Kashyap has really opened up a very good subject of non-payment of ESI and PF to authorities. This is a straightforward case of robbery. When caught, a few bucks can be thrown as a penalty, and depositing the utilized money for many months/years into the government treasury.
I would like to add a question here: If any company deducts one or two days' wages from an employee's salary in the case of a natural calamity like floods or earthquakes, and does not hand over these monies to the government treasury, is there any penalty?
From India, Mumbai
Acknowledge(0)
Amend(0)
73I would like to add a question here: If any company deducts one or two days' wages from an employee's salary in the case of a natural calamity like floods or earthquakes, and does not hand over these monies to the government treasury, is there any penalty?
From India, Mumbai
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
With reference to the communication between my friends Ritesh and Vibha, I would like to share that both are correct in their logic. We all have experience on this topic; we know what happens when employees start voicing. Definitely, it affects HR first. In most cases, we have seen HR suffer, whether they are responsible for the problem or not. Every issue related to manpower comes near HR first. As a result, both the employee and employer start to accuse HR. I agree...
I mean to state that whoever it may be, whether the HR or any senior employee of the organization or the occupier himself, should be penalized, as they have played with the hope and trust of employees.
Thank you...
From India
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
I mean to state that whoever it may be, whether the HR or any senior employee of the organization or the occupier himself, should be penalized, as they have played with the hope and trust of employees.
Thank you...
From India
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Mr. Parveen Ji,
I think you have not read the thread properly. Here, it is not a question of any rights, but we are talking about the partiality between employees and employers.
I want to give an example: When a normal man is caught snatching money or a bag or purse, we do not ask him why he did that. Instead, we immediately give him a big slap, and then we hand him over to the police, who may further harass him, even if it is just a small amount like Rs 100.
On the other side, when employers embezzle money from PF and ESI funds in lakhs from common people, the common man can only go to the Labor Court, where they do not have much time to pursue legal action.
I would also like to share one thing: there are many labor law experts who could be consulting both the employee, who is a victim, and the employer, who is seeking profits by any means.
I simply want to emphasize that our lawmakers, law enforcers, and legal system must have only one aim: to fight in the right direction and in an honest way, similar to how a doctor's aim is to save their patient.
Regards,
Kashyap
From India, Chandigarh
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
I think you have not read the thread properly. Here, it is not a question of any rights, but we are talking about the partiality between employees and employers.
I want to give an example: When a normal man is caught snatching money or a bag or purse, we do not ask him why he did that. Instead, we immediately give him a big slap, and then we hand him over to the police, who may further harass him, even if it is just a small amount like Rs 100.
On the other side, when employers embezzle money from PF and ESI funds in lakhs from common people, the common man can only go to the Labor Court, where they do not have much time to pursue legal action.
I would also like to share one thing: there are many labor law experts who could be consulting both the employee, who is a victim, and the employer, who is seeking profits by any means.
I simply want to emphasize that our lawmakers, law enforcers, and legal system must have only one aim: to fight in the right direction and in an honest way, similar to how a doctor's aim is to save their patient.
Regards,
Kashyap
From India, Chandigarh
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Mr Kashyap,
You can ask your friend to contact the local EPFO (Employee Provident Fund Org)'s local office with his salary slips which shows deduction towards provident fund and file a complaint against his employer. The department will take care of the rest. It is illegal for any company to be engaged in such an act as mentioned by you. In the meantime you should also ask your friend to look for another job as well. If he is not satisfied with his current job, then the market is always open with vacancies coming up for different companies in different sectors.
With reference to the last part of your question, ‘Many Senior Managers Works for Human Resource but why most of the all manager fight for only company not for employee rights and benefits.’
The management reacts to any situation depending on case-to-case scenario. We can’t deny the fact that how much senior the manager is, he/she is also an employee of the company, more answerable to management than employees and will manage the affairs in company’s interest. Depending upon the situation, managers may change their course of action as per employee’s demands, requests and suitability but they have to think from different point of views (employer’s and employee’s) and consider its overall impact on the system before implementing any decision. A senior HR person in any company acts as a link between senior management and operational teams. His success depends how he manages to improve employee satisfaction within his company without giving any impact to his employer. However, if there is incorrect policy or practice in the company, it becomes his responsibility to rectify the things and justify his actions with strong reasons.
