Dear Seniors
I have a query. May be this is going to be a long post but please forgive me but I thought before getting a proper guidance from you I must explain the whole scenario.
I have almost 8 years of experience in Sales. Recently on 9th November I joined a company part of a Media conglomerate (One of the biggest Globally) as a Sales Manager. Before joining and post selection they sent me an offer letter which I signed and send back to them. In this offer letter no EXIT CLAUSE was mentioned, however it was mentioned that at the time of joining detailed appointment letter will be given with terms and conditions of the job. So I joined on 9th November, singed joining documents and completed the formalities. But no appointment letter was given, so eventually I signed no appointment letter. After working for 7 days I came to understand that this is not exactly the profile I'm looking forward to work on. So after 7 days of working I called up HR and explained him the entire scenario. And after having discussion with him I resigned with immediate effect. I sent a resignation mail from my official mail id and make a copy of that for future reference. Nobody replied me back, no call, no whatsapp, no ph nothing was there post this incident. After a few days some other HR person sent me a mail asking me to send him some documents for full and final settlement. And these documents include some documents related to pf transfer, pension claim, no due certificate and all. I failed to understand when I have not even received a single salary what purpose does it serve sending me pension form and pf form. So I haven't replied him back. Post that mail he had already sent me two other reminders and asked me to submit those documents so as to complete the full and final settlement as early as possible. I have not replied back yet.
But I have not signed any appointment letter, I have not signed any document which has 'exit clause' mentioned. I worked for 7 days. I didn't have any company belongings. So as par me neither the company owes me anything nor do I. So what's this full and final settlement in this case?
Should I reply back to his mail or I should just ignore those emails? If I reply back what should be my reply, please suggest.
Meanwhile I have got another opportunity in an organization and it's the same field/industry where I have worked earlier and I'm joining on 5th December. But they know nothing about this short stint. I haven't shared with them anything about this 7 days' experience and this job. Is there any possibility that my would be employer will come to know about this incident in future?
But most importantly I have an unblemished career through out my life. I have all documents and every original details and credentials. I still have very very good relationships with my previous employers where I had worked for 8 years (2 employers/MNCs to be specific). So I want this issue to be sorted out amicably so that my would be employer know nothing about this and I will not show this 7 days's experience anywhere in my career.
I'm in a kind of confusion, I hope you must have understood that by now. Requesting the experienced HRs present in this community to guide me so that I resolve this issue immediately.
BR
Anirban
From India, Kolkata
I have a query. May be this is going to be a long post but please forgive me but I thought before getting a proper guidance from you I must explain the whole scenario.
I have almost 8 years of experience in Sales. Recently on 9th November I joined a company part of a Media conglomerate (One of the biggest Globally) as a Sales Manager. Before joining and post selection they sent me an offer letter which I signed and send back to them. In this offer letter no EXIT CLAUSE was mentioned, however it was mentioned that at the time of joining detailed appointment letter will be given with terms and conditions of the job. So I joined on 9th November, singed joining documents and completed the formalities. But no appointment letter was given, so eventually I signed no appointment letter. After working for 7 days I came to understand that this is not exactly the profile I'm looking forward to work on. So after 7 days of working I called up HR and explained him the entire scenario. And after having discussion with him I resigned with immediate effect. I sent a resignation mail from my official mail id and make a copy of that for future reference. Nobody replied me back, no call, no whatsapp, no ph nothing was there post this incident. After a few days some other HR person sent me a mail asking me to send him some documents for full and final settlement. And these documents include some documents related to pf transfer, pension claim, no due certificate and all. I failed to understand when I have not even received a single salary what purpose does it serve sending me pension form and pf form. So I haven't replied him back. Post that mail he had already sent me two other reminders and asked me to submit those documents so as to complete the full and final settlement as early as possible. I have not replied back yet.
But I have not signed any appointment letter, I have not signed any document which has 'exit clause' mentioned. I worked for 7 days. I didn't have any company belongings. So as par me neither the company owes me anything nor do I. So what's this full and final settlement in this case?
Should I reply back to his mail or I should just ignore those emails? If I reply back what should be my reply, please suggest.
Meanwhile I have got another opportunity in an organization and it's the same field/industry where I have worked earlier and I'm joining on 5th December. But they know nothing about this short stint. I haven't shared with them anything about this 7 days' experience and this job. Is there any possibility that my would be employer will come to know about this incident in future?
But most importantly I have an unblemished career through out my life. I have all documents and every original details and credentials. I still have very very good relationships with my previous employers where I had worked for 8 years (2 employers/MNCs to be specific). So I want this issue to be sorted out amicably so that my would be employer know nothing about this and I will not show this 7 days's experience anywhere in my career.
