Dear Asha
I appreciate your sentiments about India and about being an Indian. I feel the same way about India.
But if need to improve as a nation we need to look at our weak points, accept our short comings and improve on it. We need to look hard at ourselves. We need to be unhappy with the flaws we see. We need to have the desire to remove the flaws. We can't be too much in love with ourselves that would be patriotism, yes... but lacking depth.
Again I would say generally as a nation we are tooooo tolerant, accept tooo quickly, adopt toooo quickly. Case in point being Terrorism. It takes many many years and a 26/11for us to wake up and do something. Remember - only a few thousand of Mumbaikars brought down the Home Minister & some others. That is the power of protesting and raising your voice.
We need to raise our voice more frequently. Stop tolerating injustice, corruption, exploitation every where. I can expect others to act only if I ACT.
Let's try and build a more ethical & honest way of working in business. That is my endeavour. These kind of protests are a small part of our efforts to build and honest & ethical business society.
Good HR Associates
From India, Chandigarh
4I appreciate your sentiments about India and about being an Indian. I feel the same way about India.
But if need to improve as a nation we need to look at our weak points, accept our short comings and improve on it. We need to look hard at ourselves. We need to be unhappy with the flaws we see. We need to have the desire to remove the flaws. We can't be too much in love with ourselves that would be patriotism, yes... but lacking depth.
Again I would say generally as a nation we are tooooo tolerant, accept tooo quickly, adopt toooo quickly. Case in point being Terrorism. It takes many many years and a 26/11for us to wake up and do something. Remember - only a few thousand of Mumbaikars brought down the Home Minister & some others. That is the power of protesting and raising your voice.
We need to raise our voice more frequently. Stop tolerating injustice, corruption, exploitation every where. I can expect others to act only if I ACT.
Let's try and build a more ethical & honest way of working in business. That is my endeavour. These kind of protests are a small part of our efforts to build and honest & ethical business society.
Good HR Associates
From India, Chandigarh
Hi Swastik
If they are being loyal to their companies by cheating others, that should not be tolerated or accepted.
Here Loyalty is not a virtue but makes them an accomplice in bad HR practices, fraud, deceit & cheating.
Would anyone like to be known as a "Loyal Thief" . yes, but only in his own Gang of thieves. Terrorsits are also loyal to their outfits. Should we tolerate them becuase they are "Loyal".
We need to see in what context they are loyal. If I pay you to steal, will you do it? It is the question of Ethics, following corrupt practices and cheating. A cheat is a cheat is a cheat, how ever loyal.
Good HR Associates
From India, Chandigarh
If they are being loyal to their companies by cheating others, that should not be tolerated or accepted.
Here Loyalty is not a virtue but makes them an accomplice in bad HR practices, fraud, deceit & cheating.
Would anyone like to be known as a "Loyal Thief" . yes, but only in his own Gang of thieves. Terrorsits are also loyal to their outfits. Should we tolerate them becuase they are "Loyal".
We need to see in what context they are loyal. If I pay you to steal, will you do it? It is the question of Ethics, following corrupt practices and cheating. A cheat is a cheat is a cheat, how ever loyal.
Good HR Associates
From India, Chandigarh
Hi All,
I disagree about the views posted "The Position is on Hold!" - Are you cheating Mr Manager?
Its is sensible enough that the corporates think twice before allocating the position to consultants .Its fair enough that they require paying a handsome amt towards recruitment.I certainly do not deny the efforts of consultants.
The positions are put on hold due to variety of reasons not necessarily with an intend to cheat the consultant.It is sometimes done to wait till the approval of the clients,to choose between the shortlisted candidates etc..
All of us have to agree that the number of selected candidates is not equal to the joinees.The ratio is around at the maxs 60-70% depending on the industry .HR'S always have to keep this in mind while alocating the positions open.That accoding to me is practicality.
I think you are taking the darker side of things.A very pessimistic view.
