Dear Advocates,
I was working with one nationalized bank and got deputation to other govt. bank due to which I was posted to Dehradun, Utrakhand. As I belong to Karnataka, I started having health issues due extreme weather and stress. I applied for leaves out of which some are sanctioned but others were neither sanctioned nor rejected from central office end. but without confirmation they deducted my salary for those days that is too without any intimation to me. I was also denied my shifting allowance stating that I was on loss of pay during that period whereas half of period was sanctioned by them. very next month again I had to visit thrice in the space of 15days and took steroids for working. Thereafter as per doctor suggestion I went for some treatment. for which again I submitted my request for leaves which was again not answered by management. I tried to recover from my health issues but could not succeed. I had already submitted my request for transfer which was assured by management but there was no much progress. Finally seeing management attitude, I came back to my home state and applied for Reversal to my parent organization which was also not replied until today. I have some queries and I want to take legal against management. Kindly suggest.
Note: I am working as Assistant Branch Manager, did not sign any contract to come on deputation except willingness to work. I have more than 4 months leave in my credit after 6 years of working.
Queries :
1) Can medical leave be rejected without stating proper reason? even after submission of doctor certificate?
2) Can salary be deducted with out intimation of staff?
3) If staff has incurred some expenses to shift his/her luggage at working place then can management decline claim stating that staff was on loss of pay?
4) If sufficient nos of leave are available to staff still can he/she be made loss of pay?
5) If any staff wants reversal from deputation, can he/she be denied?
6) How to claim deducted salaries?
Please guide me in this regard. I may be contacted @ 9481335807-9590881822
From India, Mumbai
I was working with one nationalized bank and got deputation to other govt. bank due to which I was posted to Dehradun, Utrakhand. As I belong to Karnataka, I started having health issues due extreme weather and stress. I applied for leaves out of which some are sanctioned but others were neither sanctioned nor rejected from central office end. but without confirmation they deducted my salary for those days that is too without any intimation to me. I was also denied my shifting allowance stating that I was on loss of pay during that period whereas half of period was sanctioned by them. very next month again I had to visit thrice in the space of 15days and took steroids for working. Thereafter as per doctor suggestion I went for some treatment. for which again I submitted my request for leaves which was again not answered by management. I tried to recover from my health issues but could not succeed. I had already submitted my request for transfer which was assured by management but there was no much progress. Finally seeing management attitude, I came back to my home state and applied for Reversal to my parent organization which was also not replied until today. I have some queries and I want to take legal against management. Kindly suggest.
Note: I am working as Assistant Branch Manager, did not sign any contract to come on deputation except willingness to work. I have more than 4 months leave in my credit after 6 years of working.
Queries :
1) Can medical leave be rejected without stating proper reason? even after submission of doctor certificate?
2) Can salary be deducted with out intimation of staff?
3) If staff has incurred some expenses to shift his/her luggage at working place then can management decline claim stating that staff was on loss of pay?
4) If sufficient nos of leave are available to staff still can he/she be made loss of pay?
5) If any staff wants reversal from deputation, can he/she be denied?
6) How to claim deducted salaries?
Please guide me in this regard. I may be contacted @ 9481335807-9590881822
From India, Mumbai
The answer to all your queries 1 to 5 is NO
Point No. 6- I suggest you get in touch with your affiliated Union leader and put up your case to the management. This will give you more bargaining since you will be represented by a majority Union leader of your Bank (I presume you must be a member of some Union in your parent Bank). The bipartite provisions are more updated with Union people than outsiders I am sure they will be able to defend you strongly and get you justice. I also presume that Doctors certificate mentions the point that your illness started because of high altitude/weather changes that are detrimental to your health and body. Because otherwise the Management can proceed for termination of an employee on the grounds that he is perennially ill and not fit for duty.
