Dear Asha,
I appreciate your sentiments about India and about being an Indian. I feel the same way about India.
However, if we need to improve as a nation, we need to look at our weak points, accept our shortcomings, and work on improving them. We need to introspect and be critical of ourselves. We should not be content with the flaws we see but instead have the desire to address and rectify them. Patriotism is important, but it should not lack depth.
In general, as a nation, we are overly tolerant, too quick to accept, and too quick to adapt. A notable example is terrorism. It often takes a tragic event like 26/11 for us to take action. We must remember the power of protesting and raising our voices. Only a few thousand Mumbaikars managed to bring down the Home Minister and others. This highlights the impact of speaking out.
We must raise our voices more frequently and stop tolerating injustice, corruption, and exploitation everywhere. I can only expect others to act if I take action myself.
Let's strive to create a more ethical and honest business environment. This is my goal. Such protests are a small part of our efforts to cultivate a business society based on honesty and ethics.
Good HR Associates
From India, Chandigarh
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4I appreciate your sentiments about India and about being an Indian. I feel the same way about India.
However, if we need to improve as a nation, we need to look at our weak points, accept our shortcomings, and work on improving them. We need to introspect and be critical of ourselves. We should not be content with the flaws we see but instead have the desire to address and rectify them. Patriotism is important, but it should not lack depth.
In general, as a nation, we are overly tolerant, too quick to accept, and too quick to adapt. A notable example is terrorism. It often takes a tragic event like 26/11 for us to take action. We must remember the power of protesting and raising our voices. Only a few thousand Mumbaikars managed to bring down the Home Minister and others. This highlights the impact of speaking out.
We must raise our voices more frequently and stop tolerating injustice, corruption, and exploitation everywhere. I can only expect others to act if I take action myself.
Let's strive to create a more ethical and honest business environment. This is my goal. Such protests are a small part of our efforts to cultivate a business society based on honesty and ethics.
Good HR Associates
From India, Chandigarh
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Hi Swastik,
If they are being loyal to their companies by cheating others, that should not be tolerated or accepted. Here loyalty is not a virtue but makes them an accomplice in bad HR practices, fraud, deceit, and cheating. Would anyone like to be known as a "Loyal Thief"? Yes, but only in his own gang of thieves. Terrorists are also loyal to their outfits. Should we tolerate them because they are "loyal"?
We need to see in what context they are loyal. If I pay you to steal, will you do it? It is a question of ethics, following corrupt practices, and cheating. A cheat is a cheat is a cheat, however loyal.
Good HR Associates
From India, Chandigarh
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If they are being loyal to their companies by cheating others, that should not be tolerated or accepted. Here loyalty is not a virtue but makes them an accomplice in bad HR practices, fraud, deceit, and cheating. Would anyone like to be known as a "Loyal Thief"? Yes, but only in his own gang of thieves. Terrorists are also loyal to their outfits. Should we tolerate them because they are "loyal"?
We need to see in what context they are loyal. If I pay you to steal, will you do it? It is a question of ethics, following corrupt practices, and cheating. A cheat is a cheat is a cheat, however loyal.
Good HR Associates
From India, Chandigarh
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Hi All,
I disagree about the views posted "The Position is on Hold!" - Are you cheating Mr. Manager?
It is sensible enough that the corporates think twice before allocating the position to consultants. It's fair enough that they require paying a handsome amount towards recruitment. I certainly do not deny the efforts of consultants.
The positions are put on hold due to a variety of reasons not necessarily with an intent to cheat the consultant. It is sometimes done to wait until the approval of the clients, to choose between the shortlisted candidates, etc.
All of us have to agree that the number of selected candidates is not equal to the joiners. The ratio is at the maximum 60-70% depending on the industry. HR professionals always have to keep this in mind while allocating the open positions. That, according to me, is practicality.
I think you are taking the darker side of things. A very pessimistic view.
"There are always two sides of a coin... it's up to you to choose from."
Moreover, you are entirely generalizing it. HR is HR, consultant, or corporate, wondering why so much argument on this anyways. As discussed earlier, both have their positives and negatives though.
Though I am not aware of the reason for your frustration, I still insist you cannot blame others. Decisions in the company are not based on a single point of view but a series of people.
As far as the question of competency is concerned, all of us have our weaknesses and strengths whether working for a consultant or a corporate.
Regards,
Divya
From India, Madras
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I disagree about the views posted "The Position is on Hold!" - Are you cheating Mr. Manager?