At the end of day its a ‘REASON’ that can justify the actions taken by management or an employee to survive and progress professionally.
From India, Gurgaon
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
You can ask your friend to contact the local EPFO (Employee Provident Fund Org)'s local office with his salary slips which shows deduction towards provident fund and file a complaint against his employer. The department will take care of the rest. It is illegal for any company to be engaged in such an act as mentioned by you. In the meantime you should also ask your friend to look for another job as well. If he is not satisfied with his current job, then the market is always open with vacancies coming up for different companies in different sectors.
With reference to the last part of your question, ‘Many Senior Managers Works for Human Resource but why most of the all manager fight for only company not for employee rights and benefits.’
The management reacts to any situation depending on case-to-case scenario. We can’t deny the fact that how much senior the manager is, he/she is also an employee of the company, more answerable to management than employees and will manage the affairs in company’s interest. Depending upon the situation, managers may change their course of action as per employee’s demands, requests and suitability but they have to think from different point of views (employer’s and employee’s) and consider its overall impact on the system before implementing any decision. A senior HR person in any company acts as a link between senior management and operational teams. His success depends how he manages to improve employee satisfaction within his company without giving any impact to his employer. However, if there is incorrect policy or practice in the company, it becomes his responsibility to rectify the things and justify his actions with strong reasons.
At the end of day its a ‘REASON’ that can justify the actions taken by management or an employee to survive and progress professionally.
From India, Gurgaon
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Nice quote.
So why don't you or your friend sacrifice their career and earnings for the betterment of the community? It's easy to say. Do and see how it works. Who today is going to risk losing his job and livelihood for you?
Have you or your friends tried complaining to the authorities? The PF and ESIC departments take immediate action on complaints of short payment or non-payment. In view of RTI, today they are also willing to sweep complaints below the carpet.
Most companies are very careful about compliance. They ensure that the contractors pay PF and ESIC on time. So, I find it difficult to believe that MNCs in general are "stealing your money."
You are crying about your friend who gets only 10,000 per month. What is his work? What's his skill set? What's his educational qualification? For example, if he is a material handler whose job is to move material trays from one assembly line to another, do you think he will get more than 10k per month? If he has skills that are in demand, why has he not changed his job? Why not try in another city? I met a couple of welders working in a large factory through a contractor. Guess what? They are getting 8 times the minimum wages. Know why? Because they have skills that they learned/developed that make them valuable.
The last gripe you seem to have is against MNCs working through contractors. Well, this is a system that is going to stay. You have no choice there nor I. Companies will continue to move non-critical/non-core work to contractors. That is a part of their efficiency cycle.
From India, Mumbai
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
So why don't you or your friend sacrifice their career and earnings for the betterment of the community? It's easy to say. Do and see how it works. Who today is going to risk losing his job and livelihood for you?
Have you or your friends tried complaining to the authorities? The PF and ESIC departments take immediate action on complaints of short payment or non-payment. In view of RTI, today they are also willing to sweep complaints below the carpet.
Most companies are very careful about compliance. They ensure that the contractors pay PF and ESIC on time. So, I find it difficult to believe that MNCs in general are "stealing your money."
You are crying about your friend who gets only 10,000 per month. What is his work? What's his skill set? What's his educational qualification? For example, if he is a material handler whose job is to move material trays from one assembly line to another, do you think he will get more than 10k per month? If he has skills that are in demand, why has he not changed his job? Why not try in another city? I met a couple of welders working in a large factory through a contractor. Guess what? They are getting 8 times the minimum wages. Know why? Because they have skills that they learned/developed that make them valuable.
The last gripe you seem to have is against MNCs working through contractors. Well, this is a system that is going to stay. You have no choice there nor I. Companies will continue to move non-critical/non-core work to contractors. That is a part of their efficiency cycle.
From India, Mumbai
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Mr. Banerjee ji,
It seems that you agree with the people who do such wrong things and believe in such activities. This can only be understood by those who face such problems.
