I've been absent from work due to workplace safety, anxiety, and depression. During my absence, my boss only asked me once where I was. After that, he never contacted me. After more than 10 days, I decided to send him an email. In my email, I stated my frustration with the company's policy and management. I also informed him that I am withdrawing myself from the company and they can consider me as an absconded staff.
After that email, they never replied to me, but suddenly a week later, they sent me a letter through email. The letter is a termination letter due to my abscondment and asks me to pay 2 months' notice in lieu.
Please advise me on whether I should pay it or seek advice from a legal consultant.
From Malaysia, Kuala Lumpur
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After that email, they never replied to me, but suddenly a week later, they sent me a letter through email. The letter is a termination letter due to my abscondment and asks me to pay 2 months' notice in lieu.
Please advise me on whether I should pay it or seek advice from a legal consultant.
From Malaysia, Kuala Lumpur
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Dear LL Diana,
You have resigned because of "workplace safety, anxiety, and depression." But then before resignation, why did you not approach a counselor? Why did you not approach your HR? Did you investigate the causes of the depression? What efforts did you make to mitigate the causes of depression? Was there any change of department or any chance of manipulation?
Separation from the company is one thing, and the method of separation is another. Abscondment from work was not the right way of separation. There is nothing like "withdrawal" from the company. You cannot compare yourself to an investment in a financial instrument where the investor can withdraw at will. Each employee needs to give proper resignation and complete the notice period.
Now, coming to the solution. At this stage, there is no need to approach a labor lawyer as such. Many lawyers advise filing a suit. However, court cases drag on for years. This will exasperate you to the hilt. The corniness of court cases kills the joy of winning the case. Yes, your termination is illegal. Any termination has to be preceded by a domestic inquiry. Your company has not conducted any inquiry.
At this stage, just ignore the company's notice. Let us have a "wait and watch" policy. If the company sends you a legal notice, then come back to this forum again. As a trade-off, please be prepared to forego a service-cum-experience letter from that company.
Thanks,
Dinesh Divekar
From India, Bangalore
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8219You have resigned because of "workplace safety, anxiety, and depression." But then before resignation, why did you not approach a counselor? Why did you not approach your HR? Did you investigate the causes of the depression? What efforts did you make to mitigate the causes of depression? Was there any change of department or any chance of manipulation?
Separation from the company is one thing, and the method of separation is another. Abscondment from work was not the right way of separation. There is nothing like "withdrawal" from the company. You cannot compare yourself to an investment in a financial instrument where the investor can withdraw at will. Each employee needs to give proper resignation and complete the notice period.
Now, coming to the solution. At this stage, there is no need to approach a labor lawyer as such. Many lawyers advise filing a suit. However, court cases drag on for years. This will exasperate you to the hilt. The corniness of court cases kills the joy of winning the case. Yes, your termination is illegal. Any termination has to be preceded by a domestic inquiry. Your company has not conducted any inquiry.
At this stage, just ignore the company's notice. Let us have a "wait and watch" policy. If the company sends you a legal notice, then come back to this forum again. As a trade-off, please be prepared to forego a service-cum-experience letter from that company.
Thanks,
Dinesh Divekar
From India, Bangalore
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Hi Dinesh,
Thank you for your advice.
Here is the reason why I didn't approach HR. Because I am the HR Manager. During my service with the company, my management never listened to HR advice. When something happens and it has to do with the labor department, staffing, and not only related to HR but out of HR duties, my management just simply throws the problem to the HR department. It happens very frequently despite my advising my management so many times. I try to do my best to be calm and professionally handle situations as an HR Manager most of the time. Until one day, our company's business partner abandoned his duty to our company and stole a huge amount of cash. The cash actually belonged to the business partner workers. Since the business partner had run away, the workers came to the HR office and made noise asking for their payment. By right, their payment does not come from us. But since their employer had run away (the business partner), they are asking from us. At that time, no one from my management stood with the HR department. Everyone kept quiet until our company's regional office notified the issue. Yes, we managed to pay the business partner workers at the same time we lodged a police report. After that incident, including my staff, felt demotivated with the management and afraid to come to work because of concern for our safety.
The reason we are concerned about our safety is that the business partner workers keep asking us for money because they claim the payment we made to them is insufficient. But we made the payment according to the list prepared by their employer (the business partner left the payroll listing to his staff).
We tried so many times to contact the business partner but failed.
Three days after that, on the way back from the company workers' hostel, I was driving alone. My car was blocked by three unknown guys using a van. I couldn't hear what they said, but I clearly understood the body language showing their anger towards me. I was so panic-stricken and sped up my car. I didn't file a police report but only told my staff what had just happened to me. I was so scared and honestly, I couldn't think anymore. I just stayed at home, didn't pick up any phone calls or text messages, feeling angry, sad, and depressed.
I know absconding is not appropriate, plus I am an HR Manager. But I am also a human being and a woman. What really makes me sad is that no one from my management showed concern and care. After all the bad things that happened to me, everyone just kept quiet on that case. But when it comes to my abscondment, they act so efficiently but do not apply a proper procedure.
