Respected All Sr. / Jr.
I just want your valuable opinion on this particular subject, for this the description for your convenience is as follows:
I joined a Pvt. Ltd. Co. (I feel unethical if I mention the name of the Co.) in the last week of June 2010 as Manager HR. It's a new establishment, structured almost 1 or 2 months ago before my joining. I was recommended by a gentleman whose father and he himself are known to me from my last employment.
I have near about 10 years of experience in the Facility Management Industry. After this experience, I joined this Co. for the simple reason, which is a short distance from my home. As per the fact, I was working with full flexibility mode such as going into the field to do the different paperwork in respect of PF-ESIC, to fill the recruitment forms at the site many times. Although they have the Area Managers, Operation Manager, and site in charges also. For this, they used to tell "ki abhi initial stage hai baad mein tumhe nahi janna padega site per". For this, I felt justification as the Co. was recently structured.
Apart from this, I was doing the billing also over there, asked many times to hire a junior accountant; they said we are planning to hire a CA. I thought they had the perspective with them. I was doing all with utmost flexibility, which is not part of my basic nature. I never ever did this in the past employments. I was doing everything with the extra profile of billing. At the time of the second billing, I was pleading to everyone for all, nobody is bothered about the firm billing and salaries. I asked an operation manager to sit and get prepared the bills with utmost care, but he didn't support me. "Mene kaha Gupta Ji Chair le lo betho, Gupta Ji pass me aa jao, Gupta Ji phle bill banwa lo baat baad me kar lena, Gupta Ji office me doodh nahi me mangwa leta hoon chai ke liye." All of a sudden, he spoke to me ki kiya hua ho to raha hai na, ho jayege itni tension kiyon lete ho. Mene kaha ki Gupta Ji me jo kaam karta hoon chata hoon ki with perfection ho aur phle priority khatam ho with excellence and I am doing the things other than my profile, which you should appreciate. He said agar aisa hai to phir aap director se baat karo ham se mat bolo. I said I have no problem with this, but if I'm initiating, then you have to understand the thing from your part also, and you should take the initiative for the same. And all spread into an argument, which was supported by a gentleman named (A), who already known to me for the last 10 years. He is the operation manager over there. The Director was present and listening to the argument there but didn't interfere at that time.
We both "A" and I started the career at the same time. Initially, he addressed me "bhaiya", now he was calling me by my name. He was the person who had given the input about me to the Director that he is not a good guy, always creating problems, and playing a role of "apple of discord" between the employees, etc. at the time of his interview. And you will not believe that they refused my employment on the very first day of my joining and said ki abhi ek director se aur baat hogi tab aap ka appointment final hoga, I said ke madam this is not the professionalism I have given the resign to my present job. Again they called me to join, and I joined the company after ignoring all unethical treatment of that Co. Actually, there is an amalgamation of 4-5 persons, those already known to each other. Even Director, GM – Operation, Mgr- Asst. Operation Mgr were together working in a reputed Co. I don't want to mention the name of the Co. I was the single person outside of that bunch, although I am also familiar with one or above said person because of my earlier employment.
Here I want to mention that I helped "A" in many times, whether it is a matter of updating his CV, telephonic support, other ways, and means of different basic labor issues regarding PF-ESIC and leave, etc. I taught him how to fill the recruitment forms, how to prepare the attendance registers, and all. All was just a gesture towards his growth, nothing else. But during my short tenure, I never told him the same. About his views about me, which he has given to the Director, I want to tell you that he has worked with me in my past company, and he was kicked out by the employer because of his unlimited unethical approach and misconducts. Again, I don't feel good to give elaboration on that, I wish him all the good luck for his good deeds. On the other hand, I am not sure whether he understands the meaning of good deeds or not.