"There are always two sides of a coin...its up to you to choose from"
Moreover you are entirely generalising it.HR is HR ,consultant or corporate wondey y so much argument on this anyways.As discussed earlier both have its positives and negatives though.
Though i am not aware of the reason for your frustration i still insist you cannot blame others.Decisions in the company are not based on a single point of view but a series of people.
As far as the question of competency is concerned all of us have our weakness and strenghts whether working for a consultant or a corporate.
Regards,
Divya
From India, Madras
I disagree about the views posted "The Position is on Hold!" - Are you cheating Mr Manager?
Its is sensible enough that the corporates think twice before allocating the position to consultants .Its fair enough that they require paying a handsome amt towards recruitment.I certainly do not deny the efforts of consultants.
The positions are put on hold due to variety of reasons not necessarily with an intend to cheat the consultant.It is sometimes done to wait till the approval of the clients,to choose between the shortlisted candidates etc..
All of us have to agree that the number of selected candidates is not equal to the joinees.The ratio is around at the maxs 60-70% depending on the industry .HR'S always have to keep this in mind while alocating the positions open.That accoding to me is practicality.
I think you are taking the darker side of things.A very pessimistic view.
"There are always two sides of a coin...its up to you to choose from"
Moreover you are entirely generalising it.HR is HR ,consultant or corporate wondey y so much argument on this anyways.As discussed earlier both have its positives and negatives though.
Though i am not aware of the reason for your frustration i still insist you cannot blame others.Decisions in the company are not based on a single point of view but a series of people.
As far as the question of competency is concerned all of us have our weakness and strenghts whether working for a consultant or a corporate.
Regards,
Divya
From India, Madras
Dear Shailender
Thanks for your forthright view.
We realize the situation the Corp HR is in. We know sometimes things are dictated by higher ups / others. We empathize with the Good Corp HR on this account.
I would only be concerned about the Malpractices which are followed by some of the Corp HR professionals themselves.
That should stop.
For us, the HR Manager is THE Client. We look up to him to give us a fair chance to earn an honest living. Give us a level playing field.....and then may the smartest, most resourceful, most hardworking, ethical & honest consultant win!
Good HR Asociates
From India, Chandigarh
Thanks for your forthright view.
We realize the situation the Corp HR is in. We know sometimes things are dictated by higher ups / others. We empathize with the Good Corp HR on this account.
I would only be concerned about the Malpractices which are followed by some of the Corp HR professionals themselves.
That should stop.
For us, the HR Manager is THE Client. We look up to him to give us a fair chance to earn an honest living. Give us a level playing field.....and then may the smartest, most resourceful, most hardworking, ethical & honest consultant win!
Good HR Asociates
From India, Chandigarh
Dear
Point here is that you forward a profile internally and get a nod. What if the candidate says he is not interested?
The whole point is getting a "Passive" candidate interested & excited about an opening by selling it to him in the right way.
The consultants sell the position in a way the client can't sell. And once the consultant has successfully been able to convince the candidate to explore the opening, the client "duplicates" the profile just because he had also downloaded it.
We need to realize that there only so many candidates fiiting the criteria the client is looking for. Most of the Good candidates ( By rule) would not be convinced easily to change. So it boils down to the selling part.
Who actually sold the position to the candidate? I hope all the recruiters will agree the finally Recruitment is a selling business.
As far as job portals are concerned most have their CV's posted up. As I said in an earlier post we have been able to convince good candidates after they have refused to a client!! That should be proof enough that it is the selling of the position which matters
I hope you are convinced. I am sure most of the consultants would agree with me.
Good HR Associates
From India, Chandigarh
Point here is that you forward a profile internally and get a nod. What if the candidate says he is not interested?
The whole point is getting a "Passive" candidate interested & excited about an opening by selling it to him in the right way.
The consultants sell the position in a way the client can't sell. And once the consultant has successfully been able to convince the candidate to explore the opening, the client "duplicates" the profile just because he had also downloaded it.
We need to realize that there only so many candidates fiiting the criteria the client is looking for. Most of the Good candidates ( By rule) would not be convinced easily to change. So it boils down to the selling part.
