Dear All,
Kindly advise whether one department of an organization can be registered as a trade union. If yes, is it mandatory for a company to recognize such a union, as the union is being formed to threaten the organization to take any disciplinary action against the employees, even when they are wrong or not working in accordance with the company policy? Kindly advise on how to deal with such employees or union. They are not even 1/10 of the company's manpower strength; the rest of the employees are not in their support.
Thanks & Regards,
C.M. Mohla
From India, Delhi
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19Kindly advise whether one department of an organization can be registered as a trade union. If yes, is it mandatory for a company to recognize such a union, as the union is being formed to threaten the organization to take any disciplinary action against the employees, even when they are wrong or not working in accordance with the company policy? Kindly advise on how to deal with such employees or union. They are not even 1/10 of the company's manpower strength; the rest of the employees are not in their support.
Thanks & Regards,
C.M. Mohla
From India, Delhi
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Dear Mohla,
Please approach the Labour Commissioner's Office, who is the registrar of Trade Unions, with all the data and proof of that trade union, and appraise them not to register it under the Trade Union Act. Further, you can create your own supporters to register themselves as two Trade Unions and make the members join those unions. Keep both the Unions under your control and do not cut the privileges of any workers for any reason. Please do it without the knowledge of others, and after registration, bring the same to the notice of the workers. Whatever happens, please keep informing the Management. Keep all records and details strictly secret.
If you work proactively, you can break the backbone of the agitators and those who act against the company and workers. Keep informed about the progress of the problems so that our members can guide you from time to time.
Wish you all the best.
From India, Kumbakonam
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Please approach the Labour Commissioner's Office, who is the registrar of Trade Unions, with all the data and proof of that trade union, and appraise them not to register it under the Trade Union Act. Further, you can create your own supporters to register themselves as two Trade Unions and make the members join those unions. Keep both the Unions under your control and do not cut the privileges of any workers for any reason. Please do it without the knowledge of others, and after registration, bring the same to the notice of the workers. Whatever happens, please keep informing the Management. Keep all records and details strictly secret.
If you work proactively, you can break the backbone of the agitators and those who act against the company and workers. Keep informed about the progress of the problems so that our members can guide you from time to time.
Wish you all the best.
From India, Kumbakonam
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Dear Mr. Bhaskar,
Kindly elaborate on what data I should provide to the Labour Commissioner's officer. We, as an employer, never cut the privileges of any worker. Actually, these employees are miscreants, and they are brainwashing other employees as well. They don't work properly, and if we exert some pressure, they go on long ESI leaves. Now, when we are talking to ESI officials about this, they are planning to form a union and unnecessarily pollute the environment of our organization and exert pressure on us so that no disciplinary action should be taken against them. What are the other steps we can take if they succeed in forming a union?
Kindly advise.
Thanks & Regards,
C.M. Mohla
From India, Delhi
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Kindly elaborate on what data I should provide to the Labour Commissioner's officer. We, as an employer, never cut the privileges of any worker. Actually, these employees are miscreants, and they are brainwashing other employees as well. They don't work properly, and if we exert some pressure, they go on long ESI leaves. Now, when we are talking to ESI officials about this, they are planning to form a union and unnecessarily pollute the environment of our organization and exert pressure on us so that no disciplinary action should be taken against them. What are the other steps we can take if they succeed in forming a union?
Kindly advise.
Thanks & Regards,
C.M. Mohla
From India, Delhi
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Dear cmmohla,
Kindly advise whether one department of an organization can be registered as a trade union. If yes, is it mandatory for a company to recognize such a union as the union is being formed to threaten the organization to take any disciplinary action against the employees, even when they are wrong or not working in accordance with company policy? Kindly advise on how to deal with such employees or union. They are not even 1/10 of the company's manpower strength; the rest of the employees are not in their support.
