Hello Nikhil S. Gurjar,
To answer your query: Taj, the 'what others don't know' syndrome is different from wrong decisions... Did I misinterpret?......
The answer is BOTH YES & NO. When I say 'what others don't know', please note that I am making an 'assumption'—I may be wrong or right...depending on how well I know the person(s) I am including in the sub-set "others". If I don't know them well [maybe just acquaintances], then the assumption I make COULD obviously be a 'wrong decision' too [since it's coming from my half-baked knowledge database], in addition to the 'ego' factor [if I didn't have any ego to begin with, I wouldn't attempt to make such assumptions at all...right?].
So what we 'are' depends a lot on the circumstances we are in at that point in time—and what we do depends on what we inherently 'are'.
A common analogy I use is: Everyone, right from childhood, says—always speak the truth. But how many ACTUALLY FOLLOW IT when faced with a situation where they have TWO choices: to speak a lie or bluff to get over with an inconvenient/uncomfortable situation OR speak the truth & face the consequences, whatever they might be? Or like the Master @ handling such tricky situations—Krishna—does: neither speaking a lie NOR telling the truth that puts me in trouble? The situation brings out the BEST & WORST in people—for all to see many times.
Regarding your understanding of the point of Dr. Ulhas: "has raised an interesting point. If the person is not making wrong decisions, you would probably call them strong views?"... I think the meaning is different.
Another analogy to clarify this point: I have very strong views about ethics in the HR area. Now, if I were to ask a politician or someone who is used to dealing with government officials regularly, he/she would say—I am wrong. For that person, the REFERENCE POINT/PERCEPTION is: whether the work is done or not. So if the work is done, then I am right—IRRESPECTIVE of the modus operandi adopted. But from my perspective, the REFERENCE POINT is on 'HOW' the work was done & NOT JUST on whether the work was done or not—BOTH ARE EQUALLY IMPORTANT.
Not sure if I conveyed the point to your satisfaction—but as I mentioned earlier, 'strong views' are essentially the base/source [which emanate from the scale/level of knowledge one has, as mentioned by others too earlier], while 'wrong decisions' are AMONG the culminations/consequences of APPLICATION of the strong views [please note that NOT all applications end in wrong decisions].
Regards,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
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1700To answer your query: Taj, the 'what others don't know' syndrome is different from wrong decisions... Did I misinterpret?......
The answer is BOTH YES & NO. When I say 'what others don't know', please note that I am making an 'assumption'—I may be wrong or right...depending on how well I know the person(s) I am including in the sub-set "others". If I don't know them well [maybe just acquaintances], then the assumption I make COULD obviously be a 'wrong decision' too [since it's coming from my half-baked knowledge database], in addition to the 'ego' factor [if I didn't have any ego to begin with, I wouldn't attempt to make such assumptions at all...right?].
So what we 'are' depends a lot on the circumstances we are in at that point in time—and what we do depends on what we inherently 'are'.
A common analogy I use is: Everyone, right from childhood, says—always speak the truth. But how many ACTUALLY FOLLOW IT when faced with a situation where they have TWO choices: to speak a lie or bluff to get over with an inconvenient/uncomfortable situation OR speak the truth & face the consequences, whatever they might be? Or like the Master @ handling such tricky situations—Krishna—does: neither speaking a lie NOR telling the truth that puts me in trouble? The situation brings out the BEST & WORST in people—for all to see many times.
Regarding your understanding of the point of Dr. Ulhas: "has raised an interesting point. If the person is not making wrong decisions, you would probably call them strong views?"... I think the meaning is different.
Another analogy to clarify this point: I have very strong views about ethics in the HR area. Now, if I were to ask a politician or someone who is used to dealing with government officials regularly, he/she would say—I am wrong. For that person, the REFERENCE POINT/PERCEPTION is: whether the work is done or not. So if the work is done, then I am right—IRRESPECTIVE of the modus operandi adopted. But from my perspective, the REFERENCE POINT is on 'HOW' the work was done & NOT JUST on whether the work was done or not—BOTH ARE EQUALLY IMPORTANT.
Not sure if I conveyed the point to your satisfaction—but as I mentioned earlier, 'strong views' are essentially the base/source [which emanate from the scale/level of knowledge one has, as mentioned by others too earlier], while 'wrong decisions' are AMONG the culminations/consequences of APPLICATION of the strong views [please note that NOT all applications end in wrong decisions].
