Hello, I have joined a company and even after 4 months no appointment letter has been given. I have asked other employees and its the same with others as well, some have completed 2 years and no letter. Its bosses decision whom to give and whom to not, mostly like 90% have no appointment letter. Initially only offer leters are given. Also they keep original marksheet and dont return them till you leave the company. Both these sounds illegal but I have no idea about the company HR laws and whom to complain. In company the HR members says they cant do anything and no one else takes the responsibility. Other staff members do not complain for the fear of being given a memo or job loss. How can this be dealt with, please guide.
From India, New Delhi
2From India, New Delhi
These things happen only under unprofessional management. Many (employers) think that by not giving appointment orders they are in safe side that the employees cannot claim any permanency or other rights under labour laws. In fact contract of employment need not necessarily be in writing but an oral order will do the purpose. Only thing is that in a court, it is the employee who should prove that he was/ has been employed in the company and in order to prove it he should have the relevant pages of attendance register, wages register or other documents like work instructions, approvals, etc in which his signature is available. For coverage of ESI or PF, the authorities will not ask for your appointment orders but they are concerned only with Muster Rolls and Wages Register. Similarly, if you have your name entered in the Attendance Register and Wages register, that is a proof of employment. Even an appointment order can be challenged in the court because it is not a proof of having been employed.
In an establishment having certified Standing Orders, naturally, there should be included in the standing orders a clause how appointment order will be issued and therefore, in such organisation if an employee does not get appointment order before or on joining, the matter can be taken up as a violation of the process. But in a small establishment and in organisations not covered by Industrial Employment Standing Orders Act, unless and otherwise you do not have a written procedures/ HR Manual, you are out of all these formalities and you cannot demand the way you wish.
Despite all the above, I must say that by giving appointment order, the employer is establishing a legal relationship with the employee. Moreover, it is a sign of employer following a procedure. Therefore, the employer in question is a one man show person and by working for him you will be wasting your time and career. It is advisable to find some good job as soon as possible because this guy is going to be a problem maker for you and others who are employed there.
Madhu.T.K
From India, Kannur
In an establishment having certified Standing Orders, naturally, there should be included in the standing orders a clause how appointment order will be issued and therefore, in such organisation if an employee does not get appointment order before or on joining, the matter can be taken up as a violation of the process. But in a small establishment and in organisations not covered by Industrial Employment Standing Orders Act, unless and otherwise you do not have a written procedures/ HR Manual, you are out of all these formalities and you cannot demand the way you wish.
Despite all the above, I must say that by giving appointment order, the employer is establishing a legal relationship with the employee. Moreover, it is a sign of employer following a procedure. Therefore, the employer in question is a one man show person and by working for him you will be wasting your time and career. It is advisable to find some good job as soon as possible because this guy is going to be a problem maker for you and others who are employed there.
Madhu.T.K
From India, Kannur
A nice say by Madhu t.k. it is not only a one man show, it is also shows the non compliance of the basic human capabilities let not we talk about law and others factors..better get rid of such company and believe in you for a better job...
From India, Arcot
From India, Arcot
Thanx Madhu n Gopinath for the reply. Its not a small company. More than 1000 employees work here and they have pan India presence. They have presence over TV and sponsor International cricketing events. What I also want to know generally that thru any labor law is it not mandatory on company to issue appointent letter or it just depends on the management/owner, if he wishes, he will not issue it and its all ok, I cannot complaint anywhere. Please guide.
From India, New Delhi
From India, New Delhi
It is surprising that an establishment employing 1000 employees do not have a proper HR policy, that also basic things. As already stated by me, please see if your establishment is covered by Standing Order Act. Though Industrial Establishments Standing Orders Act was primarily meant for factories, many states have extended its applications to commercial establishments. I do not know the status of your state. If covered, naturally, the establishment should have a standing order which is a legal requirement. Under Standing Orders it becomes necessary for the establishment to say about appointment and they can not say that appointment is simply on mutual terms without any formal letters.