Thanks & Regards,
C.M. Mohla
From India, Salem
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Kindly advise whether one department of an organization can be registered as a trade union. If yes, is it mandatory for a company to recognize such a union as the union is being formed to threaten the organization to take any disciplinary action against the employees, even when they are wrong or not working in accordance with company policy? Kindly advise on how to deal with such employees or union. They are not even 1/10 of the company's manpower strength; the rest of the employees are not in their support.
Thanks & Regards,
C.M. Mohla
From India, Salem
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The outdated laws are not keeping up with the times, which is hampering progress. We, as a nation, need to introspect and decide how long we will carry the burden on our necks, harming our progress seriously.
Once a group decides to wreck the organization, the management is pretty much left to fend for itself. The person trying to discipline the workers would be the first target. Management would happily sacrifice him to buy temporary peace.
Hence, proceed with caution. Don't become a scapegoat.
From India, Thane
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Once a group decides to wreck the organization, the management is pretty much left to fend for itself. The person trying to discipline the workers would be the first target. Management would happily sacrifice him to buy temporary peace.
Hence, proceed with caution. Don't become a scapegoat.
From India, Thane
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Hi Members,
According to the Indian Trade Union Act, to register or establish a union in an organization, people willing to join the union must be 10% of the total workforce (labour) if only 100 workers are employed. Otherwise, a minimum of 100 workers strength is needed if the company population is more than 100. Similarly, an organization can have any number of registered trade unions if the above conditions are met.
Also, to run the trade union in the organization, the following point is important:
A registered trade union of workmen shall at all times continue to have not less than 10% or 100 of the workmen, whichever is less, subject to a minimum of 7 persons engaged or employed in the establishment or industry with which it is connected, as its members.
Above is the law. Usually, workers threaten employers only if they are not satisfied or mistrust the employer. My organization is 30 years old but still a small-scale industry. This is partially because of union problems. Try avoiding them joining the union by forming an employer welfare team and attending to their needs immediately. This will work. For the past seven years, we have avoided strike or union trouble by doing it. All the best.
I have only 8 months of experience in the HR field, but I have developed a good relationship with all types of workers only by attending to their real needs. Hope this finds you useful.
Members, please correct me if I'm wrong. Thank you.
From India, Chennai
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According to the Indian Trade Union Act, to register or establish a union in an organization, people willing to join the union must be 10% of the total workforce (labour) if only 100 workers are employed. Otherwise, a minimum of 100 workers strength is needed if the company population is more than 100. Similarly, an organization can have any number of registered trade unions if the above conditions are met.
Also, to run the trade union in the organization, the following point is important:
A registered trade union of workmen shall at all times continue to have not less than 10% or 100 of the workmen, whichever is less, subject to a minimum of 7 persons engaged or employed in the establishment or industry with which it is connected, as its members.
Above is the law. Usually, workers threaten employers only if they are not satisfied or mistrust the employer. My organization is 30 years old but still a small-scale industry. This is partially because of union problems. Try avoiding them joining the union by forming an employer welfare team and attending to their needs immediately. This will work. For the past seven years, we have avoided strike or union trouble by doing it. All the best.
I have only 8 months of experience in the HR field, but I have developed a good relationship with all types of workers only by attending to their real needs. Hope this finds you useful.
Members, please correct me if I'm wrong. Thank you.
From India, Chennai
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Any employee or outsider claiming support of workmen can drag you to the labor court, abuse you there, and threaten physical harm. The only remedy you have is through filing an FIR. Labour authorities will entertain any number of complaints repeatedly on the same subject. Your time, your prestige, and your well-being are of no interest to them. As long as you take care of their welfare, it is your duty. The moment you remind them of their responsibilities, you become their personal enemy and fair game for all. If you are a naive HR person, it is better to become wiser now and ensure you don't annoy both the workers and management. All the best.
From India, Thane
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From India, Thane
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Please provide the nature of work performed by those workers. Forming a union is employees' rights, and employers cannot neglect it. Once a union is established in an organization, then nothing can be done about it as it is always influenced by political and union leaders, etc. To avoid a union, employers must act accordingly.