Hope this helps
From India, Delhi
27Point No. 6- I suggest you get in touch with your affiliated Union leader and put up your case to the management. This will give you more bargaining since you will be represented by a majority Union leader of your Bank (I presume you must be a member of some Union in your parent Bank). The bipartite provisions are more updated with Union people than outsiders I am sure they will be able to defend you strongly and get you justice. I also presume that Doctors certificate mentions the point that your illness started because of high altitude/weather changes that are detrimental to your health and body. Because otherwise the Management can proceed for termination of an employee on the grounds that he is perennially ill and not fit for duty.
Hope this helps
From India, Delhi
Sir(s),
1. Apart from approaching your bank's union leaders, as mentioned by one of contributor as above, in my opinion, it is not clear as to how you were placed on deputation with another bank by your parent bank without your exercising an option for such deputation. In your remarks you have mentioned that you "did not sign any contract to come on deputation" . Whether it is necessary to sign a contract before proceeding to deputation as per rules on the subject.
2. However, in my opinion, everything will depend upon the deputation rules as are applicable in your case on the basis of which your deputation is regulated.
3. In my opinion, if you want, It will be more better if you study the applicable deputation rules and get the deputation cancelled as soon as possible and get repatriation to your parent bank.
4. I am not aware about the service including leave rules etc. as applicable in your case. But so far as Central Civil Services Rules( which are applicable in respect of staff and employees of the Central Government of India) are concerned, it is clearly mentioned that the sanction or grant of leave is not a matter of right and therefore, if any leave is not sanctioned as in your case by the competent authority, the drawing and disbursing officer of your office has every right to stop/withhold salary for the period of such leave. It will be very much important that you study in detail the service rules viz. Pay & allowances as well as deputation allowance, leave rules etc. which are presently applicable in your case due to such deputation and submit your representations to the appropriate authority for sanction of your leaves, for sanction of Travelling Allowance/shifting charges and repatriation to your parent bank.
From India, Noida
1. Apart from approaching your bank's union leaders, as mentioned by one of contributor as above, in my opinion, it is not clear as to how you were placed on deputation with another bank by your parent bank without your exercising an option for such deputation. In your remarks you have mentioned that you "did not sign any contract to come on deputation" . Whether it is necessary to sign a contract before proceeding to deputation as per rules on the subject.
2. However, in my opinion, everything will depend upon the deputation rules as are applicable in your case on the basis of which your deputation is regulated.
3. In my opinion, if you want, It will be more better if you study the applicable deputation rules and get the deputation cancelled as soon as possible and get repatriation to your parent bank.
4. I am not aware about the service including leave rules etc. as applicable in your case. But so far as Central Civil Services Rules( which are applicable in respect of staff and employees of the Central Government of India) are concerned, it is clearly mentioned that the sanction or grant of leave is not a matter of right and therefore, if any leave is not sanctioned as in your case by the competent authority, the drawing and disbursing officer of your office has every right to stop/withhold salary for the period of such leave. It will be very much important that you study in detail the service rules viz. Pay & allowances as well as deputation allowance, leave rules etc. which are presently applicable in your case due to such deputation and submit your representations to the appropriate authority for sanction of your leaves, for sanction of Travelling Allowance/shifting charges and repatriation to your parent bank.
From India, Noida
Dear Anubhav,
My opinions are -
1. Having accepted and joined duty at Dehradun it is established that you did agree to the terms of deputation. Though transfer within your co. is a matter of official exigencies which cannot be challenged except under special circumstances, deputation to other bank is not a matter of transfer but 'deputation'/lending of your service to other sister concern hence you may have a point, but you didn't have because you already accepted without expressive formal contract. I'm sure you were issued a deputation order with details of duty, allowances etc. at that time you didn't raise any alarm due to your own reasons.
2. Availing leave except on medical/emergency grounds is not a right of employee. However since you had health problems you should have approached thru' your official 'grievances redressal' system with the support of medical certificate, I'm not sure whether you did this exercise or not. Suggestions of other experts to take it up thru' your Union/ association also one option. But I don't hope you'll get your remedy because most of the officers' associations are pro management, I don't think your's will be an exception.
