Dear Mr. Saikumar,
Practical problems force us to interpret the law differently. Layoff, in its definition, does not contemplate stopping at the gate for not wearing a uniform if he is a workman under the ID Act. At most, Standing Orders can specify the same.
I am just presenting an argument to the extreme. If an employee comes in shorts, will you allow him, or will you stop him at the gate?
If an employee is issued a uniform as per any agreement, then it implies that wearing the uniform is a precondition to enter the work premises. If he or she does not fulfill the condition, he or she need not be permitted to work.
If the management is very strict right from day one, everyone will come in uniform or in the dress code. If one is lenient and starts sending advisory notes, etc., employees will take advantage.
Can a waiter in a restaurant be without a uniform or dress code? Is a bus conductor always seen in uniform?
I would like to conclude my post on this subject with an observation that stopping at the gate due to not wearing a uniform will not amount to a layoff.
Be firm and have conviction.
From India, Chennai
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412Practical problems force us to interpret the law differently. Layoff, in its definition, does not contemplate stopping at the gate for not wearing a uniform if he is a workman under the ID Act. At most, Standing Orders can specify the same.
I am just presenting an argument to the extreme. If an employee comes in shorts, will you allow him, or will you stop him at the gate?
If an employee is issued a uniform as per any agreement, then it implies that wearing the uniform is a precondition to enter the work premises. If he or she does not fulfill the condition, he or she need not be permitted to work.
If the management is very strict right from day one, everyone will come in uniform or in the dress code. If one is lenient and starts sending advisory notes, etc., employees will take advantage.
Can a waiter in a restaurant be without a uniform or dress code? Is a bus conductor always seen in uniform?
I would like to conclude my post on this subject with an observation that stopping at the gate due to not wearing a uniform will not amount to a layoff.
Be firm and have conviction.
From India, Chennai
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Dear Sivasankaran,
I can't help but agree with you that the management should be strict regarding wearing uniforms. Yes, as you said, it can be made a part of an agreement or a standing order to implement it with more force. A debate like this reveals other angles to an issue.
Thanks,
B. Saikumar
Mumbai
From India, Mumbai
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I can't help but agree with you that the management should be strict regarding wearing uniforms. Yes, as you said, it can be made a part of an agreement or a standing order to implement it with more force. A debate like this reveals other angles to an issue.
Thanks,
B. Saikumar
Mumbai
From India, Mumbai
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Dear Saikumar,
If something is being done to maintain discipline among the workforce, where is the harm? If we are lenient in one area, this will foster in another area. Some sales managers have replied to their BM that how come wearing a tie to the office will affect my sales. This type of mentality, if not treated at the grassroots, will come up in another area. Next, they will ask why do I need to attend monthly meetings. I am a performer - inform me of my target over the phone. As performance breeds arrogance in some people, it's better this be nipped in the bud. I don't think a tribunal will uphold the case of a workman who complains against management rules of wearing a uniform, tie, helmet (if required). Management can even force employees to wear formals on Saturday too if they argue that clients do visit them on Saturday as well, so we need to look our best. No employee can fight this even legally. As for factory workers, they need to be disciplined with a reminder that they need to develop a relationship with management because bearing a grudge will do no good for both. So, a give-and-take policy must be there.
From India, Bangalore
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If something is being done to maintain discipline among the workforce, where is the harm? If we are lenient in one area, this will foster in another area. Some sales managers have replied to their BM that how come wearing a tie to the office will affect my sales. This type of mentality, if not treated at the grassroots, will come up in another area. Next, they will ask why do I need to attend monthly meetings. I am a performer - inform me of my target over the phone. As performance breeds arrogance in some people, it's better this be nipped in the bud. I don't think a tribunal will uphold the case of a workman who complains against management rules of wearing a uniform, tie, helmet (if required). Management can even force employees to wear formals on Saturday too if they argue that clients do visit them on Saturday as well, so we need to look our best. No employee can fight this even legally. As for factory workers, they need to be disciplined with a reminder that they need to develop a relationship with management because bearing a grudge will do no good for both. So, a give-and-take policy must be there.
From India, Bangalore
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After having worked at 3 places, out of which 1 is a big industry and a dream company for many, I have learned this - let your people wear what they are comfortable in.
In my organization, we have this policy - On normal days, people can be in formal or business casual attire (which should not be inappropriate like low waist jeans, deep-necked clothing, or too revealing clothing). However, when employees are going out on business meetings or when visitors are expected, we all dress formally.
