Hi everyone. I am new to this forum and couldn't find any solution to my query anywhere. So, I thought of posting my query here so that anyone aware of this problem may answer it. I am working with an MNC as a civil engineer. I reach my office at 8:30 am sharp and leave my office at 8 pm or later.
Now, my problem is that one day our administrative department told me to come to the office by 8 am. I said okay. The next day when I reached the office by 8 am, there was no one, and I showed that person that no one is coming by that time. From the next day, I also came like everyone since all people come after 8:15 am. Today again, he told me, "Why are you not coming before 8:15 am?" I told him the reason, and he unnecessarily broke into arguments.
So, I want to know about the working hours in companies and which Indian laws or amendments mention the duration of work. I went through some posts here, but that didn't clear my doubts. If anyone knows about this, please let me know because these people need to get a lesson. Please help.
From India, Bhubaneswar
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Now, my problem is that one day our administrative department told me to come to the office by 8 am. I said okay. The next day when I reached the office by 8 am, there was no one, and I showed that person that no one is coming by that time. From the next day, I also came like everyone since all people come after 8:15 am. Today again, he told me, "Why are you not coming before 8:15 am?" I told him the reason, and he unnecessarily broke into arguments.
So, I want to know about the working hours in companies and which Indian laws or amendments mention the duration of work. I went through some posts here, but that didn't clear my doubts. If anyone knows about this, please let me know because these people need to get a lesson. Please help.
From India, Bhubaneswar
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Bibhu, Read the clause of working hours in appt letter. The Acts stipulate the working hrs as 8. Pon
From India, Lucknow
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616From India, Lucknow
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Dear Bibhu, As law the working hours are 8. Pls read your appointment letter for further details. There should be a clause related to the same.
From India, Ludhiana
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From India, Ludhiana
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Hello,
India follows the ILO convention on working hours, which states working hours to be 48 per week. However, in this case, that does not seem to be the issue.
Changing hours of work during a week is slightly tricky, but changing the relay (from what to what) is a pretty straightforward matter. The relay is set (and can be reset) to suit work exigencies from time to time. This will be decided initially by the terms and conditions of the employment contract, but as I mentioned, the relay can be changed. This is where, in addition to work exigencies, the HR culture must involve itself.
In the instant case, the gentleman was asked to report at a particular time when there was no one present on that occasion. Then he is being questioned as to why he was not reporting before 8.15 am.
I find this state of affairs to be rather incompetent, casual, authoritative, and oppressive. The powers that be in that organization must set the system right.
Nothing more to it really!
Regards,
Samvedan
June 21, 2011
From India, Pune
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India follows the ILO convention on working hours, which states working hours to be 48 per week. However, in this case, that does not seem to be the issue.
Changing hours of work during a week is slightly tricky, but changing the relay (from what to what) is a pretty straightforward matter. The relay is set (and can be reset) to suit work exigencies from time to time. This will be decided initially by the terms and conditions of the employment contract, but as I mentioned, the relay can be changed. This is where, in addition to work exigencies, the HR culture must involve itself.
In the instant case, the gentleman was asked to report at a particular time when there was no one present on that occasion. Then he is being questioned as to why he was not reporting before 8.15 am.
I find this state of affairs to be rather incompetent, casual, authoritative, and oppressive. The powers that be in that organization must set the system right.
Nothing more to it really!
Regards,
Samvedan
June 21, 2011
From India, Pune
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I understand from his post that he is in the maintenance/service department. That's why the HR must have asked him to be at the office before others could turn up and attend any defects observed in MES systems.
Pon
From India, Lucknow
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Pon
From India, Lucknow
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@Pon: Bhibhu is a civil engineer - not in the maintenance department.
@Sam: I am sure Bhibhu too feels that the state of affairs is rather incompetent, casual, authoritative, and oppressive. No wonder he has resorted to writing to this forum. What do you suggest he should do now?
@Bhibhu: I agree with Rajan and Pon. Check your appointment letter. Also, talk to your line manager about any kind of ill-treatment.
From India, Madras
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@Sam: I am sure Bhibhu too feels that the state of affairs is rather incompetent, casual, authoritative, and oppressive. No wonder he has resorted to writing to this forum. What do you suggest he should do now?
@Bhibhu: I agree with Rajan and Pon. Check your appointment letter. Also, talk to your line manager about any kind of ill-treatment.
From India, Madras
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Hello,
Bibhu must first understand the causes behind the changing of reporting times. This he can do only by checking with his immediate superior and/or HR-Admin.
If he is not satisfied with the answers and logic of the instruction, he may be able to sort it out or even raise a grievance and get it redressed.
