Dear Dhurvin
I can’t give an answer to your problem, because problem is yours not mine and you yourself have to find answers to the problem as, you are the best judge to your situation.
I am not practically good HR, forget about being practically good HR, I am not even theoretically good HR. All I know is situational HR.
But still I will never claim that I am good HR, because the day I claim so, I stand to lose my learning curve.
Anyways, coming back to your problem, I suggest you take average cost of petrol expenses in last one year, and then settle on an average price, and then fix it has the maximum limit.
This will solve your first problem to great extend. And then about people not coming to work, make it compulsory for people to report to work and then proceed to work, if they don’t report to work then mark them absent.
Also if it’s a sales call that they are going, then let don’t give them details as to which customer to visit for sales till they report to office.
Always remember, all ideas need to be marketed well. I have full confidence that you will be able to market it well, just the way you marketed your question here in citehr
Regards
Octavious
From India, Mumbai
576I can’t give an answer to your problem, because problem is yours not mine and you yourself have to find answers to the problem as, you are the best judge to your situation.
I am not practically good HR, forget about being practically good HR, I am not even theoretically good HR. All I know is situational HR.
But still I will never claim that I am good HR, because the day I claim so, I stand to lose my learning curve.
Anyways, coming back to your problem, I suggest you take average cost of petrol expenses in last one year, and then settle on an average price, and then fix it has the maximum limit.
This will solve your first problem to great extend. And then about people not coming to work, make it compulsory for people to report to work and then proceed to work, if they don’t report to work then mark them absent.
Also if it’s a sales call that they are going, then let don’t give them details as to which customer to visit for sales till they report to office.
Always remember, all ideas need to be marketed well. I have full confidence that you will be able to market it well, just the way you marketed your question here in citehr
Regards
Octavious
From India, Mumbai
It is a best example of absence of explicit employment terms.
Suggesting to revise the terms, get it approved by management and propose to engineers. Have more than one plan, so that if majority deny to accept, you can propose another plan and avoid further discussions and delay.
Normally conveyance would be part of CTC. Customer visit expenses would be reimbursed (petrol expense or taxi rent or commuting expenses) as per a fixed policy and better not to mix up
From India, Bangalore
Suggesting to revise the terms, get it approved by management and propose to engineers. Have more than one plan, so that if majority deny to accept, you can propose another plan and avoid further discussions and delay.
Normally conveyance would be part of CTC. Customer visit expenses would be reimbursed (petrol expense or taxi rent or commuting expenses) as per a fixed policy and better not to mix up
From India, Bangalore
Dear Dhruvin,
As all the members I also aggree that I am not a Good H.R. but please understand the situation of the Engineers, who are working in the field. They have calls across the city as per the limits assigned to them. The Clients meeting are not done as per the specified time, and all appointments are not at single place it is differed and in this situation if you are aksing to come daily to Office in Morning and Evening it will be time consuming and expensive for engineers. The conveyance you are paying in the Salary is a Staturoty part which is exempted from the IT.
To and Fro comming to office and then going to field will be waste of time., and petrol of course, if you are not paying do not expect to shell the amount from t heir pocket. however the performnance can itself tell who is working and who is not working. Reports and telephonic reports will update regarding their working status.
Regards,
SIDMAN
From India, Madras
As all the members I also aggree that I am not a Good H.R. but please understand the situation of the Engineers, who are working in the field. They have calls across the city as per the limits assigned to them. The Clients meeting are not done as per the specified time, and all appointments are not at single place it is differed and in this situation if you are aksing to come daily to Office in Morning and Evening it will be time consuming and expensive for engineers. The conveyance you are paying in the Salary is a Staturoty part which is exempted from the IT.
To and Fro comming to office and then going to field will be waste of time., and petrol of course, if you are not paying do not expect to shell the amount from t heir pocket. however the performnance can itself tell who is working and who is not working. Reports and telephonic reports will update regarding their working status.
Regards,
SIDMAN
From India, Madras
Mr. Dhruvin first i wud like to know whether you are requesting or seeking for the help/suggestion in this regards or threatening us...
What do you mean by your subject line "Give me ans if you are practically good HR[/B]" do you know what your subject line is saying here..
And about your problem, you need to show them their contract papers and compensation (Salary Break-up) details wherein you have enclosed this conveyance allowance if you are actually paying this to them but yes it is indeed irrelevant demand from their side and they should not ask you for the conveyance while you’r already providing them cab facilities.
If they are not coming office, give them a notice that their duties will be suspended accordingly if they will remain on leave or disobey the rules and try to avoid the norms of employment contract/agreement and mark them absents from duty and cut the salaries accordingly. Definitely they will realizes this and rejoin you.