3. I know bank managers are working under severe strain you cannot complain because so are your friends in other sectors. Normally bank staff/officers are transferred once in three years. How many years you completed there, are you due for transfer from there in a normal course ? When is your term of deputation ends? There is thumb rule, it's a tendancy in most organisation regarding transfer voluntary/request transfers, ie., if you want a posting in Kerala you should request for a posting in Punjab or HP then you might be posted either in Coimbatore or in Kerala itself, like that your case also might work. But you have no choice because you are a well known aspirer.
4. Taking a legal course of action would depend on how strong your medical records are. But there is a catch what if you are declared unfit medically, come to worst you should be prepared to put down your papers. You might win on medical grounds but can be tortured thereafter driving you to quit. Choice is yours.
From India, Bangalore
My opinions are -
1. Having accepted and joined duty at Dehradun it is established that you did agree to the terms of deputation. Though transfer within your co. is a matter of official exigencies which cannot be challenged except under special circumstances, deputation to other bank is not a matter of transfer but 'deputation'/lending of your service to other sister concern hence you may have a point, but you didn't have because you already accepted without expressive formal contract. I'm sure you were issued a deputation order with details of duty, allowances etc. at that time you didn't raise any alarm due to your own reasons.
2. Availing leave except on medical/emergency grounds is not a right of employee. However since you had health problems you should have approached thru' your official 'grievances redressal' system with the support of medical certificate, I'm not sure whether you did this exercise or not. Suggestions of other experts to take it up thru' your Union/ association also one option. But I don't hope you'll get your remedy because most of the officers' associations are pro management, I don't think your's will be an exception.
3. I know bank managers are working under severe strain you cannot complain because so are your friends in other sectors. Normally bank staff/officers are transferred once in three years. How many years you completed there, are you due for transfer from there in a normal course ? When is your term of deputation ends? There is thumb rule, it's a tendancy in most organisation regarding transfer voluntary/request transfers, ie., if you want a posting in Kerala you should request for a posting in Punjab or HP then you might be posted either in Coimbatore or in Kerala itself, like that your case also might work. But you have no choice because you are a well known aspirer.
4. Taking a legal course of action would depend on how strong your medical records are. But there is a catch what if you are declared unfit medically, come to worst you should be prepared to put down your papers. You might win on medical grounds but can be tortured thereafter driving you to quit. Choice is yours.
From India, Bangalore
Dear Sir/s,
Yea, Indeed I had gone on deputation knowing the fact that I ll be posted to such areas but was unaware of such extreme health issues. I mentioned that I had not signed any contract and they had just mentioned that deputation is for 3 years which may be extended as per need of management. About allowances it was one scale higher to my present scale. There was no other details available in deputation order. I had no problem to work any where in India as I am a bank employee and liable to be transferred in every 3 years. I just wanted to be shifted from Dehradun as it was very difficult for me to keep my health good. I have been denied Sick Leave that is too without any intimation what I feel is wrong doing from management side, Giving me transfer, reversal all may be in their hands but when I suffered at that place then at least my salary should be paid. I have enough balance of leave to support my absence and I informed management every now and then about my leaves still they mailed me that it would be considered as unauthorized absence.
There is no union in new organisation. I am planning to file RTI to get details. Please guide me in this regard.
Thanks all people for their valuable suggestions.
From India, Mumbai
Yea, Indeed I had gone on deputation knowing the fact that I ll be posted to such areas but was unaware of such extreme health issues. I mentioned that I had not signed any contract and they had just mentioned that deputation is for 3 years which may be extended as per need of management. About allowances it was one scale higher to my present scale. There was no other details available in deputation order. I had no problem to work any where in India as I am a bank employee and liable to be transferred in every 3 years. I just wanted to be shifted from Dehradun as it was very difficult for me to keep my health good. I have been denied Sick Leave that is too without any intimation what I feel is wrong doing from management side, Giving me transfer, reversal all may be in their hands but when I suffered at that place then at least my salary should be paid. I have enough balance of leave to support my absence and I informed management every now and then about my leaves still they mailed me that it would be considered as unauthorized absence.
