Hi,
It's been a long time for me to post an article on the site, even though I have updated many things here.
Okay, anyhow...
Recently, one of our employees quit the company, and as per the company policy, he is supposed to receive his Full and Final settlement by the 21st day. Since our HR Operations in Bangalore, employees have to keep in touch with the Bangalore Office. As a location incharge, I followed up and got the news that the employee's cheque is ready.
This week on Monday, I received an email from the location leader of our center stating that HR is not fulfilling their duties, which really hurt me.
After the email, I followed up with the HR Ops team and found out that they would process the cheque only on that particular day.
Following this incident, I updated our location leader and expressed my unhappiness about the incident.
This incident led us to a discussion on HR behavior towards outgoing or departed employees. It seems that when an employee expresses the desire to leave the company, HR would negotiate with them and try to retain them through various means. However, if the employee remains determined to leave, HR's attitude changes drastically, becoming very strict.
They do not even bother to pay them on time and take their own sweet time to complete the work, assuming the employee won't show up.
I truly support this point, and here, I try to reinforce what was noted. From my experience, I have observed the same lethargy from my executives who have shown no interest in finalizing these matters.
Guys, when an employee resigns, we do everything to retain them, but why don't we pay attention to their settlements when they leave the company?
I would like to remind you that when we invest a lot of money to attract an employee, why do we make them so unhappy when they depart the company?
I HOPE EVERYONE IN THE FORUM AGREES THAT ALL DEPARTED EMPLOYEES ARE THE FUTURE PROSPECTS OF OUR COMPANY.
WHEN WE WANT CANDIDATES TO ATTEND INTERVIEWS HAPPILY AND WANT OUR EMPLOYEES TO BE HAPPY IN THE COMPANY, WHY DO WE NOT CARE ABOUT THE EMPLOYEES' HAPPY DEPARTURE?
IF AN EMPLOYEE LEAVES HAPPILY WITH HR, WHATEVER THE REASON FOR THEIR EXIT, I AM CONFIDENT THEY WOULD RETURN TO OUR COMPANY WITHOUT SECOND THOUGHTS IF HR EMPLOYEES ARE GOOD. THIS WOULD ALSO REDUCE A LOT OF RECRUITMENT COSTS.
I KINDLY REQUEST THE HR TEAM TO TREAT OUTGOING EMPLOYEES WITH A MORE HUMANE APPROACH.
I WELCOME COMMENTS AND SUGGESTIONS.
GOPI.K
9952414092
From India, Chandigarh
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7It's been a long time for me to post an article on the site, even though I have updated many things here.
Okay, anyhow...
Recently, one of our employees quit the company, and as per the company policy, he is supposed to receive his Full and Final settlement by the 21st day. Since our HR Operations in Bangalore, employees have to keep in touch with the Bangalore Office. As a location incharge, I followed up and got the news that the employee's cheque is ready.
This week on Monday, I received an email from the location leader of our center stating that HR is not fulfilling their duties, which really hurt me.
After the email, I followed up with the HR Ops team and found out that they would process the cheque only on that particular day.
Following this incident, I updated our location leader and expressed my unhappiness about the incident.
This incident led us to a discussion on HR behavior towards outgoing or departed employees. It seems that when an employee expresses the desire to leave the company, HR would negotiate with them and try to retain them through various means. However, if the employee remains determined to leave, HR's attitude changes drastically, becoming very strict.
They do not even bother to pay them on time and take their own sweet time to complete the work, assuming the employee won't show up.
I truly support this point, and here, I try to reinforce what was noted. From my experience, I have observed the same lethargy from my executives who have shown no interest in finalizing these matters.
Guys, when an employee resigns, we do everything to retain them, but why don't we pay attention to their settlements when they leave the company?
I would like to remind you that when we invest a lot of money to attract an employee, why do we make them so unhappy when they depart the company?
I HOPE EVERYONE IN THE FORUM AGREES THAT ALL DEPARTED EMPLOYEES ARE THE FUTURE PROSPECTS OF OUR COMPANY.
WHEN WE WANT CANDIDATES TO ATTEND INTERVIEWS HAPPILY AND WANT OUR EMPLOYEES TO BE HAPPY IN THE COMPANY, WHY DO WE NOT CARE ABOUT THE EMPLOYEES' HAPPY DEPARTURE?
IF AN EMPLOYEE LEAVES HAPPILY WITH HR, WHATEVER THE REASON FOR THEIR EXIT, I AM CONFIDENT THEY WOULD RETURN TO OUR COMPANY WITHOUT SECOND THOUGHTS IF HR EMPLOYEES ARE GOOD. THIS WOULD ALSO REDUCE A LOT OF RECRUITMENT COSTS.
I KINDLY REQUEST THE HR TEAM TO TREAT OUTGOING EMPLOYEES WITH A MORE HUMANE APPROACH.
I WELCOME COMMENTS AND SUGGESTIONS.
GOPI.K
9952414092
From India, Chandigarh
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Dear,
I understand and want to highlight that in a few cases, HR is dependent on bosses like V.P., Director, CEO, CMD for the approval of the Full and Final settlement.
If, in case, a boss wants to stop due to any reason, HR is caught in failure in the F&F settlement. This issue or failure HR is not disclosing to other departments or outsiders because of their image.
Unless it is approved, our dear Finance department cannot issue a cheque.
In a few companies, top management pretends that they are good and have a good work culture and give many good talks. However, if any employee leaves the job and HR does not get the replacement on time, they neglect to sign the clearance and keep passing time.
There are various reasons for the delay - in many cases, the signing authority is not available, funds are not available, etc.
As an outsider or other department staff, we feel HR is intentionally delaying. Think logically, if an HR person quits, they will also face the same problem. Maybe in some companies HR may delay due to workload or other urgent assignments. But intentionally, they will not delay because HR also wants to appear good in front of all the staff.
From India, Visakhapatnam
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I understand and want to highlight that in a few cases, HR is dependent on bosses like V.P., Director, CEO, CMD for the approval of the Full and Final settlement.
If, in case, a boss wants to stop due to any reason, HR is caught in failure in the F&F settlement. This issue or failure HR is not disclosing to other departments or outsiders because of their image.
Unless it is approved, our dear Finance department cannot issue a cheque.
In a few companies, top management pretends that they are good and have a good work culture and give many good talks. However, if any employee leaves the job and HR does not get the replacement on time, they neglect to sign the clearance and keep passing time.
There are various reasons for the delay - in many cases, the signing authority is not available, funds are not available, etc.
As an outsider or other department staff, we feel HR is intentionally delaying. Think logically, if an HR person quits, they will also face the same problem. Maybe in some companies HR may delay due to workload or other urgent assignments. But intentionally, they will not delay because HR also wants to appear good in front of all the staff.
From India, Visakhapatnam
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Dear,
I understand and want to highlight that in few cases HR is depending on the bosses like V.P, Director, CEO, CMD for the approval of the Full and Final settlement. If in case Boss wants to stop due to any reason, HR is caught to be a failure in the F&F settlement. This issue/failure HR is not disclosing to other departments or outsiders because of their image. Unless it is approved, our dear Finance department cannot issue a cheque.
In few companies, top management pretends that they are good and having a good work culture and give many good talks. But if any of the employees leave the job and HR is not getting the replacement on time, they neglect to sign the clearance and keep on passing time. There are various reasons for the delay - in many cases, signing authority is not available, funds are not available, etc.
As an outsider or other department staff, we feel HR is delaying intentionally. Think logically, if an HR person quits, he will also face the same problem. Maybe in some companies HR may delay due to workload/other urgent assignments. But intentionally they will not delay because HR also wants to be good in front of all the staff.
I don't fully agree with what you tell. As far as I know, it is HR who processes claims and gives them to the finance department to issue a cheque. For your information, HR never makes or signs cheques. All statutory benefits clearance lies in the hands of HR.
Employees feel that HR is unnecessarily delaying the payment of PF, salary, and other statutory benefits because it is displayed from the cold attitude of HR. Even if an employee calls up HR to enquire about the payment, HR does not correctly answer regarding the status and arrogantly speaks on calls, thus making the candidate feel like never calling HR again. The HR who spoke sweetly when the employee was in service, thinks he is doing a favor to the employee by paying him his statutory dues. Many HR don't even bother to inform the candidate that his such and such amount is pending and keep mum until the employee himself enquires about it.
From India, Pune
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I understand and want to highlight that in few cases HR is depending on the bosses like V.P, Director, CEO, CMD for the approval of the Full and Final settlement. If in case Boss wants to stop due to any reason, HR is caught to be a failure in the F&F settlement. This issue/failure HR is not disclosing to other departments or outsiders because of their image. Unless it is approved, our dear Finance department cannot issue a cheque.
