Hi,
I am working with an IT firm from last 13 years. after one year i became permanent. Recently i came in to freepool.. and after sometimes as there is no project.. HR is asking me to resign. There is no written communication only verbal communication.
During this freepool time, only I am searching for the project... company didn't try to find anything for me. I don't know technically i.e. legally where do i stand but i am working in the managerial role.
What are the options before me ? Can they just take employee for ride ? They are not helping in getting the project... now they have blocked even searching for project in the internal portal. I suspect that they are even blocking me in getting the project
I am searching for outside and will resign... but feel bad that they are taking me for ride. I don't want to resign till i have something... what are the options before me. If they threaten to terminate... can they do so ? There is no disciplinary issue. They will start playing the nerve game... so want to understand... as an organization they have huge resources but as employee or individual i don't have any information access or knowledge about the law.
Thanks
From pune..
From India
I am working with an IT firm from last 13 years. after one year i became permanent. Recently i came in to freepool.. and after sometimes as there is no project.. HR is asking me to resign. There is no written communication only verbal communication.
During this freepool time, only I am searching for the project... company didn't try to find anything for me. I don't know technically i.e. legally where do i stand but i am working in the managerial role.
What are the options before me ? Can they just take employee for ride ? They are not helping in getting the project... now they have blocked even searching for project in the internal portal. I suspect that they are even blocking me in getting the project
I am searching for outside and will resign... but feel bad that they are taking me for ride. I don't want to resign till i have something... what are the options before me. If they threaten to terminate... can they do so ? There is no disciplinary issue. They will start playing the nerve game... so want to understand... as an organization they have huge resources but as employee or individual i don't have any information access or knowledge about the law.
Thanks
From pune..
From India
Hi,
Don't resign. Let the company terminate you because they have no projects.
"Resignation" in legal terms means that you have "resigned on your own accord. Hence companies won't be liable for any consequence thereafter and in short they want to be protected for all liability".
"Termination" can be challenged in court of law. All aspect of termination will be looked into and appropriately awarded by relevant court or Commissioner of Labor if you happen to contest the company decision to terminate you without justifiable ground/reasons.
Termination will help you if u feel u didn't get a good severance/compensation award from your company due to termination.
My suggestion "Don't resign".
UKmitra
From Saudi Arabia, Riyadh
296Don't resign. Let the company terminate you because they have no projects.
"Resignation" in legal terms means that you have "resigned on your own accord. Hence companies won't be liable for any consequence thereafter and in short they want to be protected for all liability".
"Termination" can be challenged in court of law. All aspect of termination will be looked into and appropriately awarded by relevant court or Commissioner of Labor if you happen to contest the company decision to terminate you without justifiable ground/reasons.
Termination will help you if u feel u didn't get a good severance/compensation award from your company due to termination.
My suggestion "Don't resign".
UKmitra
From Saudi Arabia, Riyadh
Dear Pankaj,
You are a quite old employee. Have you worked in the same company for 13 years? If yes, then what is your designation?
If the company has put you in the freepool, they are not helping for you to get a project, and worse still, if they have blocked project-search facility also, then all this shows that you have become persona non grata. These appear to be ploys to make you quit. I recommend you searching for the job vigorously and leave the present company.
By the way, you need to do introspection also. After 13 years, why situation has come to such a pass? Why you could not make yourself indispensable? Why you could not consolidate your position? Did you master skills others than your technical skills?
Earlier there was discussion titled "Use and throw of knowledgeable employees by management. Please check the link to read my reply.
All the best!
Dinesh V Divekar
Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance.
From India, Bangalore
You are a quite old employee. Have you worked in the same company for 13 years? If yes, then what is your designation?
If the company has put you in the freepool, they are not helping for you to get a project, and worse still, if they have blocked project-search facility also, then all this shows that you have become persona non grata. These appear to be ploys to make you quit. I recommend you searching for the job vigorously and leave the present company.
By the way, you need to do introspection also. After 13 years, why situation has come to such a pass? Why you could not make yourself indispensable? Why you could not consolidate your position? Did you master skills others than your technical skills?
Earlier there was discussion titled "Use and throw of knowledgeable employees by management. Please check the link to read my reply.
All the best!
Dinesh V Divekar
Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance.
From India, Bangalore
@ UKMitra : Thanks for reply and giving the confidence to take on the management.