Option 1: Attend to their needs, solve the problem, and reduce the tension.
Option 2: If you are lucky to avoid a union in your organization and still feel your employees will join the union in the future, then I advise you to bring all your workers under contract labor.
From India, Chennai
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Option 1: Attend to their needs, solve the problem, and reduce the tension.
Option 2: If you are lucky to avoid a union in your organization and still feel your employees will join the union in the future, then I advise you to bring all your workers under contract labor.
From India, Chennai
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The questioner has not come forward so far to frankly present the actual reasons for the present development as well as additional important details such as the age of the industrial establishment and the nature of its manufactory, total strength of permanent workmen and their average age, the number of contract labour and casuals engaged and the nature of activities of such indirect engagement, existence of any union in the establishment. In the absence of any trade union, the practice of determination of monetary benefits such as wages, bonus and periodicity of their revision followed all along, the welfare amenities provided to the workmen, the system of grievance redressal put in place, the system of disciplinary control in vogue and its impact on work culture and bilateral relations and the like. Without knowing all these things, the advice tendered by the learned members - some of whom do seem to have bitter past experience in this regard and some others have an artificial sense of gratification by applying the principles of situational management dictated by sheer common sense - looks like directing the sailor to steer fast across the tip of an iceberg.
Employment, in its narrowest sense, is a means of livelihood. So, people who let themselves under the disposal of the employer come to earn their livelihood rather than to fight against him. Still, if a fight or conflict arises, it means that either of them or at times both may be greedy and inconsiderate. Therefore, it is imperative for the questioner's top management to make some dispassionate introspection into the entire goings-on and find out whether the agitative mind-set is confined to a particular section because of any specific adversity pertaining only to it or to the entire workforce and take remedial measures to set things right.
Trade Unions are everywhere. Can anyone cite any country or economy sans Trade Union? Of course, its effective role-play is getting gradually diluted in the era of Globalization and Privatization. But, it does not mean that the Trade Union is an obstacle to progress if the progress is not lopsided. When the employer has the magnanimity to accept his labor as one of the stakeholders of his industry and the honesty to address their concern transparently, he will recognize the Trade Union as a parallel Institution for conflict resolution. So, the management should not be unnecessarily scared of the Union Leaders whether external or otherwise for they are not from an alien planet and they are aware of the limits of elasticity of concessions that can be granted by the management.
If experience with any Trade Union is bitter in the matter of conflict resolution, the pointers will certainly lead to extraneous reasons like politics, intellectual arrogance, personal hidden agenda, etc. One friend pointed out that our Labor Laws are obstacles to progress. I am not able to understand how he has come to such a drastic conclusion. If the provisions of some of the Laws are highly regulatory and prohibitive, it is only because of the circumstances prevailing then. Can anyone say such circumstances of exploitation in the forms of indirect employment for years together as trainees or off-roll employees or fixed-term appointments, closing the places of employment in a particular location suddenly with a simple notice of "suspension of operations" and starting a fresh one elsewhere with residential apprentices and residual casual labor on pittance wages, outsourcing the major chunk of the workforce under the guise of contract labor whose specialty is that the labor will be the same but the contractors would change in rotation, framing wage structures in such a way that the liability of the employer would be minimal in terms of terminal benefits of the employees and so on so forth.
In such a sordid state of affairs involving questions of law, economics, and ethics, I don't understand how one can decry the representation of outsiders in Trade Union. If the employer's attitude and response are the sum product of probity, fairness, and concern for the employees' welfare in tandem with the industry's future backed by his business acumen, no union would dare to betray him. Mr. Mohli, don't try to indirectly float a rival union in support of the management for class consciousness cannot be so easily eliminated. It would be similar to that of a young bachelor being scared of the torments of family life becoming a sanyasin and then running an ashram and orphanage.