When one works in any organization, one has to submit to authority first and foremost. He should not be critical and shoot from the hip, as it were. He must put across his viewpoint. And before that, he must ask himself what he is unhappy about - the change of reporting time OR the exercise of authority in a mindless and brutal manner! But to reach conclusions, he must be patient and generate sufficient evidence (instances to demonstrate that the instructions were unrealistic, futile, tended to be rules imposed personally on him, and were against the company's interests.
If he does not wish to submit to even legitimate authority, he will be forced to consider alternatives.
Having said all this and purely based on the facts as presented, the use of authority and wrongful insistence seemed to me rather uncalled for. The basics of success in dealing with people say that you must explain the "why" and not just the "what" of action, obedience, and compliance expected of the individual. This is true at home, school, and workplaces equally. It appears that no one was taking such an approach - at least the facts presented do not reveal this aspect.
Before rushing to a "final" decision, any employee (especially a new employee) must patiently examine and understand the culture of the organization and the work environment. Jumping to conclusions is something no one must ever do!
Maybe Mr. Bibhu will get something to think about from this response. But I insist that the organization must be alert to practices that can upset new/good employees as well.
Regards,
Samvedan
June 22, 2011
From India, Pune
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Bibhu must first understand the causes behind the changing of reporting times. This he can do only by checking with his immediate superior and/or HR-Admin.
If he is not satisfied with the answers and logic of the instruction, he may be able to sort it out or even raise a grievance and get it redressed.
When one works in any organization, one has to submit to authority first and foremost. He should not be critical and shoot from the hip, as it were. He must put across his viewpoint. And before that, he must ask himself what he is unhappy about - the change of reporting time OR the exercise of authority in a mindless and brutal manner! But to reach conclusions, he must be patient and generate sufficient evidence (instances to demonstrate that the instructions were unrealistic, futile, tended to be rules imposed personally on him, and were against the company's interests.
If he does not wish to submit to even legitimate authority, he will be forced to consider alternatives.
Having said all this and purely based on the facts as presented, the use of authority and wrongful insistence seemed to me rather uncalled for. The basics of success in dealing with people say that you must explain the "why" and not just the "what" of action, obedience, and compliance expected of the individual. This is true at home, school, and workplaces equally. It appears that no one was taking such an approach - at least the facts presented do not reveal this aspect.
Before rushing to a "final" decision, any employee (especially a new employee) must patiently examine and understand the culture of the organization and the work environment. Jumping to conclusions is something no one must ever do!
Maybe Mr. Bibhu will get something to think about from this response. But I insist that the organization must be alert to practices that can upset new/good employees as well.
Regards,
Samvedan
June 22, 2011
From India, Pune
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I suggest that as per rules, everyone has to work for 8 hours in general. This rule may be for workers and not necessarily for supervisors and managers. But again, that does not mean that they could be asked to work for unlimited hours in a day. Once in a while, working beyond 8 hours may be accepted, but not always!
I recommend that the employer's representative should give a written order for working beyond 8 hours in case it is frequent, and the employee could ask for such an order in writing. The concerned person should also mark the "IN" time and "OUT" time in attendance to record the evidence.
In case there is a labor welfare or HR manager, this point could be raised in the grievances cell together by all employees or represented to the Labor Commissioner. Venkat, Chennai
From India, Madras
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I recommend that the employer's representative should give a written order for working beyond 8 hours in case it is frequent, and the employee could ask for such an order in writing. The concerned person should also mark the "IN" time and "OUT" time in attendance to record the evidence.
In case there is a labor welfare or HR manager, this point could be raised in the grievances cell together by all employees or represented to the Labor Commissioner. Venkat, Chennai
From India, Madras
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Thank you, everyone, for your replies.
@boss2966 - Yes, you are right. Nowadays, they make me feel like I have chosen the wrong discipline. Yet we know our responsibility, that's why we work for late hours. And this should be understood by those people who are working for more than 12 hours; 15 minutes doesn't make any sense.
@samvedan - You are also right. This case is an incompetent one. Even the person who asked me to come by 8:15 am doesn't come on time. He gives me the reason that the company vehicle is picking up staff members from their residence, so they are getting late. Since you come in your own vehicle, you should come early.
@pon - I am not in any service or maintenance department, and I don't have any responsibility to keep an eye on anyone. I am being allotted a job that is not related to HR people or reporting time. It's an independent job.
@venkates - Yes, that's what the HR people should be aware of. We are engineers or managers; that does not mean we have to work like animals. When I asked that fellow to put a notice for "IN" time and "OUT" time, he told me that I am talking too much. Even my senior has never told me a single word about my reporting time.