@Dinesh : I slightly disagree with you and somehow not comfortable with Management thoughts on ways to become yourself "indispensible". Blocking of the project search facility they are doing even for the fresh graduates/one year junior employee who remain non-billable from certain days. If they can't predict how much projects they will get then why do they go to campus and hire in big numbers. The biggest problem i have seen at the at junior level it breaks there confidence. Anyways this is a different topic.
I appreciate your reply... and those things always there in mind... Thanks
@ Any one else gone through this situation / handled.... it will be helpful to get the reply.
From India
@Dinesh : I slightly disagree with you and somehow not comfortable with Management thoughts on ways to become yourself "indispensible". Blocking of the project search facility they are doing even for the fresh graduates/one year junior employee who remain non-billable from certain days. If they can't predict how much projects they will get then why do they go to campus and hire in big numbers. The biggest problem i have seen at the at junior level it breaks there confidence. Anyways this is a different topic.
I appreciate your reply... and those things always there in mind... Thanks
@ Any one else gone through this situation / handled.... it will be helpful to get the reply.
From India
@ UKMitra : Thanks for reply and giving the confidence to take on the management.
@Dinesh : I slightly disagree with you and somehow not comfortable with Management thoughts on ways to show yourself "indispensible". There are people who do this and for me most of them are political... try to find ways to blame someone for which they have to be the owner. Anyways i understand what you meant by "indispesible".
Blocking of the project search facility .. they are doing even for the fresh graduates/one year junior employee who remain non-billable from certain days. If they can't predict how much projects they will get then why do they go to campus and hire in big numbers. The biggest problem i have seen at the at junior level it breaks there confidence. Anyways this is a different topic.
I appreciate your reply... and those things always there in mind... Thanks
Business can't be predicted hence they should be fair in dealing in downturn / pickup demands. People take example of US hire-fire policy ..but i understand people also do get the severance package
@ Any one else gone through this situation / handled.... it will be helpful to get the reply.
From India
@Dinesh : I slightly disagree with you and somehow not comfortable with Management thoughts on ways to show yourself "indispensible". There are people who do this and for me most of them are political... try to find ways to blame someone for which they have to be the owner. Anyways i understand what you meant by "indispesible".
Blocking of the project search facility .. they are doing even for the fresh graduates/one year junior employee who remain non-billable from certain days. If they can't predict how much projects they will get then why do they go to campus and hire in big numbers. The biggest problem i have seen at the at junior level it breaks there confidence. Anyways this is a different topic.
I appreciate your reply... and those things always there in mind... Thanks
Business can't be predicted hence they should be fair in dealing in downturn / pickup demands. People take example of US hire-fire policy ..but i understand people also do get the severance package
@ Any one else gone through this situation / handled.... it will be helpful to get the reply.
From India
Hello Jpankajx,
Purely from the LEGAL perspective, UKmitra is ABSOLUTELY right.
However, I guess you also need to bear in-mind the other perspectives BEFORE you decide your course-of-action.
The wordings Dinesh V Divekar used SEEM to have given you of an impression that wasn't intended. What, I THINK, was being pointed-out was this: usually in such situations, there are always signals that emanate BEFORE things come-over into the open. Having worked in this Company for 13 yrs, you OUGHT to have noticed them. Having said that, it's also HUMAN NATURE to miss-out such signals totally even IF they are happening under your nose--mostly to do with complacency that gets derived from long association [be it in official matters or personal relationships]. Fortunately or unfortunately, the tendency to give 'benefit-of-doubt' is high in us humans, even when things are glaringly wrong.
Coming to the other perspectives you MAY need to consider in choosing the options open to you--at the EoD it's YOUR career & life. So any suggestion(s) given should be weighed FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE before implementing it/them.
1] You mentioned "..........They will start playing the nerve game...........". You would need to decide IF you have the penchant AND more importantly the time & energy to handle such mind games AT THIS point of time. This would depend on your OTHER priorities & aspects--like financial, emotional support @ home, family responsibilities, etc--since handling mind games surely would be taxing.
2] Next would be YOUR FOCUS at this point-of-time. Are you OK with the situation festering for a long time--sort of 'who blinks first' & ensuring that YOU DON'T blink first? The chances of such a situation effecting one's Interviews performances would be high--though it varies from individual to individual on the scale of effect.
