Hello Mohan,
Regarding your statement, "Moreover, I have not just worked like an employee there to get an experience certificate at the end of 3 years of struggle to build the company," please avoid mixing up issues. What you are currently seeking is not recognition based on whether you worked there as an employee or as a Founder.
This is a moment where you need to 'think through the head' rather than 'thinking through the heart.'
Regards,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
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1652Regarding your statement, "Moreover, I have not just worked like an employee there to get an experience certificate at the end of 3 years of struggle to build the company," please avoid mixing up issues. What you are currently seeking is not recognition based on whether you worked there as an employee or as a Founder.
This is a moment where you need to 'think through the head' rather than 'thinking through the heart.'
Regards,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
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Hello Mohan,
First thing is that you can use the Bank Statements for your Salary Proof and consequently (though this COULD be tough) as proof of your service at this Company.
You can take a stand that it's a startup and there are no proper records.
Yes, I can get the bank statement but entrepreneurship didn't yield the income that I had in Oracle. So, whatever was paid was more of reimbursing some expenses to sustain without asking money from parents than to quote it as a salary. So, won't it have a negative impact when I go to future employers? In Oracle, I had close to 7LPA as CTC. I would like to quote that.
BTW, do you have internal correspondence that COULD show you working here?
There are some documents I have with the letterheads of the company and my name being mentioned under different roles. There are certificates and appreciation letters that we handed out to our students in training programs that have my signature. Do you approve these as internal correspondence or anything else is required?
Coming to the skills you gathered here, I am sure you did, having seen first-hand such situations. All of them would stand you in good stead as you move forward from here. But what I meant by 'What's your technical skill profile?' is about your core skill(s). The rest you gathered here are additional skills for now at least. This would be important for you in your job hunt. You have to focus/project a Primary Skillset followed by other skills. You can't say I can do this, this & that; the perception you would be giving is 'lack of focus'. Hope you get the point.
My primary job in the entrepreneurship was TRAINING. But for IU clubs wing, I did complete end-to-end operations of market outreach, sales and marketing, closing of sales, taking up sessions, conducting competitions and conventions, client relationship management (keeping in consistent contact with students and parents for discussions and feedback). The same was the case for the i3 training program that I did for 6 months in Hyderabad. Along with this, my primary job was also to edit all the articles before they went for publishing for our e-magazine. Also, as the Lead speaker of the company, I was responsible for taking up speeches when invited from different organizations.
My technical skill profile in Oracle was Business Intelligence/Data Warehousing and none in entrepreneurship (Inspiration Unlimited). So, is there something that I am missing here?
When you begin your search for new jobs, I am not sure if you should give a detailed account in your interviews since that could lead to situations that may be out of your control. But that doesn't mean you need to bluff or lie; you shouldn't. Handle it tactfully. Companies don't usually take lightly a candidate who gives negative inputs about the current employer, even though that might be true.
So, I just have to say that things didn't work out well between us and I moved out.
From India, Bengaluru
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First thing is that you can use the Bank Statements for your Salary Proof and consequently (though this COULD be tough) as proof of your service at this Company.
You can take a stand that it's a startup and there are no proper records.
Yes, I can get the bank statement but entrepreneurship didn't yield the income that I had in Oracle. So, whatever was paid was more of reimbursing some expenses to sustain without asking money from parents than to quote it as a salary. So, won't it have a negative impact when I go to future employers? In Oracle, I had close to 7LPA as CTC. I would like to quote that.
BTW, do you have internal correspondence that COULD show you working here?
There are some documents I have with the letterheads of the company and my name being mentioned under different roles. There are certificates and appreciation letters that we handed out to our students in training programs that have my signature. Do you approve these as internal correspondence or anything else is required?
Coming to the skills you gathered here, I am sure you did, having seen first-hand such situations. All of them would stand you in good stead as you move forward from here. But what I meant by 'What's your technical skill profile?' is about your core skill(s). The rest you gathered here are additional skills for now at least. This would be important for you in your job hunt. You have to focus/project a Primary Skillset followed by other skills. You can't say I can do this, this & that; the perception you would be giving is 'lack of focus'. Hope you get the point.
