Dear Friends,
We have read everyone's feedback. As per consensus, we all are perceiving that a bribe, whether it is in the form of goods, services, or money, is ethical, or in other words, that's how corporates operate.
Don't we think that after providing them a bribe, we feel suppressiveness or guilt within ourselves? Are we not encouraging everyone to do it? Are we not contributors to it?
After having so many doubts, does anyone have a similar perspective to go forward with it? Let's say we are capable of making their mouths shut, but what about the people who are not eligible to meet the demand?
Hi, are we creating a flowery bed and presenting everything very easily? Being educated and cultured individuals, are we making any difference in society?
So, Prashant, I perceive that you should talk with your management and make the issue transparent in front of them. We are authentically not sure about the consequences, but one thing we can commit to is keeping our own values alive, which will uphold our reputation in our own eyes.
Hi, maybe your management provides you with a way, or you can keep it as the last option. But please don't spoil yourself for the sake of these things.
Maybe I am getting emotional about it, but seriously, it is time to think and appreciate Ravi's, as well as Ash's, efforts on it.
Regards,
Rach
From India, Delhi
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10We have read everyone's feedback. As per consensus, we all are perceiving that a bribe, whether it is in the form of goods, services, or money, is ethical, or in other words, that's how corporates operate.
Don't we think that after providing them a bribe, we feel suppressiveness or guilt within ourselves? Are we not encouraging everyone to do it? Are we not contributors to it?
After having so many doubts, does anyone have a similar perspective to go forward with it? Let's say we are capable of making their mouths shut, but what about the people who are not eligible to meet the demand?
Hi, are we creating a flowery bed and presenting everything very easily? Being educated and cultured individuals, are we making any difference in society?
So, Prashant, I perceive that you should talk with your management and make the issue transparent in front of them. We are authentically not sure about the consequences, but one thing we can commit to is keeping our own values alive, which will uphold our reputation in our own eyes.
Hi, maybe your management provides you with a way, or you can keep it as the last option. But please don't spoil yourself for the sake of these things.
Maybe I am getting emotional about it, but seriously, it is time to think and appreciate Ravi's, as well as Ash's, efforts on it.
Regards,
Rach
From India, Delhi
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Thanks, everyone for sharing your valuable thoughts on this issue. I have completely failed to understand one person here. Is he confused or simply a hypocrite? Because, in his last posting, where he appears to be giving tips on rooting out corruption, he always talked in favor of it. That's what makes him not credible to me.
As some of you have mentioned, and I agree, it will require a mammoth, collective, and focused effort if corruption is to be uprooted. Until such time, we have to live with this "necessary evil."
From India, Delhi
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As some of you have mentioned, and I agree, it will require a mammoth, collective, and focused effort if corruption is to be uprooted. Until such time, we have to live with this "necessary evil."
From India, Delhi
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Bang on Target, Ash,
It is Guru, but I avoided to quote a name. And Ash, I do agree with some of the points.
But what if the company is highly dependent on Government Policies and Philosophy?
Let's take a construction company, like DLF or GMR. Can we really imagine the amount that they are paying to the Government in order to win bids from the Government?
And if the corporates stop giving bribes, can we really answer how much the company will grow? Or let's say what steps can the government take in order to stop that company from working?
It can lead to serious consequences which no organization/company would like to undergo.
Even a company like TATA - though considered one of the most ethical companies to date, offers bribes but that bribery level is direct. (meaning: it offers bribery directly to leaders instead of intermediaries.) That is the reason why we actually don't know about TATA offering bribes!!
The bottom line remains invariable, Ash: "If we don't offer bribes, we won't know on which street we would be. But if we offer bribes, we know where we can reach."
From India, Madurai
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It is Guru, but I avoided to quote a name. And Ash, I do agree with some of the points.
But what if the company is highly dependent on Government Policies and Philosophy?
Let's take a construction company, like DLF or GMR. Can we really imagine the amount that they are paying to the Government in order to win bids from the Government?
And if the corporates stop giving bribes, can we really answer how much the company will grow? Or let's say what steps can the government take in order to stop that company from working?
It can lead to serious consequences which no organization/company would like to undergo.
Even a company like TATA - though considered one of the most ethical companies to date, offers bribes but that bribery level is direct. (meaning: it offers bribery directly to leaders instead of intermediaries.) That is the reason why we actually don't know about TATA offering bribes!!
The bottom line remains invariable, Ash: "If we don't offer bribes, we won't know on which street we would be. But if we offer bribes, we know where we can reach."
From India, Madurai
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Hi Folks, All of us have heard of phrase "Beg,Borrow,Steal", to get our workdone. Sometime we might have used these as well. Add "Bribe" to it.....
From India, Delhi
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From India, Delhi
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Dear Prashant,
As an HR head, I will explain the circumstances honestly to the government official for requisitioning the documents/release of payments to my organization and try to convince him in a better way as a gentle professional to cooperate with me being the HR head of an organization. I will also convince him with my talent and tactics to get my work done without any bribe. If possible, I would try to meet the higher officials and superiors in the government department to justify the stand of my organization to have a cordial look at us. A transparent deal may not face any challenges and problems in the matter of business transactions.