Come to the conclusion of this Pain: After that argument with both, I had left the office for the day with an outgoing entry in the specified register without any further discussion with anyone. At home, I realized that perhaps this is not the time to quit as salaries need to be prepared, and billing also needs to be done. I wrote an SMS to my Director that I cannot work with these circumstances, and you are requested to make my F & F by tomorrow as I don't want to stretch the issue. I was hoping that he would call me and ask me with all "Gussa and Pyaar" but he didn't reply to me. The very next day I called the person who recommended me and requested to make things with all smoothness and specially requested that if the Co. or Director wants, then they can cut my August 2-3 days' salary, if they want I can still prepare salary and other pending work without any salary, and the Director can ask for any rectification from my side and finally convey my apology to the Director, sir. After 2-3 calls, he has also opted for the same route and not picking my phone. I called his father to tell his son that there is not any issue of him, and if he feels any problem, then say sorry to him from my side. He also opted for the same route after my 2 calls. After a day, the Director called me that your F & F will be done on Friday, 13 Aug, I said Ok sir no problem, and meanwhile, I will do some pending and prominent work for your organization as per the moral responsibility as there is no HR person right now.
On Thursday, I called the Director and asked for Friday F & F; he said my wife is ill because of Dengue, and I'm not visiting the office in the normal course. I told him no problem sir; you can instruct anybody in the office. I will collect the requirement from the office with my F & F and will do the required things. After all efforts, I received a call from the office (she is Mgr Admin over there) asked me r u coming to the office on Friday for pending work. I told her yes, but you have to make my F & F at the same time she said that will be done on Monday. I requested her to make the part payment, as right now I'm jobless and I have to fulfill my family responsibility, the rest payment you can do as per your ease. She was very rude, and finally she told me to call you back after the consultation with the Director, but she didn't call me again till today. I wrote an SMS to the Director again to assess the need and again asked for part payment. He also didn't reply till today it's 2 PM. I am still waiting for his call or instructions.
Now lots of other things I wanted to mention here but it's already too lengthy. At the end of this, you are requested to let me know what is your opinion about the whole description. You are most welcome if you want to criticize me. Finally, I want to thank you for your kindness to spend your precious time towards my pain. Believe me, I feel very calm from my heart after discussing/expressing all with you.
With Huge Regards
Vikas Kumar
Note: I have requested with all my efforts towards the Director. I have sent more than 12 SMS to him in the expectation of his kindness.
From India, New Delhi
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16I just want your valuable opinion on this particular subject, for this the description for your convenience is as follows:
I joined a Pvt. Ltd. Co. (I feel unethical if I mention the name of the Co.) in the last week of June 2010 as Manager HR. It's a new establishment, structured almost 1 or 2 months ago before my joining. I was recommended by a gentleman whose father and he himself are known to me from my last employment.
I have near about 10 years of experience in the Facility Management Industry. After this experience, I joined this Co. for the simple reason, which is a short distance from my home. As per the fact, I was working with full flexibility mode such as going into the field to do the different paperwork in respect of PF-ESIC, to fill the recruitment forms at the site many times. Although they have the Area Managers, Operation Manager, and site in charges also. For this, they used to tell "ki abhi initial stage hai baad mein tumhe nahi janna padega site per". For this, I felt justification as the Co. was recently structured.
Apart from this, I was doing the billing also over there, asked many times to hire a junior accountant; they said we are planning to hire a CA. I thought they had the perspective with them. I was doing all with utmost flexibility, which is not part of my basic nature. I never ever did this in the past employments. I was doing everything with the extra profile of billing. At the time of the second billing, I was pleading to everyone for all, nobody is bothered about the firm billing and salaries. I asked an operation manager to sit and get prepared the bills with utmost care, but he didn't support me. "Mene kaha Gupta Ji Chair le lo betho, Gupta Ji pass me aa jao, Gupta Ji phle bill banwa lo baat baad me kar lena, Gupta Ji office me doodh nahi me mangwa leta hoon chai ke liye." All of a sudden, he spoke to me ki kiya hua ho to raha hai na, ho jayege itni tension kiyon lete ho. Mene kaha ki Gupta Ji me jo kaam karta hoon chata hoon ki with perfection ho aur phle priority khatam ho with excellence and I am doing the things other than my profile, which you should appreciate. He said agar aisa hai to phir aap director se baat karo ham se mat bolo. I said I have no problem with this, but if I'm initiating, then you have to understand the thing from your part also, and you should take the initiative for the same. And all spread into an argument, which was supported by a gentleman named (A), who already known to me for the last 10 years. He is the operation manager over there. The Director was present and listening to the argument there but didn't interfere at that time.