Regards,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
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A person with a strong view should be nurtured and developed in an organization as they can make a good manager, at least in financial terms. They can keep their team under control by being a bit authoritative.
As a manager, if I talk on the phone, the people who work under me tend to copy it and do the same. Hence, it becomes very challenging when we try to be friendly as people take advantage and ask for a lot of favors.
To achieve better productivity, these stubborn individuals are required. After all, an employer is not a nonprofit entity.
Srini
From India, Mumbai
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As a manager, if I talk on the phone, the people who work under me tend to copy it and do the same. Hence, it becomes very challenging when we try to be friendly as people take advantage and ask for a lot of favors.
To achieve better productivity, these stubborn individuals are required. After all, an employer is not a nonprofit entity.
Srini
From India, Mumbai
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I totally agree with the views of Dr Ulhas Ganu. Fantastically explained. Ego is STICKING TO WRONG DECISIONS just because OF FEAR OF HUMILIATION or PROTECTING (False) SELF ESTEEM. Anoop
From India, Delhi
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From India, Delhi
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The topic is developing into a very interesting one, raising more pertinent questions.
The 'STRONG EXPRESSION' of the view is a function of CONFIDENCE the person has (to express views without fear of backlash), and LACK of STRONG EXPRESSION of his/her views goes with DIFFIDENCE (what if I am wrong & others laugh at me?).
For lawful activities, RIGHT OR WRONG is a PERCEPTION depending on the PERSON/PARTIES & HOW THEY ARE GOING TO GET AFFECTED vis-a-vis benefits or loss he/she is looking at. Hence I personally feel, ONE NEEDS to DISTINGUISH 'RIGHT or WRONG' views from STRONG VIEWS.
To see it all in the light of the current topic, we see
1. Almost all the participants in this discussion have expressed STRONG VIEWS on the Topic.
2. This is done without embarrassing anybody, means everybody's EGO has been RESPECTED. (ALL DISCUSSANTS HERE HAVE EGO for sure)
3. They also desired to know more from others (HUMBLENESS) & possibly would modify or change one's view (HEALTHY ATTITUDE)
4. The Moderator DOES NOT FORCE a VIEW (NON-DOGMATIC, A Very Healthy Website)
This brings us to refer to the dictionary meaning of DOGMA: Authoritative, Arrogant Assertion of unproved or unprovable principles.
That I feel comes close to the difference between GARVA (meaning PROUD) as against ABHIMAAN (meaning SELF RESPECT, a good attribute) as perceived by us in our languages.
It indeed is becoming more difficult to define as THERE CANNOT BE a 'GOOD EGO or a BAD EGO'.
Thus like WATER, which has NO COLOUR of its own but Gets the Colour with which it is mixed, EGO cannot have its own COLOUR but WOULD TAKE THE COLOUR of HOW it is EXPRESSED by the INDIVIDUALS.
It would help if one can distinguish 'GOOD EGO & BAD EGO' with perfect single words.
Thanks to all & especially Nikhil for starting such a wonderful topic.
Dr. Ulhas Ganu
From India, Mumbai
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The 'STRONG EXPRESSION' of the view is a function of CONFIDENCE the person has (to express views without fear of backlash), and LACK of STRONG EXPRESSION of his/her views goes with DIFFIDENCE (what if I am wrong & others laugh at me?).
For lawful activities, RIGHT OR WRONG is a PERCEPTION depending on the PERSON/PARTIES & HOW THEY ARE GOING TO GET AFFECTED vis-a-vis benefits or loss he/she is looking at. Hence I personally feel, ONE NEEDS to DISTINGUISH 'RIGHT or WRONG' views from STRONG VIEWS.
To see it all in the light of the current topic, we see
1. Almost all the participants in this discussion have expressed STRONG VIEWS on the Topic.
2. This is done without embarrassing anybody, means everybody's EGO has been RESPECTED. (ALL DISCUSSANTS HERE HAVE EGO for sure)
3. They also desired to know more from others (HUMBLENESS) & possibly would modify or change one's view (HEALTHY ATTITUDE)
4. The Moderator DOES NOT FORCE a VIEW (NON-DOGMATIC, A Very Healthy Website)
This brings us to refer to the dictionary meaning of DOGMA: Authoritative, Arrogant Assertion of unproved or unprovable principles.