My primary job in the entrepreneurship was TRAINING. But for IU clubs wing, I did complete end-to-end operations of market outreach, sales and marketing, closing of sales, taking up sessions, conducting competitions and conventions, client relationship management (keeping in consistent contact with students and parents for discussions and feedback). The same was the case for the i3 training program that I did for 6 months in Hyderabad. Along with this, my primary job was also to edit all the articles before they went for publishing for our e-magazine. Also, as the Lead speaker of the company, I was responsible for taking up speeches when invited from different organizations.
My technical skill profile in Oracle was Business Intelligence/Data Warehousing and none in entrepreneurship (Inspiration Unlimited). So, is there something that I am missing here?
When you begin your search for new jobs, I am not sure if you should give a detailed account in your interviews since that could lead to situations that may be out of your control. But that doesn't mean you need to bluff or lie; you shouldn't. Handle it tactfully. Companies don't usually take lightly a candidate who gives negative inputs about the current employer, even though that might be true.
So, I just have to say that things didn't work out well between us and I moved out.
From India, Bengaluru
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Yeah! Got it. Words just went beyond the context at that line
From India, Bengaluru
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From India, Bengaluru
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Hello Mohan,
First thing is that you can use the Bank Statements for your Salary Proof... and consequently [though this COULD be tough] as proof of your service at this Company. You can take a stand that it's a startup and there are no proper records. BTW, do you have internal correspondence that COULD show you working here? Coming to the skills you gathered here, I am sure you did... having seen first-hand such situations. All of them would stand you in good stead as you move forward from here. But what I meant by 'What's your technical skill profile?' is about your core skill(s). The rest you gathered here are additional skills... for now at least. This would be important for you in your job hunt... you have to focus/project a Primary Skillset followed by other skills. You can't say I can do this, this & that... the perception you would be giving is 'lack of focus'. Hope you get the point. When you begin your search for new jobs, I am not sure IF you should give a detailed account in your interviews... since that COULD lead to situations that MAY be out of your control. But that DOESN'T mean you need to bluff/lie... you SHOULDN'T. Handle it tactfully. Companies don't usually take lightly a candidate who gives negative inputs about the current employer... even though that might be true.
@ PS DHINGRA--- W.r.t. your statement "why the company is feeling shy of issuing you the experience letter?", please note that there are dime-a-dozen Companies who don't hesitate to take advantage of such situations in this Country. If you go through some of the past threads in this very Forum, we find Companies just refusing... on one pretext or the other... to give the Relieving Docs... despite the employee completing the NP. At the end of the day, even though the Company is an entity that ought NOT to have any human frailties but go as per paper trail, it's after all 'human beings' who have to issue such Docs... and that's when idiosyncrasies, egos, hangups, etc come into the picture leading to such situations. I have known a recent situation where one old candidate of ours... and someone with ~20 yrs exp... [now more of a friend] got a shock of his life when his technical inventions were patented by the R&D Head & the Company without this guy even knowing about it. He later got to know about it from a III party & that's when he quit after an ugly spat. Such Companies & people keep popping-up everywhere in this world & frankly, I don't think we can blame the Companies... after all the leopard can't & doesn't change its spots. The irony is that we get to notice the spots ONLY when such situations come to pass... even though, I am sure, indications & alerts would have come much earlier. At the end of the day, the individual needs to be more vigilant.
Regards, TS
Dear TS,
I wonder if your assumption-based reply on behalf of the author, without seeing the author's response to my query, was justified. The author claims that he worked for his friend's company, where he should not have faced any difficulty in getting an experience certificate.
From India, Delhi
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First thing is that you can use the Bank Statements for your Salary Proof... and consequently [though this COULD be tough] as proof of your service at this Company. You can take a stand that it's a startup and there are no proper records. BTW, do you have internal correspondence that COULD show you working here? Coming to the skills you gathered here, I am sure you did... having seen first-hand such situations. All of them would stand you in good stead as you move forward from here. But what I meant by 'What's your technical skill profile?' is about your core skill(s). The rest you gathered here are additional skills... for now at least. This would be important for you in your job hunt... you have to focus/project a Primary Skillset followed by other skills. You can't say I can do this, this & that... the perception you would be giving is 'lack of focus'. Hope you get the point. When you begin your search for new jobs, I am not sure IF you should give a detailed account in your interviews... since that COULD lead to situations that MAY be out of your control. But that DOESN'T mean you need to bluff/lie... you SHOULDN'T. Handle it tactfully. Companies don't usually take lightly a candidate who gives negative inputs about the current employer... even though that might be true.