We both "A" and I started the career at the same time. Initially, he addressed me "bhaiya", now he was calling me by my name. He was the person who had given the input about me to the Director that he is not a good guy, always creating problems, and playing a role of "apple of discord" between the employees, etc. at the time of his interview. And you will not believe that they refused my employment on the very first day of my joining and said ki abhi ek director se aur baat hogi tab aap ka appointment final hoga, I said ke madam this is not the professionalism I have given the resign to my present job. Again they called me to join, and I joined the company after ignoring all unethical treatment of that Co. Actually, there is an amalgamation of 4-5 persons, those already known to each other. Even Director, GM – Operation, Mgr- Asst. Operation Mgr were together working in a reputed Co. I don't want to mention the name of the Co. I was the single person outside of that bunch, although I am also familiar with one or above said person because of my earlier employment.
Here I want to mention that I helped "A" in many times, whether it is a matter of updating his CV, telephonic support, other ways, and means of different basic labor issues regarding PF-ESIC and leave, etc. I taught him how to fill the recruitment forms, how to prepare the attendance registers, and all. All was just a gesture towards his growth, nothing else. But during my short tenure, I never told him the same. About his views about me, which he has given to the Director, I want to tell you that he has worked with me in my past company, and he was kicked out by the employer because of his unlimited unethical approach and misconducts. Again, I don't feel good to give elaboration on that, I wish him all the good luck for his good deeds. On the other hand, I am not sure whether he understands the meaning of good deeds or not.
Come to the conclusion of this Pain: After that argument with both, I had left the office for the day with an outgoing entry in the specified register without any further discussion with anyone. At home, I realized that perhaps this is not the time to quit as salaries need to be prepared, and billing also needs to be done. I wrote an SMS to my Director that I cannot work with these circumstances, and you are requested to make my F & F by tomorrow as I don't want to stretch the issue. I was hoping that he would call me and ask me with all "Gussa and Pyaar" but he didn't reply to me. The very next day I called the person who recommended me and requested to make things with all smoothness and specially requested that if the Co. or Director wants, then they can cut my August 2-3 days' salary, if they want I can still prepare salary and other pending work without any salary, and the Director can ask for any rectification from my side and finally convey my apology to the Director, sir. After 2-3 calls, he has also opted for the same route and not picking my phone. I called his father to tell his son that there is not any issue of him, and if he feels any problem, then say sorry to him from my side. He also opted for the same route after my 2 calls. After a day, the Director called me that your F & F will be done on Friday, 13 Aug, I said Ok sir no problem, and meanwhile, I will do some pending and prominent work for your organization as per the moral responsibility as there is no HR person right now.
On Thursday, I called the Director and asked for Friday F & F; he said my wife is ill because of Dengue, and I'm not visiting the office in the normal course. I told him no problem sir; you can instruct anybody in the office. I will collect the requirement from the office with my F & F and will do the required things. After all efforts, I received a call from the office (she is Mgr Admin over there) asked me r u coming to the office on Friday for pending work. I told her yes, but you have to make my F & F at the same time she said that will be done on Monday. I requested her to make the part payment, as right now I'm jobless and I have to fulfill my family responsibility, the rest payment you can do as per your ease. She was very rude, and finally she told me to call you back after the consultation with the Director, but she didn't call me again till today. I wrote an SMS to the Director again to assess the need and again asked for part payment. He also didn't reply till today it's 2 PM. I am still waiting for his call or instructions.
