Hi all,
There is a guy in our office who seems to always be on tours or undergoing training. When in the office, he hardly works and spends time chit-chatting with the bosses. Still, he is the only one who never got dropped for a promotion.
What is his contribution to the organization? How is he more competent than others who are slogging it out all the time? Others stay back till 7 and come on weekends too. But this guy seems to have all the fun and get paid for it too.
Still another case is where a senior manager went to the US on leave, joined a job there for 1 year, and came back to our PSU and got a promotion. While on the other hand, a guy in his batch who stayed back and worked hard never got a promotion.
Is it really about networking and having higher up contacts?
Another case is wherein two batch mates were due for promotion - both ladies - the one who got dropped was the one who had taken maternity leave during this time. Is it justified? What if her work contribution was more?
How should I ensure that I get regular promotions?
From India, Delhi
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2There is a guy in our office who seems to always be on tours or undergoing training. When in the office, he hardly works and spends time chit-chatting with the bosses. Still, he is the only one who never got dropped for a promotion.
What is his contribution to the organization? How is he more competent than others who are slogging it out all the time? Others stay back till 7 and come on weekends too. But this guy seems to have all the fun and get paid for it too.
Still another case is where a senior manager went to the US on leave, joined a job there for 1 year, and came back to our PSU and got a promotion. While on the other hand, a guy in his batch who stayed back and worked hard never got a promotion.
Is it really about networking and having higher up contacts?
Another case is wherein two batch mates were due for promotion - both ladies - the one who got dropped was the one who had taken maternity leave during this time. Is it justified? What if her work contribution was more?
How should I ensure that I get regular promotions?
From India, Delhi
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Irrespective of whether you work for a PSU or a private organization, it's all about whether your face fits in, whether you are in the good books of the bosses, and what connections you have.
Regarding the case of the person who went to the States, he got exposed to a different culture; more exposure helps. The same happens in MNCs: when a person gets wider exposure, they are more likely to get promoted.
From United Kingdom
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Regarding the case of the person who went to the States, he got exposed to a different culture; more exposure helps. The same happens in MNCs: when a person gets wider exposure, they are more likely to get promoted.
From United Kingdom
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Hello,
I think what was explained was the harsh reality!
As an individual, especially at lower rungs of the hierarchy, one is not expected to be a custodian of the organization's morality, ethics, or management culture. As one walks, one comes across many obstacles on the path to his objectives. One has to tackle them, circumvent or overcome, and keep up efforts towards the achievement of objectives. Whether in this process to opt for shortcuts, unethical practices, and to go with the flow (like others do!) is strictly one's personal choice and depends upon his own ethics, values, and morality (in short, his formative influences or "sanskaars" and what one has done with them in his years!)
Even if you follow such a path, I do not believe that favorable results are guaranteed! Further, we do not know enough about the methods these people use because what is not seen in such cases is far too important than what is seen!
My recommendation to your focused question is to follow your mind and since this question suggests that you do not approve of methods of people and organizations you report and are a values-oriented person, let MERITS be your guiding light! You may not win in the short run, eventually you will, and that is the price all value-oriented people have to pay in this world!
Further, stop comparing yourself with WRONG examples and invite only stress for yourself. You are unique, you are on your own, and you do not have to "follow" some methods that you do not approve of!
This long answer may provide an answer to your short but pertinent question.
If you need to interact further, welcome!
Cheer up!
Regards
Samvedan
July 29, 2012
From India, Pune
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I think what was explained was the harsh reality!
As an individual, especially at lower rungs of the hierarchy, one is not expected to be a custodian of the organization's morality, ethics, or management culture. As one walks, one comes across many obstacles on the path to his objectives. One has to tackle them, circumvent or overcome, and keep up efforts towards the achievement of objectives. Whether in this process to opt for shortcuts, unethical practices, and to go with the flow (like others do!) is strictly one's personal choice and depends upon his own ethics, values, and morality (in short, his formative influences or "sanskaars" and what one has done with them in his years!)
Even if you follow such a path, I do not believe that favorable results are guaranteed! Further, we do not know enough about the methods these people use because what is not seen in such cases is far too important than what is seen!