As you said that you are not able to find their activities whether they are on tour or not and to track their daily activities, you just need to ask them for proper approval of their supervisors that how many days they will be on tour/visits or for which purpose. Anyway this is needed to be done by their supervisor as they are directly authorised to get their work done by them. Im also from an Engineering company and knows very well the activities of Engineers and others
And im sorry to tell you that your personnel and HR department is good for nothing and also your departments heads are not performing their job as they supposed to do bcz how can their subordinates and other junior employee supposed to be on tour and without knowing them and confirmation, dont know how your organization is running while your employees and departments heads are not functioning properly and you have no faith on them.
Finally i wanna say that you dont need to be worry about anything if their supervisors are not complaining about their activities whether their work is suffering bcz of them or not. If they are happy with their performance of the employees and have no complains about it and have no problem with their work style, i dont think you need to take this issues very seriously but just do your work accordingly as you are responsible for personnel work only not for their work and work style and they are direct under their supervisor and they have to show their concern in this regard.
From India, Gurgaon
What do you mean by your subject line "Give me ans if you are practically good HR[/B]" do you know what your subject line is saying here..
And about your problem, you need to show them their contract papers and compensation (Salary Break-up) details wherein you have enclosed this conveyance allowance if you are actually paying this to them but yes it is indeed irrelevant demand from their side and they should not ask you for the conveyance while you’r already providing them cab facilities.
If they are not coming office, give them a notice that their duties will be suspended accordingly if they will remain on leave or disobey the rules and try to avoid the norms of employment contract/agreement and mark them absents from duty and cut the salaries accordingly. Definitely they will realizes this and rejoin you.
As you said that you are not able to find their activities whether they are on tour or not and to track their daily activities, you just need to ask them for proper approval of their supervisors that how many days they will be on tour/visits or for which purpose. Anyway this is needed to be done by their supervisor as they are directly authorised to get their work done by them. Im also from an Engineering company and knows very well the activities of Engineers and others
And im sorry to tell you that your personnel and HR department is good for nothing and also your departments heads are not performing their job as they supposed to do bcz how can their subordinates and other junior employee supposed to be on tour and without knowing them and confirmation, dont know how your organization is running while your employees and departments heads are not functioning properly and you have no faith on them.
Finally i wanna say that you dont need to be worry about anything if their supervisors are not complaining about their activities whether their work is suffering bcz of them or not. If they are happy with their performance of the employees and have no complains about it and have no problem with their work style, i dont think you need to take this issues very seriously but just do your work accordingly as you are responsible for personnel work only not for their work and work style and they are direct under their supervisor and they have to show their concern in this regard.
From India, Gurgaon
Dear Dhruvin
One more thing what you can do is, request your employees to make a call from the land line of the customers/clients office to your office, each time they visit the customer/clients office and leave their office. This way you will always know if they have really had visited the customers/clients place or not.
Employees who don’t make such calls will be deemed to have not visited the client’s office.
One more thing, for every problem there is a solution, and in every solution there will be a glitch, there is nothing known as perfect problem and perfect solution, but only practical problems and practical solution.
So as you have so many solutions and suggestion, pick the one that suits you the best.
But remember one thing these are not permanent solution. You have to have faith in your employees and you need to instill the sense of responsibility in your employees by continuous counseling and persuasion
Regards
Octavious
From India, Mumbai
One more thing what you can do is, request your employees to make a call from the land line of the customers/clients office to your office, each time they visit the customer/clients office and leave their office. This way you will always know if they have really had visited the customers/clients place or not.
Employees who don’t make such calls will be deemed to have not visited the client’s office.
One more thing, for every problem there is a solution, and in every solution there will be a glitch, there is nothing known as perfect problem and perfect solution, but only practical problems and practical solution.
So as you have so many solutions and suggestion, pick the one that suits you the best.
But remember one thing these are not permanent solution. You have to have faith in your employees and you need to instill the sense of responsibility in your employees by continuous counseling and persuasion
Regards
Octavious
From India, Mumbai
Dear All Member
Firstly I want to tell you that i am not here to judge anyone weather they are good hr or not so please don't take it negatively
i had given this heading because i feel this can help me to get maximum reply form people to solve my problem not to make any issue on hr profession and peoples and because of thread heading if i have hurt anyone then please forgive me..
Secondly i feel that being strict by their contractual papers and terms is not good for orgn because it may create negative impression on people it also demotivate and demoralize them to not give 100% effort in their job
All members suggestion are helpful to solve problem but i feel suggestion given by(member octavious) are really good and as per situation
I thankful all of you for your valuable suggestion and if you have anymore then request to introduce
Regards
Dhruvin
From India, Ahmadabad
Firstly I want to tell you that i am not here to judge anyone weather they are good hr or not so please don't take it negatively
i had given this heading because i feel this can help me to get maximum reply form people to solve my problem not to make any issue on hr profession and peoples and because of thread heading if i have hurt anyone then please forgive me..