Now lots of other things I wanted to mention here but it's already too lengthy. At the end of this, you are requested to let me know what is your opinion about the whole description. You are most welcome if you want to criticize me. Finally, I want to thank you for your kindness to spend your precious time towards my pain. Believe me, I feel very calm from my heart after discussing/expressing all with you.
With Huge Regards
Vikas Kumar
Note: I have requested with all my efforts towards the Director. I have sent more than 12 SMS to him in the expectation of his kindness.
From India, New Delhi
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Hello Vikas,
Frankly, I strongly feel you need to take professional help ASAP—from a psychologist (NOT a psychiatrist). It's more about how to handle situations rather than fretting about who or what is going wrong. What's in YOUR hands is YOUR RESPONSE (please note I am NOT using the word "REACTION," since it is different from response) to whatever happens around you. What others do or say ISN'T IN YOUR HANDS—so there is no point or use in worrying about what is not in your hands. Today it's this situation—tomorrow it could be another.
Please check for someone near your place, fix an appointment, and meet the psychologist ASAP. Also, be prepared to have an extended session as well as treatment, since such things take time. I also suggest you don't tell anyone about it to begin with—you can inform others later.
All the Best.
Regards,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
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Frankly, I strongly feel you need to take professional help ASAP—from a psychologist (NOT a psychiatrist). It's more about how to handle situations rather than fretting about who or what is going wrong. What's in YOUR hands is YOUR RESPONSE (please note I am NOT using the word "REACTION," since it is different from response) to whatever happens around you. What others do or say ISN'T IN YOUR HANDS—so there is no point or use in worrying about what is not in your hands. Today it's this situation—tomorrow it could be another.
Please check for someone near your place, fix an appointment, and meet the psychologist ASAP. Also, be prepared to have an extended session as well as treatment, since such things take time. I also suggest you don't tell anyone about it to begin with—you can inform others later.
All the Best.
Regards,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
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TS, thanks for your outstanding reply.
I am not feeling upset with your reply as this may be your opinion. You said, "What the others do or say ISN'T IN YOUR HANDS--so no point or use to worry about what's not in your hands. Today it's this situation--tomorrow it could be another."
Very true. It is the same if anybody in your society (mohalla) is abusing any dear one near you, and you say, "What's in my hand? I cannot do anything." Then, it happens again tomorrow with someone close to you. In that situation, you should suggest yourself and the other person seek psychologist treatment.
I agree with your point that if you are not capable enough to protest and firm enough to set your point of view, then you should consider such treatments.
For your information, I have been working for the last 10 years with this "Bimari" and have been growing day by day, receiving the Best Employee of the Month award many times in the past.
Discussions with seniors and juniors like you only mean that nobody should face this kind of treatment in the future. Employers can also get an idea and maybe provide a more conducive atmosphere for the employees.
Anyways, thanks again for your suggestion.
"Agar aap burai ke khilaf nahi bolo ge to phir achchiye kaise jeetegi."
Regards,
Vikas Kumar
Long description will result in such a way, "It's Amazing."
From India, New Delhi
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I am not feeling upset with your reply as this may be your opinion. You said, "What the others do or say ISN'T IN YOUR HANDS--so no point or use to worry about what's not in your hands. Today it's this situation--tomorrow it could be another."
Very true. It is the same if anybody in your society (mohalla) is abusing any dear one near you, and you say, "What's in my hand? I cannot do anything." Then, it happens again tomorrow with someone close to you. In that situation, you should suggest yourself and the other person seek psychologist treatment.
I agree with your point that if you are not capable enough to protest and firm enough to set your point of view, then you should consider such treatments.
For your information, I have been working for the last 10 years with this "Bimari" and have been growing day by day, receiving the Best Employee of the Month award many times in the past.
Discussions with seniors and juniors like you only mean that nobody should face this kind of treatment in the future. Employers can also get an idea and maybe provide a more conducive atmosphere for the employees.