3] The Third aspect relates to what you mentioned ".............as an organization they have huge resources.........". You haven't mentioned the size OR how well-known is this Company. You will be the Best judge on how the BCs will play-out later on. Had it been a small company, then there could be ways to circumvent assurely-bad BCs, when it comes to that.
Hope you get the point.
All the Best.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
Purely from the LEGAL perspective, UKmitra is ABSOLUTELY right.
However, I guess you also need to bear in-mind the other perspectives BEFORE you decide your course-of-action.
The wordings Dinesh V Divekar used SEEM to have given you of an impression that wasn't intended. What, I THINK, was being pointed-out was this: usually in such situations, there are always signals that emanate BEFORE things come-over into the open. Having worked in this Company for 13 yrs, you OUGHT to have noticed them. Having said that, it's also HUMAN NATURE to miss-out such signals totally even IF they are happening under your nose--mostly to do with complacency that gets derived from long association [be it in official matters or personal relationships]. Fortunately or unfortunately, the tendency to give 'benefit-of-doubt' is high in us humans, even when things are glaringly wrong.
Coming to the other perspectives you MAY need to consider in choosing the options open to you--at the EoD it's YOUR career & life. So any suggestion(s) given should be weighed FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE before implementing it/them.
1] You mentioned "..........They will start playing the nerve game...........". You would need to decide IF you have the penchant AND more importantly the time & energy to handle such mind games AT THIS point of time. This would depend on your OTHER priorities & aspects--like financial, emotional support @ home, family responsibilities, etc--since handling mind games surely would be taxing.
2] Next would be YOUR FOCUS at this point-of-time. Are you OK with the situation festering for a long time--sort of 'who blinks first' & ensuring that YOU DON'T blink first? The chances of such a situation effecting one's Interviews performances would be high--though it varies from individual to individual on the scale of effect.
3] The Third aspect relates to what you mentioned ".............as an organization they have huge resources.........". You haven't mentioned the size OR how well-known is this Company. You will be the Best judge on how the BCs will play-out later on. Had it been a small company, then there could be ways to circumvent assurely-bad BCs, when it comes to that.
Hope you get the point.
All the Best.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
Thanks TS, I agree with you. As mentioned in the first post.. I am not interested in the mind game. will resign as soon as get the new job... I am not interested in sevearance package or anything. But won't give in to the pressure tactics.
From India
From India
Hi,
I believe you have been given some thoughts to ponder from a self perspective point of view. As for your query - on options available -
a) Since you are in a managerial role, you will not be able to approach labour court. But you can use remedy in civil.
b) Your query on "Can they just take employee for ride" - well, a huge company will always have enough documentation they would have collected to support their claims, if they ever need to.
c) Yes they can terminate - but always remember - you need to decide for yourself whether you wish to maintain self respect in future opportunities. After all reference checks are the norm and a 'termination' in record may affect prospects. Or you can take it head on, in which case you may wish to give a thought to realities of life and work .
d) At the end of the day, one always has options available, depending on your age, responsibilities and to do justice to a Managerial role - If you need to leave; leave with your work profile intact, maybe you can negotiate with them to put down a two or three month notice, wherein they agree to give you Paid leave for those 2/3 months and still you get an experience letter, acceptance of resignation, etc.
My perspective is not to discourage you, but like the saying goes Pick your battle wisely. Its possible that you may find a better profile somewhere else. God bless!
Regards,
Deena Jagasia
From India, Mumbai
I believe you have been given some thoughts to ponder from a self perspective point of view. As for your query - on options available -
a) Since you are in a managerial role, you will not be able to approach labour court. But you can use remedy in civil.
b) Your query on "Can they just take employee for ride" - well, a huge company will always have enough documentation they would have collected to support their claims, if they ever need to.
c) Yes they can terminate - but always remember - you need to decide for yourself whether you wish to maintain self respect in future opportunities. After all reference checks are the norm and a 'termination' in record may affect prospects. Or you can take it head on, in which case you may wish to give a thought to realities of life and work .
d) At the end of the day, one always has options available, depending on your age, responsibilities and to do justice to a Managerial role - If you need to leave; leave with your work profile intact, maybe you can negotiate with them to put down a two or three month notice, wherein they agree to give you Paid leave for those 2/3 months and still you get an experience letter, acceptance of resignation, etc.
My perspective is not to discourage you, but like the saying goes Pick your battle wisely. Its possible that you may find a better profile somewhere else. God bless!