My recommendation to your focused question is to follow your mind and since this question suggests that you do not approve of methods of people and organizations you report and are a values-oriented person, let MERITS be your guiding light! You may not win in the short run, eventually you will, and that is the price all value-oriented people have to pay in this world!
Further, stop comparing yourself with WRONG examples and invite only stress for yourself. You are unique, you are on your own, and you do not have to "follow" some methods that you do not approve of!
This long answer may provide an answer to your short but pertinent question.
If you need to interact further, welcome!
Cheer up!
Regards
Samvedan
July 29, 2012
From India, Pune
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Dear Rupali,
This is in addition to what Mr. Simhan and Samvedan have said.
Problems of this kind arise when measures of performance are not defined. In Public Sector Undertakings (PSUs), Performance Appraisal (PA) is based on subjective attributes like honesty, integrity, etc., and not on measurable factors.
PSUs or Government offices are still following the methods of the British era. They are yet to come to terms with the 21st century.
The gentleman in this case keeps on attending the training because he is not made accountable for the implementation of the learning. What was increased or decreased by the implementation of the learning? No audit is done. The training department has certain funds, and they are accountable to exhaust these funds and nothing beyond that.
Nothing can be done in this case. The change has to come from the top. To make the bureaucracy accountable, the government has to free bureaucracy from its clutches. But whether this will ever happen is a matter of surmise!
Dinesh V Divekar
From India, Bangalore
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This is in addition to what Mr. Simhan and Samvedan have said.
Problems of this kind arise when measures of performance are not defined. In Public Sector Undertakings (PSUs), Performance Appraisal (PA) is based on subjective attributes like honesty, integrity, etc., and not on measurable factors.
PSUs or Government offices are still following the methods of the British era. They are yet to come to terms with the 21st century.
The gentleman in this case keeps on attending the training because he is not made accountable for the implementation of the learning. What was increased or decreased by the implementation of the learning? No audit is done. The training department has certain funds, and they are accountable to exhaust these funds and nothing beyond that.
Nothing can be done in this case. The change has to come from the top. To make the bureaucracy accountable, the government has to free bureaucracy from its clutches. But whether this will ever happen is a matter of surmise!
Dinesh V Divekar
From India, Bangalore
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Rupali,
What the guy is doing is clearly unethical and illegal.
Commercial and business organizations are oligarchies. They are not democracies. Their motto is: oppress the poor, pamper the few murderers & rapists at the top.
The business owners also don't want these murderers & rapists at the top, but they have to live with them if they want to sustain their rulership. That's a characteristic of all rulerships.
If someone in the ranks and file were doing the same thing, he'd either be fired as soon as his behavior was brought to notice, or he'd be promoted, depending on how he handled the interview/confrontation with the adjudicatory panel.
The world is a shithole. We are a wild species, no different from any other. In this world, as Sir Charles Darwin wrote in his epic "On the Origin of Species By Means of Natural Selection Or The Preservation of Favoured Races In The Struggle For Life," in here also, the strongest, meaning the most impervious to atrocities and the bravest, will survive.
If you need to climb up the corporate ladder (and I'd say you'd be barking up the wrong tree. If you're still young and you've got some financial support, get out of it as soon as possible and start something of your own, something you love doing), then you need to develop:
1) Emotional Intelligence
2) Leadership skills
3) Salesmanship and People skills
In short, read books on selling, schmoozing people, getting work done out of others, etc.
For starters, follow these tips: 10 Tips For Success At Business Meetings
From India, Ghaziabad
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What the guy is doing is clearly unethical and illegal.
Commercial and business organizations are oligarchies. They are not democracies. Their motto is: oppress the poor, pamper the few murderers & rapists at the top.
The business owners also don't want these murderers & rapists at the top, but they have to live with them if they want to sustain their rulership. That's a characteristic of all rulerships.
If someone in the ranks and file were doing the same thing, he'd either be fired as soon as his behavior was brought to notice, or he'd be promoted, depending on how he handled the interview/confrontation with the adjudicatory panel.
The world is a shithole. We are a wild species, no different from any other. In this world, as Sir Charles Darwin wrote in his epic "On the Origin of Species By Means of Natural Selection Or The Preservation of Favoured Races In The Struggle For Life," in here also, the strongest, meaning the most impervious to atrocities and the bravest, will survive.
