What are the consequences if we hire a person who did not got the reliving letter from previous employer.
We do not know he is in leave from his previous employer for the period he is working with us.
From India, Bangalore
We do not know he is in leave from his previous employer for the period he is working with us.
From India, Bangalore
What are the consequences if we hire a person who did not got the reliving letter from previous employer. - Possibilities
1) He might have done any misappropration of previous Company's Asset / Property.
2) He might have done criminal offence with previous employer.
3) Me might of any loan / debt from previous employer
4) He might have absconded from his duties / services.
5) He might have taken leave to join & check your company & willing to resume his prevous company if he could not like your company cultere, job profile, etc.
From India, Pune
4671) He might have done any misappropration of previous Company's Asset / Property.
2) He might have done criminal offence with previous employer.
3) Me might of any loan / debt from previous employer
4) He might have absconded from his duties / services.
5) He might have taken leave to join & check your company & willing to resume his prevous company if he could not like your company cultere, job profile, etc.
From India, Pune
Dear Veereshmathad
While appreciating the input from Prashant, which gives the standard HR reply/reasons; time has come for us to think beyond, what we have learned or what we have been doing so far.
In spite of having come to accept the "Hire and Fire" concept in employment, which is in favour of the employers; we are still stuck with the British legacy of government services and documents such as Relieving Letter etc; which has no bearing in terms of "Hire and Fire" philosophy.
There is no law that says that you have to accept a Relieving Letter from the previous Company before hiring a person. If there is such a Law, I would like to be enlightened on this aspect.
To answer the question; what if the person has committed some Frauds, Theft etc with the previous company.
We, as a country, have a very sound and fair Legal System and Law Enforcement System; that is supposed to take care of such things.
An employer is neither a Judge nor a Policeman.
Also, no Law will punish an employer as an accomplice, in case an ex-employee has done anything wrong in his earler company.
Its high time that we, as HR professional, act more professionally and cut down the Replacement time; rather than be a "Laqeer ke Fakir" (Hindi. adj. meaning One who only walks the beaten track).
However, for those faint-hearted; as a safety measure (?) one can take a declaration from the employee about his resignation; to make it more strong - in the form of an affidavit; or to go even beyond it - an Indemnity Bond on non-judicial stamp paper of appropriate value !!
Note : The above opinion pertains to companies in private sector only.
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
While appreciating the input from Prashant, which gives the standard HR reply/reasons; time has come for us to think beyond, what we have learned or what we have been doing so far.
In spite of having come to accept the "Hire and Fire" concept in employment, which is in favour of the employers; we are still stuck with the British legacy of government services and documents such as Relieving Letter etc; which has no bearing in terms of "Hire and Fire" philosophy.
There is no law that says that you have to accept a Relieving Letter from the previous Company before hiring a person. If there is such a Law, I would like to be enlightened on this aspect.
To answer the question; what if the person has committed some Frauds, Theft etc with the previous company.
We, as a country, have a very sound and fair Legal System and Law Enforcement System; that is supposed to take care of such things.
An employer is neither a Judge nor a Policeman.
Also, no Law will punish an employer as an accomplice, in case an ex-employee has done anything wrong in his earler company.
Its high time that we, as HR professional, act more professionally and cut down the Replacement time; rather than be a "Laqeer ke Fakir" (Hindi. adj. meaning One who only walks the beaten track).
However, for those faint-hearted; as a safety measure (?) one can take a declaration from the employee about his resignation; to make it more strong - in the form of an affidavit; or to go even beyond it - an Indemnity Bond on non-judicial stamp paper of appropriate value !!
Note : The above opinion pertains to companies in private sector only.
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
Dear All,
I may add to above discussion that as have come many times before the forum that sometimes management do injustice with the employees(whether true or false even without proving), in that circumstances should we leave a person who might be mile-stone to the new venture.
It is, therefore suggested that antecedents of the new joiner may be got verified or as elaborated above, an affidavit may be obtained(having clause in it that if at any stage during his tenure with this company, if any statement is found wrong/false, management will be competent to dispense with his services without notice or enquiry)
Thanks
V K Gupta
From India, Panipat
I may add to above discussion that as have come many times before the forum that sometimes management do injustice with the employees(whether true or false even without proving), in that circumstances should we leave a person who might be mile-stone to the new venture.