Anyways, thanks again for your suggestion.
"Agar aap burai ke khilaf nahi bolo ge to phir achchiye kaise jeetegi."
Regards,
Vikas Kumar
Long description will result in such a way, "It's Amazing."
From India, New Delhi
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Dear Mr. Vikas,
Such incidences happen mostly in small organizations, as happened with you.
As such, there is no particular solution to your problem; you also know that.
What you can do is: Start looking for another job, and if you get selected somewhere, you should tell that organization about your current problems and ask them if they can accept the relieving letter of your earlier organization.
In such cases, companies are not very keen to give clearance so easily. Some companies don't provide any relieving letter or F & F only. As this is a small company, not properly established, they will do their best not to release your salary. The best way of obtaining your salary is to work silently till month-end, withdraw your salary, take the salary slip, and then resign.
So, it will help you out in your next job.
The kind of management you mentioned in your post, there is only a possibility that they will not release you so easily. So, you need to play diplomatically if you can't get your work done through a straightforward approach.
I hope this solution will help you.
Regards,
Purnima
From India, Mumbai
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Such incidences happen mostly in small organizations, as happened with you.
As such, there is no particular solution to your problem; you also know that.
What you can do is: Start looking for another job, and if you get selected somewhere, you should tell that organization about your current problems and ask them if they can accept the relieving letter of your earlier organization.
In such cases, companies are not very keen to give clearance so easily. Some companies don't provide any relieving letter or F & F only. As this is a small company, not properly established, they will do their best not to release your salary. The best way of obtaining your salary is to work silently till month-end, withdraw your salary, take the salary slip, and then resign.
So, it will help you out in your next job.
The kind of management you mentioned in your post, there is only a possibility that they will not release you so easily. So, you need to play diplomatically if you can't get your work done through a straightforward approach.
I hope this solution will help you.
Regards,
Purnima
From India, Mumbai
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Hi Vikas,
I have gone through the entire communication above. Apart from sympathy, I am surprised that an employee of the month thrice with 10 years of experience has fallen to such a pity situation. Think a hundred times before you join any organization, especially a new setup. And please do not rely on personal relations or acquaintances for your career.
Everything said and done, you will have to start fresh. Write an email to your employer keeping others in CC about the whole episode and ask for your relieving procedure to be smoothed out. If you get a reply, good; if not, send a follow-up email. (Do you have an appointment letter from the company?) Take a copy of the email and appointment letter to the labor court and file a case if you really want to fight back (many don't have the courage and time to do so).
I am sure you are capable, so attend interviews, tell them the reason for the bitter fallout, and you can show them the email that you have sent to your employer as proof. I am sure there are companies that hire for talent.
Hope this suffices your worry.
From India, Mumbai
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I have gone through the entire communication above. Apart from sympathy, I am surprised that an employee of the month thrice with 10 years of experience has fallen to such a pity situation. Think a hundred times before you join any organization, especially a new setup. And please do not rely on personal relations or acquaintances for your career.
Everything said and done, you will have to start fresh. Write an email to your employer keeping others in CC about the whole episode and ask for your relieving procedure to be smoothed out. If you get a reply, good; if not, send a follow-up email. (Do you have an appointment letter from the company?) Take a copy of the email and appointment letter to the labor court and file a case if you really want to fight back (many don't have the courage and time to do so).
I am sure you are capable, so attend interviews, tell them the reason for the bitter fallout, and you can show them the email that you have sent to your employer as proof. I am sure there are companies that hire for talent.
Hope this suffices your worry.
From India, Mumbai
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First of all, my sincere thanks to both of you, not for the reply but for understanding the incident.
Purnima: As you said, it's true that somehow you have to be more diplomatic, but I never ever thought to be like this. I always try to give more than 100%, irrespective of the size of the organization. But from now onwards, I will try to follow your suggestion and will keep in mind all the advice given by your goodness.