We also allow ladies to choose between Indian or Western formal attire based on their comfort zone.
I have observed many companies with strict Western formal dress codes even for women, where I noticed many women not performing to their fullest potential due to self-consciousness about their appearance and discomfort in their attire.
I would like to add that if your organization follows a strict Western formal dress code, clearly state this in your HR policy and employee handbook. Explicitly communicate this to female candidates during interviews so that they can make informed decisions. While we may not change the company's policies for a few individuals, we can ensure their satisfaction and comfort.
Hope this information was helpful. :)
From India, Mumbai
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In my organization, we have this policy - On normal days, people can be in formal or business casual attire (which should not be inappropriate like low waist jeans, deep-necked clothing, or too revealing clothing). However, when employees are going out on business meetings or when visitors are expected, we all dress formally.
We also allow ladies to choose between Indian or Western formal attire based on their comfort zone.
I have observed many companies with strict Western formal dress codes even for women, where I noticed many women not performing to their fullest potential due to self-consciousness about their appearance and discomfort in their attire.
I would like to add that if your organization follows a strict Western formal dress code, clearly state this in your HR policy and employee handbook. Explicitly communicate this to female candidates during interviews so that they can make informed decisions. While we may not change the company's policies for a few individuals, we can ensure their satisfaction and comfort.
Hope this information was helpful. :)
From India, Mumbai
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Dear Ankita,
What we are discussing is not whether they are comfortable in formals or not. Nobody in their right mind will say they feel comfortable in formals, but whether it should be made mandatory or not. Your so-called dream company may be catering to US clients who may be comfortable seeing their projects done by cool guys, but in the Indian client's mindset, this looks like a frivolous attitude. Moreover, I don't think this dream company's sales team would be meeting their clients in chappals and polo t-shirts. So, what they must be doing is allowing back-office staff to wear casuals. What I suggest is one's fashion sense should be left for display at family functions and not at work. Moreover, employees start taking it as a liberal attitude, and I have seen people coming to the office in chappals on Saturdays and torn jeans. Even there is a dress code for Saturdays, even if it is casual.
It doesn't mean a strict Western style for ladies. Salwars count as formal too if not too flashy. Moreover, girls who are conscious of their appearance will be the same in any dress; it is a mentality; you can't change that. I don't think because some companies have a stricter dress code, someone will not consider it as a career option. If somebody is doing that, then he/she is always free to leave because the company won't appreciate someone looking for the benefits of a freelancer while being in a job. I don't think I will call it a stricter HR policy. This is the norm that is followed in India. If some companies are liberal, it's their choice.
From India, Bangalore
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What we are discussing is not whether they are comfortable in formals or not. Nobody in their right mind will say they feel comfortable in formals, but whether it should be made mandatory or not. Your so-called dream company may be catering to US clients who may be comfortable seeing their projects done by cool guys, but in the Indian client's mindset, this looks like a frivolous attitude. Moreover, I don't think this dream company's sales team would be meeting their clients in chappals and polo t-shirts. So, what they must be doing is allowing back-office staff to wear casuals. What I suggest is one's fashion sense should be left for display at family functions and not at work. Moreover, employees start taking it as a liberal attitude, and I have seen people coming to the office in chappals on Saturdays and torn jeans. Even there is a dress code for Saturdays, even if it is casual.
It doesn't mean a strict Western style for ladies. Salwars count as formal too if not too flashy. Moreover, girls who are conscious of their appearance will be the same in any dress; it is a mentality; you can't change that. I don't think because some companies have a stricter dress code, someone will not consider it as a career option. If somebody is doing that, then he/she is always free to leave because the company won't appreciate someone looking for the benefits of a freelancer while being in a job. I don't think I will call it a stricter HR policy. This is the norm that is followed in India. If some companies are liberal, it's their choice.
From India, Bangalore
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Following a company's policy makes some people dissatisfied. So what? Let them be. You are not paid to cater to their whims and fancies. Allow them work from home policy if possible but don't let that cause dissatisfaction among employees who are sincerely following company rules.
Who said wearing formals doesn't help us to focus better? It is your figment of imagination, I suppose.
FYI we are talking in general, not about IT/Media/fashion where it is normal to dress in business casuals.
Except MNCs, I don't think any Indian company doesn't allow Salwar/Sari except for the sales team in some cases. If you know any Indian company, name it?