I'm in a kind of confusion, I hope you must have understood that by now. Requesting the experienced HRs present in this community to guide me so that I resolve this issue immediately.
BR
Anirban
From India, Kolkata
Just walk across to the HR guy who sent you these mails and speak to him about your predicament. This will sort out any queries you have. Am sure he will understand and guide you appropriately.
From Indonesia, Jakarta
8From Indonesia, Jakarta
Dear Mr. Anirban Basu,
Greetings ......
My reply to your queries my reply goes as below:
1. You mentioned that you worked for the company for 7 days before submitting your resignation. It is understood that you have not been paid any salary but logical thinking justifies you sure have accrued some earning (for 7 days) that would be paid to you as Full & Final settlement of dues and is subject to deduction of PF. In this context if you have not joined any other organisation, you may wright a letter or send a mail to the HR who sent you the PF Transfer Form that once you join other organisation the Form duly filled and signed would be submitted through the concerned department of "New Organisation".
2. Regarding Pension, you are to get a "Scheme Certificate" for which an application is to be submitted. So, please fill-up and send as advised.
3. "No Due Certificate" too is a must for making F&F payment.
Regards,
From India, Pune
Greetings ......
My reply to your queries my reply goes as below:
1. You mentioned that you worked for the company for 7 days before submitting your resignation. It is understood that you have not been paid any salary but logical thinking justifies you sure have accrued some earning (for 7 days) that would be paid to you as Full & Final settlement of dues and is subject to deduction of PF. In this context if you have not joined any other organisation, you may wright a letter or send a mail to the HR who sent you the PF Transfer Form that once you join other organisation the Form duly filled and signed would be submitted through the concerned department of "New Organisation".
2. Regarding Pension, you are to get a "Scheme Certificate" for which an application is to be submitted. So, please fill-up and send as advised.
3. "No Due Certificate" too is a must for making F&F payment.
Regards,
From India, Pune
Dear Anirban,
Since you were not issued with Appointment Letter, legal employer-employee relationship has not been established. However, as you have worked for seven days, technically that company is bound to pay your wages and deduct PF for those days. That is why they are asking to fill the form and complete the due process.
However, signing the documents could be a ploy to show that you had worked for seven days and the company could put you in trouble. Therefore, you may give a call to that HR person stating that you have confirmed from the senior professionals of very prominent HR forum and they have told that it is possible to do the full and final settlement even without generating PF code. That company can show you as temporary employee or casual employee and pay the dues. No PF will be required to be deducted in such a case. Only ESI is required to be paid. However, that will be their internal matter and they can do it without your intervention. Do not do any correspondence. This will enhance proof of your employment with them.
As such you are getting a new employment. No need to disclose about your seven days work in this company. Be cautious forever, do not lower you guard any time in future and reveal about this smallest stint.
For Anonymous: - Anirban is not in predicament of any kind therefore, no personal visit is required to be made. Please note that while giving professional advice, choice of our words is very important.
For Soumitra Sengupta: - You are walking on a dotted legal line. In practical life, you need to see the convenience and close the matter. In fact that HR Head could have taken this decision in his summary power on how to close this issue. There was no need to send 2-3 mails for filling up of PF forms. Filling PF forms could bring other problems in its wake. Company could start asking notice period pay. It is better to avoid these hassles.
Thanks,
Dinesh Divekar
From India, Bangalore
Since you were not issued with Appointment Letter, legal employer-employee relationship has not been established. However, as you have worked for seven days, technically that company is bound to pay your wages and deduct PF for those days. That is why they are asking to fill the form and complete the due process.
However, signing the documents could be a ploy to show that you had worked for seven days and the company could put you in trouble. Therefore, you may give a call to that HR person stating that you have confirmed from the senior professionals of very prominent HR forum and they have told that it is possible to do the full and final settlement even without generating PF code. That company can show you as temporary employee or casual employee and pay the dues. No PF will be required to be deducted in such a case. Only ESI is required to be paid. However, that will be their internal matter and they can do it without your intervention. Do not do any correspondence. This will enhance proof of your employment with them.
As such you are getting a new employment. No need to disclose about your seven days work in this company. Be cautious forever, do not lower you guard any time in future and reveal about this smallest stint.
For Anonymous: - Anirban is not in predicament of any kind therefore, no personal visit is required to be made. Please note that while giving professional advice, choice of our words is very important.
For Soumitra Sengupta: - You are walking on a dotted legal line. In practical life, you need to see the convenience and close the matter. In fact that HR Head could have taken this decision in his summary power on how to close this issue. There was no need to send 2-3 mails for filling up of PF forms. Filling PF forms could bring other problems in its wake. Company could start asking notice period pay. It is better to avoid these hassles.
