mr neeraj
what are the principle of natural justice .it is for conifrmed workmen he has not completed probation or 240 days we are not reqd to go for principle of natural justice .we are just not happy with his performance and terminating his services.
tks
j s malik
From India, Delhi
167what are the principle of natural justice .it is for conifrmed workmen he has not completed probation or 240 days we are not reqd to go for principle of natural justice .we are just not happy with his performance and terminating his services.
tks
j s malik
From India, Delhi
Dear Mr. Vijay,
As per the rule, the employer must take this into consideration as prescribed in his appointment letter.
company has liable to pay 2 month salery or two month preor notice as per standing order.
Jitendra
From India, Hyderabad
As per the rule, the employer must take this into consideration as prescribed in his appointment letter.
company has liable to pay 2 month salery or two month preor notice as per standing order.
Jitendra
From India, Hyderabad
Dear All,
We really had a meaningful discussion on this topic. Following emerged after this discussion :-
- We have to pay two months salary to the employee
- We should have issued notice before two months
- Terms and conditions of the dismissal under probation period should have been mentioned on the Appointment letter.
I am still not convinced with Mr Malik's remarks that we can sack an employee at any time when he is under probation period. I think he has got full right to know the valid reason for his dismissal.
I welcome more recommendations and remarks on this topic.
Regards,
From India, Bangalore
We really had a meaningful discussion on this topic. Following emerged after this discussion :-
- We have to pay two months salary to the employee
- We should have issued notice before two months
- Terms and conditions of the dismissal under probation period should have been mentioned on the Appointment letter.
I am still not convinced with Mr Malik's remarks that we can sack an employee at any time when he is under probation period. I think he has got full right to know the valid reason for his dismissal.
I welcome more recommendations and remarks on this topic.
Regards,
From India, Bangalore
Which country did this take place in?
Does your company have P & P / Standing orders/ Employee handbook for its staff?
Is the appointment letter clear and does it cover the employees position during probation?
If the above is standard in your company then you have to ensure that the company's commitments to the employee are honoured.
Regards
PVQ
From United Arab Emirates, Dubai
Does your company have P & P / Standing orders/ Employee handbook for its staff?
Is the appointment letter clear and does it cover the employees position during probation?
If the above is standard in your company then you have to ensure that the company's commitments to the employee are honoured.
Regards
PVQ
From United Arab Emirates, Dubai
You cannot sack an employee if you dont like his/her face.
There has to be a concrete reason for termination and it has to be documented.
The employee has a right to know the reason for termination.
In the case of redundancy the position held by the defunct employee will not be 'filled' and in many cases the department will be restructured to show this.
Labour laws in most countries will enforce this.
Regards
PVQ
From United Arab Emirates, Dubai
There has to be a concrete reason for termination and it has to be documented.
The employee has a right to know the reason for termination.
In the case of redundancy the position held by the defunct employee will not be 'filled' and in many cases the department will be restructured to show this.
Labour laws in most countries will enforce this.
Regards
PVQ
From United Arab Emirates, Dubai
Hi,
If you make an allegation against an employee, you have to establish the same through a domestic enquiry, by observing the principles of natural justice.
If the procedure is not followed the employee may claim relief alleging wrongful dismissal.
The safest course is to terminate the employee by giving the required notice and without making any allegations.
Cyril
From India, Nagpur
If you make an allegation against an employee, you have to establish the same through a domestic enquiry, by observing the principles of natural justice.
If the procedure is not followed the employee may claim relief alleging wrongful dismissal.
The safest course is to terminate the employee by giving the required notice and without making any allegations.
Cyril
From India, Nagpur
under the standing orders a person is legally on probation for 3 months only; a probaioner is a person appointed for a position likely to be made permanent subject to performance - hence after 3 months one needs to give natural justice to the employee and the punishment must be in proportion to the misconduct and not more, i would understand making some remarks may call at most for a oral/written warning not not to repeat the misconduct again in the future.
during the first 3 months notice is not required.
however, if the appointment letter says two months notice, that needs to be honoured - however, one must be given justice and punishment must be in proportion to the crime.
In this case it may perhaps be settled by being fair to him and giving him the stipulated two months notice as out of the court settlement, the dismissal having occured on the loss of confidence in the employee owing to his behaviour spoiling the discipline of the organisation.
hope the above would enable throw some more light on the theme, to the best of my knowledge and belief.
regards/kshantaram
From India, Ahmadabad
during the first 3 months notice is not required.
however, if the appointment letter says two months notice, that needs to be honoured - however, one must be given justice and punishment must be in proportion to the crime.
In this case it may perhaps be settled by being fair to him and giving him the stipulated two months notice as out of the court settlement, the dismissal having occured on the loss of confidence in the employee owing to his behaviour spoiling the discipline of the organisation.
hope the above would enable throw some more light on the theme, to the best of my knowledge and belief.
regards/kshantaram
From India, Ahmadabad
In Indian Labor Laws, though you have Apprentices Act but nothing has been specified about probation period. It varies from 3 months to 12 months (and now you have mentioned about two years, I am not sure if you are talking about probation period of two years or a contract of two years), based on the level of appointment. For example, if you are hiring a fresher or someone through campus recruitment then the probation will be higher compare to if you are hiring someone experienced.