In few companies, top management pretends that they are good and having a good work culture and give many good talks. But if any of the employees leave the job and HR is not getting the replacement on time, they neglect to sign the clearance and keep on passing time. There are various reasons for the delay - in many cases, signing authority is not available, funds are not available, etc.
As an outsider or other department staff, we feel HR is delaying intentionally. Think logically, if an HR person quits, he will also face the same problem. Maybe in some companies HR may delay due to workload/other urgent assignments. But intentionally they will not delay because HR also wants to be good in front of all the staff.
I don't fully agree with what you tell. As far as I know, it is HR who processes claims and gives them to the finance department to issue a cheque. For your information, HR never makes or signs cheques. All statutory benefits clearance lies in the hands of HR.
Employees feel that HR is unnecessarily delaying the payment of PF, salary, and other statutory benefits because it is displayed from the cold attitude of HR. Even if an employee calls up HR to enquire about the payment, HR does not correctly answer regarding the status and arrogantly speaks on calls, thus making the candidate feel like never calling HR again. The HR who spoke sweetly when the employee was in service, thinks he is doing a favor to the employee by paying him his statutory dues. Many HR don't even bother to inform the candidate that his such and such amount is pending and keep mum until the employee himself enquires about it.
From India, Pune
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Hi,
I was going through the discussion happening above, and I completely agree that 98% of companies do not pay attention to the employees who are exiting from the company.
Companies start treating an exiting employee as an enemy as soon as he/she resigns.
I believe all HR personnel should understand the sensitivity of the matter because an employee who has served a company and is leaving will never recommend other known professionals to join an organization that creates problems for exiting employees.
Thanks,
Anshu Goyal
From India, Bangalore
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I was going through the discussion happening above, and I completely agree that 98% of companies do not pay attention to the employees who are exiting from the company.
Companies start treating an exiting employee as an enemy as soon as he/she resigns.
I believe all HR personnel should understand the sensitivity of the matter because an employee who has served a company and is leaving will never recommend other known professionals to join an organization that creates problems for exiting employees.
Thanks,
Anshu Goyal
From India, Bangalore
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Dear Ravi,
I am not blaming the HR team. I am aware of what is happening in the industry. Based on my 11 years of experience as Head of HR, I would like to provide some insights. That's it.
I appreciate your involvement, my friend.
Thanks,
Gopi.K
From India, Chandigarh
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I am not blaming the HR team. I am aware of what is happening in the industry. Based on my 11 years of experience as Head of HR, I would like to provide some insights. That's it.
I appreciate your involvement, my friend.
Thanks,
Gopi.K
From India, Chandigarh
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Hi,
As many replies have been posted related to this, I just want to say I do agree with this. If HR persons do not reply properly, then who will be responsible for this?
As I am working as an Executive Back Office Admin with a broking company in Jaipur, our HR operations are in Delhi, so I also face the same problem many times.
As a location in-charge, I am responsible for the joining and separation process of employees. When an employee joins, the HR persons frequently ask to complete their joining formalities to me. But when an employee resigns, I have to ask HR many times for their F&F settlement. It's totally unethical.
If we welcome any employee with full attention, then we should exit him with full attention too.
But I am not able to understand why HR people don't do their duties in a right way. HR MEANS "HIRE AND RETAIN"; whatever the reason, at least they can reply properly. When I asked our HR about the same, they replied, "We don't know the exact date; the F&F is in process. As we complete our process, we shall get back to you." Is this a proper reply?
Every person has their own adjustments with their financial position. I have seen an example for the same in my company; an employee resigned on 20th May, but his F&F is still pending. He asked me that his LIC premium check has been bounced due to insufficient funds because our HR said they would release his check within a week. The same I conveyed to him, and now it's over a month, and they didn't send his F&F check.
I am not able to understand what I should reply to a resigned employee. Is it right to misguide them for their own money?
If we want services on time from employees, then we should also pay on time; after all, it's their rights. It's my experience whatever the case may be; the HR person should consider employees' requirements as well as the company's.
Really, it's nice to share our experience and views at one place, and all credit goes to cite HR that enables all of us to share our experiences here.
Regards, Archana:icon1:
"Changing the face can change nothing, but facing the change can change everything."
From India, Delhi
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As many replies have been posted related to this, I just want to say I do agree with this. If HR persons do not reply properly, then who will be responsible for this?
As I am working as an Executive Back Office Admin with a broking company in Jaipur, our HR operations are in Delhi, so I also face the same problem many times.
As a location in-charge, I am responsible for the joining and separation process of employees. When an employee joins, the HR persons frequently ask to complete their joining formalities to me. But when an employee resigns, I have to ask HR many times for their F&F settlement. It's totally unethical.
If we welcome any employee with full attention, then we should exit him with full attention too.
But I am not able to understand why HR people don't do their duties in a right way. HR MEANS "HIRE AND RETAIN"; whatever the reason, at least they can reply properly. When I asked our HR about the same, they replied, "We don't know the exact date; the F&F is in process. As we complete our process, we shall get back to you." Is this a proper reply?
Every person has their own adjustments with their financial position. I have seen an example for the same in my company; an employee resigned on 20th May, but his F&F is still pending. He asked me that his LIC premium check has been bounced due to insufficient funds because our HR said they would release his check within a week. The same I conveyed to him, and now it's over a month, and they didn't send his F&F check.
I am not able to understand what I should reply to a resigned employee. Is it right to misguide them for their own money?
If we want services on time from employees, then we should also pay on time; after all, it's their rights. It's my experience whatever the case may be; the HR person should consider employees' requirements as well as the company's.
Really, it's nice to share our experience and views at one place, and all credit goes to cite HR that enables all of us to share our experiences here.
Regards, Archana:icon1:
"Changing the face can change nothing, but facing the change can change everything."
From India, Delhi
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Dear Archana,
Excellent. I do agree with you. It is not that we are trying to blame HR; it is a brainstorming session for all of us. At least now we can realize what would be going on in a resigned employee's mind. I see that some of us wrote that Finance is causing delays, but it is, again, our smartness to get the F&F of any resigned employee. Thanks for your wonderful thoughts, my friend. You have presented a new perspective on HR in your email.
Regards,
Gopi.K
From India, Chandigarh
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Excellent. I do agree with you. It is not that we are trying to blame HR; it is a brainstorming session for all of us. At least now we can realize what would be going on in a resigned employee's mind. I see that some of us wrote that Finance is causing delays, but it is, again, our smartness to get the F&F of any resigned employee. Thanks for your wonderful thoughts, my friend. You have presented a new perspective on HR in your email.
Regards,
Gopi.K
From India, Chandigarh
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Really the session is very hot and acknowledging. All ideas seem to be coming from deep experience and intelligence.
From India, Vadodara
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From India, Vadodara
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Indeed, this is a very good topic to discuss. The reality is that once an employee resigns from an organization, the management will often try to undermine him/her. Of course, it is unethical, and they completely forget about the particular employee's contributions or long service. Trust me, it happened to me even though I was a senior staff member in HR. I made a point to inform the HR Manager that they should never treat any employee in this manner, as it could tarnish the company's reputation among potential candidates. What if an employee were to tell 10 people about their behavior? It might lead to a management investigation, but everyone would likely point fingers at the HR Department.
Kindly remember to always treat your employees with respect and fairness.
From Kuwait, Kuwait
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Kindly remember to always treat your employees with respect and fairness.
From Kuwait, Kuwait
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Hi All,
Ravi, it seems like you have had a very bad experience with HRs, but do not generalize all HRs. I still have a good rapport with the employees who quit and are willing to join us back. In case things get delayed, there is every chance of higher management's influence on this. HR is just a puppet and does not necessarily have all authorities.
From India, Hyderabad
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Ravi, it seems like you have had a very bad experience with HRs, but do not generalize all HRs. I still have a good rapport with the employees who quit and are willing to join us back. In case things get delayed, there is every chance of higher management's influence on this. HR is just a puppet and does not necessarily have all authorities.
From India, Hyderabad
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Hi, buddies.
In the companies where I have worked, leaving employees are treated fairly, and settlements are made on time because it is well understood that "leaving employees are the best ambassadors of the company." Therefore, this largely depends on the HR department that is operating within the company.
Moreover, in most companies, for Full and Final (F&F) settlements, only the clearance certificate is provided by the HR department to Finance. Subsequently, the F&F cheque is sent to the resigned employee solely by the Finance Department. The HR personnel responsible for overseeing the separation process can expedite the process by closely following up with the finance department.
To address this issue, we can gather feedback from former employees on the Separation/F&F settlement processes through a questionnaire via email and take any necessary corrective actions.
As emphasized by fellow HR professionals, HR should take a leading role in this matter.
