women in Indian society.
You could show sympathy towards your employees and request her to reduce the leave period. If not possible, you can further ask the same employee to help you in recruiting someone whom she knows is willing to work temporarily and shall be trained by her before proceeding on leave, filling this temporary vacancy permanently even if she does not turn up after the leave period, you have a substitute. We as HR professionals should not be so harsh on our employees. If you adopt this method, you and your company will be appreciated as an employee-friendly brand and employer of choice image. Even in the case of maternity, apply the same principle to support employees and recommend such solutions to the managements with some special initiatives.
In India, sometimes we act like typical conservative old-fashioned personnel and administrative managers who used to suppress workmen with these tendencies which are still continuing. Our Indian managements are very cynical and skeptical about their employees' discipline and absenteeism tendencies. Our Indian managements don't offer extra money for hard work, nor do they reward employees honestly for working beyond normal working hours, but our Indian employees do not mind overstaying in the office if required. We should always cite these good examples of our employees to the management to defend employees. To be frank and without any prejudice to our employees and management, we must promote a good healthy atmosphere. People respond positively if your organizations are treating employees well; it will become a better place in the world to work, and people enjoy working in such organizations.
We must show respect to our employees first because this is a prime requirement for the success of HR professionals.
Regards, Sawant
From India, Kolhapur
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Your opinion is absolutely perfect and worth it. We all should refine our thought process. Workers/employees are the backbone, and we (HR) are here to direct them in the right direction by assisting them, not by ordering. With due respect to all our members... Thanks. Hope we will find more posts on refining our thought process.
Nisar
Hi everyone, I read with great interest all replies, but to my dismay, I am not convinced with two aspects. 1. Our administrative system may not permit HR executives to approve something beyond defined company norms, and employees do not ask for undue favors. We are dealing with absence and dependency on employees. 2. Employees are human beings and have all the right to have the freedom to discharge their social responsibilities for women's marriage and maternity, which are two important issues in life. A man can curb his socializing activities and customs in spare time, but not women in Indian society.
You could show sympathy towards your employees and request her to reduce the leave period. If not possible, you can further ask the same employee to help you in recruiting someone whom she knows is willing to work temporarily and shall be trained by her before proceeding on leave, filling this temporary vacancy permanently even if she does not turn up after the leave period, you have a substitute. We as HR professionals should not be so harsh on our employees. If you adopt this method, you and your company will be appreciated as an employee-friendly brand and employer of choice image. Even in the case of maternity, apply the same principle to support employees and recommend such solutions to the managements with some special initiatives.
In India, sometimes we act like typical conservative old-fashioned personnel and administrative managers who used to suppress workmen with these tendencies which are still continuing. Our Indian managements are very cynical and skeptical about their employees' discipline and absenteeism tendencies. Our Indian managements don't offer extra money for hard work, nor do they reward employees honestly for working beyond normal working hours, but our Indian employees do not mind overstaying in the office if required. We should always cite these good examples of our employees to the management to defend employees. To be frank and without any prejudice to our employees and management, we must promote a good healthy atmosphere. People respond positively if your organizations are treating employees well; it will become a better place in the world to work, and people enjoy working in such organizations.
We must show respect to our employees first because this is a prime requirement for the success of HR professionals.
Regards, Sawant
From India, Kolhapur
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Karnataka Leave.xlsx
LEAVE APPLICATION.doc