That I feel comes close to the difference between GARVA (meaning PROUD) as against ABHIMAAN (meaning SELF RESPECT, a good attribute) as perceived by us in our languages.
It indeed is becoming more difficult to define as THERE CANNOT BE a 'GOOD EGO or a BAD EGO'.
Thus like WATER, which has NO COLOUR of its own but Gets the Colour with which it is mixed, EGO cannot have its own COLOUR but WOULD TAKE THE COLOUR of HOW it is EXPRESSED by the INDIVIDUALS.
It would help if one can distinguish 'GOOD EGO & BAD EGO' with perfect single words.
Thanks to all & especially Nikhil for starting such a wonderful topic.
Dr. Ulhas Ganu
From India, Mumbai
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I second Saroj. As long as a person is ready to accept others' views, as well as justify or convince others of their own views, that person is receptive in nature. A person with a receptive nature cannot be termed as egoistic.
From India, Bangalore
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From India, Bangalore
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Dear All,
It's a very interesting thread, filled with knowledgeable information. I recommend this thread for STUDENTS as a CASE STUDY. While respecting individuals' perception levels, I would like to participate to the best of my knowledge.
1) A PERSON WITH STRONG VIEWS - if views are GENUINE, BASED ON HONESTY, FACT, TRUTH, then that wise person cannot be considered as EGOISTIC unless he is open for DISCUSSIONS, should believe in convincing individuals where he may take support of examples, etc., but, should neither ARGUE nor PROMOTE ARGUMENTS.
2) A WISE PERSON will try to withdraw his presence if opponents/audience arguments are baseless, trying to deviate from the topic or there may be chances for exchanging INFORMAL VIEWS/HEATED DISCUSSIONS then, HE CANNOT BE CONSIDERED AS EGOISTIC.
TO DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN EGOISTIC AND NON-EGOISTIC PERSON - ACID TEST
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
EGOISTIC PERSON
-----------------
EGO is a MINDSET (state of mind) and also known as an ATTITUDE - MENTAL PROCESS but, when it takes a PHYSICAL SHAPE, you can see people getting angry, shouting at others, arguing, losing self-control.... At times EGOISTIC PEOPLE DO SUPPORT WRONG DECISIONS.
The best friend of EGO is ANGER, SUPERIORITY COMPLEX, PROUD of KNOWLEDGE/WEALTH/EDUCATIONAL QUALIFICATIONS/ACHIEVEMENTS, and SELFISHNESS.
NON-EGOISTIC PERSON
----------------------
To my knowledge, I consider him a WISE MAN. Having total SELF-CONTROL. will never promote WRONG DECISIONS nor participate in such debates. He'll try his best to converse, convey, and communicate effectively. If he finds things getting out of control, he may compromise wisely or quit wisely, and he may also allow his opponents to win because he knows that he is not going to lose anything.
STRONG VIEWS cannot be based on SUPERIORITY COMPLEX, PROUD, REFLECTING ANGER.
VIEWS ARE VIEWS whether they are STRONG, AUTHENTIC/GENUINE, LESS-KNOWLEDGEABLE, BASELESS but again when one perceives written information, if not addressed politely, we consider and conclude that the respondent as EGOISTIC. Also, it may be one of the factors, but it cannot be taken for granted all the time.
It's better, one always remains DOWN TO EARTH, POLITE to avoid EGO and its associated factors affecting our ATTITUDE/BEHAVIOR closely and deeply associated with our CHARACTER.
The one who gains total control on ANGER can never be an EGOISTIC PERSON.
With profound regards
From India, Chennai
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It's a very interesting thread, filled with knowledgeable information. I recommend this thread for STUDENTS as a CASE STUDY. While respecting individuals' perception levels, I would like to participate to the best of my knowledge.
1) A PERSON WITH STRONG VIEWS - if views are GENUINE, BASED ON HONESTY, FACT, TRUTH, then that wise person cannot be considered as EGOISTIC unless he is open for DISCUSSIONS, should believe in convincing individuals where he may take support of examples, etc., but, should neither ARGUE nor PROMOTE ARGUMENTS.