Thanks and regards,
Kalyan R
From India, Madras
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In the companies where I have worked, leaving employees are treated fairly, and settlements are made on time because it is well understood that "leaving employees are the best ambassadors of the company." Therefore, this largely depends on the HR department that is operating within the company.
Moreover, in most companies, for Full and Final (F&F) settlements, only the clearance certificate is provided by the HR department to Finance. Subsequently, the F&F cheque is sent to the resigned employee solely by the Finance Department. The HR personnel responsible for overseeing the separation process can expedite the process by closely following up with the finance department.
To address this issue, we can gather feedback from former employees on the Separation/F&F settlement processes through a questionnaire via email and take any necessary corrective actions.
As emphasized by fellow HR professionals, HR should take a leading role in this matter.
Thanks and regards,
Kalyan R
From India, Madras
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Hi,
It's really good to see such a useful conversation where everyone has a new point to add. I do agree with Archana, but I would also like to say that it's not always between HR and finance, but sometimes within HR. I have seen cases within a company where if HR has a good rapport with the employee, their Full and Final (F&F) settlement was done on time. However, if the HR relationship is like any other employee, it took more than a month, and in some cases, it was actually more than 2 months. I was surprised and unable to understand why this variation exists. What would HR gain by delaying the F&F settlement? One day, they would also leave the organization. Why don't they think that their juniors would learn from them and follow the same culture?
Guys, it's not just for namesake that I shared my opinion; it really happened. As an HR professional, I was asked by another HR in the same department why this is so. By delaying the work, the Senior HR is not only delaying the work but also being criticized by people in their own department.
Regards,
Javaji
From India, Hyderabad
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It's really good to see such a useful conversation where everyone has a new point to add. I do agree with Archana, but I would also like to say that it's not always between HR and finance, but sometimes within HR. I have seen cases within a company where if HR has a good rapport with the employee, their Full and Final (F&F) settlement was done on time. However, if the HR relationship is like any other employee, it took more than a month, and in some cases, it was actually more than 2 months. I was surprised and unable to understand why this variation exists. What would HR gain by delaying the F&F settlement? One day, they would also leave the organization. Why don't they think that their juniors would learn from them and follow the same culture?
Guys, it's not just for namesake that I shared my opinion; it really happened. As an HR professional, I was asked by another HR in the same department why this is so. By delaying the work, the Senior HR is not only delaying the work but also being criticized by people in their own department.
Regards,
Javaji
From India, Hyderabad
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Dear All,
Though we are HR professionals, we are also employees. And as employees, what do we expect if we leave the organization? Simple - clearance of all dues and payment on the day we leave.
Similarly, we should be sensible enough to expedite the process and ensure that the departing employee receives all their dues (apart from PF/Gratuity, etc.) on the day they leave, or at least within 2-3 days of their departure.
Objectivity and fairness in the processes are the prime responsibilities of HR, and in any case, we need to put forth all our efforts.
The outgoing employee should leave the organization with happiness and a positive response, as they will be the ambassadors of the organization they are leaving.
I remember, in one of my previous employments, we were even considering sending the company's quarterly news magazine to former employees' residences so they could feel proud of the organization they worked for and could always share positive things about the company.
Regarding the influence of other personalities in the organization, except for some genuinely valid technical reasons, HR should be strong enough to prevent unwanted influence for baseless reasons.
Jayesh Naik
From India, Vadodara
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Though we are HR professionals, we are also employees. And as employees, what do we expect if we leave the organization? Simple - clearance of all dues and payment on the day we leave.
Similarly, we should be sensible enough to expedite the process and ensure that the departing employee receives all their dues (apart from PF/Gratuity, etc.) on the day they leave, or at least within 2-3 days of their departure.
Objectivity and fairness in the processes are the prime responsibilities of HR, and in any case, we need to put forth all our efforts.
The outgoing employee should leave the organization with happiness and a positive response, as they will be the ambassadors of the organization they are leaving.
I remember, in one of my previous employments, we were even considering sending the company's quarterly news magazine to former employees' residences so they could feel proud of the organization they worked for and could always share positive things about the company.
Regarding the influence of other personalities in the organization, except for some genuinely valid technical reasons, HR should be strong enough to prevent unwanted influence for baseless reasons.
Jayesh Naik
From India, Vadodara
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Cos Clearing dues is also one of the tasks.
I think there should be a proper system with defined TATs/deadlines and also commitment to do the task wholeheartedly.
It's harsh, rude, and cheap, but it's the truth that most of the time not just the HRs but even other entities in the organization develop some kind of bias or lethargic attitude towards the employee, which should not be happening!
I feel people should develop a feeling of working for the business because each process contributes to the growth of the business in so many ways!
HRs and the management of the organization should never forget that people carry their experiences and memories, and the feeling of how you made them feel.
From India, Mumbai
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I think there should be a proper system with defined TATs/deadlines and also commitment to do the task wholeheartedly.
It's harsh, rude, and cheap, but it's the truth that most of the time not just the HRs but even other entities in the organization develop some kind of bias or lethargic attitude towards the employee, which should not be happening!
I feel people should develop a feeling of working for the business because each process contributes to the growth of the business in so many ways!
HRs and the management of the organization should never forget that people carry their experiences and memories, and the feeling of how you made them feel.
From India, Mumbai
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Hi Friends!
I hope the original post is read as a case/incident specific to an organization or unit of organization or individuals, and that the content of the post will not be generalized.
There are black pages (unethical/unexpected attitude) in the medical profession, legal profession, and even in armed forces. Someone has tried to show that HR too has such individuals. I agree that there are some individuals in HR who fail to give priority to clearing the dues of employees who exit. But it cannot be generalized.
While I have experienced both sides, once I was handed over my cheque at 5.30 pm on the last day of my employment at one organization, and in the second case, I had to wait for 6 months without any reason. In our organization, we treat the F & F on a priority basis and clear them at the earliest. Here, I must add that there is a sharp decline in the number of employees leaving smoothly. Some just quit without intimating, some put in their papers and just vanish without serving notice pay. Most organizations follow the practice of NO DUE CERTIFICATE for clearing the F & F, which nowadays is becoming a problem. You all will agree that the accounts section will not release payment without a No Due Certificate.
As far as Ravi's views are concerned, he has had great success in getting amazing attention by showing the negative side of HR all the time. :) No surprises after going through Ravi's post.
- Hiten Parekh
From India, New Delhi
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I hope the original post is read as a case/incident specific to an organization or unit of organization or individuals, and that the content of the post will not be generalized.
There are black pages (unethical/unexpected attitude) in the medical profession, legal profession, and even in armed forces. Someone has tried to show that HR too has such individuals. I agree that there are some individuals in HR who fail to give priority to clearing the dues of employees who exit. But it cannot be generalized.
While I have experienced both sides, once I was handed over my cheque at 5.30 pm on the last day of my employment at one organization, and in the second case, I had to wait for 6 months without any reason. In our organization, we treat the F & F on a priority basis and clear them at the earliest. Here, I must add that there is a sharp decline in the number of employees leaving smoothly. Some just quit without intimating, some put in their papers and just vanish without serving notice pay. Most organizations follow the practice of NO DUE CERTIFICATE for clearing the F & F, which nowadays is becoming a problem. You all will agree that the accounts section will not release payment without a No Due Certificate.
As far as Ravi's views are concerned, he has had great success in getting amazing attention by showing the negative side of HR all the time. :) No surprises after going through Ravi's post.
- Hiten Parekh
From India, New Delhi
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Dear All,
Very interesting topic. I have been going through all the views from various people. I would like to share a few things on this topic. First of all, everyone should understand that HR is also a part of the organization (though it is an important one) and it has to depend on other departments for certain processes. Sometimes work may be delayed due to other departmental workload or other reasons.
Of course, every profession will have truly lethargic individuals who can spoil the whole profession. If anybody has had bad experiences with such people, please blame the individual, not the profession. Finally, as far as this topic is concerned, HR's response depends on the way employees exit from the organization.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
Regards, Anil
From India, Hyderabad
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Very interesting topic. I have been going through all the views from various people. I would like to share a few things on this topic. First of all, everyone should understand that HR is also a part of the organization (though it is an important one) and it has to depend on other departments for certain processes. Sometimes work may be delayed due to other departmental workload or other reasons.
Of course, every profession will have truly lethargic individuals who can spoil the whole profession. If anybody has had bad experiences with such people, please blame the individual, not the profession. Finally, as far as this topic is concerned, HR's response depends on the way employees exit from the organization.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
Regards, Anil
From India, Hyderabad
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Dear friend,
I agree with you that all left employees are your future prospects. We must treat them very politely and sophisticatedly so that employees think that the HR department is much better compared to new organizations. In the end, it's all about your behavior and attitude that is being counted.
