Mr Saswat,
You are clearly forgetting that resignation letter mentions date too.So if you are back dating it after receiving a resignation letter you are clearly doing fraud for which you may be hauled to court.Morever new age banks/IT co have online resignation system too.New age employees will not roll over HR excesses.If company thinks that employee has wasted time at work for 2 months then why din't it issue him show cause notice then itself instead of utilizing him for 2 months & then saying he din't do any work?Can you explain that to the judge?Why did you waited for 2 months to initiate disciplinary action?As to PF documents are nowadays sent over registered post with AD who goes personally for signing,so employee has proof.As to you not signing he can complain & file a RTI as to what happened to his complaint.Then EPF office will be motivated to issue you a show cause notice as to why you din't process after receiving?There are clauses to discipline errant co too-remember that?Then you will hv to explain to higher officials why you din't process it.When the going will get tough remember co will wash off its hands coz nothing is written in hard copy-instructions that you are following.As to attitude about doing work i fully agree that employee should paid only if he does work even though i personally think offer letters are usually loaded in favor of co.For e.g if employee doesn't serve notice period he has to pay 2 months salary while if co waives out notice period it pays only 1 month basic.Just remember that prospective candidates are discussing co & industry on social media so once your co gains ill reputation then you won't be getting talented people to work for you.They are not only looking at salary but career growth & feedback before deciding.So remember the way you bad mouth can come back to you also so dont live under the impression that this is a sellers mkt.
From India, Bangalore
16You are clearly forgetting that resignation letter mentions date too.So if you are back dating it after receiving a resignation letter you are clearly doing fraud for which you may be hauled to court.Morever new age banks/IT co have online resignation system too.New age employees will not roll over HR excesses.If company thinks that employee has wasted time at work for 2 months then why din't it issue him show cause notice then itself instead of utilizing him for 2 months & then saying he din't do any work?Can you explain that to the judge?Why did you waited for 2 months to initiate disciplinary action?As to PF documents are nowadays sent over registered post with AD who goes personally for signing,so employee has proof.As to you not signing he can complain & file a RTI as to what happened to his complaint.Then EPF office will be motivated to issue you a show cause notice as to why you din't process after receiving?There are clauses to discipline errant co too-remember that?Then you will hv to explain to higher officials why you din't process it.When the going will get tough remember co will wash off its hands coz nothing is written in hard copy-instructions that you are following.As to attitude about doing work i fully agree that employee should paid only if he does work even though i personally think offer letters are usually loaded in favor of co.For e.g if employee doesn't serve notice period he has to pay 2 months salary while if co waives out notice period it pays only 1 month basic.Just remember that prospective candidates are discussing co & industry on social media so once your co gains ill reputation then you won't be getting talented people to work for you.They are not only looking at salary but career growth & feedback before deciding.So remember the way you bad mouth can come back to you also so dont live under the impression that this is a sellers mkt.
From India, Bangalore
There is a lot of different between what should happen and what does happen
Eg on PF, there are at least 20 posts on cite.hr where someone has complained to pf department and got no reply. Repeated follow up, still no action. Go ahead and file an RTI. Have you ever tried it ? Sounds nice in news papers. Reality is a lot different.
The court will ask me whyni didn't do x or y ? Let them. The matter will come up for hearing after 5 years probably. Meanwhile the employee will make repeated rounds to the court Nd spend on lawyers. My point is just that. He has created a problem where none was required. The company can fight, deter, spend money on this. Can he ?
We can argue on this for hours. (create a separate post, i will give counter arguments running into pages, with examples) We deviate from what the original poster wants to know. My opinion is that if the company decides not to,pay him, there is little he can do in reality. And what he can do, will give result after a lot of toil, sweat and stress. If he does get his money easily and fast, good for him. I have my doubts.
From India, Mumbai
Eg on PF, there are at least 20 posts on cite.hr where someone has complained to pf department and got no reply. Repeated follow up, still no action. Go ahead and file an RTI. Have you ever tried it ? Sounds nice in news papers. Reality is a lot different.
The court will ask me whyni didn't do x or y ? Let them. The matter will come up for hearing after 5 years probably. Meanwhile the employee will make repeated rounds to the court Nd spend on lawyers. My point is just that. He has created a problem where none was required. The company can fight, deter, spend money on this. Can he ?