It is, therefore suggested that antecedents of the new joiner may be got verified or as elaborated above, an affidavit may be obtained(having clause in it that if at any stage during his tenure with this company, if any statement is found wrong/false, management will be competent to dispense with his services without notice or enquiry)
Thanks
V K Gupta
From India, Panipat
I would like to add my view.
In many cases I have seen that employer harass departing employees like nonpayment of F&F dues, not issuing service letter and relieving or clearance letter.
If you are hiring a permanent employee that take a declaration that the does not hold an employment in any other organization. I believe this is enough and now day employers do background verification of new employees. If there is any issues employer knows and can take appropriate action.
We need to change our views rather working in old manner that employer is always right.
From India, Bhubaneswar
In many cases I have seen that employer harass departing employees like nonpayment of F&F dues, not issuing service letter and relieving or clearance letter.
If you are hiring a permanent employee that take a declaration that the does not hold an employment in any other organization. I believe this is enough and now day employers do background verification of new employees. If there is any issues employer knows and can take appropriate action.
We need to change our views rather working in old manner that employer is always right.
From India, Bhubaneswar
Hello Veereshmathad,
Further to what Raj Kumar mentioned about the options available to you--as HR--pl also confirm the version of the prospective employee about the reason(s) for not being able to submit the Docs. Usually such aspects can be judged during the F2F Interviews, by the body language [whether the guy is faking any reasons or telling the Truth].
Also, there are ways of checking out IF a particular company harasses it's employees for the F&F Docs. Just cross-check & make a decision--going by what Raj Kumar suggested. A Sworn Affidavit is now an accepted Method for such situations--have seen it across industries.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
Further to what Raj Kumar mentioned about the options available to you--as HR--pl also confirm the version of the prospective employee about the reason(s) for not being able to submit the Docs. Usually such aspects can be judged during the F2F Interviews, by the body language [whether the guy is faking any reasons or telling the Truth].
Also, there are ways of checking out IF a particular company harasses it's employees for the F&F Docs. Just cross-check & make a decision--going by what Raj Kumar suggested. A Sworn Affidavit is now an accepted Method for such situations--have seen it across industries.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
Dear All
I resigned from my job on 4th Aug,2013 (one month notice given on 4th July) as my husband got posted out to some other place. On 8th July, I was asked to submit the company assets, (without which I could not have done any service as this was a field job). Our head office is in Gurgaon and I requested the admin officer to book a ticket for me to submit the assets personally. He booked the ticket for 19 July. During these days I did not visit my field as I was under impression that since I am asked to submit the assets, I am already out of company. But on 16 July, I was asked by my immediate boss that why I am not visiting my field. I told him that since I was already told to submit assets, I thought I should not be visiting field. When he showed his ignorance, I informed him that he was also CCed in that mail, and should not pose that he does not know about it. As instructed by him, I started visiting my field on 17 July onwards and worked till 31 July.
Now when I am asking for my Full and final, I am being asked to collect advance payments from our clients. None of our clients is ready to give advance as they know that I have left the job and they are not sure about the new person who will be visiting in my place. They had given advance payments in the past because of my good work. My company says that if I don't get the money, they will not clear my full and final. Now in this case what should I do? If I go to labour court, I will not be given any relieving certificate or experience certificate. Otherwise also, I don't see anything positive happening in my company as most of the employees have either quit or have been asked to quit in the last 3-4 months and are still waiting for their F and F.
Now please tell me that if I am not having any experience certificate/ relieving letter from this company, does that mean that I have
**done any misappropration of previous Company's Asset / Property.
**done criminal offence with previous employer.
** taken any loan / debt from previous employer
** absconding from duties / services.
** taken leave to join & check new company
Kindly help me out on what best can I do to get my F and F (which includes 3 months (May June and July) reimbursement, July salary : the total goes to around 70,000/-). Also how can I get my PF withdrawn if my boss does not sign the withdrawal form.