It is sensible enough that the corporates think twice before allocating the position to consultants. It's fair enough that they require paying a handsome amount towards recruitment. I certainly do not deny the efforts of consultants.
The positions are put on hold due to a variety of reasons not necessarily with an intent to cheat the consultant. It is sometimes done to wait until the approval of the clients, to choose between the shortlisted candidates, etc.
All of us have to agree that the number of selected candidates is not equal to the joiners. The ratio is at the maximum 60-70% depending on the industry. HR professionals always have to keep this in mind while allocating the open positions. That, according to me, is practicality.
I think you are taking the darker side of things. A very pessimistic view.
"There are always two sides of a coin... it's up to you to choose from."
Moreover, you are entirely generalizing it. HR is HR, consultant, or corporate, wondering why so much argument on this anyways. As discussed earlier, both have their positives and negatives though.
Though I am not aware of the reason for your frustration, I still insist you cannot blame others. Decisions in the company are not based on a single point of view but a series of people.
As far as the question of competency is concerned, all of us have our weaknesses and strengths whether working for a consultant or a corporate.
Regards,
Divya
From India, Madras
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Dear Shailender,
Thanks for your forthright view. We realize the situation the Corp HR is in. We know sometimes things are dictated by higher-ups/others. We empathize with the Good Corp HR on this account. I would only be concerned about the malpractices that are followed by some of the Corp HR professionals themselves. That should stop. For us, the HR Manager is THE Client. We look up to him to give us a fair chance to earn an honest living. Give us a level playing field... and then may the smartest, most resourceful, most hardworking, ethical, and honest consultant win!
Good HR Associates
From India, Chandigarh
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Thanks for your forthright view. We realize the situation the Corp HR is in. We know sometimes things are dictated by higher-ups/others. We empathize with the Good Corp HR on this account. I would only be concerned about the malpractices that are followed by some of the Corp HR professionals themselves. That should stop. For us, the HR Manager is THE Client. We look up to him to give us a fair chance to earn an honest living. Give us a level playing field... and then may the smartest, most resourceful, most hardworking, ethical, and honest consultant win!
Good HR Associates
From India, Chandigarh
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Dear Point here is that you forward a profile internally and get a nod. What if the candidate says he is not interested?
The whole point is getting a "Passive" candidate interested & excited about an opening by selling it to him in the right way.
The consultants sell the position in a way the client can't sell. And once the consultant has successfully been able to convince the candidate to explore the opening, the client "duplicates" the profile just because he had also downloaded it.
We need to realize that there are only so many candidates fitting the criteria the client is looking for. Most of the good candidates (by rule) would not be convinced easily to change. So it boils down to the selling part.
Who actually sold the position to the candidate? I hope all the recruiters will agree that finally Recruitment is a selling business.
As far as job portals are concerned, most have their CV's posted up. As I said in an earlier post, we have been able to convince good candidates after they have refused a client!! That should be proof enough that it is the selling of the position which matters.
I hope you are convinced. I am sure most of the consultants would agree with me.
Good HR Associates
From India, Chandigarh
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The whole point is getting a "Passive" candidate interested & excited about an opening by selling it to him in the right way.
The consultants sell the position in a way the client can't sell. And once the consultant has successfully been able to convince the candidate to explore the opening, the client "duplicates" the profile just because he had also downloaded it.
We need to realize that there are only so many candidates fitting the criteria the client is looking for. Most of the good candidates (by rule) would not be convinced easily to change. So it boils down to the selling part.
Who actually sold the position to the candidate? I hope all the recruiters will agree that finally Recruitment is a selling business.
As far as job portals are concerned, most have their CV's posted up. As I said in an earlier post, we have been able to convince good candidates after they have refused a client!! That should be proof enough that it is the selling of the position which matters.
I hope you are convinced. I am sure most of the consultants would agree with me.
Good HR Associates
From India, Chandigarh
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Dear Rajita This is the wrong thread to post this. Please start a fresh thread woith your request. Good HR Associates
From India, Chandigarh
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From India, Chandigarh
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This is not like that. Sometimes when HR people do not find job-matched profiles or want to fill positions internally, they tell consultants that the position is on hold. Sometimes HR people succeed in retaining employees after receiving resignations. I do not agree with this view. If a position arises, it cannot be put on hold; it must be filled either externally or internally. Sometimes consultants are in a hurry to get outcomes, making numerous calls to HR people. This can irritate HR professionals, who often respond that the position is on hold. I believe many of you may agree with the points mentioned above. It's all about relationships; how long you want to retain employees is up to you. Do not blame HR professionals without knowing the facts.