There is no union in new organisation. I am planning to file RTI to get details. Please guide me in this regard.
Thanks all people for their valuable suggestions.
From India, Mumbai
Dear Sir/s,
Yea, Indeed I had gone on deputation knowing the fact that I ll be posted to such areas but was unaware of such extreme health issues. I mentioned that I had not signed any contract and they had just mentioned that deputation is for 3 years which may be extended as per need of management. About allowances it was one scale higher to my present scale. There was no other details available in deputation order. I had no problem to work any where in India as I am a bank employee and liable to be transferred in every 3 years. I just wanted to be shifted from Dehradun as it was very difficult for me to keep my health good. I have been denied Sick Leave that is too without any intimation what I feel is wrong doing from management side, Giving me transfer, reversal all may be in their hands but when I suffered at that place then at least my salary should be paid. I have enough balance of leave to support my absence and I informed management every now and then about my leaves still they mailed me that it would be considered as unauthorized absence.
There is no union in new organisation. I am planning to file RTI to get details. Please guide me in this regard.
Thanks all people for their valuable suggestions.
From India, Mumbai
Yea, Indeed I had gone on deputation knowing the fact that I ll be posted to such areas but was unaware of such extreme health issues. I mentioned that I had not signed any contract and they had just mentioned that deputation is for 3 years which may be extended as per need of management. About allowances it was one scale higher to my present scale. There was no other details available in deputation order. I had no problem to work any where in India as I am a bank employee and liable to be transferred in every 3 years. I just wanted to be shifted from Dehradun as it was very difficult for me to keep my health good. I have been denied Sick Leave that is too without any intimation what I feel is wrong doing from management side, Giving me transfer, reversal all may be in their hands but when I suffered at that place then at least my salary should be paid. I have enough balance of leave to support my absence and I informed management every now and then about my leaves still they mailed me that it would be considered as unauthorized absence.
There is no union in new organisation. I am planning to file RTI to get details. Please guide me in this regard.
Thanks all people for their valuable suggestions.
From India, Mumbai
Sir,
1. RTI is useful where any information is withheld from any person and he want to get the desired information. Further in RTI you cannot put questions, cannot make enquiries viz. you cannot ask as to why your leave of any kind has not been sanctioned by the competent authority even though sufficient leaves were in your account.
2. In my remarks earlier in this thread, I have already suggested you to examine the leave rules or other rules which are applicable in your case after now your posting on deputation and take action accordingly.
3. Courts viz. Central Administrative Tribunals do not entertain such applications on the issues which are within the discretion of the authorities for example transfer postings, sanction of leaves etc.
From India, Noida
1. RTI is useful where any information is withheld from any person and he want to get the desired information. Further in RTI you cannot put questions, cannot make enquiries viz. you cannot ask as to why your leave of any kind has not been sanctioned by the competent authority even though sufficient leaves were in your account.
2. In my remarks earlier in this thread, I have already suggested you to examine the leave rules or other rules which are applicable in your case after now your posting on deputation and take action accordingly.
3. Courts viz. Central Administrative Tribunals do not entertain such applications on the issues which are within the discretion of the authorities for example transfer postings, sanction of leaves etc.
From India, Noida
1. If there is enough leave under your belt they cannot treat it as without pay, especially if you have informed and got back with relevant medical certificates
2. Union means Union of your parent Bank not new bank where you are on deputation
3. Willingness to accept deputation might not necessarily be in the form of written contract, mere acceptance of deputation is enough.
