Dear Seniors,
I have a few complicated questions to ask you all.
1) In a private limited company, the top management has not given an increment for the past 3 years. Even for the current year, there has been no increment, despite the company having a good profit level. Although the management is unwilling to provide an increment, in this situation, where should the laborers and employees of that company approach to receive an increment? Perhaps the Labor Inspector or somewhere else? What are the legal steps to take to receive an increment?
2) Regarding the above issue, some senior employees have decided to resign from their jobs. Due to unemployment, the management believes that there are many job seekers in our society and is prepared to replace the senior employees with new ones. Is the management's decision correct? Will the management also postpone increments for the new employees?
3) If a person has been contributing to ESI for the past 2 years, resigns from that job, and joins somewhere else where the new company does not include PF and ESI benefits, working there for the past 10 months, can they still enjoy ESI benefits? If yes, what should the employee do? Is there an annual subscription fee?
4) The same company is reluctant to provide training and orientation to all workers and employees because the management is unwilling to spend on training programs. How much would the quality of work increase if training were provided?
Please provide guidance on the above issues.
Thanks,
From India, Chennai
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8I have a few complicated questions to ask you all.
1) In a private limited company, the top management has not given an increment for the past 3 years. Even for the current year, there has been no increment, despite the company having a good profit level. Although the management is unwilling to provide an increment, in this situation, where should the laborers and employees of that company approach to receive an increment? Perhaps the Labor Inspector or somewhere else? What are the legal steps to take to receive an increment?
2) Regarding the above issue, some senior employees have decided to resign from their jobs. Due to unemployment, the management believes that there are many job seekers in our society and is prepared to replace the senior employees with new ones. Is the management's decision correct? Will the management also postpone increments for the new employees?
3) If a person has been contributing to ESI for the past 2 years, resigns from that job, and joins somewhere else where the new company does not include PF and ESI benefits, working there for the past 10 months, can they still enjoy ESI benefits? If yes, what should the employee do? Is there an annual subscription fee?
4) The same company is reluctant to provide training and orientation to all workers and employees because the management is unwilling to spend on training programs. How much would the quality of work increase if training were provided?
Please provide guidance on the above issues.
Thanks,
From India, Chennai
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"What are the legal things to do to receive an increment?
You can only press the management to revise pay scales. As HR, put up a study on pay scales in the same industry and attrition rates of your company vs. similar companies and the ill effects. But if management is adamant, then persuasion will have a limited effect.
"Due to Unemployment, Management thinks that there are a lot of job seekers out there in our society. They are ready to replace senior employees with new employees." The perception that job seekers are plentiful may be correct to some extent, but it reflects poor management by the owners. Even for a peon's job in a government office, lakhs of applications are received. The issue is that your management is self-centered and does not care too much for employees. Their approach seems to be "one will go, ten more candidates will come." They appear to be very poor employers, and you may want to explore other job opportunities."
From India, Pune
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You can only press the management to revise pay scales. As HR, put up a study on pay scales in the same industry and attrition rates of your company vs. similar companies and the ill effects. But if management is adamant, then persuasion will have a limited effect.
"Due to Unemployment, Management thinks that there are a lot of job seekers out there in our society. They are ready to replace senior employees with new employees." The perception that job seekers are plentiful may be correct to some extent, but it reflects poor management by the owners. Even for a peon's job in a government office, lakhs of applications are received. The issue is that your management is self-centered and does not care too much for employees. Their approach seems to be "one will go, ten more candidates will come." They appear to be very poor employers, and you may want to explore other job opportunities."
From India, Pune
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Your situation appears a little difficult to believe, but as you have been raising the issues now repeatedly, our sympathies are with you.
To answer you:
1. Though an increment is not a legal right conferred by any statute, there is a legitimate expectation, particularly since the unit is doing reasonably well, as we understand from your query. In this situation, a demand could be raised by the union or even individual workmen collectively by way of notice of change with a copy to the Labor Officer to bring the management to the negotiating table. The management's perception that even if the senior workers leave the company, they will be able to manage with fresh and raw hands is foolhardy, as the quality of workmanship and the overall morale would be seriously impaired in the process.
2. Management is certainly wrong in denying the workers their due by exploiting the labor market.
3. The ESI coverage will last until the benefit period corresponding to the last contribution period in which you have contributed gets over. If the new company is not under PF/ESI, then the coverage will not get extended there. As these benefits are tied up with the establishment one works for, the individual workman does not have any role in continuing to avail the benefits of the scheme.
4. We agree with your proposition that training is needed and will help improve the quality of work. If these simple axioms fail to impress your management, probably certain worst lessons will teach them so, and the day may not be very far off.
Ranjeetha, we empathize with your rather pathetic situation, but it appears clear that this is not the right place to continue your career.
From India, Mumbai
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To answer you:
1. Though an increment is not a legal right conferred by any statute, there is a legitimate expectation, particularly since the unit is doing reasonably well, as we understand from your query. In this situation, a demand could be raised by the union or even individual workmen collectively by way of notice of change with a copy to the Labor Officer to bring the management to the negotiating table. The management's perception that even if the senior workers leave the company, they will be able to manage with fresh and raw hands is foolhardy, as the quality of workmanship and the overall morale would be seriously impaired in the process.