We can argue on this for hours. (create a separate post, i will give counter arguments running into pages, with examples) We deviate from what the original poster wants to know. My opinion is that if the company decides not to,pay him, there is little he can do in reality. And what he can do, will give result after a lot of toil, sweat and stress. If he does get his money easily and fast, good for him. I have my doubts.
From India, Mumbai
As an educated person you should first learn about RTI & how it works before speaking about it.It is not the personal fiefdom of some pvt co where HR thinks it is the king.PIO officers get penalized for delay in providing information.There are clauses in EPF where it penalises errant co,these clauses can be used by a person to force PF officials to take action.My father is a lawyer & it will the unluckiest day for your co if at all he decides to fight cases.I dont deny cases may linger but after 5 yrs when it is decided co have been made to pay huge penalty with interest.Apart from that lawyers know how to fast track a case if you are aware of how the bread is buttered from both sides.So i think that day when co is forced to pay for your mistakes & unluckily you are still with them you will be the one terminated.So avoid rule is for HR officials.
From India, Bangalore
From India, Bangalore
Sid,
As I said we can debate this for a long time
Reality is different from what should ideally be. You need a reality check. why don't you do an rti to find out his many complains are pending with pf department in mumbai alone ?
We have acted on both sides. It's a question of how much holding power you have and how you present your case to the court. Check out some of the cases that re there in various threads on cite.hr. cases are decide after appeal 20 years down the line. If your dad wants to fight a case free of cost for 20 years for someone thats another story. In the end, he may still not get paid in case the court decides against him. But do you think an ordinary employee can stand the test ? Not a chance of a cold day in hell.
My point, again, is the same. It's stupid to create a problem where none was needed. Why ? Cause an ordinary employee form a poor or middle class family can't sustain the efforts or cost of fighting a company. Legal route is to be used in extreme cases where the impact is huge, or the level of injustice is too high. (that again is a reality in indian judicial system - ask your ad). Not in a case you created or one where you could gracefully have exited. You can't teach the company a lesson. The sooner you understand that, the better.
Assume for the moment, that you can use the legal route to get 2 months salary, with interest and your pf form signed. What's next ? Can you also take the legal route to get your self a good report in case of a background check ? Can you take the legal route to force your new employer to give you leave of absence regularly to attend court hearing ? Will a prospective employer give you a job if they know or hear you are involved in a labour law case against your previous employer ?
Let's not continue this debate on this thread. It's not of interest to others reading on it.
Incidentally, my company is not going to kick me out of job for someone filing A case against it. But that again, is not a matter of concern for this thread.
From India, Mumbai
As I said we can debate this for a long time
Reality is different from what should ideally be. You need a reality check. why don't you do an rti to find out his many complains are pending with pf department in mumbai alone ?
We have acted on both sides. It's a question of how much holding power you have and how you present your case to the court. Check out some of the cases that re there in various threads on cite.hr. cases are decide after appeal 20 years down the line. If your dad wants to fight a case free of cost for 20 years for someone thats another story. In the end, he may still not get paid in case the court decides against him. But do you think an ordinary employee can stand the test ? Not a chance of a cold day in hell.
My point, again, is the same. It's stupid to create a problem where none was needed. Why ? Cause an ordinary employee form a poor or middle class family can't sustain the efforts or cost of fighting a company. Legal route is to be used in extreme cases where the impact is huge, or the level of injustice is too high. (that again is a reality in indian judicial system - ask your ad). Not in a case you created or one where you could gracefully have exited. You can't teach the company a lesson. The sooner you understand that, the better.
Assume for the moment, that you can use the legal route to get 2 months salary, with interest and your pf form signed. What's next ? Can you also take the legal route to get your self a good report in case of a background check ? Can you take the legal route to force your new employer to give you leave of absence regularly to attend court hearing ? Will a prospective employer give you a job if they know or hear you are involved in a labour law case against your previous employer ?
Let's not continue this debate on this thread. It's not of interest to others reading on it.
Incidentally, my company is not going to kick me out of job for someone filing A case against it. But that again, is not a matter of concern for this thread.
From India, Mumbai
if HR has a serious attitude problem then it shows the company in poor light.It is because of this now some financial services co are unable to get good quality employees even at higher package.I suggest all HR people to please change this regressive attitude of thinking they are born Hitler.They should act compassionate not behave as if company belongs to them.Brand names are tarnished because people think they can do anything & get away.