From India, Haryana
I resigned from my job on 4th Aug,2013 (one month notice given on 4th July) as my husband got posted out to some other place. On 8th July, I was asked to submit the company assets, (without which I could not have done any service as this was a field job). Our head office is in Gurgaon and I requested the admin officer to book a ticket for me to submit the assets personally. He booked the ticket for 19 July. During these days I did not visit my field as I was under impression that since I am asked to submit the assets, I am already out of company. But on 16 July, I was asked by my immediate boss that why I am not visiting my field. I told him that since I was already told to submit assets, I thought I should not be visiting field. When he showed his ignorance, I informed him that he was also CCed in that mail, and should not pose that he does not know about it. As instructed by him, I started visiting my field on 17 July onwards and worked till 31 July.
Now when I am asking for my Full and final, I am being asked to collect advance payments from our clients. None of our clients is ready to give advance as they know that I have left the job and they are not sure about the new person who will be visiting in my place. They had given advance payments in the past because of my good work. My company says that if I don't get the money, they will not clear my full and final. Now in this case what should I do? If I go to labour court, I will not be given any relieving certificate or experience certificate. Otherwise also, I don't see anything positive happening in my company as most of the employees have either quit or have been asked to quit in the last 3-4 months and are still waiting for their F and F.
Now please tell me that if I am not having any experience certificate/ relieving letter from this company, does that mean that I have
**done any misappropration of previous Company's Asset / Property.
**done criminal offence with previous employer.
** taken any loan / debt from previous employer
** absconding from duties / services.
** taken leave to join & check new company
Kindly help me out on what best can I do to get my F and F (which includes 3 months (May June and July) reimbursement, July salary : the total goes to around 70,000/-). Also how can I get my PF withdrawn if my boss does not sign the withdrawal form.
From India, Haryana
Dear Anonymous
I understand your problem and empathise with your predicament.
The reasons cited; viz.
"..... Now please tell me that if I am not having any experience certificate/ relieving letter from this company, does that mean that I have
**done any misappropration of previous Company's Asset / Property.
**done criminal offence with previous employer.
** taken any loan / debt from previous employer
** absconding from duties / services.
** taken leave to join & check new company"
are exactly that cited by any HR for producing relieving letter.
Although every practising HR worth his salt knows that these reasons are only in theory and rarely seen in practice. After being in contact with thousands of candidates; I have come across only a few who belonged to the last category, but then checking a new company out before committing oneself, is not a serious crime.
This, quite often, is built into the procedures, which again are legacy systems.
Being aware of how companies are working these days when the matter regarding an employee trying to leave the company comes up; which again are formulated by HRs of companies who are too subservient either due to fear or greed; or lack of expertise or keeping up with times. The idea is to make an example of the employee quitting, so as to pose an effective shield against attrition.
Such practices are despicable, not only because they are against the spirit of progressive HRM, but also make HR appear ridiculous and redundant; as these portrays HR as dogmatic, static and rooted to systems and procedures which are counter-productive. HR should always be pragmatic and dynamic and keep its practices abreast with the times.
As we have already discussed earlier, why a relieving letter is an un-necessary document that only brings in in-efficiency and delays. Why should the placement or induction of a new employee depend on the inefficiency and bad attitude of the previous organization.
There are several perfectly acceptable alternatives to Relieving Letter which a good contemporary company should be perfectly willing to accept. A prospective employee should not be penalized, nor a Company be put on hold, just because the ex-employers are inefficient, vengeful or lack concern for its employees.
Hope that, although this does not provide any specific solution for your problem, will still comfort you.
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
I understand your problem and empathise with your predicament.
The reasons cited; viz.
"..... Now please tell me that if I am not having any experience certificate/ relieving letter from this company, does that mean that I have
**done any misappropration of previous Company's Asset / Property.
**done criminal offence with previous employer.
** taken any loan / debt from previous employer
** absconding from duties / services.
** taken leave to join & check new company"
are exactly that cited by any HR for producing relieving letter.
Although every practising HR worth his salt knows that these reasons are only in theory and rarely seen in practice. After being in contact with thousands of candidates; I have come across only a few who belonged to the last category, but then checking a new company out before committing oneself, is not a serious crime.