2) A WISE PERSON will try to withdraw his presence if opponents/audience arguments are baseless, trying to deviate from the topic or there may be chances for exchanging INFORMAL VIEWS/HEATED DISCUSSIONS then, HE CANNOT BE CONSIDERED AS EGOISTIC.
TO DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN EGOISTIC AND NON-EGOISTIC PERSON - ACID TEST
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
EGOISTIC PERSON
-----------------
EGO is a MINDSET (state of mind) and also known as an ATTITUDE - MENTAL PROCESS but, when it takes a PHYSICAL SHAPE, you can see people getting angry, shouting at others, arguing, losing self-control.... At times EGOISTIC PEOPLE DO SUPPORT WRONG DECISIONS.
The best friend of EGO is ANGER, SUPERIORITY COMPLEX, PROUD of KNOWLEDGE/WEALTH/EDUCATIONAL QUALIFICATIONS/ACHIEVEMENTS, and SELFISHNESS.
NON-EGOISTIC PERSON
----------------------
To my knowledge, I consider him a WISE MAN. Having total SELF-CONTROL. will never promote WRONG DECISIONS nor participate in such debates. He'll try his best to converse, convey, and communicate effectively. If he finds things getting out of control, he may compromise wisely or quit wisely, and he may also allow his opponents to win because he knows that he is not going to lose anything.
STRONG VIEWS cannot be based on SUPERIORITY COMPLEX, PROUD, REFLECTING ANGER.
VIEWS ARE VIEWS whether they are STRONG, AUTHENTIC/GENUINE, LESS-KNOWLEDGEABLE, BASELESS but again when one perceives written information, if not addressed politely, we consider and conclude that the respondent as EGOISTIC. Also, it may be one of the factors, but it cannot be taken for granted all the time.
It's better, one always remains DOWN TO EARTH, POLITE to avoid EGO and its associated factors affecting our ATTITUDE/BEHAVIOR closely and deeply associated with our CHARACTER.
The one who gains total control on ANGER can never be an EGOISTIC PERSON.
With profound regards
From India, Chennai
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Well I feel ego is cognitive and strong view is based on aquired knowledge. how it is used is personal. capt sivva
From India, Madras
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From India, Madras
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Hi Seniors, Experts, and Readers,
I enjoyed this discussion very much. These two aspects are very dominant in our lives. A person with strong views is often presented as egoistic. The explanations given here are very enlightening. I have seen and experienced blunderous decisions people made solely out of ego and to protect their pride. Ego is a silent social evil. I'm not an expert in this case study, but I'm enjoying the knowledge shared by wonderful people here.
Hussain
From Kuwait, Salmiya
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I enjoyed this discussion very much. These two aspects are very dominant in our lives. A person with strong views is often presented as egoistic. The explanations given here are very enlightening. I have seen and experienced blunderous decisions people made solely out of ego and to protect their pride. Ego is a silent social evil. I'm not an expert in this case study, but I'm enjoying the knowledge shared by wonderful people here.
Hussain
From Kuwait, Salmiya
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Hello Hussain Zulfikar,
That's what CiteHR is all about - sharing just for the reason of sharing, without any expectations. Isn't it? Enjoy yourself - while at the same time, gaining and learning from others' mistakes and experiences.
There's a Quote: "The wise learn from others' experiences, while the fools don't even learn from theirs."
Regards,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
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That's what CiteHR is all about - sharing just for the reason of sharing, without any expectations. Isn't it? Enjoy yourself - while at the same time, gaining and learning from others' mistakes and experiences.
There's a Quote: "The wise learn from others' experiences, while the fools don't even learn from theirs."
Regards,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
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Hello,
Quite an interesting reading from an HR perspective. If your strong views are pushed causing no harm to other stakeholders, then we need to take a strong, acceptable view. Someone needs to put a foot down somewhere, or else in this "let me please everyone" psyche, decisions tend to suffer. If you are pushing your strong views despite knowing that certain people will be rubbed the wrong way without deserving such an act, well, ego comes into the picture.
From India, Mangaluru
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Quite an interesting reading from an HR perspective. If your strong views are pushed causing no harm to other stakeholders, then we need to take a strong, acceptable view. Someone needs to put a foot down somewhere, or else in this "let me please everyone" psyche, decisions tend to suffer. If you are pushing your strong views despite knowing that certain people will be rubbed the wrong way without deserving such an act, well, ego comes into the picture.
From India, Mangaluru
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