From India, Salem
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Employment, in its narrowest sense, is a means of livelihood. So, people who let themselves under the disposal of the employer come to earn their livelihood rather than to fight against him. Still, if a fight or conflict arises, it means that either of them or at times both may be greedy and inconsiderate. Therefore, it is imperative for the questioner's top management to make some dispassionate introspection into the entire goings-on and find out whether the agitative mind-set is confined to a particular section because of any specific adversity pertaining only to it or to the entire workforce and take remedial measures to set things right.
Trade Unions are everywhere. Can anyone cite any country or economy sans Trade Union? Of course, its effective role-play is getting gradually diluted in the era of Globalization and Privatization. But, it does not mean that the Trade Union is an obstacle to progress if the progress is not lopsided. When the employer has the magnanimity to accept his labor as one of the stakeholders of his industry and the honesty to address their concern transparently, he will recognize the Trade Union as a parallel Institution for conflict resolution. So, the management should not be unnecessarily scared of the Union Leaders whether external or otherwise for they are not from an alien planet and they are aware of the limits of elasticity of concessions that can be granted by the management.
If experience with any Trade Union is bitter in the matter of conflict resolution, the pointers will certainly lead to extraneous reasons like politics, intellectual arrogance, personal hidden agenda, etc. One friend pointed out that our Labor Laws are obstacles to progress. I am not able to understand how he has come to such a drastic conclusion. If the provisions of some of the Laws are highly regulatory and prohibitive, it is only because of the circumstances prevailing then. Can anyone say such circumstances of exploitation in the forms of indirect employment for years together as trainees or off-roll employees or fixed-term appointments, closing the places of employment in a particular location suddenly with a simple notice of "suspension of operations" and starting a fresh one elsewhere with residential apprentices and residual casual labor on pittance wages, outsourcing the major chunk of the workforce under the guise of contract labor whose specialty is that the labor will be the same but the contractors would change in rotation, framing wage structures in such a way that the liability of the employer would be minimal in terms of terminal benefits of the employees and so on so forth.
In such a sordid state of affairs involving questions of law, economics, and ethics, I don't understand how one can decry the representation of outsiders in Trade Union. If the employer's attitude and response are the sum product of probity, fairness, and concern for the employees' welfare in tandem with the industry's future backed by his business acumen, no union would dare to betray him. Mr. Mohli, don't try to indirectly float a rival union in support of the management for class consciousness cannot be so easily eliminated. It would be similar to that of a young bachelor being scared of the torments of family life becoming a sanyasin and then running an ashram and orphanage.
From India, Salem
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Any 7 workers can form a union as per the Trade Union Act. Management has to agree upon the registered union. Please follow the Trade Union Act. Unions are not always anti-management. But you have to control the indiscipline and work on building a culture.
Steps to Follow:
1. First, check with which external union they want to get registered.
2. Whether the external union is from the ruling party of the state/locality.
3. If it is a ruling party, then discuss or try to convince them and ask them not to provide support.
4. Discuss with your local labor department; show them if you have issued any chargesheets. You can also show cause them if they are against the policy. Follow the Model Standing Orders if you don't have certified standing orders.
5. Try to gather the majority of other workers' views in writing regarding forming a union and submit to the DLC and external union if desired.
Keep your management informed.
Regards,
PS
From India, Bangalore
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Steps to Follow:
1. First, check with which external union they want to get registered.
2. Whether the external union is from the ruling party of the state/locality.
3. If it is a ruling party, then discuss or try to convince them and ask them not to provide support.
4. Discuss with your local labor department; show them if you have issued any chargesheets. You can also show cause them if they are against the policy. Follow the Model Standing Orders if you don't have certified standing orders.
5. Try to gather the majority of other workers' views in writing regarding forming a union and submit to the DLC and external union if desired.
Keep your management informed.
Regards,
PS
From India, Bangalore
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