@ PS DHINGRA--- W.r.t. your statement "why the company is feeling shy of issuing you the experience letter?", please note that there are dime-a-dozen Companies who don't hesitate to take advantage of such situations in this Country. If you go through some of the past threads in this very Forum, we find Companies just refusing... on one pretext or the other... to give the Relieving Docs... despite the employee completing the NP. At the end of the day, even though the Company is an entity that ought NOT to have any human frailties but go as per paper trail, it's after all 'human beings' who have to issue such Docs... and that's when idiosyncrasies, egos, hangups, etc come into the picture leading to such situations. I have known a recent situation where one old candidate of ours... and someone with ~20 yrs exp... [now more of a friend] got a shock of his life when his technical inventions were patented by the R&D Head & the Company without this guy even knowing about it. He later got to know about it from a III party & that's when he quit after an ugly spat. Such Companies & people keep popping-up everywhere in this world & frankly, I don't think we can blame the Companies... after all the leopard can't & doesn't change its spots. The irony is that we get to notice the spots ONLY when such situations come to pass... even though, I am sure, indications & alerts would have come much earlier. At the end of the day, the individual needs to be more vigilant.
Regards, TS
Dear TS,
I wonder if your assumption-based reply on behalf of the author, without seeing the author's response to my query, was justified. The author claims that he worked for his friend's company, where he should not have faced any difficulty in getting an experience certificate.
From India, Delhi
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Mr. Mohan,
Your reply and assumption on behalf of the management of your friend are quite surprising! Any experience letter is not CV-based; rather, it depends upon the performance of the employee and the period of work. However, I am now fully convinced that your query was of a hypothetical and academic nature, not for the purpose of seeking a solution to any problem you would have faced.
From India, Delhi
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Your reply and assumption on behalf of the management of your friend are quite surprising! Any experience letter is not CV-based; rather, it depends upon the performance of the employee and the period of work. However, I am now fully convinced that your query was of a hypothetical and academic nature, not for the purpose of seeking a solution to any problem you would have faced.
From India, Delhi
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Hello PS Dhingra,
Vis-a-vis your remark "The author claims that he worked for his friend's company, where he should not have faced any difficulty in getting an experience certificate," you are right when the assumption is that the friendship still exists.
You seem to be fortunate in your career and life not to have seen friendships break off with a rupture or spat. Hence, I can understand your viewpoint and conclusion on this issue.
Unfortunately, Mohan's experience of this particular friendship, and I can say that such relationships do exist on this planet, has been neither fair nor good. Going by the little details about the relationship that he mentioned and my own observations along my life path, I can venture to say that Mohan has been 'solidly used' by them.
That Mohan has allowed it to happen for 3 years is his learning process; he always had a choice, even initially, to refuse.
So expecting any document when the relationship has soured, as he has explained in the first posting, isn't realistic. It would just be a bonus if the document comes.
In a way, you have a point when you say, "Any experience letter is not CV-based, rather depends upon the performance of the employee and the period of work."
But what if someone says, "I just don't want to give you any doc...do what you want," or something with a similar meaning?
If you think such things don't happen, suggest please correct yourself and thank your stars that you haven't had the misfortune to have come across such situations in life—and I am not being sarcastic here—just plain realistic, since I know such situations can happen and have happened to many people, one of which I already mentioned earlier in this thread.
However, I still wouldn't generalize this scenario. Just because it happened to a few people doesn't mean we need to look at every similar situation through the same prism. It's for this very reason that I kept asking queries to doubly ensure all of us are addressing a real situation rather than, as you rightly pointed out, 'hypothetical and academic' situations. If no clarifications were forthcoming, I would have just switched off myself from participating in this thread.
How other members respond/react would be their prerogative and choice, I guess.