Thanks,
Dinesh Divekar
From India, Bangalore
Thank you Mr. Sengupta for your suggestions.
But there are some problems in regards to the suggestions that you ave posted in my case.
1. As far as the PF form is concerned I can't claim it even after joining the new organization because in this case I have to show this experience to my new employer which I couldn't.
2. Pension Scheme certificate can be sent to the concerned HR person as advised by you.
3. I don't have no due certificate and I can't go back to their office to get a no due certificate signed from every respective department.
My basic intent is I don't want them to give me any accrued salary or anything as FnF settlement. I just want to close this chapter. That's why after working for 7 days I called up HR, had a discussion and then subsequently resigned and I thought the matter was close there only.
Can there be any problem if I don't reply to these emails at all or if I don't want them to make a FnF settlement. Yes, they may terminate me for not getting properly relieved I guess but any which ways I'm not going to show this experience any where.
My only concern is they can easily trace my new employer details using my PF UAN no and will they going to contact them and tell them about this incident?
Please understand I just want this issue to be settled down. I don't want anything from them. I just hope they will not contact my future employer and tell them about this incident. Can you please tell me whether the possibility to happen this thing which I have mentioned is highly likely or unlikely.
By the Way there are some mandatory columns in No due certificate and Exit feedback link like SAP Id and all. And before receiving a SAP ID I had left the organization, so there is no way I can fill up those forms online even if I want to.
Awaiting your valuable response on the same.
From India, Kolkata
But there are some problems in regards to the suggestions that you ave posted in my case.
1. As far as the PF form is concerned I can't claim it even after joining the new organization because in this case I have to show this experience to my new employer which I couldn't.
2. Pension Scheme certificate can be sent to the concerned HR person as advised by you.
3. I don't have no due certificate and I can't go back to their office to get a no due certificate signed from every respective department.
My basic intent is I don't want them to give me any accrued salary or anything as FnF settlement. I just want to close this chapter. That's why after working for 7 days I called up HR, had a discussion and then subsequently resigned and I thought the matter was close there only.
Can there be any problem if I don't reply to these emails at all or if I don't want them to make a FnF settlement. Yes, they may terminate me for not getting properly relieved I guess but any which ways I'm not going to show this experience any where.
My only concern is they can easily trace my new employer details using my PF UAN no and will they going to contact them and tell them about this incident?
Please understand I just want this issue to be settled down. I don't want anything from them. I just hope they will not contact my future employer and tell them about this incident. Can you please tell me whether the possibility to happen this thing which I have mentioned is highly likely or unlikely.
By the Way there are some mandatory columns in No due certificate and Exit feedback link like SAP Id and all. And before receiving a SAP ID I had left the organization, so there is no way I can fill up those forms online even if I want to.
Awaiting your valuable response on the same.
From India, Kolkata
Dinesh Sir- I have been an avid follower of your suggestions and posts in this community for years. And it is an honor that I got a reply out of your sheer expertise on my thread. And last but not the least Thank you very much for your advice.
On the tune to the subject I was having a discussion over ph with one of my very good college friends today morning who now works as a HR Manager in Mumbai in an MNC and before that he also was a Lawyer.
He also suggested me exactly the same way you did. He told me that just wait and watch, don't give any reply in writing.
Thank you once again.
From India, Kolkata
On the tune to the subject I was having a discussion over ph with one of my very good college friends today morning who now works as a HR Manager in Mumbai in an MNC and before that he also was a Lawyer.
He also suggested me exactly the same way you did. He told me that just wait and watch, don't give any reply in writing.
Thank you once again.
From India, Kolkata
Dear Mr. Dinesh Divekar,
Is it good to doubt Company intentions always? I feel one should think straight and look for solutions. Any interview process has some cost element attached and leaving an Organisation just after joining brings more losses to the Organisation (added is 7 days salary to the Cost of Interview). But since we here and also the Legal System in our country is PRO-LABOUR (employee), our thinking & decisions do always favour Employees. I don't suggest all to be, but I favour a logical thinking and try to explain phenomena in the light of that.
With due regards,
From India, Pune
Is it good to doubt Company intentions always? I feel one should think straight and look for solutions. Any interview process has some cost element attached and leaving an Organisation just after joining brings more losses to the Organisation (added is 7 days salary to the Cost of Interview). But since we here and also the Legal System in our country is PRO-LABOUR (employee), our thinking & decisions do always favour Employees. I don't suggest all to be, but I favour a logical thinking and try to explain phenomena in the light of that.
With due regards,
From India, Pune
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