Hello MM:
>have ever done an ROI on training. <
That is not what I do.
>1) I think it is quit Utopian to think that all employees will be successful after training.<
That is the point of my message.
It may be utopian for you but not for employers who know how to hire and train successful employees. Job failure after training should be a rare event.
>Even if it were so then the ROI will let us know how much difference has the training made in that success. E.g. if an employee was producing X in Y hrs and now has started producing Z, it is worthwhile to study how much of Z-X has happened because of training.<
Yes, I know the ins and outs of ROIs but managers hide behind ROIs because they do not trust trainers to provide training that works--far too many trainees fail to become successful employees after training. That said, training failures are almost always the fault of the hiring manager not the training department.
>2) All training programs being a 100% successful is Utopian again.<
What if it isn't?
> You do not seem to accept the fact that things can go wrong or deviate from planned output for very many factors not always under your control.<
When we stop training the wrong people training success soars.
>Also, ROI is not about whether the training is successful or not; that is a relative term and what you might term as successful may not be the same as my definition. ROI is about what difference the training has made in fiscal terms, even negative, and what changes, modifications, improvements we can make.<
Would an ROI be easier if all trainees were successful after training?
>Hope this helps in your understanding of ROI and remove some of the biases against it.<
Oh my, I'm not against doing ROIs, in fact, I think ROIs are under used by managers who don't know what it is or how to do it or who are incapable of evaluating the results and/or using the results for decision making.
Bob Gately, PE, MBA
From United States, Chelsea
45>have ever done an ROI on training. <
That is not what I do.
>1) I think it is quit Utopian to think that all employees will be successful after training.<
That is the point of my message.
It may be utopian for you but not for employers who know how to hire and train successful employees. Job failure after training should be a rare event.
>Even if it were so then the ROI will let us know how much difference has the training made in that success. E.g. if an employee was producing X in Y hrs and now has started producing Z, it is worthwhile to study how much of Z-X has happened because of training.<
Yes, I know the ins and outs of ROIs but managers hide behind ROIs because they do not trust trainers to provide training that works--far too many trainees fail to become successful employees after training. That said, training failures are almost always the fault of the hiring manager not the training department.
>2) All training programs being a 100% successful is Utopian again.<
What if it isn't?
> You do not seem to accept the fact that things can go wrong or deviate from planned output for very many factors not always under your control.<
When we stop training the wrong people training success soars.
>Also, ROI is not about whether the training is successful or not; that is a relative term and what you might term as successful may not be the same as my definition. ROI is about what difference the training has made in fiscal terms, even negative, and what changes, modifications, improvements we can make.<
Would an ROI be easier if all trainees were successful after training?
>Hope this helps in your understanding of ROI and remove some of the biases against it.<
Oh my, I'm not against doing ROIs, in fact, I think ROIs are under used by managers who don't know what it is or how to do it or who are incapable of evaluating the results and/or using the results for decision making.
Bob Gately, PE, MBA
From United States, Chelsea
Dear Bob,
What you are saying is ROI if used properly, can be quite effective.
But you do not see any point in doing ROI on training if the programs are running successfully by whatever measure decided by the organisation, is that right?
regards
MM
From India, Mumbai
What you are saying is ROI if used properly, can be quite effective.
But you do not see any point in doing ROI on training if the programs are running successfully by whatever measure decided by the organisation, is that right?
regards
MM
From India, Mumbai
Hello MM:
>What you are saying is ROI if used properly, can be quite effective.<
Yes, but only if the reader knows what to do with the information.
>But you do not see any point in doing ROI on training if the programs are running successfully by whatever measure decided by the organisation, is that right?<
Close, if the training department's work product, i.e., trained employees, become successful employees, there is less of a need to convince management using an ROI. Of course if we are asked to do an ROI we do them.
From United States, Chelsea
>What you are saying is ROI if used properly, can be quite effective.<
Yes, but only if the reader knows what to do with the information.
>But you do not see any point in doing ROI on training if the programs are running successfully by whatever measure decided by the organisation, is that right?<
Close, if the training department's work product, i.e., trained employees, become successful employees, there is less of a need to convince management using an ROI. Of course if we are asked to do an ROI we do them.