This, quite often, is built into the procedures, which again are legacy systems.
Being aware of how companies are working these days when the matter regarding an employee trying to leave the company comes up; which again are formulated by HRs of companies who are too subservient either due to fear or greed; or lack of expertise or keeping up with times. The idea is to make an example of the employee quitting, so as to pose an effective shield against attrition.
Such practices are despicable, not only because they are against the spirit of progressive HRM, but also make HR appear ridiculous and redundant; as these portrays HR as dogmatic, static and rooted to systems and procedures which are counter-productive. HR should always be pragmatic and dynamic and keep its practices abreast with the times.
As we have already discussed earlier, why a relieving letter is an un-necessary document that only brings in in-efficiency and delays. Why should the placement or induction of a new employee depend on the inefficiency and bad attitude of the previous organization.
There are several perfectly acceptable alternatives to Relieving Letter which a good contemporary company should be perfectly willing to accept. A prospective employee should not be penalized, nor a Company be put on hold, just because the ex-employers are inefficient, vengeful or lack concern for its employees.
Hope that, although this does not provide any specific solution for your problem, will still comfort you.
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
Dear all,
Since my entire service was with the state govt, ofcourse which was my own choice though I belong to the erstwhile new breed of management graduates of 1970s, I was quite unfortunate of being deprived of the chances of changing employments at will as well as analysing the profiles of such fleeting birds. However, the first glimpse of the various answers posted to the query by Veereshmathad gives me a spontaneous urge to participate despite my lack of professional experience in this regard.My only counter question is to the Questioner himself. Why do you prefer such an experienced person for the job? Other things remaining the same, if experience is the deciding criterion, I am not able to understand why such a botheration about a formal relieving orders from the previous employer when it is known that during his authorised leave period the individual accepted your offer of employment and joined your services.In this regard, I would say that Prashanth has generalised the issue and pointed out the reasons quite academically.Rajkumar, as a seasoned HR man, has in deed made some soul-research and come out with certain pre-emptive sugesstions.M/s Gupta, Abedeen and Tajsateesh have either elaborated or complemented his views.However, the tell-tale episode of 'anonymous' adds piquence to the discussion.Her resignation is of course due to some personal reasons. But it can be easily inferred that her lamentation is not just for the terminal monetary things and something more like future employment based on her previous experience which is neither unrealistic nor unjustified.It is discernible that after the advent of globalisation there is a remarkable shift in employee loyalty - loyalty to the organisation has shifted to loyalty to profession. So, things like head-hunting and increased rate of attrition based on job-dissatisfaction would be on the increase.
From India, Salem
Since my entire service was with the state govt, ofcourse which was my own choice though I belong to the erstwhile new breed of management graduates of 1970s, I was quite unfortunate of being deprived of the chances of changing employments at will as well as analysing the profiles of such fleeting birds. However, the first glimpse of the various answers posted to the query by Veereshmathad gives me a spontaneous urge to participate despite my lack of professional experience in this regard.My only counter question is to the Questioner himself. Why do you prefer such an experienced person for the job? Other things remaining the same, if experience is the deciding criterion, I am not able to understand why such a botheration about a formal relieving orders from the previous employer when it is known that during his authorised leave period the individual accepted your offer of employment and joined your services.In this regard, I would say that Prashanth has generalised the issue and pointed out the reasons quite academically.Rajkumar, as a seasoned HR man, has in deed made some soul-research and come out with certain pre-emptive sugesstions.M/s Gupta, Abedeen and Tajsateesh have either elaborated or complemented his views.However, the tell-tale episode of 'anonymous' adds piquence to the discussion.Her resignation is of course due to some personal reasons. But it can be easily inferred that her lamentation is not just for the terminal monetary things and something more like future employment based on her previous experience which is neither unrealistic nor unjustified.It is discernible that after the advent of globalisation there is a remarkable shift in employee loyalty - loyalty to the organisation has shifted to loyalty to profession. So, things like head-hunting and increased rate of attrition based on job-dissatisfaction would be on the increase.
From India, Salem
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Reliving+Experi ence Letter.doc