Question:
If my company doesn't conduct a proper procedure on my abscondment, can I challenge their decision?
I am not asking for any compensation from the company, but it would be good enough if they take what happened seriously.
From Malaysia, Kuala Lumpur
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Thank you for your advice.
Here is the reason why I didn't approach HR. Because I am the HR Manager. During my service with the company, my management never listened to HR advice. When something happens and it has to do with the labor department, staffing, and not only related to HR but out of HR duties, my management just simply throws the problem to the HR department. It happens very frequently despite my advising my management so many times. I try to do my best to be calm and professionally handle situations as an HR Manager most of the time. Until one day, our company's business partner abandoned his duty to our company and stole a huge amount of cash. The cash actually belonged to the business partner workers. Since the business partner had run away, the workers came to the HR office and made noise asking for their payment. By right, their payment does not come from us. But since their employer had run away (the business partner), they are asking from us. At that time, no one from my management stood with the HR department. Everyone kept quiet until our company's regional office notified the issue. Yes, we managed to pay the business partner workers at the same time we lodged a police report. After that incident, including my staff, felt demotivated with the management and afraid to come to work because of concern for our safety.
The reason we are concerned about our safety is that the business partner workers keep asking us for money because they claim the payment we made to them is insufficient. But we made the payment according to the list prepared by their employer (the business partner left the payroll listing to his staff).
We tried so many times to contact the business partner but failed.
Three days after that, on the way back from the company workers' hostel, I was driving alone. My car was blocked by three unknown guys using a van. I couldn't hear what they said, but I clearly understood the body language showing their anger towards me. I was so panic-stricken and sped up my car. I didn't file a police report but only told my staff what had just happened to me. I was so scared and honestly, I couldn't think anymore. I just stayed at home, didn't pick up any phone calls or text messages, feeling angry, sad, and depressed.
I know absconding is not appropriate, plus I am an HR Manager. But I am also a human being and a woman. What really makes me sad is that no one from my management showed concern and care. After all the bad things that happened to me, everyone just kept quiet on that case. But when it comes to my abscondment, they act so efficiently but do not apply a proper procedure.
Question:
If my company doesn't conduct a proper procedure on my abscondment, can I challenge their decision?
I am not asking for any compensation from the company, but it would be good enough if they take what happened seriously.
From Malaysia, Kuala Lumpur
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Dear Diana,
Your problems arose because of the following reasons:
a) You have failed to understand which side the wind is blowing from. When a business partner runs away with the money, this reflects the culture of the company. You had failed to gauge the pulse of the organization.
b) You had allowed yourself to be seen as the face of management. Instead, workers should have considered you as one among them. HR is always perceived as powerless, hapless, and helpless. Yet, it appears that you projected the wrong image to them.
c) If workers were not receiving their salaries, you could have escalated the issue upward. HR's role is to prepare the salary roll and nothing more. What if the salary rolls are not approved, and the funds are not transferred to the bank account?
d) When three workers blocked your car, you could have shown courage by talking to them. Generally, Indian men do not raise a hand against women. If there had been a male HR Manager, those workers would have likely confronted him. However, you failed to leverage your gender advantage. You could have explained to them that you are also facing challenges just like they are. The HR department simply disburses the salary, but the funds come from the top. HR is akin to a water tap. Breaking a water tap does not restore a failed water supply.
e) Neither did you speak to the aggressive workers to calm them down nor did you file a police report for their aggression. Filing a First Information Report (FIR) could have supported your stance. Now, you find yourself in a difficult position.
f) Diplomacy is the art of the possible. Many HR professionals wear double masks, one in front of management and another in front of workers. At home, both masks are off. It seems that you had none. Consequently, you lack support in either place.
g) When a business partner abandons the business and absconds with the money, I fail to understand how it impacts the workers' salaries. What is this business model? How many partners were involved? What are the roles and responsibilities of the other business partners?
h) Tacitly, you could have advised the workers to approach the Labour Office. Notices from the Labour Department are typically sent to the occupier, not to the HR department. While HR may represent management in the Labour Office, they are merely representatives and not decision-makers. A notice would have shifted the focus from the HR department to top management.
Anyway, there is no use crying over spilled milk. This is hindsight. As mentioned in the initial post, await the lawyer's notice. If a lawyer's notice is received, threaten the management that you will take the matter to the Labour Office and expose all the company's wrongdoings. If the management shows reluctance, negotiate with them for a smooth exit. If the management remains unyielding, proceed to the Labour Office, explain everything, and take a few workers with you to file a joint complaint. Ensure your name does not appear anywhere. Once an industrial dispute arises between workers and management, it will be overseen by the labour department. Disengage from the situation calmly!