Regards,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
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Vis-a-vis your remark "The author claims that he worked for his friend's company, where he should not have faced any difficulty in getting an experience certificate," you are right when the assumption is that the friendship still exists.
You seem to be fortunate in your career and life not to have seen friendships break off with a rupture or spat. Hence, I can understand your viewpoint and conclusion on this issue.
Unfortunately, Mohan's experience of this particular friendship, and I can say that such relationships do exist on this planet, has been neither fair nor good. Going by the little details about the relationship that he mentioned and my own observations along my life path, I can venture to say that Mohan has been 'solidly used' by them.
That Mohan has allowed it to happen for 3 years is his learning process; he always had a choice, even initially, to refuse.
So expecting any document when the relationship has soured, as he has explained in the first posting, isn't realistic. It would just be a bonus if the document comes.
In a way, you have a point when you say, "Any experience letter is not CV-based, rather depends upon the performance of the employee and the period of work."
But what if someone says, "I just don't want to give you any doc...do what you want," or something with a similar meaning?
If you think such things don't happen, suggest please correct yourself and thank your stars that you haven't had the misfortune to have come across such situations in life—and I am not being sarcastic here—just plain realistic, since I know such situations can happen and have happened to many people, one of which I already mentioned earlier in this thread.
However, I still wouldn't generalize this scenario. Just because it happened to a few people doesn't mean we need to look at every similar situation through the same prism. It's for this very reason that I kept asking queries to doubly ensure all of us are addressing a real situation rather than, as you rightly pointed out, 'hypothetical and academic' situations. If no clarifications were forthcoming, I would have just switched off myself from participating in this thread.
How other members respond/react would be their prerogative and choice, I guess.
Regards,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
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Hello PS Dhingra,
Vis-a-vis your remark "The author claims that he worked for his friend's company, where he should not have faced any difficulty in getting an experience certificate," you are right when the assumption is that the friendship still exists.
You seem to be fortunate in your career/life not to have witnessed friendships breaking off with a rupture or spat. Hence, I can understand your viewpoint and conclusion on this issue.
Unfortunately, Mohan's experience of this particular friendship, and I can say that such relationships do exist on this planet, has been neither fair nor good. Going by the little details about the relationship that he mentioned and my own observations along my life path, I can venture to say that Mohan has been 'solidly used' by them.
That Mohan has allowed it to happen for 3 years is his learning process; he always had a choice even initially to refuse.
So, expecting any document when the relationship has soured, which he has explained in the First Posting, isn't realistic. It would just be a bonus if the document comes.
In a way, you have a point when you say, "Any experience letter is not CV-based but rather depends upon the performance of the employee and the period of work."
But what if someone says, "I just don't want to give you any document...do what you want," or something with a similar meaning?
If you think such things don't happen, suggest please correct yourself and thank your stars that you haven't had the misfortune to have come across such situations in life—and I am not being sarcastic here—just plain realistic, as I know such situations can happen and have happened to many people, one of which I already mentioned earlier in this thread.
However, I still wouldn't generalize this scenario [just because it happened to a few people doesn't mean we need to look at every similar situation through the same prism]—it's for this very reason that I kept asking queries to doubly ensure all of us are addressing a real situation rather than, as you rightly pointed out, 'hypothetical and academic' situations. If no clarifications were forthcoming, I would have just switched off myself from participating in this thread.
How other members respond/react would be their prerogative/choice, I guess.
Rgds,
TS
Thank you so much @Tajsateeth! I don't know if I could explain in such detail as you've done here. Thank you so much for your time and patience. However, one statement of yours has fully summarized my issue here - "So expecting any document when the relationship has soured, which he has explained in the First Posting, isn't realistic. It would just be a bonus if the document comes."
I am sorry if any of my answers felt like an unnecessary use of Mr. Dhingra's time. I regret the inconvenience caused unintentionally.
Let me try to make this discussion more objective-oriented than a series of explanations.
Q1. After the successful completion of the training program I was authorized to conduct in Hyderabad and the bitter conversation with the Director there, there has been no correspondence from the company for any further work. It all stopped at the end of July. No expenses were reimbursed, and no salary was issued from June onwards. When I repeatedly asked for reimbursement, I was only told that it would be done but it never happened. So, I stopped the literal begging for asking my own money back. What should be my next step?
