Dear All,
Requesting seniors to clarify my doubts!!!
Let's say if an employee informs his respective team manager/HR about his sick leave. After 2 days, he extends his leave for another 20 days via a phone call or SMS. In such cases, how many days maximum can his leave be extended? Does the employer have the right to terminate such an employee?
Regards,
Vinodkumar.C
From India, Chennai
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4Requesting seniors to clarify my doubts!!!
Let's say if an employee informs his respective team manager/HR about his sick leave. After 2 days, he extends his leave for another 20 days via a phone call or SMS. In such cases, how many days maximum can his leave be extended? Does the employer have the right to terminate such an employee?
Regards,
Vinodkumar.C
From India, Chennai
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Hi,
It depends on what type of company the employer is running. If it's a government undertaking, then you can't even think of termination in this case. However, you can't terminate in such a matter in a private organization either. You need to figure out what the actual reason is.
Grab the reason first, then act accordingly.
Regards
From India, Lucknow
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It depends on what type of company the employer is running. If it's a government undertaking, then you can't even think of termination in this case. However, you can't terminate in such a matter in a private organization either. You need to figure out what the actual reason is.
Grab the reason first, then act accordingly.
Regards
From India, Lucknow
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Dear Mr. Vinod,
You can't terminate any employee based solely on extended leave (sick, casual, PL). If an employee repeatedly takes extended leave, which hampers productivity, you can issue a warning letter. Additionally, you can limit sick leave to three instances in a single period; if an employee exceeds this limit, they must provide a medical report from an MBBS Doctor. If the employee exhausts all sick leave, you can adjust their PL. If all PL is also used up, you can proceed with salary deductions.
You have not mentioned the legal status of your company (Factory, Shops & Establishment, Company Act, Trust, etc.). It's important to establish a comprehensive policy for taking leave, holidays, and days off while considering legal requirements. Ensure all employees are informed about the process for requesting leave.
Terminating an employee solely on the grounds of extended leave is unethical and goes against labor laws.
Thank you.
From India, Delhi
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You can't terminate any employee based solely on extended leave (sick, casual, PL). If an employee repeatedly takes extended leave, which hampers productivity, you can issue a warning letter. Additionally, you can limit sick leave to three instances in a single period; if an employee exceeds this limit, they must provide a medical report from an MBBS Doctor. If the employee exhausts all sick leave, you can adjust their PL. If all PL is also used up, you can proceed with salary deductions.
You have not mentioned the legal status of your company (Factory, Shops & Establishment, Company Act, Trust, etc.). It's important to establish a comprehensive policy for taking leave, holidays, and days off while considering legal requirements. Ensure all employees are informed about the process for requesting leave.
Terminating an employee solely on the grounds of extended leave is unethical and goes against labor laws.
Thank you.
From India, Delhi
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He asked for 2 days of leave initially. He asked only once for 20 more days. He has not submitted any proof as of now, but he says after resuming work, he will submit all necessary medical documents.
My company offers a total of 15 days of casual and sick leave together per year, along with 12 earned leaves per year. Most importantly, he had submitted his resignation one month ago, and he has to serve an additional 60 days of notice period.
From India, Chennai
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My company offers a total of 15 days of casual and sick leave together per year, along with 12 earned leaves per year. Most importantly, he had submitted his resignation one month ago, and he has to serve an additional 60 days of notice period.
From India, Chennai
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Dear Mr. Vinod,
During the notice period, an employee working in private organizations like yours is normally allowed pro-rata leave only. This means that if a person is allowed 12 days of sick leave in a year, they will be eligible for only 2 days of sick leave during their 2-month notice period. It can be inferred that the concerned person wants clearance and experience certificates from you, which is why they applied for 20 days of sick leave. Pro-rata sick leave with medical sickness and fitness certificates should both be permitted. Please communicate with the individual over the phone to confirm this action, and also send an SMS to confirm it.
Regards,
RDS Yadav
Labour Law Adviser,
Director - Future Institute of Engineering and Technology
From India, Delhi
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During the notice period, an employee working in private organizations like yours is normally allowed pro-rata leave only. This means that if a person is allowed 12 days of sick leave in a year, they will be eligible for only 2 days of sick leave during their 2-month notice period. It can be inferred that the concerned person wants clearance and experience certificates from you, which is why they applied for 20 days of sick leave. Pro-rata sick leave with medical sickness and fitness certificates should both be permitted. Please communicate with the individual over the phone to confirm this action, and also send an SMS to confirm it.
Regards,
RDS Yadav
Labour Law Adviser,
Director - Future Institute of Engineering and Technology
From India, Delhi
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Terminating any employee will not serve any purpose. Firstly, ascertain whether he is truly sick or not. Afterward, you can take any action deemed fit, but it should be within the purview of the law.
I understand that in a private organization, such extended leave is not typically granted because work cannot be put on hold. However, on humanitarian grounds and depending on the circumstances, accommodations can be made.
From India, Lucknow
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I understand that in a private organization, such extended leave is not typically granted because work cannot be put on hold. However, on humanitarian grounds and depending on the circumstances, accommodations can be made.
From India, Lucknow
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Hello Vinodkumar,
Like Nathrao & Pan Singh mentioned, you need to ascertain the reasons before resorting to termination.
However, please clarify/confirm your company's notice period policy regarding leaves.
Most companies don't allow any leaves during the notice period. Even if medical leaves are taken, the notice period gets extended on a pro-rata basis. This means if an employee in the notice period takes 3 days of medical leave, their notice period gets extended by 3 days.