Morever Mr Saswat I think you should read how to file a RTI before talking about it.Within 1 month PIO needs to give a reply & after that if you are not satisfied there is appeal procedure.I bet you haven't used that.As to court procedure i think you havent seen the inside of a court ever.Cases nowadays dont take 20 yrs FYI.Shall i send you a list of co penalised for not not processing PF?Whether you are poor or middle class family has to do least with the problem.It is about what is right or wrong.Shall i give you a list of wrong mgmt decisions of terminating employees where they had to pay heavily in penalty with interest.I am challenging if i can prove the HR bias in the decision making i can make him pay too as an individual too.So plz come out of your high ground that whatever action you commit will be protected by co legal team.The co will kick out if your personal bias is proved.I dont want to argue but wanted to correct a wrong statement.Next time Mr Saswat do watch out someone who knows the law just wont roll over co excesses & i do not need to brag about my father's success cases in making errant HR people pay.
From India, Bangalore
Morever Mr Saswat I think you should read how to file a RTI before talking about it.Within 1 month PIO needs to give a reply & after that if you are not satisfied there is appeal procedure.I bet you haven't used that.As to court procedure i think you havent seen the inside of a court ever.Cases nowadays dont take 20 yrs FYI.Shall i send you a list of co penalised for not not processing PF?Whether you are poor or middle class family has to do least with the problem.It is about what is right or wrong.Shall i give you a list of wrong mgmt decisions of terminating employees where they had to pay heavily in penalty with interest.I am challenging if i can prove the HR bias in the decision making i can make him pay too as an individual too.So plz come out of your high ground that whatever action you commit will be protected by co legal team.The co will kick out if your personal bias is proved.I dont want to argue but wanted to correct a wrong statement.Next time Mr Saswat do watch out someone who knows the law just wont roll over co excesses & i do not need to brag about my father's success cases in making errant HR people pay.
From India, Bangalore
"Now from last 15 days I’m coming to office everyday with no other go, but not working and just surfing the net (Wikipedia, news and stuff). I will serve the notice period for 2 months, as I’m not interested in working for this organization anymore I’m not working but present in office."
1. Now my question is that if there is any chance that the company will not pay my salary? If they do so, what is that I must do?
This is your first query. Without getting into legality, my question to you is will you pay salary to a person if he comes, sits and browses and goes, if you are the Owner of the organisation?
You had stated that you have financial problems and you can not pay the notice period salary. Then you should take all preautions to ensure that they can not get evidences. With advanced technology, they sure can track what you had been doing in office and can issue a show cause notice asking why the salary can be stopped.Submission of resignation letter should not make you to sit idle.
2. While I'm serving the notice period can the company terminate me, meaning can they issue a releiving letter that I'm terminated? Or is it that they have to releive only and not terminate.
The employer can initiate action . However, unlike in Govt service there is no rule for private organisation for non release of dues till the enquiry is completed. Employer can terminate if they really want to do by conducting an enquiry and completing the same within the next 30 days for your wasting Companys time and resources by browsing
My advice:
If you want to fight it legally, you should resort to legal means. Not working and browsing etc and admitting that you are not interested in doing work sure will not help you to fight legally.
From India, Chennai
1. Now my question is that if there is any chance that the company will not pay my salary? If they do so, what is that I must do?
This is your first query. Without getting into legality, my question to you is will you pay salary to a person if he comes, sits and browses and goes, if you are the Owner of the organisation?
You had stated that you have financial problems and you can not pay the notice period salary. Then you should take all preautions to ensure that they can not get evidences. With advanced technology, they sure can track what you had been doing in office and can issue a show cause notice asking why the salary can be stopped.Submission of resignation letter should not make you to sit idle.
2. While I'm serving the notice period can the company terminate me, meaning can they issue a releiving letter that I'm terminated? Or is it that they have to releive only and not terminate.
The employer can initiate action . However, unlike in Govt service there is no rule for private organisation for non release of dues till the enquiry is completed. Employer can terminate if they really want to do by conducting an enquiry and completing the same within the next 30 days for your wasting Companys time and resources by browsing
My advice:
If you want to fight it legally, you should resort to legal means. Not working and browsing etc and admitting that you are not interested in doing work sure will not help you to fight legally.
From India, Chennai
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