Probation is like an engagement where employer and employee both are free to terminate a relation without much hassle. This the time to check the performance of an individual and the employee in turns evaluate the policies and benefits of the company. During the probation, an employee can be terminated for indiscipline, misbehavior and non-performance. Interesting thing is that if you are terminating someone during probation, you are not obliged to conduct any enquiry.
Regarding two month salary, it all depends up on the notice period as mentioned in the letter of appointment. If it is mentioned in the letter that, “in case of separation during the probation period, either party needs to give a two months notice period” and the company has not given notice to him, in that case…under law, he is entitled for salary in lieu of his notice period.
I hope this will give you some clarity.
Thanks and Regards
Sanjeev
From India, Mumbai
Probation is like an engagement where employer and employee both are free to terminate a relation without much hassle. This the time to check the performance of an individual and the employee in turns evaluate the policies and benefits of the company. During the probation, an employee can be terminated for indiscipline, misbehavior and non-performance. Interesting thing is that if you are terminating someone during probation, you are not obliged to conduct any enquiry.
Regarding two month salary, it all depends up on the notice period as mentioned in the letter of appointment. If it is mentioned in the letter that, “in case of separation during the probation period, either party needs to give a two months notice period” and the company has not given notice to him, in that case…under law, he is entitled for salary in lieu of his notice period.
I hope this will give you some clarity.
Thanks and Regards
Sanjeev
From India, Mumbai
Hi
I have read your post and my observations are as follows :
1. It appears that you are still under construction and have not started the manufacturing operations. If so then you are not a " factory ' or "industry".
2. The state ID Act or Central ID Act , as the case may be depending upon your location or type of industry , will be applicable when you commence your manufacturing operations. The same will be true with the application of model standing orders / provision of having Certified Standing Orders.
3. Check up with the applicable model standing orders about the probation period. Do they prescribe the maximum probation period and also about extension of probation peiod.
4. Generally probation periods range from 6 months to 1 year and unless confirmed by a written order from the competent authority , a probationer is deemed to be on probation. In other words there is no automatic confirmation by flux of time.
5. Removal of a probationer must be done at the end of his probation period only. There is no need of any enquiry for it as enquiry is required only when any misconduct is alleged against someone/ probationer.
6. A simple order stating that " the Management is constrained to discharge you from service w.e.f. ( mention date ) as your performance was not found satisfactory during the probation period " is enough.
7. I am not commenting on the specific case mentiond by you as the complete facts have not been stated. Need to examine the appointment letter also.
Best of Luck
Mohan.
From India
I have read your post and my observations are as follows :
1. It appears that you are still under construction and have not started the manufacturing operations. If so then you are not a " factory ' or "industry".
2. The state ID Act or Central ID Act , as the case may be depending upon your location or type of industry , will be applicable when you commence your manufacturing operations. The same will be true with the application of model standing orders / provision of having Certified Standing Orders.
3. Check up with the applicable model standing orders about the probation period. Do they prescribe the maximum probation period and also about extension of probation peiod.
4. Generally probation periods range from 6 months to 1 year and unless confirmed by a written order from the competent authority , a probationer is deemed to be on probation. In other words there is no automatic confirmation by flux of time.
5. Removal of a probationer must be done at the end of his probation period only. There is no need of any enquiry for it as enquiry is required only when any misconduct is alleged against someone/ probationer.
6. A simple order stating that " the Management is constrained to discharge you from service w.e.f. ( mention date ) as your performance was not found satisfactory during the probation period " is enough.
7. I am not commenting on the specific case mentiond by you as the complete facts have not been stated. Need to examine the appointment letter also.
Best of Luck
Mohan.
From India
Dear Vijay
as per P.F Act when the no. of person is 20 ( including contractors) the p.f is applicable on the establishment , it may be factory , shop or other commerical unit , so there is no relation of production to p.f , so u have to apply fornthe Ist day when the srength is total 20
Secondly for factories act first building plans should be approved by the chief inspector factories of particulars state and after that , at the time of trial production u can apply for the factories act , that is beacause when factories inspector will come for the inspection , u unit will be in opertions.
i hope it will satisfy,if some query related to it mail to me for free discussion
Thanks
Ram Naresh
From India
as per P.F Act when the no. of person is 20 ( including contractors) the p.f is applicable on the establishment , it may be factory , shop or other commerical unit , so there is no relation of production to p.f , so u have to apply fornthe Ist day when the srength is total 20
Secondly for factories act first building plans should be approved by the chief inspector factories of particulars state and after that , at the time of trial production u can apply for the factories act , that is beacause when factories inspector will come for the inspection , u unit will be in opertions.
i hope it will satisfy,if some query related to it mail to me for free discussion
Thanks
Ram Naresh
From India
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