If you don't have this in your policy, I suggest including this aspect as soon as possible. Nowadays, many employees find ways to just complete the notice period 'on paper' rather than doing any worthwhile work. Medical certificates are 'dime a dozen' - when even degree certificates can be faked, do you think the employee can't produce a medical certificate?
Regarding the actual query about terminating this employee, what are you trying to achieve? Let's assume there are ways to terminate him - what next? Has your purpose been achieved - whatever it is/was? I doubt it.
I think you need to focus on whether he has handed over/completed all tasks he is supposed to. That's what affects your company in the long run. Not whether you fire him or give him medals before leaving.
In such cases/situations, 'thinking through the head' is far more effective and needed than 'thinking through the heart'.
Regards,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
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Like Nathrao & Pan Singh mentioned, you need to ascertain the reasons before resorting to termination.
However, please clarify/confirm your company's notice period policy regarding leaves.
Most companies don't allow any leaves during the notice period. Even if medical leaves are taken, the notice period gets extended on a pro-rata basis. This means if an employee in the notice period takes 3 days of medical leave, their notice period gets extended by 3 days.
If you don't have this in your policy, I suggest including this aspect as soon as possible. Nowadays, many employees find ways to just complete the notice period 'on paper' rather than doing any worthwhile work. Medical certificates are 'dime a dozen' - when even degree certificates can be faked, do you think the employee can't produce a medical certificate?
Regarding the actual query about terminating this employee, what are you trying to achieve? Let's assume there are ways to terminate him - what next? Has your purpose been achieved - whatever it is/was? I doubt it.
I think you need to focus on whether he has handed over/completed all tasks he is supposed to. That's what affects your company in the long run. Not whether you fire him or give him medals before leaving.
In such cases/situations, 'thinking through the head' is far more effective and needed than 'thinking through the heart'.
Regards,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
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Dear All,
I thank everyone who took the effort to share your valuable information and suggestions.
Let me provide a few more details about the scenario. We have learned from a source that this person has received an offer from another company at his location and is attempting to leave within 30 days from here to join the new company as soon as possible. It is likely that he has agreed to join them in 45 to 60 days. To expedite this process, he has created a false impression about himself, claiming illness, among other things, in order to gain sympathy benefits. However, he is confident that he will submit his medical records upon his return. Even if he submits all the necessary records, we are disappointed in him due to his deceitful behavior. Keeping an individual with such an attitude will not be advantageous for my company since he will likely be unable to focus on his work effectively.
"We are aware that he is being deceitful, but we lack concrete proof to confirm this."
As per our company policy, if an individual takes leave during the notice period, they are required to extend their working days on a pro-rata basis. However, requesting him to extend his time with us will not be beneficial. We have two options: either facilitate his smooth departure by providing all necessary relieving documents and full and final settlements, or impart a lesson to him for his deceptive actions.
Kindly provide me with further suggestions on this matter.
Regards,
Vinodkumar C.
From India, Chennai
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I thank everyone who took the effort to share your valuable information and suggestions.
Let me provide a few more details about the scenario. We have learned from a source that this person has received an offer from another company at his location and is attempting to leave within 30 days from here to join the new company as soon as possible. It is likely that he has agreed to join them in 45 to 60 days. To expedite this process, he has created a false impression about himself, claiming illness, among other things, in order to gain sympathy benefits. However, he is confident that he will submit his medical records upon his return. Even if he submits all the necessary records, we are disappointed in him due to his deceitful behavior. Keeping an individual with such an attitude will not be advantageous for my company since he will likely be unable to focus on his work effectively.
"We are aware that he is being deceitful, but we lack concrete proof to confirm this."
As per our company policy, if an individual takes leave during the notice period, they are required to extend their working days on a pro-rata basis. However, requesting him to extend his time with us will not be beneficial. We have two options: either facilitate his smooth departure by providing all necessary relieving documents and full and final settlements, or impart a lesson to him for his deceptive actions.
Kindly provide me with further suggestions on this matter.
Regards,
Vinodkumar C.
From India, Chennai
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Hello Nathrao,
Regarding your remark "Allowing smooth exit will make your company a better place to work," I think Vinodkumar's apprehension was towards this becoming a precedence than focusing on this individual case alone. While being nice is definitely good, HR also needs to ensure that the company is not taken for granted. Relieve him by all means... as you mentioned, retaining such employees causes more trouble than benefit. However, also ensure that he/she doesn't become a precedent for others to follow the same path.
@ Vinodkumar-- Maybe it would help others to suggest changes if you can copy/paste your Notice Period Policy here.
Regards,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
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Regarding your remark "Allowing smooth exit will make your company a better place to work," I think Vinodkumar's apprehension was towards this becoming a precedence than focusing on this individual case alone. While being nice is definitely good, HR also needs to ensure that the company is not taken for granted. Relieve him by all means... as you mentioned, retaining such employees causes more trouble than benefit. However, also ensure that he/she doesn't become a precedent for others to follow the same path.
@ Vinodkumar-- Maybe it would help others to suggest changes if you can copy/paste your Notice Period Policy here.
Regards,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
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Your observation has already been addressed in my response, Nathrao. Just that I didn't quote both the lines. Please see the second paragraph of my response.
What everyone seems to be focusing on is how to handle this case, while I am focusing on both how to handle this case and also ensure such cases don't recur in the future, or at least the chances are minimized.
That's all.
Regards,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
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What everyone seems to be focusing on is how to handle this case, while I am focusing on both how to handle this case and also ensure such cases don't recur in the future, or at least the chances are minimized.
That's all.
Regards,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
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