From India, Bangalore
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I agree with you that all left employees are your future prospects. We must treat them very politely and sophisticatedly so that employees think that the HR department is much better compared to new organizations. In the end, it's all about your behavior and attitude that is being counted.
From India, Bangalore
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Hi,
After seeing the views of many people on this issue, I would say that sometimes we do come across such situations where the employee informs and leaves the company. In those cases, we are polite with them because they have given time to hand over all the work. However, if an employee comes and says within a day or two that they need to be relieved, then I think the management or the HR department does not see it as a good sign. This is where the employee may feel that the HR department is acting in a weird manner. But one must also consider the position of the company, especially if the employee is leaving the project midway. Otherwise, I don't see HR behaving badly with any employee.
HR is the support for all employees; everyone comes to it looking for help. We handle everything from A to Z for employees. I hope employees understand that HR is there for them and cooperate with HR. I have witnessed many employees leaving projects midway without informing or giving the notice period. In such cases, we have not provided them with an experience letter or settlement; instead, we have taken legal action against them. On the other hand, those who inform us and leave, we have never ill-treated them. The management also cooperates. The key lies in how you communicate with the management about the reasons for an employee leaving and their association with the job.
Regards,
Sadhana
From India, Delhi
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After seeing the views of many people on this issue, I would say that sometimes we do come across such situations where the employee informs and leaves the company. In those cases, we are polite with them because they have given time to hand over all the work. However, if an employee comes and says within a day or two that they need to be relieved, then I think the management or the HR department does not see it as a good sign. This is where the employee may feel that the HR department is acting in a weird manner. But one must also consider the position of the company, especially if the employee is leaving the project midway. Otherwise, I don't see HR behaving badly with any employee.
HR is the support for all employees; everyone comes to it looking for help. We handle everything from A to Z for employees. I hope employees understand that HR is there for them and cooperate with HR. I have witnessed many employees leaving projects midway without informing or giving the notice period. In such cases, we have not provided them with an experience letter or settlement; instead, we have taken legal action against them. On the other hand, those who inform us and leave, we have never ill-treated them. The management also cooperates. The key lies in how you communicate with the management about the reasons for an employee leaving and their association with the job.
Regards,
Sadhana
From India, Delhi
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Dear Ravi,
Hi, I was going through this session. It seems you had a bad experience with HR before, but it does not always happen. Since I am a Sr. Executive HR who is taking care of full and final employee separation formalities. We, being in HR, understand the importance that whenever any employee leaves, he or she expects that his or her clearance formalities are done smoothly. Delays happen due to various reasons:
1) If the person has not paid the notice period and his F&F comes as negative, we wait for the gratuity amount to come if he has completed five years or more.
2) Sometimes, they do not submit the Medical LTA bills on time. We follow up regularly even if the employee has left, asking for their bills. Even if we submit the F&F statement in accounts, they, in turn, have certain obligations that without proper supporting documents, they will not process further.
3) Sometimes, we even deposit their cheques in their personal accounts.
4) Sometimes, the delay occurs both from IT and the employees themselves as at the time of leaving, they do not provide the supporting documents for calculating their IT. We also believe that if they provide the relevant documents, their maximum tax amount can be saved.
There are many reasons for the delay in their payments. However, being in HR, we should be sensible in terms of ensuring that when any person leaves the organization, they should not leave on a bad note, and we should try to smoothen the process as fast as we can.
Regarding the additional text provided by Gopi:
Its been a long time for me to post an article on the site, even though I updated many things. Recently, one of our employees quit the company, and as per company policy, he is supposed to get his F&F by the 21st day. Since our HR Operations in Bangalore, employees have to keep in touch with the Bangalore Office. As a location incharge, I followed up and got the news that the employee's cheque is ready.
This week on Monday, I received an email from the location leader of our center stating that HR is not doing their duty, which really hurt me. After the email, I followed up again with the HROps team and came to know that they would process the cheque only on that particular day.
After this incident, I updated our location leader and expressed my unhappiness about the incident. This incident led to a discussion of HR behavior towards outgoing or former employees. It seems that when an employee wants to quit the company, HR would negotiate with them and try to retain them in every way possible. But if the same employee is stubborn about leaving the company, the attitude of HR changes drastically, and they behave very harshly towards them.
They do not even bother to pay them on time and take their own sweet time to complete the work, assuming that the employee would not follow up. I supported his point and here, try to supplement what he noted. From my experience, I have seen the same lethargy from my executives who did not even show any interest in closing this.
When an employee gives his resignation, we do everything to keep them, but why do we not bother about their settlements when they leave the company? I would like to remind you that when we spend lots of money to attract an employee, why are we making them so unhappy when they leave the company?
I hope everyone in the forum accepts that all former employees are future prospects of our company. When we want candidates to attend interviews happily and want our employees to be content in the company, why do we not care about employees' happy exits?
If an employee leaves happily with HR, whatever the reason for the exit may be, I am sure he would come back to our company without any second thoughts if HR employees are good. This would also reduce a lot of recruitment costs.
I kindly request the HR team to treat outgoing employees with a more humane approach.
I welcome comments and suggestions.
Gopi.K
9952414092
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Hi, I was going through this session. It seems you had a bad experience with HR before, but it does not always happen. Since I am a Sr. Executive HR who is taking care of full and final employee separation formalities. We, being in HR, understand the importance that whenever any employee leaves, he or she expects that his or her clearance formalities are done smoothly. Delays happen due to various reasons:
1) If the person has not paid the notice period and his F&F comes as negative, we wait for the gratuity amount to come if he has completed five years or more.
2) Sometimes, they do not submit the Medical LTA bills on time. We follow up regularly even if the employee has left, asking for their bills. Even if we submit the F&F statement in accounts, they, in turn, have certain obligations that without proper supporting documents, they will not process further.
3) Sometimes, we even deposit their cheques in their personal accounts.
4) Sometimes, the delay occurs both from IT and the employees themselves as at the time of leaving, they do not provide the supporting documents for calculating their IT. We also believe that if they provide the relevant documents, their maximum tax amount can be saved.
There are many reasons for the delay in their payments. However, being in HR, we should be sensible in terms of ensuring that when any person leaves the organization, they should not leave on a bad note, and we should try to smoothen the process as fast as we can.
Regarding the additional text provided by Gopi:
Its been a long time for me to post an article on the site, even though I updated many things. Recently, one of our employees quit the company, and as per company policy, he is supposed to get his F&F by the 21st day. Since our HR Operations in Bangalore, employees have to keep in touch with the Bangalore Office. As a location incharge, I followed up and got the news that the employee's cheque is ready.
This week on Monday, I received an email from the location leader of our center stating that HR is not doing their duty, which really hurt me. After the email, I followed up again with the HROps team and came to know that they would process the cheque only on that particular day.
After this incident, I updated our location leader and expressed my unhappiness about the incident. This incident led to a discussion of HR behavior towards outgoing or former employees. It seems that when an employee wants to quit the company, HR would negotiate with them and try to retain them in every way possible. But if the same employee is stubborn about leaving the company, the attitude of HR changes drastically, and they behave very harshly towards them.
They do not even bother to pay them on time and take their own sweet time to complete the work, assuming that the employee would not follow up. I supported his point and here, try to supplement what he noted. From my experience, I have seen the same lethargy from my executives who did not even show any interest in closing this.
When an employee gives his resignation, we do everything to keep them, but why do we not bother about their settlements when they leave the company? I would like to remind you that when we spend lots of money to attract an employee, why are we making them so unhappy when they leave the company?
I hope everyone in the forum accepts that all former employees are future prospects of our company. When we want candidates to attend interviews happily and want our employees to be content in the company, why do we not care about employees' happy exits?
If an employee leaves happily with HR, whatever the reason for the exit may be, I am sure he would come back to our company without any second thoughts if HR employees are good. This would also reduce a lot of recruitment costs.
I kindly request the HR team to treat outgoing employees with a more humane approach.
I welcome comments and suggestions.
Gopi.K
9952414092
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Gopi,
Thank you for such a nice posting, which is very important for all of us in HR.
Following are the inputs to the best of my knowledge:
- Majorly, this happens in bigger organizations because of poor Process & Task Management.
- The person responsible (Ex: HR Head for bigger organizations, Sr. Mgmt in small organizations, etc.) should check on this with the team once a month.
- In bigger organizations, the person responsible for processing F&F will have 1 to 2 years of experience and needs proper coaching on the importance of the on-time F&F process.
- Bigger organizations should have a proper HR System and check on details for SLA slipped cases to fine-tune the process.
- Most small-size organizations finish major formalities by the last day; only the F&F statement and Form 16 need to be sent on time.
- F&F will be stopped only in the case of an employee not completing exit formalities.