Secondly i feel that being strict by their contractual papers and terms is not good for orgn because it may create negative impression on people it also demotivate and demoralize them to not give 100% effort in their job
All members suggestion are helpful to solve problem but i feel suggestion given by(member octavious) are really good and as per situation
I thankful all of you for your valuable suggestion and if you have anymore then request to introduce
Regards
Dhruvin
From India, Ahmadabad
Dear Dhurvin,
The problem you are encountering today may be because some Department Head would have inadvertently approved a conveyance reimbursement for an employee for commuting from residence to office and the Finance department would have passed the voucher by oversight. Encouraged by this other employees would have followed suit.
At some point of time this matter would have been noticed by some loyal employee, but owing to fear of facing the wrath of fellow employees he would have remained silent. The question is Who has to bell the cat? We come across this situation in certain instances in each of our organisations.
My humble request correct the things in your organisation which in your opinion is incorrect by suitably discussing with the concerned senior colleagues.
To answer your query,
If in your opinion you feel that it is important for the employee to report to office every day without fail before reporting at client's site then please insist this. Please remember in most companies Conveyance allowance is restricted to Rs.800/- to benefit the employee as this is the amount exempted under the IT act. By doing so the employee fails to recognise that he is being compensated by the company on some other earning head. So it will be wise on your part to assess the actual conveyance incurred by them and make a lumpsum payment. While finalising your earning package in future ensure that this earning head (conveyance allowance) is revised each time to give a feeling that the employees get compensated for the rise in conveyance expenses.
On the other hand if you feel that it will be worthwhile for the employee to report at client's site, you end up saving time for the employee as he has to commute to office and then to client's site. He can be more productive as you have cut down on his travelling time. But you have to tell them that they have to strictly abide by the timings at the client's site. If your company starts at 8.00 A.M and the work starts at 6.00 A.M at the clients site you can advise your employee to either report at 6.00 A.M and work for 8 hours from then on or he can report at 8.00 A.M and work for 8.00 Hours. You can give them the freedom of flexi timing. They will be interested in this.
Having said this you need not police on them every day. Ask them to give a missed call on the concerned department head on his mobile. Advise the department head to randomly pick up the calls and discreetly advise them to hand over to a person at the client's site (voice the department head is familiar with). By doing this the employee will have the feel that his presence will be verified at any point of time by his department head. If he fails to connect the client then it means he is lying.
Now put the employee in place. Smart ways of checking on employees have to be deployed rather than spying on them all the time.
If you have the will then you have the way
M.V.KANNAN
From India, Madras
The problem you are encountering today may be because some Department Head would have inadvertently approved a conveyance reimbursement for an employee for commuting from residence to office and the Finance department would have passed the voucher by oversight. Encouraged by this other employees would have followed suit.
At some point of time this matter would have been noticed by some loyal employee, but owing to fear of facing the wrath of fellow employees he would have remained silent. The question is Who has to bell the cat? We come across this situation in certain instances in each of our organisations.
My humble request correct the things in your organisation which in your opinion is incorrect by suitably discussing with the concerned senior colleagues.
To answer your query,
If in your opinion you feel that it is important for the employee to report to office every day without fail before reporting at client's site then please insist this. Please remember in most companies Conveyance allowance is restricted to Rs.800/- to benefit the employee as this is the amount exempted under the IT act. By doing so the employee fails to recognise that he is being compensated by the company on some other earning head. So it will be wise on your part to assess the actual conveyance incurred by them and make a lumpsum payment. While finalising your earning package in future ensure that this earning head (conveyance allowance) is revised each time to give a feeling that the employees get compensated for the rise in conveyance expenses.
On the other hand if you feel that it will be worthwhile for the employee to report at client's site, you end up saving time for the employee as he has to commute to office and then to client's site. He can be more productive as you have cut down on his travelling time. But you have to tell them that they have to strictly abide by the timings at the client's site. If your company starts at 8.00 A.M and the work starts at 6.00 A.M at the clients site you can advise your employee to either report at 6.00 A.M and work for 8 hours from then on or he can report at 8.00 A.M and work for 8.00 Hours. You can give them the freedom of flexi timing. They will be interested in this.
Having said this you need not police on them every day. Ask them to give a missed call on the concerned department head on his mobile. Advise the department head to randomly pick up the calls and discreetly advise them to hand over to a person at the client's site (voice the department head is familiar with). By doing this the employee will have the feel that his presence will be verified at any point of time by his department head. If he fails to connect the client then it means he is lying.
Now put the employee in place. Smart ways of checking on employees have to be deployed rather than spying on them all the time.
If you have the will then you have the way
M.V.KANNAN
From India, Madras
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