As to your wearing western formals, as I have already said earlier, we are not discussing what 1-2 companies are doing, we are discussing what the rest of the 999 companies are doing. Many salespersons are made to wear ties in hot humid climates. They do feel adjusted. So if you are in a good job, then you won't be changing just because you have to wear western formals. Moreover, not all body types fit into western clothes and look plump, hence feel conscious, but we are talking in general.
Yes, you are talking about being liberal because we are talking about the average Indian company where people must be made to feel they are in the office by making them wear formals because how you dress affects how we behave unconsciously. So if you have heard about even freelancers, they are suggested to dress up even if they are working from home because it changes their attitude too.
Who is thinking of even taking up your suggestions, which are practiced by 1% of companies? HR policies made in idealistic armchair settings don't stand the test of time and are a laughing stock in manufacturing company settings. So please keep your suggestions for your dream company and come to present ground realities, which I guess you are far from.
From India, Bangalore
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Who said wearing formals doesn't help us to focus better? It is your figment of imagination, I suppose.
FYI we are talking in general, not about IT/Media/fashion where it is normal to dress in business casuals.
Except MNCs, I don't think any Indian company doesn't allow Salwar/Sari except for the sales team in some cases. If you know any Indian company, name it?
As to your wearing western formals, as I have already said earlier, we are not discussing what 1-2 companies are doing, we are discussing what the rest of the 999 companies are doing. Many salespersons are made to wear ties in hot humid climates. They do feel adjusted. So if you are in a good job, then you won't be changing just because you have to wear western formals. Moreover, not all body types fit into western clothes and look plump, hence feel conscious, but we are talking in general.
Yes, you are talking about being liberal because we are talking about the average Indian company where people must be made to feel they are in the office by making them wear formals because how you dress affects how we behave unconsciously. So if you have heard about even freelancers, they are suggested to dress up even if they are working from home because it changes their attitude too.
Who is thinking of even taking up your suggestions, which are practiced by 1% of companies? HR policies made in idealistic armchair settings don't stand the test of time and are a laughing stock in manufacturing company settings. So please keep your suggestions for your dream company and come to present ground realities, which I guess you are far from.
From India, Bangalore
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Dear Madam,
If you had been reading properly, I said if following a company policy makes someone dissatisfied, then so be it. Don't come aboard then. But don't make a fuss after coming. People will always have expectations beyond what the organization can provide. Hearing is one thing, and bending policies is another. Following company policies doesn't make anyone inhuman. I am here not to croon lullabies to a few, nor am I interested in being a mother to them.
IT/media/fashion are not trendsetters. They are different industries. You can be creative in your resume while applying to them because creative people are handled differently, so the industry is usually lenient with them because they don't have fixed working hours, hence liberty in dressing, and they appreciate it. You ought to know that before taking my criticism personally.
Why should your work team have a problem with you wearing business casuals? Is it a norm in your company to comment on what dress you wear every time?
We are not interested in what your statistics are regarding your dressing pattern but rather in general dressing rules. It is pretty apparent that people, in the name of trying new HR policies (reinventing the wheel, I suppose), are being made in an armchair setting, that too by people who have never seen the inside of a factory setting where thousands of ordinary people work, not some BPO setting dealing with teenage tantrums. I suggest you go meet people in the factory to know the real India!!!
Thank you.
From India, Bangalore
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If you had been reading properly, I said if following a company policy makes someone dissatisfied, then so be it. Don't come aboard then. But don't make a fuss after coming. People will always have expectations beyond what the organization can provide. Hearing is one thing, and bending policies is another. Following company policies doesn't make anyone inhuman. I am here not to croon lullabies to a few, nor am I interested in being a mother to them.
IT/media/fashion are not trendsetters. They are different industries. You can be creative in your resume while applying to them because creative people are handled differently, so the industry is usually lenient with them because they don't have fixed working hours, hence liberty in dressing, and they appreciate it. You ought to know that before taking my criticism personally.
Why should your work team have a problem with you wearing business casuals? Is it a norm in your company to comment on what dress you wear every time?
We are not interested in what your statistics are regarding your dressing pattern but rather in general dressing rules. It is pretty apparent that people, in the name of trying new HR policies (reinventing the wheel, I suppose), are being made in an armchair setting, that too by people who have never seen the inside of a factory setting where thousands of ordinary people work, not some BPO setting dealing with teenage tantrums. I suggest you go meet people in the factory to know the real India!!!
Thank you.
From India, Bangalore
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