On a lighter side – If you ask the HR Head of any bigger organization where such a problem exists, the response could be...
“Ya, I understand. You know, my plate is filled with priorities, however, it's on my radar screen and we'll fix it fast.”
Cheers,
Pradeep
From India, Hyderabad
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Thank you for such a nice posting, which is very important for all of us in HR.
Following are the inputs to the best of my knowledge:
- Majorly, this happens in bigger organizations because of poor Process & Task Management.
- The person responsible (Ex: HR Head for bigger organizations, Sr. Mgmt in small organizations, etc.) should check on this with the team once a month.
- In bigger organizations, the person responsible for processing F&F will have 1 to 2 years of experience and needs proper coaching on the importance of the on-time F&F process.
- Bigger organizations should have a proper HR System and check on details for SLA slipped cases to fine-tune the process.
- Most small-size organizations finish major formalities by the last day; only the F&F statement and Form 16 need to be sent on time.
- F&F will be stopped only in the case of an employee not completing exit formalities.
On a lighter side – If you ask the HR Head of any bigger organization where such a problem exists, the response could be...
“Ya, I understand. You know, my plate is filled with priorities, however, it's on my radar screen and we'll fix it fast.”
Cheers,
Pradeep
From India, Hyderabad
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Hi,
HR is the department that will be acting as the intermediary between the outgoing employee and the Finance Department. Generally, all finance departments will require all the necessary documentation, evidence, and approvals from the top management.
It is actually a mistake on the part of the top management to think along these lines: "WHEN WE SPEND LOTS OF MONEY TO ATTRACT AN EMPLOYEE, WHY ARE WE MAKING THEM SO UNHAPPY WHEN THEY LEAVE THE COMPANY."
Only the HR department is concerned about the above issue, not any other department. As an HR professional, we need to handle this situation very diplomatically as there is no other option. This is because Finance will say that we do not have proper approval, and therefore, we cannot communicate the same to the outgoing employee. It is a very sensitive issue.
Regards,
Srini
From India, Hyderabad
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HR is the department that will be acting as the intermediary between the outgoing employee and the Finance Department. Generally, all finance departments will require all the necessary documentation, evidence, and approvals from the top management.
It is actually a mistake on the part of the top management to think along these lines: "WHEN WE SPEND LOTS OF MONEY TO ATTRACT AN EMPLOYEE, WHY ARE WE MAKING THEM SO UNHAPPY WHEN THEY LEAVE THE COMPANY."
Only the HR department is concerned about the above issue, not any other department. As an HR professional, we need to handle this situation very diplomatically as there is no other option. This is because Finance will say that we do not have proper approval, and therefore, we cannot communicate the same to the outgoing employee. It is a very sensitive issue.
Regards,
Srini
From India, Hyderabad
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Dear,
He is so lucky at least he/she gets a salary every month. If you take a leading company like SUBHIKSHA, a retail chain group, even they won't give salaries and it is too much to expect F & F. Here we cannot say when we will give the salary. This company started 12 to 15 years back but is not streamlined. God only knows. One more big issue is when a candidate is selected, the company will offer a beautiful CTC, but the take-home salary will be very less. For example, our Manager A/c CTC is 5 lakhs, but his take-home is 17,548. Bonuses, LTA, Variable Pay, etc., are more. He has never received anything since 2 years. Recently, he left for another company. He faced a lot of problems while looking for a change. He was shortlisted in good companies, but after they saw his offer letter, every company doubted if it was a false experience. What do we have to say?
From India, Secunderabad
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He is so lucky at least he/she gets a salary every month. If you take a leading company like SUBHIKSHA, a retail chain group, even they won't give salaries and it is too much to expect F & F. Here we cannot say when we will give the salary. This company started 12 to 15 years back but is not streamlined. God only knows. One more big issue is when a candidate is selected, the company will offer a beautiful CTC, but the take-home salary will be very less. For example, our Manager A/c CTC is 5 lakhs, but his take-home is 17,548. Bonuses, LTA, Variable Pay, etc., are more. He has never received anything since 2 years. Recently, he left for another company. He faced a lot of problems while looking for a change. He was shortlisted in good companies, but after they saw his offer letter, every company doubted if it was a false experience. What do we have to say?
From India, Secunderabad
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Hi All,
I agree with Gopi fully. It's the responsibility of HR to get the F&F for the resigned employees even though finance will have to give. When a resigned employee has a bad experience with the company, they will not speak well about the company to others, potentially causing hesitation for their friends or others who are considering joining the company. This could lead to the company losing good candidates in the future.
Even if management is not happy or interested in the resigned employee, it is the duty of HR to explain to management the impacts, as HR serves as a bridge between management and the employees.
Please let me know if you have different views on this.
Thanks,
Priya
From Qatar
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I agree with Gopi fully. It's the responsibility of HR to get the F&F for the resigned employees even though finance will have to give. When a resigned employee has a bad experience with the company, they will not speak well about the company to others, potentially causing hesitation for their friends or others who are considering joining the company. This could lead to the company losing good candidates in the future.
Even if management is not happy or interested in the resigned employee, it is the duty of HR to explain to management the impacts, as HR serves as a bridge between management and the employees.
Please let me know if you have different views on this.
Thanks,
Priya
From Qatar
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If the employee resigns from the services of a company, we have to settle all the amounts that are eligible for him. We have to coordinate with the accounts department or finance department to settle their amount. It is the primary job for HR personnel. The employees resigned from the services due to various reasons. But remember the services they offered to the company. At least we will try to make them happy after their resignation.
MANOKAVIN
From India, Coimbatore
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MANOKAVIN
From India, Coimbatore
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Hi Friend,
I agree with your views, but you know every organization has the same policy. Sometimes HR operations are also involved because the employee who quits cannot directly talk to the CEO or CMD. They may have to visit multiple times, maybe 5 to 8 times. I am familiar with this process as well.
In fact, we...
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I agree with your views, but you know every organization has the same policy. Sometimes HR operations are also involved because the employee who quits cannot directly talk to the CEO or CMD. They may have to visit multiple times, maybe 5 to 8 times. I am familiar with this process as well.
In fact, we...
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Hi Fren,
I agree with your views, but you know each and every organization has the same policy. Yes, sometimes HR ops also get involved because the employee who quits cannot talk directly to the CEO or CMD. So, he has to visit almost 5-8 times. I know this process as well.
In fact, we never ask for the leaving policy. Just have the interview, qualify, and they'll give you an appointment letter, etc. Sign it and join the organization.
I feel that every company should produce the leaving policy separately, and even employees should ask about the policy, etc.
Regards,
Dilip
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I agree with your views, but you know each and every organization has the same policy. Yes, sometimes HR ops also get involved because the employee who quits cannot talk directly to the CEO or CMD. So, he has to visit almost 5-8 times. I know this process as well.
In fact, we never ask for the leaving policy. Just have the interview, qualify, and they'll give you an appointment letter, etc. Sign it and join the organization.
I feel that every company should produce the leaving policy separately, and even employees should ask about the policy, etc.
Regards,
Dilip
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Dear Ravi,
Hi, I was going through this session, it seems you had a bad experience with HR before, but it doesn't always happen. As a Senior Executive HR taking care of full and final and employee separation formalities, we in HR understand the importance. Whenever an employee leaves, they expect their HR clearance formalities to be done smoothly. Delays can occur due to various reasons:
1) If the person has not paid the notice period, and the full and final settlement comes out negative, we wait for the gratuity amount to come if the employee has completed five years or more.
2) Sometimes they do not submit Medical LTA bills on time. We follow up regularly even after the employee has left, asking for their bills. Even if we submit the full and final statement in accounts, there are certain obligations that need proper supporting documents to process further.
3) At times, we even deposit their cheques in their personal accounts.
4) Delays can also occur from both IT and the employees themselves when they do not provide the supporting documents for calculating their IT at the time of leaving. Providing relevant documents could help save on their tax amount.
There are many reasons for payment delays. As HR professionals, we should be sensitive to the fact that when someone leaves the organization, it should be on a positive note, and we should try to smoothen the process as quickly as possible.
Dear Friends,
I completely agree with Lalita. HR never intentionally delays the full and final settlement of anyone who has left the organization. There are many unavoidable reasons for delays, as mentioned by Lalita. I would like to add to the discussion:
In my company, we have employee-friendly policies in place. One of the separation policies is that the full and final working is shown to the resigning employee first, and after their consent, it is processed. Recently, an employee resigned 1 1/2 months ago and, as per the full and final working, has to repay around Rs. 2.5 lakhs to the company due to a loan availed from the company. We sent him the full and final working the day after his resignation, but he is deliberately delaying signing it and the payment. He is engaging in unnecessary correspondence and accusing the company of not settling his final dues. Regrettably, we may have to resort to legal action.