From United States, Chelsea
Hi Nidhi,
The ROI on training can never be measured in monetary terms. It is to be measured more in terms of employee productivity. Management in any professional company always understands this and will seldom ask for direct justification about the expenditure.
Yes they might look for feedback from employees in terms of the changes they have experienced in outlook towards work and overall environment.
As regards the feedback you take, you might present it in a simple excel format or you can collect and analyse it and then put it forward in a formal presentation before management. Being HR, you can provide the management with some ideas and suggestions drawn from the feedback. Ideally you should not draw any conclusions but leave that part to management.
Hope my ideas have helped you in some way.
Regards,
Gaurang S
From India, Mumbai
The ROI on training can never be measured in monetary terms. It is to be measured more in terms of employee productivity. Management in any professional company always understands this and will seldom ask for direct justification about the expenditure.
Yes they might look for feedback from employees in terms of the changes they have experienced in outlook towards work and overall environment.
As regards the feedback you take, you might present it in a simple excel format or you can collect and analyse it and then put it forward in a formal presentation before management. Being HR, you can provide the management with some ideas and suggestions drawn from the feedback. Ideally you should not draw any conclusions but leave that part to management.
Hope my ideas have helped you in some way.
Regards,
Gaurang S
From India, Mumbai
Hi Nidhi,
Thanks for the reply. I am working out the formula for your requirement. I will get back to you asap.
Regards
Sreedharan
You had these queries:-
1.What type of training you give them and for what purpose.
I am specifically discussing the soft skills tarinig here...being given in terms of leadership development etc
2. What is the time frame you require for the employee to be more productive.
Understanding that soft skills training can not do miracls over night..we are looking at a long period of develoment & consider the expenditure in trainings as an investemnt. Time frame may vary from 1-3 years.
3. Do you measure the training effectiveness? ( Taking a recap after certain period of time say for period of 3 months ).
We do that , but looking at the number of people undergoing training it does not appear to be a scalable approach, n then again how do we capture the effectiveness.
4. What is the percentage of the employees being shifted to other areas for which the training given is not useful.
We do not have such statistics....but majorly where the failure has been felt is in Team leaders handling their team & groups.
5. Does this training a motivator ( for their improvement ).
Did not get your question...plz explain.
I have tried to answer your queries to the best i could understand them. Anything else needed plz let me know. We are a software company with mojor polulac efrom IITs & top institutes.
Regards
Nidhi
Thanks for the reply. I am working out the formula for your requirement. I will get back to you asap.
Regards
Sreedharan
You had these queries:-
1.What type of training you give them and for what purpose.
I am specifically discussing the soft skills tarinig here...being given in terms of leadership development etc
2. What is the time frame you require for the employee to be more productive.
Understanding that soft skills training can not do miracls over night..we are looking at a long period of develoment & consider the expenditure in trainings as an investemnt. Time frame may vary from 1-3 years.
3. Do you measure the training effectiveness? ( Taking a recap after certain period of time say for period of 3 months ).
We do that , but looking at the number of people undergoing training it does not appear to be a scalable approach, n then again how do we capture the effectiveness.
4. What is the percentage of the employees being shifted to other areas for which the training given is not useful.
We do not have such statistics....but majorly where the failure has been felt is in Team leaders handling their team & groups.
5. Does this training a motivator ( for their improvement ).
Did not get your question...plz explain.
I have tried to answer your queries to the best i could understand them. Anything else needed plz let me know. We are a software company with mojor polulac efrom IITs & top institutes.
Regards
Nidhi
Hi monoswi and sreedharan ... I am preparing a dissertation of measuring ROI through training effectiveness so kindly reply to nidhi's query in this forum itself so that others like can also benifit from the same.. or can u mail me that file on my mail id too.. my email id is 
:)
From India, Lucknow
From India, Lucknow
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MAILER SOFT SKILLS.pdf
Soft Skills.ppt
Hand book on soft skills[1].doc