Here on my site, everyone is irritated by this kind of timing. Since there is no alternative way (in civil engineering as said by boss2966), we are just getting used to it. But I am neither helpless nor afraid of losing my job, so I want to teach him a lesson, and I will do it someday, of course with your help, my friends.
From India, Bhubaneswar
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@boss2966 - Yes, you are right. Nowadays, they make me feel like I have chosen the wrong discipline. Yet we know our responsibility, that's why we work for late hours. And this should be understood by those people who are working for more than 12 hours; 15 minutes doesn't make any sense.
@samvedan - You are also right. This case is an incompetent one. Even the person who asked me to come by 8:15 am doesn't come on time. He gives me the reason that the company vehicle is picking up staff members from their residence, so they are getting late. Since you come in your own vehicle, you should come early.
@pon - I am not in any service or maintenance department, and I don't have any responsibility to keep an eye on anyone. I am being allotted a job that is not related to HR people or reporting time. It's an independent job.
@venkates - Yes, that's what the HR people should be aware of. We are engineers or managers; that does not mean we have to work like animals. When I asked that fellow to put a notice for "IN" time and "OUT" time, he told me that I am talking too much. Even my senior has never told me a single word about my reporting time.
Here on my site, everyone is irritated by this kind of timing. Since there is no alternative way (in civil engineering as said by boss2966), we are just getting used to it. But I am neither helpless nor afraid of losing my job, so I want to teach him a lesson, and I will do it someday, of course with your help, my friends.
From India, Bhubaneswar
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Dear Colleagues,
I have gone through all the guidelines for this topic, particularly regarding timings. It depends on the requirements of an organization and the needs of the employees concerned. In the private sector, timings are not confined; they are intertwined with job responsibilities and the compliance required for that specific role. If employees aim for long-term sustainability within a company, especially in the private sector, they should be willing to let go of smaller considerations.
Keep joyful,
Ramesh Yandamuri
From India, Visakhapatnam
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I have gone through all the guidelines for this topic, particularly regarding timings. It depends on the requirements of an organization and the needs of the employees concerned. In the private sector, timings are not confined; they are intertwined with job responsibilities and the compliance required for that specific role. If employees aim for long-term sustainability within a company, especially in the private sector, they should be willing to let go of smaller considerations.
Keep joyful,
Ramesh Yandamuri
From India, Visakhapatnam
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Hi Bibhu,
First and foremost, you need to speak to that so-called admin supervisor about why he is oppressing you to come early. Tell him that the company bus coming late is not your problem. If he is insisting on a certain time for arrival, he needs to adhere to it; otherwise, he has no right to dictate to others. In short, he must be quiet.
If he attempts to act clever, bring this issue up with your supervisor or his boss. There is not much he can do to you.
From Netherlands
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First and foremost, you need to speak to that so-called admin supervisor about why he is oppressing you to come early. Tell him that the company bus coming late is not your problem. If he is insisting on a certain time for arrival, he needs to adhere to it; otherwise, he has no right to dictate to others. In short, he must be quiet.
If he attempts to act clever, bring this issue up with your supervisor or his boss. There is not much he can do to you.
From Netherlands
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Hi Bibhu,
As indicated by many others, please check the company policy on mandatory working hours. As I see it, you are simply being bullied! Most bullies are encouraged by those who meekly accept bullying. So stop accepting unauthorized commands from this person. Raise the level if need be. You have stated that someday you will teach him a lesson! I am sorry to say that you are only hiding behind that statement. Confront the bully today and get the monkey off your back. May I wish you the best of luck.
Aye,
Col Gahlot
09810081197
From India, Delhi
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As indicated by many others, please check the company policy on mandatory working hours. As I see it, you are simply being bullied! Most bullies are encouraged by those who meekly accept bullying. So stop accepting unauthorized commands from this person. Raise the level if need be. You have stated that someday you will teach him a lesson! I am sorry to say that you are only hiding behind that statement. Confront the bully today and get the monkey off your back. May I wish you the best of luck.
Aye,
Col Gahlot
09810081197
From India, Delhi
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Dear Bibhu, Why to teach a lesson, be brave and grow bigger he will follow. Be crearive and not destructive. Regards Sunil
From India, Gurgaon
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From India, Gurgaon
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As per the Factory Act, working hours are 8 hours per day or 48 hours in a week. In the Factory Act, there is no division between workers and officers. Except for the occupier and factory manager, all are employees of the factory and come under the same act and rules. However, in many factories, officers are treated separately. They are asked to work more than the standard working hours without any benefits and are given tasks similar to bonded workers. This practice aims to increase factory profits by reducing manpower, but it is very harmful as it leads to a reduction in employment in countries like India.
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No more working till late hours.doc
Working Hours.pdf