Hi All
I would like to gain some views from my HR colleagues on the under please;
1. Is an organisation liable to pay gratuity to an employee being terminated for Fraud in the organisation assuming the employee has completed the required period?
2. If yes is the organisation liable to pay the full amount assuming the employee has completed the required time period?
Any other thread on the same please do comment .
reg
Supriya
From India
I would like to gain some views from my HR colleagues on the under please;
1. Is an organisation liable to pay gratuity to an employee being terminated for Fraud in the organisation assuming the employee has completed the required period?
2. If yes is the organisation liable to pay the full amount assuming the employee has completed the required time period?
Any other thread on the same please do comment .
reg
Supriya
From India
An employee terminated for fraud is entitled to get gratuity if he is qualified to get it by means of his service. Section 4(6) provides that gratuity can be forfeited only in such cases wherein the employee has been dismissed from service on charges involving moral turpitude. Similarly, the forfeiture of gratuity can be done if the employer has incurred any loss due to negligence or wilful omission on the part of the employee causing damage to the properties belonging to the employer. Therefore, if you have conducted an enquiry before terminating the employee on the charges of fraud and you have determined the amount lost by the company, that amount shall be recovered from the gratuity. Before deducting any amount from the gratuity payable, make sure that you had terminated the employee after carrying out a proper enquiry following the principles of natural justice.
Madhu.T.K
From India, Kannur
4248Madhu.T.K
From India, Kannur
Mr.Madhu.T.K
The information is not advice to management,I am expessing my status/ honest opinion.
I was working as Asst.Gen.Manager(engineering & project) since 2007 in public sector company.
In mid of project management transferred to marketing as Asst.Gen.Manager -pharma( medicine) marketing.
Made to worke as a manager job responsibilities for one year (depromated post with out charge sheet & enquiry).
Later management forced to work as Medical representative (Lowest depromated post in marketing department with out any enquiry) for anther year..in daily reports I was keep asking for GM-marketing & lower staff also company infrastructure.. But management replied no support will be given.
At last... after 2 yrs mental & physical harassment (my opinion)and salary reduction by LOP on a/c non reciept of daily work reports by post for many months without giving valid reasons....it seems daily reports sent by personal ID emails are not considered as leagal document as attendance (note,: Intialy on Manger post many months mail reports are recognized as attendance )
In last March 16, some officer came to cross check my work in NE region of India & he was trying to find mistake to charge sheet me & threatened to sign wrong report.. but I denied & vacated the place by sending mail for official reason(the official reason is management is not provided GM-marketing position status & supporting infrastructure).
Since last March16, I was not reported to duty irrespective of many reminder letters from company (As I was mentally dippressed and threated by reporting officer,that I will be given attender further Lowest post at age of 52,
GM-marketing has given in writing that any kind of leaves will not be sanctioned,even earlier sick leaves are not sanctioned.
Now in January 16 company HRD has applied appointment letter clause I.e
"Any employee is absent from duty without senior approval for 10 days,it is considered as self termination "
So company settled my dues the way they want .I.e..March16,salary was paid in January16 and gratuity amount check received late.
Company has taken decision without conducting enquiry/chargesheet/suspension etc,with mear clause of appointment letter & settled my a/c( I have signed the appointment letter as token of reciept no legal bond is signed)
Now I in privet job market as engineer of 25yrs experience & 2 years experience in pharmaceutical medicine marketing.. So industry is not accepting as a engineer or experienced marketing candidate.
This company has ruined my next 8 yrs of career ,now in pvt job market neither experienced engineer nor Hard core Marketing person.
Note:
For the last 8 yrs I have clean records in company book but I was due for promotion.
WHOMS EVER IT MAY CONCERNED.
The above is true with best of knowledge
Nither I am promoting good or bad about company, As a citizen I am just expressing my views/opinions.
The above information is not binded leagaly as company is public sector unit under ministry of chemical & fertilizer,may be right in taking decions as per rules & I don't know the company standing order/CDA rule book.
The contents is not concerned any the same may be ignored/deleted.
Mr.Madhu,This sort of termination by company without issuing termination letter in writing
Just removing employee from role justified by ,can you pls advice relief.
From India, Bangalore
The information is not advice to management,I am expessing my status/ honest opinion.
I was working as Asst.Gen.Manager(engineering & project) since 2007 in public sector company.
In mid of project management transferred to marketing as Asst.Gen.Manager -pharma( medicine) marketing.
Made to worke as a manager job responsibilities for one year (depromated post with out charge sheet & enquiry).
Later management forced to work as Medical representative (Lowest depromated post in marketing department with out any enquiry) for anther year..in daily reports I was keep asking for GM-marketing & lower staff also company infrastructure.. But management replied no support will be given.
At last... after 2 yrs mental & physical harassment (my opinion)and salary reduction by LOP on a/c non reciept of daily work reports by post for many months without giving valid reasons....it seems daily reports sent by personal ID emails are not considered as leagal document as attendance (note,: Intialy on Manger post many months mail reports are recognized as attendance )
In last March 16, some officer came to cross check my work in NE region of India & he was trying to find mistake to charge sheet me & threatened to sign wrong report.. but I denied & vacated the place by sending mail for official reason(the official reason is management is not provided GM-marketing position status & supporting infrastructure).
Since last March16, I was not reported to duty irrespective of many reminder letters from company (As I was mentally dippressed and threated by reporting officer,that I will be given attender further Lowest post at age of 52,
GM-marketing has given in writing that any kind of leaves will not be sanctioned,even earlier sick leaves are not sanctioned.