Q2. As per formal records, there is no document to show that Mohan BN was hired or joined the Founding team of the company. So, does it make sense to ask for an experience letter when there is no document to support the inception of my role in the company at any point in the past?
Q3. The Director didn't bother to connect with me to ask about my job/career after July, and when one of my relatives messaged about such unfair treatment, he just messaged me to meet him in the first week of November, which was 2 weeks away. Should I ask for an experience letter if that meeting happens?
Q4. If I don't get any kind of formal proof that I have been working in the field for the last 3 years of struggle, what precautions should I take or what things should I be ready with while applying for new jobs henceforth?
I hope I have made the discussion more point-based and clearer for solution providers.
From India, Bengaluru
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Vis-a-vis your remark "The author claims that he worked for his friend's company, where he should not have faced any difficulty in getting an experience certificate," you are right when the assumption is that the friendship still exists.
You seem to be fortunate in your career/life not to have witnessed friendships breaking off with a rupture or spat. Hence, I can understand your viewpoint and conclusion on this issue.
Unfortunately, Mohan's experience of this particular friendship, and I can say that such relationships do exist on this planet, has been neither fair nor good. Going by the little details about the relationship that he mentioned and my own observations along my life path, I can venture to say that Mohan has been 'solidly used' by them.
That Mohan has allowed it to happen for 3 years is his learning process; he always had a choice even initially to refuse.
So, expecting any document when the relationship has soured, which he has explained in the First Posting, isn't realistic. It would just be a bonus if the document comes.
In a way, you have a point when you say, "Any experience letter is not CV-based but rather depends upon the performance of the employee and the period of work."
But what if someone says, "I just don't want to give you any document...do what you want," or something with a similar meaning?
If you think such things don't happen, suggest please correct yourself and thank your stars that you haven't had the misfortune to have come across such situations in life—and I am not being sarcastic here—just plain realistic, as I know such situations can happen and have happened to many people, one of which I already mentioned earlier in this thread.
However, I still wouldn't generalize this scenario [just because it happened to a few people doesn't mean we need to look at every similar situation through the same prism]—it's for this very reason that I kept asking queries to doubly ensure all of us are addressing a real situation rather than, as you rightly pointed out, 'hypothetical and academic' situations. If no clarifications were forthcoming, I would have just switched off myself from participating in this thread.
How other members respond/react would be their prerogative/choice, I guess.
Rgds,
TS
Thank you so much @Tajsateeth! I don't know if I could explain in such detail as you've done here. Thank you so much for your time and patience. However, one statement of yours has fully summarized my issue here - "So expecting any document when the relationship has soured, which he has explained in the First Posting, isn't realistic. It would just be a bonus if the document comes."
I am sorry if any of my answers felt like an unnecessary use of Mr. Dhingra's time. I regret the inconvenience caused unintentionally.
Let me try to make this discussion more objective-oriented than a series of explanations.
Q1. After the successful completion of the training program I was authorized to conduct in Hyderabad and the bitter conversation with the Director there, there has been no correspondence from the company for any further work. It all stopped at the end of July. No expenses were reimbursed, and no salary was issued from June onwards. When I repeatedly asked for reimbursement, I was only told that it would be done but it never happened. So, I stopped the literal begging for asking my own money back. What should be my next step?
Q2. As per formal records, there is no document to show that Mohan BN was hired or joined the Founding team of the company. So, does it make sense to ask for an experience letter when there is no document to support the inception of my role in the company at any point in the past?
Q3. The Director didn't bother to connect with me to ask about my job/career after July, and when one of my relatives messaged about such unfair treatment, he just messaged me to meet him in the first week of November, which was 2 weeks away. Should I ask for an experience letter if that meeting happens?
Q4. If I don't get any kind of formal proof that I have been working in the field for the last 3 years of struggle, what precautions should I take or what things should I be ready with while applying for new jobs henceforth?
I hope I have made the discussion more point-based and clearer for solution providers.