If you need to climb up the corporate ladder (and I'd say you'd be barking up the wrong tree. If you're still young and you've got some financial support, get out of it as soon as possible and start something of your own, something you love doing), then you need to develop:
1) Emotional Intelligence
2) Leadership skills
3) Salesmanship and People skills
In short, read books on selling, schmoozing people, getting work done out of others, etc.
For starters, follow these tips: 10 Tips For Success At Business Meetings
From India, Ghaziabad
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Dear Rupali,
As I seemed to have responded to your earlier queries, I checked CiteHR and found two other threads started by you. They are at https://www.citehr.com/418604-how-ki...ml#post1896425 and https://www.citehr.com/418455-no-tra...ce-1-year.html.
I was rather surprised to find that you have copied and pasted a portion of my message (including a typo) in one of your responses. We are not privy to what goes on in your organization. Do you know what the person who goes on tour does when he is there and what training courses he attends? Are you also willing to go on tour like him?
From your other posts, I gather that you do not enjoy developing software like your husband, and you would like to do something other than watch TV. Kindly tell us how satisfying your work is. Do you have enough work to keep you busy? The reason I ask that question is that most PSUs are overstaffed. My friend, who worked for a local authority, tells me that even if the organization had reduced staff by 50%, they would still not have much work to do after retiring.
Perhaps you are in the wrong job, and you have lost the motivation to progress, or family ties prevent you from going on tours, which may be necessary for promotion. If you provide more details about the nature of your work at your PSU, we will be able to give you some advice.
From United Kingdom
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As I seemed to have responded to your earlier queries, I checked CiteHR and found two other threads started by you. They are at https://www.citehr.com/418604-how-ki...ml#post1896425 and https://www.citehr.com/418455-no-tra...ce-1-year.html.
I was rather surprised to find that you have copied and pasted a portion of my message (including a typo) in one of your responses. We are not privy to what goes on in your organization. Do you know what the person who goes on tour does when he is there and what training courses he attends? Are you also willing to go on tour like him?
From your other posts, I gather that you do not enjoy developing software like your husband, and you would like to do something other than watch TV. Kindly tell us how satisfying your work is. Do you have enough work to keep you busy? The reason I ask that question is that most PSUs are overstaffed. My friend, who worked for a local authority, tells me that even if the organization had reduced staff by 50%, they would still not have much work to do after retiring.
Perhaps you are in the wrong job, and you have lost the motivation to progress, or family ties prevent you from going on tours, which may be necessary for promotion. If you provide more details about the nature of your work at your PSU, we will be able to give you some advice.
From United Kingdom
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Dear Rupali,
According to me, making right contacts with the right people always helps a lot in your career. You should not only have good relations with your boss or seniors but also with your clients and other people you have to work with. I have many friends who have gotten their promotions only because they were sweet with their clients and had contacts. Remember, getting a job done becomes much easier when you have good contacts and know people who can help you with the given task. Remember, companies don't need only hard workers; they need smart workers who can get the job done. And the job can be done easily only if you have good contacts.
From India, Pune
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According to me, making right contacts with the right people always helps a lot in your career. You should not only have good relations with your boss or seniors but also with your clients and other people you have to work with. I have many friends who have gotten their promotions only because they were sweet with their clients and had contacts. Remember, getting a job done becomes much easier when you have good contacts and know people who can help you with the given task. Remember, companies don't need only hard workers; they need smart workers who can get the job done. And the job can be done easily only if you have good contacts.
From India, Pune
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Thank you, everyone, for all your kind words. A bad boss is the only problem I have. Otherwise, the work nature and office environment are all cool. Touchwood. I read in TOI Ascent once that in the private sector, people resign from their jobs citing "personal problems," when in reality, their problem is their boss. It's really hard coping with a boss like this.
From India, Delhi
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From India, Delhi
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Dear Rupali,
Please watch Swami Parthasarathy - Happiness Within - YouTube. It will highlight that the boss whom you dislike or can't work with is liked by some. So, our happiness depends on how we react to a situation. I know that it is easier to preach than to practice.
From United Kingdom
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Please watch Swami Parthasarathy - Happiness Within - YouTube. It will highlight that the boss whom you dislike or can't work with is liked by some. So, our happiness depends on how we react to a situation. I know that it is easier to preach than to practice.