Who actually sold the position to the candidate? I hope all the recruiters will agree the finally Recruitment is a selling business.
As far as job portals are concerned most have their CV's posted up. As I said in an earlier post we have been able to convince good candidates after they have refused to a client!! That should be proof enough that it is the selling of the position which matters
I hope you are convinced. I am sure most of the consultants would agree with me.
Good HR Associates
From India, Chandigarh
Dear Rajita This is the wrong thread to post this. Please start a fresh thread woith your request. Good HR Associates
From India, Chandigarh
From India, Chandigarh
this is not like that, some time when hr people not found job match profiles or want to fill position internally they tells to consultant position is on hold.
Some time hr people success to retain people after recieving resignation.
i am not agree with the view, yes if the position arises it can't be hold must have to filled by externally or internally.
some time consultant are hurry to get outcomes & making no of calls to hr people, they get irritated with the same & mostly reply that position is HOLD.
i think all of you may be agree as above. its all about relations how long you want to retain its up to you don't blame hole hr people without knowing facts.
From India, Delhi
Some time hr people success to retain people after recieving resignation.
i am not agree with the view, yes if the position arises it can't be hold must have to filled by externally or internally.
some time consultant are hurry to get outcomes & making no of calls to hr people, they get irritated with the same & mostly reply that position is HOLD.
i think all of you may be agree as above. its all about relations how long you want to retain its up to you don't blame hole hr people without knowing facts.
From India, Delhi
Dear Divya
I agree that there could be genuine reasons when a position goes on hold. We come to know about that.
You mean to say that each and every time a position goes on Hold (which happens a LOT!) - not be be revived again, there is a genuine reason!
Putting on hold till the profiles are being shortlisted / processed , candidates being interviewd - is fine, we understand. But what about an "Urgent" position which is put on hold ( for Good) once enough work has been done on it. And then we find one of our candiates has joined after interviews were conducted without informing us?
many a times we are told that our candidate has got rejected and two weeks later we find that he has joined. Meanwhile the The Bad Corp HR is interacting with us on whole lot of new positions and conveniently avoids telling us that. This is cheating!! Is it not??
Are you telling me Corp HR does not create it's own database & their own pipeline of candidates using consultants?
We are forced to look at the darker side because it is OUR effort which goes waste. It is WE who are taken for ride & used. And we want the BAD Corp HR to stop doing it.
The Good Corp HR who do their Jobs honestly are not in question here. Only the Cheats who also form part of the Corp HR.
Would good people like you not like to tell your bad HR bretherns to please stop exploting consultants.
Again the advise would come..Aree yaar..ye sab to chalta hai....don't cry..
Good HR Associates
From India, Chandigarh
I agree that there could be genuine reasons when a position goes on hold. We come to know about that.
You mean to say that each and every time a position goes on Hold (which happens a LOT!) - not be be revived again, there is a genuine reason!
Putting on hold till the profiles are being shortlisted / processed , candidates being interviewd - is fine, we understand. But what about an "Urgent" position which is put on hold ( for Good) once enough work has been done on it. And then we find one of our candiates has joined after interviews were conducted without informing us?
many a times we are told that our candidate has got rejected and two weeks later we find that he has joined. Meanwhile the The Bad Corp HR is interacting with us on whole lot of new positions and conveniently avoids telling us that. This is cheating!! Is it not??
Are you telling me Corp HR does not create it's own database & their own pipeline of candidates using consultants?
We are forced to look at the darker side because it is OUR effort which goes waste. It is WE who are taken for ride & used. And we want the BAD Corp HR to stop doing it.
The Good Corp HR who do their Jobs honestly are not in question here. Only the Cheats who also form part of the Corp HR.
Would good people like you not like to tell your bad HR bretherns to please stop exploting consultants.
Again the advise would come..Aree yaar..ye sab to chalta hai....don't cry..