2. Management is certainly wrong in denying the workers their due by exploiting the labor market.
3. The ESI coverage will last until the benefit period corresponding to the last contribution period in which you have contributed gets over. If the new company is not under PF/ESI, then the coverage will not get extended there. As these benefits are tied up with the establishment one works for, the individual workman does not have any role in continuing to avail the benefits of the scheme.
4. We agree with your proposition that training is needed and will help improve the quality of work. If these simple axioms fail to impress your management, probably certain worst lessons will teach them so, and the day may not be very far off.
Ranjeetha, we empathize with your rather pathetic situation, but it appears clear that this is not the right place to continue your career.
From India, Mumbai
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Giving increments to employees is neither a legal requirement nor a favor to employees by the employer. The management provides increments in a market-driven economy to retain the good employees who are adding value to the company. If the management is achieving the same results by hiring new and untrained employees, it should be a point of consideration for existing senior employees.
From India, Delhi
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From India, Delhi
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Your questions 1, 2 & 3 have been adequately answered by learned seniors above. I have nothing to add further thereon. I only alert you to the fact that the top management's understanding of the value of talent is abysmally poor. If it believes that it can run its business competitively by replacing skilled senior workforce with raw and inadequately skilled juniors to save costs of salary hikes, then like a rolling stone, it will never gather moss. Its loss of its skilled workforce may be its competitors' gain. The markets work like this.
So far as training is concerned, it will definitely upskill the employees and enhance their productivity, but your management may ask you "what if you train them and they leave?" So, be prepared with a reply for it.
B. Saikumar
HR & Labour Relations Advisor
Navi Mumbai
From India, Mumbai
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So far as training is concerned, it will definitely upskill the employees and enhance their productivity, but your management may ask you "what if you train them and they leave?" So, be prepared with a reply for it.
B. Saikumar
HR & Labour Relations Advisor
Navi Mumbai
From India, Mumbai
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Dear Seniors,
Please guide me for my 3rd question.
3) If a person has been contributing to ESI for the past 2 years, and then resigns from that job to join somewhere new where the company does not include PF and ESI benefits, can they still enjoy ESI benefits after working in the new company for the past 10 months? If yes, what should the employee do from their side? Is there any annual subscription fee?
Thanks.
From India, Chennai
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Please guide me for my 3rd question.
3) If a person has been contributing to ESI for the past 2 years, and then resigns from that job to join somewhere new where the company does not include PF and ESI benefits, can they still enjoy ESI benefits after working in the new company for the past 10 months? If yes, what should the employee do from their side? Is there any annual subscription fee?
Thanks.
From India, Chennai
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In my view, the ESI Act does not provide for carrying forward ESI coverage of an employee from former employment to a new company not covered by ESI, as ESI benefits are linked to an establishment's coverage under the Act.
Other views are welcome.
B. Saikumar
HR & Labour Relations Advisor
Navi Mumbai
From India, Mumbai
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Other views are welcome.
B. Saikumar
HR & Labour Relations Advisor
Navi Mumbai
From India, Mumbai
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Dear Ranjeetha,
Your query no. 03 on ESI coverage has been answered well by KK!HR. The contributory period is taken into consideration for availing the facilities even after losing or leaving such a job with ESI coverage. There is no subscription fee for such continuation.
Thank you.
From India, Hyderabad
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Your query no. 03 on ESI coverage has been answered well by KK!HR. The contributory period is taken into consideration for availing the facilities even after losing or leaving such a job with ESI coverage. There is no subscription fee for such continuation.
Thank you.
From India, Hyderabad
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I don't recommend this to you. But sometimes, in this situation, the senior managers have to push the company head. Reach out to them and ask for a meeting as it might work.
In another scenario, as per the railway regulations, they will only address the issue if they receive a letter with up to 25 signatures requesting something to be taken care of.
I hope you understand how to solve this.
From India, Hyderabad
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In another scenario, as per the railway regulations, they will only address the issue if they receive a letter with up to 25 signatures requesting something to be taken care of.
I hope you understand how to solve this.
From India, Hyderabad
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Dear Sir,
Our Senior HR Manager has spoken with the management many times, but management is not ready to increase the salary limit for workers and employees in this company. They are mainly focusing on production and profit. In this situation, what should I do? What is your opinion on this matter? What will be the outcome of such activities?
Should I continue to work for this company or would it be better for me to leave? I am seeking your opinion based on your experience.
Thank you.
From India, Chennai
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Our Senior HR Manager has spoken with the management many times, but management is not ready to increase the salary limit for workers and employees in this company. They are mainly focusing on production and profit. In this situation, what should I do? What is your opinion on this matter? What will be the outcome of such activities?
Should I continue to work for this company or would it be better for me to leave? I am seeking your opinion based on your experience.
Thank you.
From India, Chennai
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