For your information, two cases of non-submission of PF of my close ones are already in progress in the labor court. This will proceed as well.
I want to inform you that not everyone has the same opportunities as in Delhi, Mumbai, or Bangalore, where you can leave a job today and find another tomorrow. It is also not feasible for everyone's family circumstances to be identical. There are many family issues where circumstances do not allow a person to move to another city for better opportunities.
Regards,
Kashyap
From India, Chandigarh
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
It seems that you agree with the people who do such wrong things and believe in such activities. This can only be understood by those who face such problems.
For your information, two cases of non-submission of PF of my close ones are already in progress in the labor court. This will proceed as well.
I want to inform you that not everyone has the same opportunities as in Delhi, Mumbai, or Bangalore, where you can leave a job today and find another tomorrow. It is also not feasible for everyone's family circumstances to be identical. There are many family issues where circumstances do not allow a person to move to another city for better opportunities.
Regards,
Kashyap
From India, Chandigarh
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Well, there are similar cases of PF non-submission going on against Kingfisher which will take a long time too. However, I would like to know more about the cases your close ones are fighting. If the company is defunct or not in a position to pay, it's a different matter. In other cases, cases of nonpayment of PF get resolved quickly as the PF department gets orders to attach property, freeze bank accounts, etc. The cases get prolonged if the cases are not clear-cut and there is ambiguity or dispute on facts of the case. I just got an update of a case where the Supreme Court ordered reinstatement of a worker dismissed 34 years back. So any case that gets stuck in our courts will drag on almost forever. You still have not told me the qualification of the person or what work he is doing.
The company will pay market rates. That rate is dependent on the place where the factory is. The reason why companies set up factories in backward areas is to get cheaper manpower. So if the salary generally offered in an area is low, the company will not pay higher, nor will the HR department recommend it. Millions of our workers work at minimum wage levels and manage their lives accordingly. So if your friend/relative cannot move from this location where the salary is low, then he will have to live and manage within that. Complaining, crying, or getting angry with the HR department and the company solves nothing. Even the largest companies set up plants in such areas to get lower costs. They will not increase a person's salary unless general wages increase.
From India, Mumbai
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
The company will pay market rates. That rate is dependent on the place where the factory is. The reason why companies set up factories in backward areas is to get cheaper manpower. So if the salary generally offered in an area is low, the company will not pay higher, nor will the HR department recommend it. Millions of our workers work at minimum wage levels and manage their lives accordingly. So if your friend/relative cannot move from this location where the salary is low, then he will have to live and manage within that. Complaining, crying, or getting angry with the HR department and the company solves nothing. Even the largest companies set up plants in such areas to get lower costs. They will not increase a person's salary unless general wages increase.
From India, Mumbai
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Dear Vibha,
Greetings!!!
There is already a forum. You just have to go to the labour officer of your area, you can even file a complaint anonymously. Labour officers are almost waiting for such complaints, once the complaint is made, you can just watch the proceeding. They are empowered with freezing company's accounts, attaching properties and even attaching personal accounts of owners.
From India, Delhi
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Greetings!!!
There is already a forum. You just have to go to the labour officer of your area, you can even file a complaint anonymously. Labour officers are almost waiting for such complaints, once the complaint is made, you can just watch the proceeding. They are empowered with freezing company's accounts, attaching properties and even attaching personal accounts of owners.
From India, Delhi
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Dear Sir / Madam, Thank you very much for the Information. I would be eager to approach the Forum in case of any obstacle arises at work place. Regards, Vibha
From India, Pune
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
From India, Pune
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
My question remains unanswered: If any company deducts one day or two days' wages from an employee's salary in the case of a natural calamity like floods or earthquakes and does not hand over these monies to the government treasury, is there any penalty or any authority whom one can approach?
From India, Mumbai
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
From India, Mumbai
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)Looking for something specific? - Join & Be Part Of Our Community and get connected with the right people who can help. Our AI-powered platform provides real-time fact-checking, peer-reviewed insights, and a vast historical knowledge base to support your search.