There are multiple factors contributing to delays in full and final settlements, and HR should not be solely blamed for such delays.
Best Regards,
DS
From Singapore, Singapore
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Hi, I was going through this session, it seems you had a bad experience with HR before, but it doesn't always happen. As a Senior Executive HR taking care of full and final and employee separation formalities, we in HR understand the importance. Whenever an employee leaves, they expect their HR clearance formalities to be done smoothly. Delays can occur due to various reasons:
1) If the person has not paid the notice period, and the full and final settlement comes out negative, we wait for the gratuity amount to come if the employee has completed five years or more.
2) Sometimes they do not submit Medical LTA bills on time. We follow up regularly even after the employee has left, asking for their bills. Even if we submit the full and final statement in accounts, there are certain obligations that need proper supporting documents to process further.
3) At times, we even deposit their cheques in their personal accounts.
4) Delays can also occur from both IT and the employees themselves when they do not provide the supporting documents for calculating their IT at the time of leaving. Providing relevant documents could help save on their tax amount.
There are many reasons for payment delays. As HR professionals, we should be sensitive to the fact that when someone leaves the organization, it should be on a positive note, and we should try to smoothen the process as quickly as possible.
Dear Friends,
I completely agree with Lalita. HR never intentionally delays the full and final settlement of anyone who has left the organization. There are many unavoidable reasons for delays, as mentioned by Lalita. I would like to add to the discussion:
In my company, we have employee-friendly policies in place. One of the separation policies is that the full and final working is shown to the resigning employee first, and after their consent, it is processed. Recently, an employee resigned 1 1/2 months ago and, as per the full and final working, has to repay around Rs. 2.5 lakhs to the company due to a loan availed from the company. We sent him the full and final working the day after his resignation, but he is deliberately delaying signing it and the payment. He is engaging in unnecessary correspondence and accusing the company of not settling his final dues. Regrettably, we may have to resort to legal action.
There are multiple factors contributing to delays in full and final settlements, and HR should not be solely blamed for such delays.
Best Regards,
DS
From Singapore, Singapore
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Hi all,
It all depends on how your managers define the ways for a smooth exit of the employee. Generally, managers try to delay the process with some reason in which HR could not do anything.
Still, HR is considered a support function and will continue to provide support to business people. Can you tell me a company where HR makes decisions independently? Somewhere they need to get approval from the business.
Thanks,
Manish
Recruitment
EDS India
From United States, Buffalo
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It all depends on how your managers define the ways for a smooth exit of the employee. Generally, managers try to delay the process with some reason in which HR could not do anything.
Still, HR is considered a support function and will continue to provide support to business people. Can you tell me a company where HR makes decisions independently? Somewhere they need to get approval from the business.
Thanks,
Manish
Recruitment
EDS India
From United States, Buffalo
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I have faced this issue as well... it is extremely demotivating and provokes employees to leave without a notice period
From India, Mumbai
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From India, Mumbai
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Well said. This is the problem which we also face in our company. All the companies try to adopt different measures to hire and retain the best talent, but they forget that if the employees will not have a happy exit, the employment cycle will break, and the companies will not get the best talent.
In my opinion, word-of-mouth publicity is the best tool in services. Keeping this in mind, if the companies will have good exit policies, this will surely help in creating a good image of the company.
Regards,
Shweta
From India, Delhi
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In my opinion, word-of-mouth publicity is the best tool in services. Keeping this in mind, if the companies will have good exit policies, this will surely help in creating a good image of the company.
Regards,
Shweta
From India, Delhi
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Hi,
In many cases, when the employees perform well, management ignores to recognize them. After a certain period, recognition becomes important for any employee. There is also a lot of partiality shown between employees at the same level. Many of them leave the company due to this. When employees leave the company, management tries to make up for that by giving them what they want. If they don't agree, management tries to delay the settlements in some cases.
Thank you.
From India, Bangalore
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In many cases, when the employees perform well, management ignores to recognize them. After a certain period, recognition becomes important for any employee. There is also a lot of partiality shown between employees at the same level. Many of them leave the company due to this. When employees leave the company, management tries to make up for that by giving them what they want. If they don't agree, management tries to delay the settlements in some cases.
Thank you.
From India, Bangalore
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)Let me limit myself and my thoughts to this discussion. What you always see is not what has actually happened. In case of employee exits, there are so many factors that affects the exit process. Some of the factors are:
1)The way of separation.
2)The longevity of the employee in that company. (If the person is separating from the company within a year or after serving for few years)
3)His level in the organization.
4)Performance of the person (if the person was a performer or a non-performer)
Etc and Etc
As far as re-employing the ex-employee is concerned, many companies have the policy to not to employee the ex-employee. So, that assumption is invalid and void.
As far as reference of the ex-employee is concerned; no company needs any referral from a person who has served the company for less than one year and has been fired (or asked to resign). Secondly, the HR Person will not stay in that company for his life. As you are moving for a growth, he too might move for a growth.
Hence, only those employees who has served the company for a period of time and those who are good performers get the good exit. Other are treated as if they were never existed.
Don’t get emotional. Be Practical.
Thanks and Regards
Sanjeev
From India, Mumbai
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I am a bit bewildered. It only shows that many of the HR professionals are yet to grow up! Let it be clear that such clever tricks never pay off in the long run. While a frustrated employee may stick around for some more time out of compulsion, it leaves a bad taste, and soon he would be carrying tales against the company, which is much more damaging in the long run.
There are few organizations, both in the private and public sectors, that are fair in all matters, and several others that are quite the contrary. If we take a critical look at their performance, it is evident that organizations treating employees fairly, right from induction to separation, retain talents and are spoken of well. I fail to understand how the retention of an unhappy employee is going to help ultimately.
Regards,
KK Nair
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There are few organizations, both in the private and public sectors, that are fair in all matters, and several others that are quite the contrary. If we take a critical look at their performance, it is evident that organizations treating employees fairly, right from induction to separation, retain talents and are spoken of well. I fail to understand how the retention of an unhappy employee is going to help ultimately.
Regards,
KK Nair
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I agree completely with your situation and thank you for bringing it up. There are various sides to the situation. Let's admit that yes, we in HR become callous towards the outgoing employee, even vindictive. Well, I think there are definite integrity issues that have to be addressed.
Forget about outgoing employees; even for incoming employees, a lot of things are 'projected' or 'marketed' quite differently from the reality within the company.
What do you think?
From India, Mumbai
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Forget about outgoing employees; even for incoming employees, a lot of things are 'projected' or 'marketed' quite differently from the reality within the company.
What do you think?
From India, Mumbai
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Usually, the departments within HR who handle F&F are short-staffed and always under pressure. They are also caught up with other statutory compliances. Staffing for this function is often neglected, which leads to high closure time.
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Yes, I agree that once the employee resigns from the organization, the HR - who is actually the management representative - presents/behaves in an unprofessional manner. The full and final settlement should be done on the given date and time, and the resigned employee should not be made to follow up for his own hard-earned money. Also, if we let the clearance take place without bothering the employee, chances are he may come back to us, making our own life a little easier. If not, he may refer someone, as he himself has a good notion/picture about the organization. This also is a way to create goodwill among the pool of employees available around. Besides the fact that these are people who could ruin our image in no time, as an HR, it will be difficult for us to hire. It's actually the culture of the organization which flows from top to bottom and is the primary responsibility of the senior management. Yes, as HR, you can also do your bit even if the management acts/behaves otherwise. Just my thoughts cordially, preet.
Hi, it's been a long time for me to post an article on the site, even though I have updated many things here.
Recently, one of our employees quit the company, and as per the company policy, he is supposed to get his F&F by the 21st day. Since our HR Operations in Bangalore, employees have to keep in touch with the Bangalore Office. As a location incharge, I followed up and got the news that the employee's cheque is ready.
This week on Monday, I received a mail from the location leader of our center stating that HR is not doing their duty, which really hurt me.
After the mail, I followed up again with the HR ops team and came to know that they would process the cheque only on that particular day.
After this incident, I updated our location leader, expressing my unhappiness about the incident.
This incident led us into a discussion of HR behavior towards outgoing or left employees. It seems that when an employee wants to quit the company, HR would negotiate with them and try to retain them in every possible way. But if the same employee is stubborn about quitting, the attitude of HR changes drastically, and they behave very harshly towards them.
They don't even bother to pay them on time and take their sweet time to complete the work, thinking that the employee wouldn't turn up.
I really supported his point and here, I try to supplement what he noted. From my experience, I have seen the same lethargy from my executives who were not even interested in closing this.
When an employee gives his resignation, we do everything to keep them, but why do we not bother about their settlements when they leave the company?