Suri Babu Komakula
From India, Vijayawada
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As an HR head, I will explain the circumstances honestly to the government official for requisitioning the documents/release of payments to my organization and try to convince him in a better way as a gentle professional to cooperate with me being the HR head of an organization. I will also convince him with my talent and tactics to get my work done without any bribe. If possible, I would try to meet the higher officials and superiors in the government department to justify the stand of my organization to have a cordial look at us. A transparent deal may not face any challenges and problems in the matter of business transactions.
Suri Babu Komakula
From India, Vijayawada
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You are correct, Zalak.
And yes, what can the government do about it? Ask for more bribes to curb bribery? I somehow feel that there will be no end to this corrupt practice. Big companies can get away with it, but for young entrepreneurs, won't this be a barrier? It is a real showstopper.
From India, Madras
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And yes, what can the government do about it? Ask for more bribes to curb bribery? I somehow feel that there will be no end to this corrupt practice. Big companies can get away with it, but for young entrepreneurs, won't this be a barrier? It is a real showstopper.
From India, Madras
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Hi gentlemen,
The bribe wine has been covered the tree of value. No doubt, we are only watering it by way of suggesting openly to give bribes. We inherited it and passing it to the descendants, pleading that it's an essential part of life in third-world countries. We are determined to bring the country glory of a developed nation by 2020 without eliminating the bribe wine. At least the HR professional should abstain from the idea of giving/offering bribes.
From India, Delhi
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The bribe wine has been covered the tree of value. No doubt, we are only watering it by way of suggesting openly to give bribes. We inherited it and passing it to the descendants, pleading that it's an essential part of life in third-world countries. We are determined to bring the country glory of a developed nation by 2020 without eliminating the bribe wine. At least the HR professional should abstain from the idea of giving/offering bribes.
From India, Delhi
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I think Zalak seems to have had a lot of unpleasant experiences with corruption, being in the power industry since the infrastructure segment is now the largest in terms of the quantums in corruption. Talking of the Tatas, their logic could be: if resorting to corrupt practices can't be avoided, better deal with the top, rather than the lower staff. But how many of the small companies will have the reach to approach the top guys in the government?
I am not sure if talking about the corruption in government departments or PSUs-which is a fact of life, as of now, at least-leads to any solution. For the simple reason that none of us have any say in it-except in a very limited way through the RTI. And how many of us have the time to spend to battle it-with all of us having to work to survive-with exceptions who can be counted on the fingers of one hand?
Like someone said earlier in this thread, corruption exists even in the private sector. And thanks to the IT boom since the past 10-15 years, this very profession of HRD turned out to be the primary cause-how and when can be shared, but it's irrelevant in this thread.
It's nice to lecture homilies, but practicing what we preach is pretty tough-I know from personal experience and which is where Ravi is right. I remember leaving the association with a couple of top-rated IT companies way back in 2000-2005, just because of the change of guard in the HR with guys passing subtle hints to share from the fees-despite being my company's major revenue earners. And when I took this up with a senior HR guy [he heads the HR function in a top-rated MNC @ Bangalore now], all he said was: why can't you go along with the tide and make money? And frankly, I have no regrets. I added other clients who shared similar ethics and values. All I can say is this: the situation isn't in my control, but what's in my control is my response to it. And participating in the corrupt act isn't the only possible response.
Why not begin naming those black sheep amongst our fraternity-based on each one's experiences within the private sector [be they HR professionals/managers or consultants]? Let's see how many of those who posted in CiteHR really mean what they said?
Regards,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
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I am not sure if talking about the corruption in government departments or PSUs-which is a fact of life, as of now, at least-leads to any solution. For the simple reason that none of us have any say in it-except in a very limited way through the RTI. And how many of us have the time to spend to battle it-with all of us having to work to survive-with exceptions who can be counted on the fingers of one hand?
Like someone said earlier in this thread, corruption exists even in the private sector. And thanks to the IT boom since the past 10-15 years, this very profession of HRD turned out to be the primary cause-how and when can be shared, but it's irrelevant in this thread.
It's nice to lecture homilies, but practicing what we preach is pretty tough-I know from personal experience and which is where Ravi is right. I remember leaving the association with a couple of top-rated IT companies way back in 2000-2005, just because of the change of guard in the HR with guys passing subtle hints to share from the fees-despite being my company's major revenue earners. And when I took this up with a senior HR guy [he heads the HR function in a top-rated MNC @ Bangalore now], all he said was: why can't you go along with the tide and make money? And frankly, I have no regrets. I added other clients who shared similar ethics and values. All I can say is this: the situation isn't in my control, but what's in my control is my response to it. And participating in the corrupt act isn't the only possible response.
Why not begin naming those black sheep amongst our fraternity-based on each one's experiences within the private sector [be they HR professionals/managers or consultants]? Let's see how many of those who posted in CiteHR really mean what they said?
Regards,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
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BTW, Zalak — you work in Adani Power. Does the name Bhavesh/Nilesh Adani sound familiar? Rgds, TS
From India, Hyderabad
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From India, Hyderabad
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I quite agree with what Ken said because just because something is the norm does not make it normal. If I am the decision-maker, I will ensure that I keep my records straight with no avenue for any government official to cheat or involve me in illegal deals. When I have to report to a line manager, I will let him decide, and draw my conclusions from there. I believe there are still law-abiding citizens and companies in the world.
A note to all - Who are you?
From Nigeria
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A note to all - Who are you?
From Nigeria
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