From India, Delhi
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From India, Delhi
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Dear Divya,
I agree that there could be genuine reasons when a position goes on hold. We come to know about that.
You mean to say that each and every time a position goes on hold (which happens a LOT!) - not to be revived again, there is a genuine reason!
Putting on hold till the profiles are being shortlisted / processed, candidates being interviewed - is fine, we understand. But what about an "Urgent" position which is put on hold (for Good) once enough work has been done on it. And then we find one of our candidates has joined after interviews were conducted without informing us?
Many times we are told that our candidate has been rejected, and two weeks later, we find that he has joined. Meanwhile, the Bad Corp HR is interacting with us on a whole lot of new positions and conveniently avoids telling us that. This is cheating!! Is it not??
Are you telling me Corp HR does not create its own database & their own pipeline of candidates using consultants?
We are forced to look at the darker side because it is OUR effort that goes to waste. It is WE who are taken for a ride & used. And we want the BAD Corp HR to stop doing it.
The Good Corp HR who do their jobs honestly are not in question here. Only the cheaters who also form part of the Corp HR.
Would good people like you not like to tell your bad HR brethren to please stop exploiting consultants?
Again, the advice would come... "Aree yaar..ye sab to chalta hai....don't cry.."
Good HR Associates
Hi All,
I disagree about the views posted "The Position is on Hold!" - Are you cheating Mr. Manager?
It is sensible enough that the corporates think twice before allocating the position to consultants. It's fair enough that they require paying a handsome amount towards recruitment. I certainly do not deny the efforts of consultants.
The positions are put on hold due to a variety of reasons not necessarily with an intend to cheat the consultant. It is sometimes done to wait till the approval of the clients, to choose between the shortlisted candidates, etc.
All of us have to agree that the number of selected candidates is not equal to the joiners. The ratio is around at the max 60-70% depending on the industry. HR's always have to keep this in mind while allocating the open positions. That according to me is practicality.
I think you are taking the darker side of things. A very pessimistic view.
"There are always two sides of a coin...it's up to you to choose from."
Moreover, you are entirely generalizing it. HR is HR, consultant or corporate wonder why so much argument on this anyways. As discussed earlier, both have their positives and negatives though.
Though I am not aware of the reason for your frustration, I still insist you cannot blame others. Decisions in the company are not based on a single point of view but a series of people.
As far as the question of competency is concerned, all of us have our weaknesses and strengths whether working for a consultant or a corporate.
Regards,
Divya
From India, Chandigarh
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I agree that there could be genuine reasons when a position goes on hold. We come to know about that.
You mean to say that each and every time a position goes on hold (which happens a LOT!) - not to be revived again, there is a genuine reason!
Putting on hold till the profiles are being shortlisted / processed, candidates being interviewed - is fine, we understand. But what about an "Urgent" position which is put on hold (for Good) once enough work has been done on it. And then we find one of our candidates has joined after interviews were conducted without informing us?
Many times we are told that our candidate has been rejected, and two weeks later, we find that he has joined. Meanwhile, the Bad Corp HR is interacting with us on a whole lot of new positions and conveniently avoids telling us that. This is cheating!! Is it not??
Are you telling me Corp HR does not create its own database & their own pipeline of candidates using consultants?
We are forced to look at the darker side because it is OUR effort that goes to waste. It is WE who are taken for a ride & used. And we want the BAD Corp HR to stop doing it.
The Good Corp HR who do their jobs honestly are not in question here. Only the cheaters who also form part of the Corp HR.
Would good people like you not like to tell your bad HR brethren to please stop exploiting consultants?
Again, the advice would come... "Aree yaar..ye sab to chalta hai....don't cry.."
Good HR Associates
Hi All,
I disagree about the views posted "The Position is on Hold!" - Are you cheating Mr. Manager?
It is sensible enough that the corporates think twice before allocating the position to consultants. It's fair enough that they require paying a handsome amount towards recruitment. I certainly do not deny the efforts of consultants.
The positions are put on hold due to a variety of reasons not necessarily with an intend to cheat the consultant. It is sometimes done to wait till the approval of the clients, to choose between the shortlisted candidates, etc.
All of us have to agree that the number of selected candidates is not equal to the joiners. The ratio is around at the max 60-70% depending on the industry. HR's always have to keep this in mind while allocating the open positions. That according to me is practicality.