From United Kingdom
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Thank you, Aakriti, for your beautiful insight. Even I was well-behaved in the beginning, but the person is really whimsical and unreasonable.
He would call us employees to the office on Sundays when he would come clad in his multi-coloured T-shirts :D :D :D and tell us his wife and life's stories. We only smiled listening to him. If he is so fond of his wife, why is he not devoting the Sunday to her and passing time with us poor juniors? He would offer tea, and I said, "No, sir, I don't take tea and biscuits." Then he said, "Your husband is really lucky - saving a lot of his money." We are supposed to smile/laugh at his every "unique" observation.
He would call us all for a meeting and then waste time over the phone talking to arbitrary people in his native language and laugh loudly. We all had no option but to sit quietly for 1-2 hours.
He once even told my junior guy to come to the office on Sunday just to give company to another person who was working that day because my junior lives close to our office. Is this reasonable/acceptable behavior?
A hefty Punjabi guy got transferred to our office recently, and he comes to the office at 10:35-10:40 am - can you believe that? Our office timing is 9:30 am. But my boss is scared to scold him. Only once he softly pointed this out to him, that too in his cabin!
If any other person is late, he yells at him/her right in front of the entire office.
He only picks on the really well-behaved and hard-working ones.
I asked him to nominate me for any 1 out of 3 training schedules taking place in our city, to which he smiled broadly, saying, "It's good you are taking the initiative," but no, he did not nominate me for any training. My last training was in June 2011. He joined our office in July 2011 after coming on transfer from the corporate office. Everything went topsy-turvy after that.
I went to Vigilance and Hindi Training and won 1st prizes prior to his arrival in this office, to which he says, "Arre ye toh bakwaas training hain."
He himself is not even able to pronounce the word "paper" :D :D :D, but he makes fun of the Odisha site office people's accent. Racist guy, really. He talks rubbish. He once made an issue out of the word "manpower" written in a note by a site office person, saying, "Arre, these site office people are really sick... (actually their English is poor)." Really disgusting man... I wish nobody ever gets a boss like this one.
I have applied for a transfer since December. Let's see what happens. My husband jokes, "What if the new boss is worse than this one?" :D
From India, Delhi
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He would call us employees to the office on Sundays when he would come clad in his multi-coloured T-shirts :D :D :D and tell us his wife and life's stories. We only smiled listening to him. If he is so fond of his wife, why is he not devoting the Sunday to her and passing time with us poor juniors? He would offer tea, and I said, "No, sir, I don't take tea and biscuits." Then he said, "Your husband is really lucky - saving a lot of his money." We are supposed to smile/laugh at his every "unique" observation.
He would call us all for a meeting and then waste time over the phone talking to arbitrary people in his native language and laugh loudly. We all had no option but to sit quietly for 1-2 hours.
He once even told my junior guy to come to the office on Sunday just to give company to another person who was working that day because my junior lives close to our office. Is this reasonable/acceptable behavior?
A hefty Punjabi guy got transferred to our office recently, and he comes to the office at 10:35-10:40 am - can you believe that? Our office timing is 9:30 am. But my boss is scared to scold him. Only once he softly pointed this out to him, that too in his cabin!
If any other person is late, he yells at him/her right in front of the entire office.
He only picks on the really well-behaved and hard-working ones.
I asked him to nominate me for any 1 out of 3 training schedules taking place in our city, to which he smiled broadly, saying, "It's good you are taking the initiative," but no, he did not nominate me for any training. My last training was in June 2011. He joined our office in July 2011 after coming on transfer from the corporate office. Everything went topsy-turvy after that.
I went to Vigilance and Hindi Training and won 1st prizes prior to his arrival in this office, to which he says, "Arre ye toh bakwaas training hain."
He himself is not even able to pronounce the word "paper" :D :D :D, but he makes fun of the Odisha site office people's accent. Racist guy, really. He talks rubbish. He once made an issue out of the word "manpower" written in a note by a site office person, saying, "Arre, these site office people are really sick... (actually their English is poor)." Really disgusting man... I wish nobody ever gets a boss like this one.
I have applied for a transfer since December. Let's see what happens. My husband jokes, "What if the new boss is worse than this one?" :D
From India, Delhi
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