Thanks,
Dinesh Divekar
From India, Bangalore
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Your problems arose because of the following reasons:
a) You have failed to understand which side the wind is blowing from. When a business partner runs away with the money, this reflects the culture of the company. You had failed to gauge the pulse of the organization.
b) You had allowed yourself to be seen as the face of management. Instead, workers should have considered you as one among them. HR is always perceived as powerless, hapless, and helpless. Yet, it appears that you projected the wrong image to them.
c) If workers were not receiving their salaries, you could have escalated the issue upward. HR's role is to prepare the salary roll and nothing more. What if the salary rolls are not approved, and the funds are not transferred to the bank account?
d) When three workers blocked your car, you could have shown courage by talking to them. Generally, Indian men do not raise a hand against women. If there had been a male HR Manager, those workers would have likely confronted him. However, you failed to leverage your gender advantage. You could have explained to them that you are also facing challenges just like they are. The HR department simply disburses the salary, but the funds come from the top. HR is akin to a water tap. Breaking a water tap does not restore a failed water supply.
e) Neither did you speak to the aggressive workers to calm them down nor did you file a police report for their aggression. Filing a First Information Report (FIR) could have supported your stance. Now, you find yourself in a difficult position.
f) Diplomacy is the art of the possible. Many HR professionals wear double masks, one in front of management and another in front of workers. At home, both masks are off. It seems that you had none. Consequently, you lack support in either place.
g) When a business partner abandons the business and absconds with the money, I fail to understand how it impacts the workers' salaries. What is this business model? How many partners were involved? What are the roles and responsibilities of the other business partners?
h) Tacitly, you could have advised the workers to approach the Labour Office. Notices from the Labour Department are typically sent to the occupier, not to the HR department. While HR may represent management in the Labour Office, they are merely representatives and not decision-makers. A notice would have shifted the focus from the HR department to top management.
Anyway, there is no use crying over spilled milk. This is hindsight. As mentioned in the initial post, await the lawyer's notice. If a lawyer's notice is received, threaten the management that you will take the matter to the Labour Office and expose all the company's wrongdoings. If the management shows reluctance, negotiate with them for a smooth exit. If the management remains unyielding, proceed to the Labour Office, explain everything, and take a few workers with you to file a joint complaint. Ensure your name does not appear anywhere. Once an industrial dispute arises between workers and management, it will be overseen by the labour department. Disengage from the situation calmly!
Thanks,
Dinesh Divekar
From India, Bangalore
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Referring to your question for clause (g):
The company has a letter of agreement with the business partner. The business partner has a letter of agreement with his workers. This means that anything regarding the workers' employment should be dealt with by the workers through the business partner as their employer.
The business partner receives payment from our company. We will only pay the business partner, and it is the responsibility of the business partner to pay the workers since the workers were appointed by the business partner.
In this situation, since the business partner has run away, the workers have come to our office, which is not supposed to happen. Initially, I ignored the workers because it is clear they are not employed by us. However, the management is asking HR to prepare the payment and pay the workers, and I don't have the courage to say no :(
By the way, thank you for your opinion and advice. I hope that after this, everything will be fine.
From Malaysia, Kuala Lumpur
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The company has a letter of agreement with the business partner. The business partner has a letter of agreement with his workers. This means that anything regarding the workers' employment should be dealt with by the workers through the business partner as their employer.
The business partner receives payment from our company. We will only pay the business partner, and it is the responsibility of the business partner to pay the workers since the workers were appointed by the business partner.
In this situation, since the business partner has run away, the workers have come to our office, which is not supposed to happen. Initially, I ignored the workers because it is clear they are not employed by us. However, the management is asking HR to prepare the payment and pay the workers, and I don't have the courage to say no :(
By the way, thank you for your opinion and advice. I hope that after this, everything will be fine.
From Malaysia, Kuala Lumpur
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Hello Dinesh Divekar,
I am not really sure of this aspect, but based on what Diana mentioned, the 'legal' relationship between her Company & the so-called Business Partner 'seems' to be that of a Company & a Contractor. In such a scenario, legally, isn't the onus of the salary payments of the Contractor on the Primary Employer—i.e., her Company—under the Contracts Act? You will be in a better position on this legal aspect/point.
Regards,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
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I am not really sure of this aspect, but based on what Diana mentioned, the 'legal' relationship between her Company & the so-called Business Partner 'seems' to be that of a Company & a Contractor. In such a scenario, legally, isn't the onus of the salary payments of the Contractor on the Primary Employer—i.e., her Company—under the Contracts Act? You will be in a better position on this legal aspect/point.
Regards,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
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Hi Tajsateesh,
Yes, you are right. The business partner I meant is a subcontractor. The workers who are making noise are actually employed by the subcontractor. So, technically, our company is not supposed to be involved with the subcontractor's management. However, in my case, my bosses instructed me to handle the payment.
Thoughts?
Thanks
From Malaysia, Kuala Lumpur
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Yes, you are right. The business partner I meant is a subcontractor. The workers who are making noise are actually employed by the subcontractor. So, technically, our company is not supposed to be involved with the subcontractor's management. However, in my case, my bosses instructed me to handle the payment.
Thoughts?
Thanks
From Malaysia, Kuala Lumpur
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