I would like to remind you that when we spend lots of money to attract an employee, why are we making them so unhappy when they leave the company?
I hope everyone in the forum accepts that all left employees are future prospects of our company.
When we want candidates to come and attend interviews happily and when we want our employees to be happy in the company, why do we not care about employees' happy exits?
If an employee leaves happily with HR, whatever the reason for his exit, I am sure he would come back to our company without any second thoughts if HR employees are good. This would also reduce a lot of recruitment costs.
I kindly request the HR team to treat outgoing employees with a more humane approach.
I welcome comments and suggestions.
Gopi.K
9952414092
From India, Bangalore
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Hi, it's been a long time for me to post an article on the site, even though I have updated many things here.
Recently, one of our employees quit the company, and as per the company policy, he is supposed to get his F&F by the 21st day. Since our HR Operations in Bangalore, employees have to keep in touch with the Bangalore Office. As a location incharge, I followed up and got the news that the employee's cheque is ready.
This week on Monday, I received a mail from the location leader of our center stating that HR is not doing their duty, which really hurt me.
After the mail, I followed up again with the HR ops team and came to know that they would process the cheque only on that particular day.
After this incident, I updated our location leader, expressing my unhappiness about the incident.
This incident led us into a discussion of HR behavior towards outgoing or left employees. It seems that when an employee wants to quit the company, HR would negotiate with them and try to retain them in every possible way. But if the same employee is stubborn about quitting, the attitude of HR changes drastically, and they behave very harshly towards them.
They don't even bother to pay them on time and take their sweet time to complete the work, thinking that the employee wouldn't turn up.
I really supported his point and here, I try to supplement what he noted. From my experience, I have seen the same lethargy from my executives who were not even interested in closing this.
When an employee gives his resignation, we do everything to keep them, but why do we not bother about their settlements when they leave the company?
I would like to remind you that when we spend lots of money to attract an employee, why are we making them so unhappy when they leave the company?
I hope everyone in the forum accepts that all left employees are future prospects of our company.
When we want candidates to come and attend interviews happily and when we want our employees to be happy in the company, why do we not care about employees' happy exits?
If an employee leaves happily with HR, whatever the reason for his exit, I am sure he would come back to our company without any second thoughts if HR employees are good. This would also reduce a lot of recruitment costs.
I kindly request the HR team to treat outgoing employees with a more humane approach.
I welcome comments and suggestions.
Gopi.K
9952414092
From India, Bangalore
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Hi All, I am really happy to recieve all your thoughts. Infact I have learnt lot from your thoughts. I think it is good brain strom session. Great. Keep sending your veiws on it Gopi.K 9952414092
From India, Chandigarh
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From India, Chandigarh
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Hi,
I do remember an instance of not being provided with the details of the final settlement statement by one of the leading pharma companies located in Ahmedabad when I resigned to join a leading PSU. The HR personnel of that company did not give any proper response to my request, even after I wrote to the top management. Despite all my efforts, they were futile, and I couldn't help but think of the effort and pain I took to serve the company. In the two departments where I worked, there were eight managers, and I was the only one at the junior level.
The attitudes of people towards those who resign need to change. There could be many reasons behind a person's decision to leave a company. Instead of analyzing the reasons, they are often treated as unwanted.
Regards,
Rony
From India, Ahmadabad
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I do remember an instance of not being provided with the details of the final settlement statement by one of the leading pharma companies located in Ahmedabad when I resigned to join a leading PSU. The HR personnel of that company did not give any proper response to my request, even after I wrote to the top management. Despite all my efforts, they were futile, and I couldn't help but think of the effort and pain I took to serve the company. In the two departments where I worked, there were eight managers, and I was the only one at the junior level.
The attitudes of people towards those who resign need to change. There could be many reasons behind a person's decision to leave a company. Instead of analyzing the reasons, they are often treated as unwanted.
Regards,
Rony
From India, Ahmadabad
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Guys, please note that in case any of you are facing problems where the company is not settling your account, I would always suggest you to keep an accepted copy of your resignation or, if possible, the relieving letter provided. Please try to determine under which jurisdiction of the Labor Court or Assistant Labor Commissioner it falls. Please send a written complaint to the Assistant Labor Commissioner along with the accepted copy of your resignation and try to gather as much evidence as possible for follow-up (everything in writing and no verbal communication). This alone would pose a threat to the company to take action or face legal consequences. They can be penalized for non-compliance with Labor Laws, so don't worry and stay calm.
From United Kingdom
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From United Kingdom
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Hi all,
Much has been said in the thread.
I understand that most of you are unhappy with the way an exiting employee is treated (especially with regards to the final settlement of the employee). I also understand that we as the HR fraternity do not want to be branded as the tough nuts for the organization.
However, I'd like all of you to think about one thing. Have you resigned from a job and have been treated unpleasantly? Most of us would reply in the positive for this. So the next thing we need to do is put down our thoughts on what hurt us the most. Once we have an answer to this, we should work towards not letting employees from within our organization undergo the same difficulties when they quit.
I do understand that we cannot hold exiting employees to their money, but we can definitely get the finance, payroll, or any other team to agree on a workable date and get them to meet the date to credit the F&F. In the meantime, it is up to us as the HR fraternity to communicate with the exiting employee. I have come across many situations where a simple call informing the employee where the settlement is held up really works. They definitely appreciate the fact that someone is concerned. The key is to communicate with the employee.
I am speaking here from the experience of having led the HR team for a BPO. I have handled smooth exits of employees from the TM level to senior VP level. I should mention here that at all levels, employees are reasonable human beings who would prefer reasoning over lame excuses. State the facts and they are more than willing to wait.
From United Arab Emirates, Dubai
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Much has been said in the thread.
I understand that most of you are unhappy with the way an exiting employee is treated (especially with regards to the final settlement of the employee). I also understand that we as the HR fraternity do not want to be branded as the tough nuts for the organization.
However, I'd like all of you to think about one thing. Have you resigned from a job and have been treated unpleasantly? Most of us would reply in the positive for this. So the next thing we need to do is put down our thoughts on what hurt us the most. Once we have an answer to this, we should work towards not letting employees from within our organization undergo the same difficulties when they quit.
I do understand that we cannot hold exiting employees to their money, but we can definitely get the finance, payroll, or any other team to agree on a workable date and get them to meet the date to credit the F&F. In the meantime, it is up to us as the HR fraternity to communicate with the exiting employee. I have come across many situations where a simple call informing the employee where the settlement is held up really works. They definitely appreciate the fact that someone is concerned. The key is to communicate with the employee.
I am speaking here from the experience of having led the HR team for a BPO. I have handled smooth exits of employees from the TM level to senior VP level. I should mention here that at all levels, employees are reasonable human beings who would prefer reasoning over lame excuses. State the facts and they are more than willing to wait.
From United Arab Emirates, Dubai
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Hi friends,
I caught on the discussion quite late, but then I totally agree with the views expressed by you, especially because I am myself suffering from this attitude of HR. I left my previous company 3 months ago, and despite my several follow-ups and calls, the HR has not given me a clear answer as to when I would be getting my F&F. Worse still, the concerned HR guy has now stopped taking my calls.
I just don't understand what their problem is and why they aren't coming forthwith on this. To top it all off, the company is one of the leading telecom companies that boasts of a culture which, as per them, none has. I could have understood if there had been an availability problem of the concerned for approval, but my friends in the company tell me that the HR guy has not even forwarded the proposal and the F&F clearance to finance, etc. Come to think of it, this happens to one of the better performers who was rated excellent by his boss.
Regards,
Ritesh Chandra.
From India, Mumbai
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I caught on the discussion quite late, but then I totally agree with the views expressed by you, especially because I am myself suffering from this attitude of HR. I left my previous company 3 months ago, and despite my several follow-ups and calls, the HR has not given me a clear answer as to when I would be getting my F&F. Worse still, the concerned HR guy has now stopped taking my calls.
I just don't understand what their problem is and why they aren't coming forthwith on this. To top it all off, the company is one of the leading telecom companies that boasts of a culture which, as per them, none has. I could have understood if there had been an availability problem of the concerned for approval, but my friends in the company tell me that the HR guy has not even forwarded the proposal and the F&F clearance to finance, etc. Come to think of it, this happens to one of the better performers who was rated excellent by his boss.
Regards,
Ritesh Chandra.
From India, Mumbai
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Dear All, I again would like to remaind you that the purpose of writing this article is just to give an insight and motive young HR to pull up thier socks for thier employees Thanks Gopik
From India, Chandigarh
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From India, Chandigarh
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Dear all,
I am in the field of FMCG manufacturing company handling logistics activities. I take care of commercial activities such as creating invoices, checking stock, following up on purchase orders, assisting with the purchase function when needed, and liaising with clients regarding courier and cargo matters.