Now in January 16 company HRD has applied appointment letter clause I.e
"Any employee is absent from duty without senior approval for 10 days,it is considered as self termination "
So company settled my dues the way they want .I.e..March16,salary was paid in January16 and gratuity amount check received late.
Company has taken decision without conducting enquiry/chargesheet/suspension etc,with mear clause of appointment letter & settled my a/c( I have signed the appointment letter as token of reciept no legal bond is signed)
Now I in privet job market as engineer of 25yrs experience & 2 years experience in pharmaceutical medicine marketing.. So industry is not accepting as a engineer or experienced marketing candidate.
This company has ruined my next 8 yrs of career ,now in pvt job market neither experienced engineer nor Hard core Marketing person.
Note:
For the last 8 yrs I have clean records in company book but I was due for promotion.
WHOMS EVER IT MAY CONCERNED.
The above is true with best of knowledge
Nither I am promoting good or bad about company, As a citizen I am just expressing my views/opinions.
The above information is not binded leagaly as company is public sector unit under ministry of chemical & fertilizer,may be right in taking decions as per rules & I don't know the company standing order/CDA rule book.
The contents is not concerned any the same may be ignored/deleted.
Mr.Madhu,This sort of termination by company without issuing termination letter in writing
Just removing employee from role justified by ,can you pls advice relief.
From India, Bangalore
I don't think that your grievance has anything to do with the thread we are following here, ie, payment of gratuity to employee terminated. You have received gratuity and full and final settlement amount. Then the issue is whether the termination was illegal or not. In the case of Managers and persons having managerial powers, the only remedy available is to file a civil suit and they cannot get the protection of Industrial Disputes Act. In your case, I am sure that there should be proper records and evidences against you and the management should have used that records to demote you from the post of GM and or transfer you to Marketing etc. On termination itself you should have questioned it and obtained stay for the same. Now, you have accepted the F&F and everything is closed. At the same time, at the time of your termination if you were designated as Sales Representative or some thing like that and if you were without any reportees under you, then you have still a chance of getting protection of Sales Promotion Employees (Conditions of Service)Act under which a sales promotion employee cannot be terminated without giving him an opportunity of being heard.
Madhu.T.K
From India, Kannur
Madhu.T.K
From India, Kannur
Sir..
Kindly note the following points.
1.my salary slips marked as GM-PHARMA MARKETING-
Even they have made me work alone as MR
Many reminder sent asking for staff & infrastructure, but refused in letter.
Notice or demotion letter issued for last 8 yrs
HRD has conducted only one appraisal while service confirmation & after that no appraisal are made, regular annual increments given.
Till to day I clear records in books,but this F&F without
Enquiry is error..?
Even the if internal records are made with HOD
That is without my knowledge & signature.
2.I a have not given any official termination letter,but on selftemination Clauses Gratuity is paid.
Since selftemination Clauses applied after 8 months, so my economic conditions made to encashment,
Since there is no formal termination letter along with releaving letter/service letter, it malsfide transfer & harassment..?
Kindly find attachment for further discussion & advice.
From India, Bangalore
Kindly note the following points.
1.my salary slips marked as GM-PHARMA MARKETING-
Even they have made me work alone as MR
Many reminder sent asking for staff & infrastructure, but refused in letter.
Notice or demotion letter issued for last 8 yrs
HRD has conducted only one appraisal while service confirmation & after that no appraisal are made, regular annual increments given.
Till to day I clear records in books,but this F&F without
Enquiry is error..?
Even the if internal records are made with HOD
That is without my knowledge & signature.
2.I a have not given any official termination letter,but on selftemination Clauses Gratuity is paid.
Since selftemination Clauses applied after 8 months, so my economic conditions made to encashment,
Since there is no formal termination letter along with releaving letter/service letter, it malsfide transfer & harassment..?
Kindly find attachment for further discussion & advice.
From India, Bangalore
You have been working as GM Marketing
To which post and with what functions you were demoted
It has been quite a long 8 years that you have been in the present position and that also without any letter
That means you are GM only
ID Act is meant for workers and not for managers
In the case of workers even termination following the the clause in the appointment order that an employee absenting without intimation shall be terminated without notice will not stand
In the case of Managers, the law presumes that they have freedom of expressing their grievances before the Management and there is no need of any further opportunity before any action is taken
In the case of managers it is presumed that they have in mind what are their duties and responsibilities and they should be worried about what will happen to the business if they absent themselves for 8 days (say) continuously without intimation.
Hence termination without holding enquiry would not be required
Still, on termination you should have been served a notice of termination
Since you have not returned the gratuity cheque, the termination of contract of employment based on which only gratuity will be paid is taken for granted.
Madhu.T.K
From India, Kannur
To which post and with what functions you were demoted
It has been quite a long 8 years that you have been in the present position and that also without any letter
That means you are GM only
ID Act is meant for workers and not for managers
In the case of workers even termination following the the clause in the appointment order that an employee absenting without intimation shall be terminated without notice will not stand
In the case of Managers, the law presumes that they have freedom of expressing their grievances before the Management and there is no need of any further opportunity before any action is taken
In the case of managers it is presumed that they have in mind what are their duties and responsibilities and they should be worried about what will happen to the business if they absent themselves for 8 days (say) continuously without intimation.
Hence termination without holding enquiry would not be required
Still, on termination you should have been served a notice of termination
Since you have not returned the gratuity cheque, the termination of contract of employment based on which only gratuity will be paid is taken for granted.
Madhu.T.K
From India, Kannur
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