I think you are taking the darker side of things. A very pessimistic view.
"There are always two sides of a coin...it's up to you to choose from."
Moreover, you are entirely generalizing it. HR is HR, consultant or corporate wonder why so much argument on this anyways. As discussed earlier, both have their positives and negatives though.
Though I am not aware of the reason for your frustration, I still insist you cannot blame others. Decisions in the company are not based on a single point of view but a series of people.
As far as the question of competency is concerned, all of us have our weaknesses and strengths whether working for a consultant or a corporate.
Regards,
Divya
From India, Chandigarh
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Hi,
Yes, there are people who practice these kinds of cheap tricks. We are involved in hiring, and recently I discovered that when we asked our consultant for the profiles, we were surprised to find that the profiles did not include the candidates' contact details. This implies that we have to rely solely on the consultant until the closure, as there is also no email ID provided.
Therefore, going forward, we can follow the same approach when forwarding profiles to HR managers or corporate heads. It is not wrong to safeguard your business and your efforts.
Regards,
Rajanikanth
Asst. Manager - HR
From India, Hyderabad
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Yes, there are people who practice these kinds of cheap tricks. We are involved in hiring, and recently I discovered that when we asked our consultant for the profiles, we were surprised to find that the profiles did not include the candidates' contact details. This implies that we have to rely solely on the consultant until the closure, as there is also no email ID provided.
Therefore, going forward, we can follow the same approach when forwarding profiles to HR managers or corporate heads. It is not wrong to safeguard your business and your efforts.
Regards,
Rajanikanth
Asst. Manager - HR
From India, Hyderabad
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Dear GHA,
I agree - selling is different. Maybe you can do it much better than the corporate HR.
But why not be on the safer side. Ask them for the list of people (names who are in the process already / or already downloaded). I guess it should be of no problem to them.
I did that in my previous co - to help my consultant understand that "I already have a set of profiles". Convincing a candidate has never been an issue from my end... In fact - my consultant shared a wonderful profile with me. I was excited.. so was my Managing Director. But the consultant could not convince, so he called me and asked ME to convince his candidate.
I did it. He was convinced. (not selected after interview though... because the position went on hold!)
So - you see, efforts are there from both the ends. My consultant was upset that the position went on hold, because he felt that "MY" efforts went to waste. It's a teamwork GHA...
Had we hired that person, we would have definitely paid them! (You see.... finding a passive profile is so hard, we know that.)
And about acting / talking against violence - yes, we should act for others to act.
Never blame. (I have done this - it does not work for me... people just join the blame game) Start by highlighting and showing facts.
I can give you "n" number of facts that would highlight why India is a million times better than US clients. Trust me - a few suck to the core.
You were asking why I protested against female insecurity.
I did not protest. - we are creating awareness among women - on how to react.
If I sit and complain, everyone will say "Yes Yes...some men are bad."
If I give one tight slap to a guy who misbehaves, he will shut his mouth (and I will also know that I need not be afraid and cry).
The awareness part is what we are communicating.
From India, Madras
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I agree - selling is different. Maybe you can do it much better than the corporate HR.
But why not be on the safer side. Ask them for the list of people (names who are in the process already / or already downloaded). I guess it should be of no problem to them.
I did that in my previous co - to help my consultant understand that "I already have a set of profiles". Convincing a candidate has never been an issue from my end... In fact - my consultant shared a wonderful profile with me. I was excited.. so was my Managing Director. But the consultant could not convince, so he called me and asked ME to convince his candidate.
I did it. He was convinced. (not selected after interview though... because the position went on hold!)
So - you see, efforts are there from both the ends. My consultant was upset that the position went on hold, because he felt that "MY" efforts went to waste. It's a teamwork GHA...
Had we hired that person, we would have definitely paid them! (You see.... finding a passive profile is so hard, we know that.)
And about acting / talking against violence - yes, we should act for others to act.
Never blame. (I have done this - it does not work for me... people just join the blame game) Start by highlighting and showing facts.
I can give you "n" number of facts that would highlight why India is a million times better than US clients. Trust me - a few suck to the core.
You were asking why I protested against female insecurity.
I did not protest. - we are creating awareness among women - on how to react.
If I sit and complain, everyone will say "Yes Yes...some men are bad."
If I give one tight slap to a guy who misbehaves, he will shut his mouth (and I will also know that I need not be afraid and cry).
The awareness part is what we are communicating.
From India, Madras
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