My work experience includes 2 years as a medical representative (my first job), 2 years in the administrative department, and 6 years in commercial activities, purchasing, and storage management.
Due to family issues in the last 2 years, I had to take a break and stayed at home without any work. Recently, I joined an EMS company as a Supply Chain Coordinator, despite having an electronic background. I am content with this new opportunity as the company is new and has yet to commence sales activities. However, I am facing challenges due to the gap in my work history. I am struggling to recall some export-related rules and regulations. I am making an effort to stay updated by browsing commercial details daily to refresh my knowledge.
My main concern is that I feel I am lagging behind in today's competitive environment. The person I report to is of the same age, and I experience a sense of inferiority complex as in my previous roles, I reported to more senior individuals. I find it difficult to adjust to reporting to younger colleagues and sometimes have communication issues. I unintentionally come across as rude to them and treat some individuals as junior employees, even if they are not. I am aware that I possess more knowledge and experience than them, but my new role has led to me receiving different treatment. At times, I end up giving orders out of habit developed from my previous experiences.
I am seeking advice on how to address these challenges. I am considering enrolling in a course as a potential solution but am unsure of the right approach. Your suggestions and guidance would be greatly appreciated.
Please assist me.
Thanks & Regards,
simirali@yahoo.com
From India, Bangalore
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I am in the field of FMCG manufacturing company handling logistics activities. I take care of commercial activities such as creating invoices, checking stock, following up on purchase orders, assisting with the purchase function when needed, and liaising with clients regarding courier and cargo matters.
My work experience includes 2 years as a medical representative (my first job), 2 years in the administrative department, and 6 years in commercial activities, purchasing, and storage management.
Due to family issues in the last 2 years, I had to take a break and stayed at home without any work. Recently, I joined an EMS company as a Supply Chain Coordinator, despite having an electronic background. I am content with this new opportunity as the company is new and has yet to commence sales activities. However, I am facing challenges due to the gap in my work history. I am struggling to recall some export-related rules and regulations. I am making an effort to stay updated by browsing commercial details daily to refresh my knowledge.
My main concern is that I feel I am lagging behind in today's competitive environment. The person I report to is of the same age, and I experience a sense of inferiority complex as in my previous roles, I reported to more senior individuals. I find it difficult to adjust to reporting to younger colleagues and sometimes have communication issues. I unintentionally come across as rude to them and treat some individuals as junior employees, even if they are not. I am aware that I possess more knowledge and experience than them, but my new role has led to me receiving different treatment. At times, I end up giving orders out of habit developed from my previous experiences.
I am seeking advice on how to address these challenges. I am considering enrolling in a course as a potential solution but am unsure of the right approach. Your suggestions and guidance would be greatly appreciated.
Please assist me.
Thanks & Regards,
simirali@yahoo.com
From India, Bangalore
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Dear Gopi,
I would like to share a few things here:
In a company, HR is not the only person who decides on the employees who leave the organization; the management also plays a significant role. Moreover, it also depends on how the employee quits. For example, if they quit in the middle of a project or if they damage client relationships, etc.
In our company, we treat employees well. Even when we have to let them go due to performance reasons, we try to provide them with a resignation letter stating that they resigned voluntarily.
Thanks,
Viji
From India, Madras
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I would like to share a few things here:
In a company, HR is not the only person who decides on the employees who leave the organization; the management also plays a significant role. Moreover, it also depends on how the employee quits. For example, if they quit in the middle of a project or if they damage client relationships, etc.
In our company, we treat employees well. Even when we have to let them go due to performance reasons, we try to provide them with a resignation letter stating that they resigned voluntarily.
Thanks,
Viji
From India, Madras
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For those who feel that HR is delaying F&F purposely,
Most reputed companies have SLAs for giving out F&F. It means that HR must issue the F&F within that stipulated time (can even be 90 days for some PCMMi level 5 companies). Most employees don't know about this and they demand F&F with a preset notion that HR is purposely delaying it.
Kindly note that HR needs to depend on a lot of other parallel functions to get an F&F cleared. Most of the companies have very stringent processes, and HR needs support and clarity from other dependent departments.
Moreover, smooth exit and F&F will depend a lot on the nature of employee separation. If the exit is clean and the rapport is good, things will move very easily. It is highly unprofessional to harass an employee during his/her exit, but unfortunately, there are very few professionals in the industry. We all are human beings and would naturally tend to err!!! So my advice to all - It is better to build some good on-the-job relationships within the organization so that it may come in handy during the exit..
Thanks & Regards
From India, Kochi
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Most reputed companies have SLAs for giving out F&F. It means that HR must issue the F&F within that stipulated time (can even be 90 days for some PCMMi level 5 companies). Most employees don't know about this and they demand F&F with a preset notion that HR is purposely delaying it.
Kindly note that HR needs to depend on a lot of other parallel functions to get an F&F cleared. Most of the companies have very stringent processes, and HR needs support and clarity from other dependent departments.
Moreover, smooth exit and F&F will depend a lot on the nature of employee separation. If the exit is clean and the rapport is good, things will move very easily. It is highly unprofessional to harass an employee during his/her exit, but unfortunately, there are very few professionals in the industry. We all are human beings and would naturally tend to err!!! So my advice to all - It is better to build some good on-the-job relationships within the organization so that it may come in handy during the exit..
Thanks & Regards
From India, Kochi
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Hi All,
I believe the exit process needs to be handled more sensitively by us. Large organizations have defined processes and SLAs with an HR team handling only exit processes. In such cases, the delays may be reduced comparatively. Still, the most important thing is our attitude towards the exiting employee, regardless of the kind of exit; we need to do justice to our profession.
Most organizations have a skewed Employee to HR ratio, thus the HR team is always in the line of fire. In small to mid-size organizations, the HR contact is a one-man/2-man army. When they prioritize their tasks, exit processes are low on priority simply because they are pressured for replacements/recruitments, thereby making them bitter in some cases. Being overworked and not appreciated for their work makes them rude at times. Thus, the outgoing employees may face certain hardships.
There are numerous factors/departments involved in the process, and yes, at times, delays are inevitable. During such times, all that is required is a mode of communicating these delays to the exiting employee through a mail or a phone call. It goes a long way in building a positive image for the company. A disgruntled employee would badmouth the company, ultimately causing more damage.
Also, we need to understand that we never know when we may cross paths again with these individuals. They could come back to you, or in case you move on, you could run into them again. It is always nice to have a positive track record. This positive image and attitude will take you a long way.
The world is such a small place. Sharing my own experience: I am still in touch with ex-employees (not from HR) from my previous organizations; they would still call me if they need advice on any HR issue. As HR professionals, we need to build bridges; these small tools help us in the long run.
Regards,
Preeti
From India, Pune
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I believe the exit process needs to be handled more sensitively by us. Large organizations have defined processes and SLAs with an HR team handling only exit processes. In such cases, the delays may be reduced comparatively. Still, the most important thing is our attitude towards the exiting employee, regardless of the kind of exit; we need to do justice to our profession.
Most organizations have a skewed Employee to HR ratio, thus the HR team is always in the line of fire. In small to mid-size organizations, the HR contact is a one-man/2-man army. When they prioritize their tasks, exit processes are low on priority simply because they are pressured for replacements/recruitments, thereby making them bitter in some cases. Being overworked and not appreciated for their work makes them rude at times. Thus, the outgoing employees may face certain hardships.
There are numerous factors/departments involved in the process, and yes, at times, delays are inevitable. During such times, all that is required is a mode of communicating these delays to the exiting employee through a mail or a phone call. It goes a long way in building a positive image for the company. A disgruntled employee would badmouth the company, ultimately causing more damage.
Also, we need to understand that we never know when we may cross paths again with these individuals. They could come back to you, or in case you move on, you could run into them again. It is always nice to have a positive track record. This positive image and attitude will take you a long way.
The world is such a small place. Sharing my own experience: I am still in touch with ex-employees (not from HR) from my previous organizations; they would still call me if they need advice on any HR issue. As HR professionals, we need to build bridges; these small tools help us in the long run.
Regards,
Preeti
From India, Pune
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Hi folks,
In some cases, finance people think that they are the bosses and that they are generating money for the company, leading the company because they deal with money. However, when HR sends the F & F clearance request to Finance, they feel like they are paying from their own pocket and further delay it by citing reasons such as "out of budget" or "waiting for funds to flow."
Regards,
Vamsi
From India, Hyderabad
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In some cases, finance people think that they are the bosses and that they are generating money for the company, leading the company because they deal with money. However, when HR sends the F & F clearance request to Finance, they feel like they are paying from their own pocket and further delay it by citing reasons such as "out of budget" or "waiting for funds to flow."
Regards,
Vamsi
From India, Hyderabad
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