From India, Bengaluru
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Hello Mohan,
To cut a long story short, let me reiterate what I suggested to another member today for his problem through PMs—up to you to call it coincidence or providence:
"I always suggest this in CiteHR: 'Aim and work towards the Best-case-Scenario AND prepare mentally for the Worst-case-Scenario. That way, there won't be many surprises in life. Most often, problems come not due to the problems themselves, but due to the inability of the individual accepting the factual situation and coping with it.'
This, I think, right away applies to you too.
And to answer your Q3—by all means, go and meet the Director in the first week of Nov AND ask him for the Docs. You don't need to beg nor ask it as a favor. Asking him for the Docs as the fair way to close the issue formally could be a better way. However, I do think he will come up with his side of the story on why the relationship soured—which I do believe would have at least some validity—but don't get into that trap of digging the past.
All the Best.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
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To cut a long story short, let me reiterate what I suggested to another member today for his problem through PMs—up to you to call it coincidence or providence:
"I always suggest this in CiteHR: 'Aim and work towards the Best-case-Scenario AND prepare mentally for the Worst-case-Scenario. That way, there won't be many surprises in life. Most often, problems come not due to the problems themselves, but due to the inability of the individual accepting the factual situation and coping with it.'
This, I think, right away applies to you too.
And to answer your Q3—by all means, go and meet the Director in the first week of Nov AND ask him for the Docs. You don't need to beg nor ask it as a favor. Asking him for the Docs as the fair way to close the issue formally could be a better way. However, I do think he will come up with his side of the story on why the relationship soured—which I do believe would have at least some validity—but don't get into that trap of digging the past.
All the Best.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
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Dear TS,
Your present post is also filled with more presumptions rather than any fact stated by the querist. From your own presumptions, like a soured relationship, the querist seems to be fabricating stories to unduly stretch his thread and has posted some silly questions, as if he is a child who wants spoon-feeding or is working merely on directions from other members of this community, rather than using his own brain. For example, he questioned, "Should I ask for an experience letter if that meeting happens," while it is a matter of common sense that when the director has called him to discuss his own problem, why should he not discuss the real problem? Naturally, the director would not have invited him to attend the marriage ceremony of his son or his own birthday.
Also, what kind of silly thinking is this about "no proof," as if he worked merely on oral directions or did all his jobs verbally without leaving any clues on record? What did he do and with what results for all three years of his work in the company while drawing a salary for merely verbal activities only?
Frankly speaking, I am of the view that his postings merely smack of a fabricated and hypothetical problem, with an exaggeration of facts, for reasons best known to him only.
Handle Line Breaks:
Ensure there is a single line break between paragraphs.
Preserve the Meaning: While correcting the grammar and spelling, make sure the original meaning and tone of the message remain unchanged.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Delhi
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Your present post is also filled with more presumptions rather than any fact stated by the querist. From your own presumptions, like a soured relationship, the querist seems to be fabricating stories to unduly stretch his thread and has posted some silly questions, as if he is a child who wants spoon-feeding or is working merely on directions from other members of this community, rather than using his own brain. For example, he questioned, "Should I ask for an experience letter if that meeting happens," while it is a matter of common sense that when the director has called him to discuss his own problem, why should he not discuss the real problem? Naturally, the director would not have invited him to attend the marriage ceremony of his son or his own birthday.
Also, what kind of silly thinking is this about "no proof," as if he worked merely on oral directions or did all his jobs verbally without leaving any clues on record? What did he do and with what results for all three years of his work in the company while drawing a salary for merely verbal activities only?
Frankly speaking, I am of the view that his postings merely smack of a fabricated and hypothetical problem, with an exaggeration of facts, for reasons best known to him only.
Handle Line Breaks:
Ensure there is a single line break between paragraphs.
Preserve the Meaning: While correcting the grammar and spelling, make sure the original meaning and tone of the message remain unchanged.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Delhi
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Just thought this could be useful to you and quite relevant for you, Mohan.
The Viral Fever's cofounders battle it out in court against each other - The Economic Times
The story is much the same in quite a few startups.
Regards,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
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The Viral Fever's cofounders battle it out in court against each other - The Economic Times
The story is much the same in quite a few startups.
Regards,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
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