Regards,
Deena Jagasia
From India, Mumbai
Thanks Deena,
I doubt if they have documents to prove anything.. Since its huge organization hence left hand doesn't know what right hand is doing. Moreover because of size, they are not able to manage people and are taking easy route to reduce cost. If they have a huge cost associated with termination then only they will be able to think rationally. As i said they recruit in mass with no visibility of project... and then blame these people only if they dont get project. But anyways that is one perspective.
My interim appraisal comments are good... I myself is trying to get the project etc.
>> Yes they can terminate - but always remember - you need to decide for yourself whether you wish to
>>maintain self respect in future opportunities. After all reference checks are the norm and a 'termination'
>>in record may affect prospects. Or you can take it head on, in which case you may wish to give a thought
>> to realities of life and work .
This is where all the play is.. organization is creating fear in the mind and trying to reduce the cost. IT doesn't have unions and its easy to isolate and target. Unions have ugly sides also but positive effect also. Same organization treat people in Europe differently because there laws are different.
Anyways I got what you are trying to say. Thanks.
From India
I doubt if they have documents to prove anything.. Since its huge organization hence left hand doesn't know what right hand is doing. Moreover because of size, they are not able to manage people and are taking easy route to reduce cost. If they have a huge cost associated with termination then only they will be able to think rationally. As i said they recruit in mass with no visibility of project... and then blame these people only if they dont get project. But anyways that is one perspective.
My interim appraisal comments are good... I myself is trying to get the project etc.
>> Yes they can terminate - but always remember - you need to decide for yourself whether you wish to
>>maintain self respect in future opportunities. After all reference checks are the norm and a 'termination'
>>in record may affect prospects. Or you can take it head on, in which case you may wish to give a thought
>> to realities of life and work .
This is where all the play is.. organization is creating fear in the mind and trying to reduce the cost. IT doesn't have unions and its easy to isolate and target. Unions have ugly sides also but positive effect also. Same organization treat people in Europe differently because there laws are different.
Anyways I got what you are trying to say. Thanks.
From India
Dear friend,
In my previous post, I wrote about becoming "indispensable". On this, your reply was "@Dinesh : I slightly disagree with you and somehow not comfortable with Management thoughts on ways to show yourself "indispensible". There are people who do this and for me most of them are political... try to find ways to blame someone for which they have to be the owner. Anyways i understand what you meant by "indispesible".
I never meant to become "indispensable" by ingratiation or obsequiousness. A person becomes indispensable when he/she becomes reference person not only in his/her area of activity but in other activities also. As he/she accumulates wealth of experience, he/she builds institution within him or her. Junior or senior, everybody starts feeling comfortable in seeking advice from this person. This type of level is acquired with lot of difficulty. To do this, one has to assiduously upgrade one's knowledge, be au courant with the current practices in the industry, keep an eye on the competitors and so on.
In contrast, there are many persons, who just try to grow linearly. Beyond one single area they may not know much. These type of persons become "dispensable".
Hope I have tried to bring clarity on being "indispensable".
@ Sateesh: Thanks for pointing out the gap in what I wrote in my previous post and what the poster had understood.
Thanks,
DVD
From India, Bangalore
In my previous post, I wrote about becoming "indispensable". On this, your reply was "@Dinesh : I slightly disagree with you and somehow not comfortable with Management thoughts on ways to show yourself "indispensible". There are people who do this and for me most of them are political... try to find ways to blame someone for which they have to be the owner. Anyways i understand what you meant by "indispesible".
I never meant to become "indispensable" by ingratiation or obsequiousness. A person becomes indispensable when he/she becomes reference person not only in his/her area of activity but in other activities also. As he/she accumulates wealth of experience, he/she builds institution within him or her. Junior or senior, everybody starts feeling comfortable in seeking advice from this person. This type of level is acquired with lot of difficulty. To do this, one has to assiduously upgrade one's knowledge, be au courant with the current practices in the industry, keep an eye on the competitors and so on.
In contrast, there are many persons, who just try to grow linearly. Beyond one single area they may not know much. These type of persons become "dispensable".
Hope I have tried to bring clarity on being "indispensable".
@ Sateesh: Thanks for pointing out the gap in what I wrote in my previous post and what the poster had understood.
Thanks,
DVD
From India, Bangalore
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