Good HR Associates
From India, Chandigarh
Hi,
Yes there are the people, who are practicing this kind of cheep tricks.
We do hiring, and recently i just found, when we asked our consultant, for the profiles.
Surprisingly, we found in that profiles, there is no contact details of the candidates, that means we need to depend purly on the consultant, till it closes, even there is no mail id also...
So henceforth, can practice the same kind of way, while forwarding the profiles to th eHR managers/ corporate heads.
Its not wrong to safe guard your business and your efforts
Regards
Rajanikanth
Asst Manager-HR
From India, Hyderabad
Yes there are the people, who are practicing this kind of cheep tricks.
We do hiring, and recently i just found, when we asked our consultant, for the profiles.
Surprisingly, we found in that profiles, there is no contact details of the candidates, that means we need to depend purly on the consultant, till it closes, even there is no mail id also...
So henceforth, can practice the same kind of way, while forwarding the profiles to th eHR managers/ corporate heads.
Its not wrong to safe guard your business and your efforts
Regards
Rajanikanth
Asst Manager-HR
From India, Hyderabad
Dear GHA,
I agree - selling is different. May be you can do it much better than the corporate HR.
But why not be on the safer side. Ask them for the list of people (names who are in the process already / or already down loaded). I guess it should be of no problem to them.
I did that in my previous co - to help my consultant understand that "I already have a set of profiles". COnvincing a candidate has never been an issue from my end... Infact - my consultant shared a wonderful profile with me. I was excited..so was my Managing Director. But the consultant could not convince, so he called me and asked ME to convince his candidate.
I did it. He was convinced. (not selected after interview tho...becos position went on hold!)
So - you see, efforts are there from both the ends. My consultant was upset that the position went on hold, becos he felt that "MY" efforts went for a waste. Its a team work GHA...
Had we hired that person, we would have definitely paid them! ( u see....finding a passive profile is soooo hard, we know that.)
And abt acting / talking against violence - yes we should Act for others to act.
never blame. (I have done this - it does nopt work for me.. ppl just join the blame game) Start by highlighting and showing facts.
I can give u "n" number of facts that would highlight why India is a million times better than US clients. Trust me - a few suck to the core.
You were asking why I protested against female insecurity.
I did not protest.- we are creating awareness among women - on how to react.
If I sit and complain, everyone will say "Yes Yes...some men are bad"
If I give one tight slap to a guy who mis behaves, he will shut his mouth (and I will also know that I need not be afraid and cry).
The awareness part is what we are communicating.
From India, Madras
I agree - selling is different. May be you can do it much better than the corporate HR.
But why not be on the safer side. Ask them for the list of people (names who are in the process already / or already down loaded). I guess it should be of no problem to them.
I did that in my previous co - to help my consultant understand that "I already have a set of profiles". COnvincing a candidate has never been an issue from my end... Infact - my consultant shared a wonderful profile with me. I was excited..so was my Managing Director. But the consultant could not convince, so he called me and asked ME to convince his candidate.
I did it. He was convinced. (not selected after interview tho...becos position went on hold!)
So - you see, efforts are there from both the ends. My consultant was upset that the position went on hold, becos he felt that "MY" efforts went for a waste. Its a team work GHA...
Had we hired that person, we would have definitely paid them! ( u see....finding a passive profile is soooo hard, we know that.)
And abt acting / talking against violence - yes we should Act for others to act.
never blame. (I have done this - it does nopt work for me.. ppl just join the blame game) Start by highlighting and showing facts.
I can give u "n" number of facts that would highlight why India is a million times better than US clients. Trust me - a few suck to the core.
You were asking why I protested against female insecurity.
I did not protest.- we are creating awareness among women - on how to react.
If I sit and complain, everyone will say "Yes Yes...some men are bad"
If I give one tight slap to a guy who mis behaves, he will shut his mouth (and I will also know that I need not be afraid and cry).
The awareness part is what we are communicating.
From India, Madras
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4.5B Changing an Existing Position.doc
L and R Initial Position-1.zip