4. Get doctors certificate to certify health hazard in present posting so that transfer request can be justified
5 Again I reiterate contact your Union, they are the best and safer bet under these circumstances.
6. Forget RTI do not precipitate the matter, contact the organisation above who can help (unless u have a strained and conflicting relationship with them).
7. With leave to your credit they cannot deny you leave under valid medical certificate.
8. Unauthorized leave is when you have no leave balance or your leave was refused in writing and you prefer to proceed on leave nevertheless, or when your medical certificates have been challenged and proven untenable.
8. Medical certificate can be challenged by the management, but in that case they have to refer you to a civil surgeon, which from your post doesn't seem to be the case till now.
9. However should you ultimately prefer to slog it out with the management, be prepared for more victimization justified through the rule book
Hope this helps
From India, Delhi
2. Union means Union of your parent Bank not new bank where you are on deputation
3. Willingness to accept deputation might not necessarily be in the form of written contract, mere acceptance of deputation is enough.
4. Get doctors certificate to certify health hazard in present posting so that transfer request can be justified
5 Again I reiterate contact your Union, they are the best and safer bet under these circumstances.
6. Forget RTI do not precipitate the matter, contact the organisation above who can help (unless u have a strained and conflicting relationship with them).
7. With leave to your credit they cannot deny you leave under valid medical certificate.
8. Unauthorized leave is when you have no leave balance or your leave was refused in writing and you prefer to proceed on leave nevertheless, or when your medical certificates have been challenged and proven untenable.
8. Medical certificate can be challenged by the management, but in that case they have to refer you to a civil surgeon, which from your post doesn't seem to be the case till now.
9. However should you ultimately prefer to slog it out with the management, be prepared for more victimization justified through the rule book
Hope this helps
From India, Delhi
Dear Anubhav,
You know better your Association, what is their bargaining power et al. Knowing well you should carefully choose what you should pursue. Why don't you give a try, directly approach the person who denied the leave, strike an amicable settlement, try to convince him to withdraw their action of recovery as LOP/re. your predicament and harsh punishment handed down to you, compromise on certain issues, give and take, this will save your stress. After all only another few months, manage some how. This will cost nothing, you are not going to be dethroned by seeking someone's pardon, even if you have to submit an apology letter do it for the sake of saving your job. And part as friends once you complete your tenure on deputation, after all your performance during deputation not likely to going to carry much weightage on your career appraisal. This I'm suggesting on the plea that I strongly feel toeing confrontation line of action in officers level may not bear fruits. I think even Adm.Tribunal is out of bounds for bankers. Only choice is you have to exhaust your Grievance Redressal Process and then take to courts which is going to be a very long drawn process. May be you should revert back to your parent bank terminating the Deputation sojourn, send an application to your appropriate authority and try your luck. If possible try to seek help from some of your well wishers in 'calling you back' from deputation. So weigh all options and take a decision. All the best pal.
From India, Bangalore
You know better your Association, what is their bargaining power et al. Knowing well you should carefully choose what you should pursue. Why don't you give a try, directly approach the person who denied the leave, strike an amicable settlement, try to convince him to withdraw their action of recovery as LOP/re. your predicament and harsh punishment handed down to you, compromise on certain issues, give and take, this will save your stress. After all only another few months, manage some how. This will cost nothing, you are not going to be dethroned by seeking someone's pardon, even if you have to submit an apology letter do it for the sake of saving your job. And part as friends once you complete your tenure on deputation, after all your performance during deputation not likely to going to carry much weightage on your career appraisal. This I'm suggesting on the plea that I strongly feel toeing confrontation line of action in officers level may not bear fruits. I think even Adm.Tribunal is out of bounds for bankers. Only choice is you have to exhaust your Grievance Redressal Process and then take to courts which is going to be a very long drawn process. May be you should revert back to your parent bank terminating the Deputation sojourn, send an application to your appropriate authority and try your luck. If possible try to seek help from some of your well wishers in 'calling you back' from deputation. So weigh all options and take a decision. All the best pal.
From India, Bangalore
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