If the company is ISO certified one, again the system will be there and the external auditors would be keen to find the appointment orders in the personal files of each employee.
Madhu.T.K
From India, Kannur
If the company is ISO certified one, again the system will be there and the external auditors would be keen to find the appointment orders in the personal files of each employee.
Madhu.T.K
From India, Kannur
Hai uziel,
issue of not giving the appointment letter, other statutory provisions should be observe while employing the people.
When basic thing missing in the company means it quite natural that other provisions are also not in the company. It endangerous to the human also.
It is better to bring in the lime light at the early stage to safe guard for public life
From India, Visakhapatnam
issue of not giving the appointment letter, other statutory provisions should be observe while employing the people.
When basic thing missing in the company means it quite natural that other provisions are also not in the company. It endangerous to the human also.
It is better to bring in the lime light at the early stage to safe guard for public life
From India, Visakhapatnam
All senior member given an elaborate list of documents being in the personal file of employee.
I wish to add one more document which is needed in the private organisations is reference of persons made by the individual which is also gives the strength for file.
From India, Visakhapatnam
I wish to add one more document which is needed in the private organisations is reference of persons made by the individual which is also gives the strength for file.
From India, Visakhapatnam
Dear Friends ,
Mr Madhu has delat with it detail; correctly too. Contrary to perceptions , not issuing appointment letter is a risk
on the part of the employer. Pl carefully keep records as proof of working in those places.I have worked in such situations . Some people are very good.
Use such situations for learning and experience.In a country like India ,not all of us can get into established organisations.Please mind your development .
Regards,
R N Iyer
From India, Madras
Mr Madhu has delat with it detail; correctly too. Contrary to perceptions , not issuing appointment letter is a risk
on the part of the employer. Pl carefully keep records as proof of working in those places.I have worked in such situations . Some people are very good.
Use such situations for learning and experience.In a country like India ,not all of us can get into established organisations.Please mind your development .
Regards,
R N Iyer
From India, Madras
Dear Friends,
Where and in which Statute it is there an appointment order is a Must?. It is only a Standard for ISO, Exactly what benefit you get with an appointment Order?. in my opinion nothing. At the time of disputes or incidents it may work as an instant proof that you have worked in that establishment which may help you in getting applicability of Welfare Statutes. For that so many aspects are to prove it. Once the remuneration is in a continuous process it is a self explanatory for your employment.Mere not issuing of an Appointment Order is not a punishable crime of the Employer. . Labor Department can not make it mandatory. And no Indian courts interfere in this matters.I request the members to cite a precedent in this regards.PF Department made it mandatory to mention the PF Number on the Identity Card issued by the Employer. But not made it mandatory to issue an Identity Card. My line may hurt the members of Cite HR. But any one counters,that it will clear all my doubts also. All Statutes are silent on this Appointment Order Issue in Private Sector.
HRKPATI
Sr.Manager (HR & Legal)
From India, Guwahati
Where and in which Statute it is there an appointment order is a Must?. It is only a Standard for ISO, Exactly what benefit you get with an appointment Order?. in my opinion nothing. At the time of disputes or incidents it may work as an instant proof that you have worked in that establishment which may help you in getting applicability of Welfare Statutes. For that so many aspects are to prove it. Once the remuneration is in a continuous process it is a self explanatory for your employment.Mere not issuing of an Appointment Order is not a punishable crime of the Employer. . Labor Department can not make it mandatory. And no Indian courts interfere in this matters.I request the members to cite a precedent in this regards.PF Department made it mandatory to mention the PF Number on the Identity Card issued by the Employer. But not made it mandatory to issue an Identity Card. My line may hurt the members of Cite HR. But any one counters,that it will clear all my doubts also. All Statutes are silent on this Appointment Order Issue in Private Sector.
HRKPATI
Sr.Manager (HR & Legal)
From India, Guwahati
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