Second Person: Sir/Madam, I was not expecting any sympathy towards me; I have raised the point to know what my faults were. And people will come and protest against this kind of treatment in offices. You have also rightly said that if you are capable of facing further interviews with all logical reasoning, then anybody can get another job. Apart from this, your suggestion not to rely on personal relations: (I thought I have also helped many people get jobs, so maybe this won't happen to me). Your advice will also be very helpful for me in any further endeavors.
At the end of this, I feel good that people still have concerns for others' problems and pain. MANY, MANY THANKS AGAIN.
Regards,
Vikas Kumar
From India, New Delhi
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Purnima: As you said, it's true that somehow you have to be more diplomatic, but I never ever thought to be like this. I always try to give more than 100%, irrespective of the size of the organization. But from now onwards, I will try to follow your suggestion and will keep in mind all the advice given by your goodness.
Second Person: Sir/Madam, I was not expecting any sympathy towards me; I have raised the point to know what my faults were. And people will come and protest against this kind of treatment in offices. You have also rightly said that if you are capable of facing further interviews with all logical reasoning, then anybody can get another job. Apart from this, your suggestion not to rely on personal relations: (I thought I have also helped many people get jobs, so maybe this won't happen to me). Your advice will also be very helpful for me in any further endeavors.
At the end of this, I feel good that people still have concerns for others' problems and pain. MANY, MANY THANKS AGAIN.
Regards,
Vikas Kumar
From India, New Delhi
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Dear Professionals I want more valuable comments from your goodness. I will be very grateful to you.
From India, New Delhi
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From India, New Delhi
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Dear Vikas,
Thank you for sharing your experience. I had a senior in an HOD capacity who faced the same situation and ultimately had to resign without having a job in hand. Eventually, they found a good job after some time. Do not worry; you have already accepted the worst and have nothing more to lose. Now, whatever happens, will be for the good only. "Kitni lambe raat ho, din to fir bhee aayega." Wish you a happy life ahead.
Regards,
From India, Delhi
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Thank you for sharing your experience. I had a senior in an HOD capacity who faced the same situation and ultimately had to resign without having a job in hand. Eventually, they found a good job after some time. Do not worry; you have already accepted the worst and have nothing more to lose. Now, whatever happens, will be for the good only. "Kitni lambe raat ho, din to fir bhee aayega." Wish you a happy life ahead.
Regards,
From India, Delhi
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Dear Vikas,
I read your posting. It is really a shame on their part treating HR professionals like this. HR is not just Human Resources; it is capital to the company. They don't know the value of that capital. They are not really fit for having an HR professional. I really didn't like their treatment right from the beginning, as you wrote above.
That is where I always believe in a process-driven company rather than a person-driven company. In a process-driven company, no one can stop an employee's salary/F&F. We try to protect/help the company to not be affected by statutory issues/labour issues when the same issue comes to an HR professional. Your case should definitely be brought to the labour court if you really want to bring about some change in the attitude of the companies/management. When we start a company, we should get registered with all statutory establishments as per the Companies Act and Rules & Regulations. We should also raise this awareness among the management and make the company process-driven to avoid causing suffering to employees when they join and when they leave.
Employees are always assets to the company and are appreciable. Treating an HR Manager with 10 years of experience is really the worst. You should let them know their mistake.
Thank you.
From India, Hyderabad
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I read your posting. It is really a shame on their part treating HR professionals like this. HR is not just Human Resources; it is capital to the company. They don't know the value of that capital. They are not really fit for having an HR professional. I really didn't like their treatment right from the beginning, as you wrote above.
That is where I always believe in a process-driven company rather than a person-driven company. In a process-driven company, no one can stop an employee's salary/F&F. We try to protect/help the company to not be affected by statutory issues/labour issues when the same issue comes to an HR professional. Your case should definitely be brought to the labour court if you really want to bring about some change in the attitude of the companies/management. When we start a company, we should get registered with all statutory establishments as per the Companies Act and Rules & Regulations. We should also raise this awareness among the management and make the company process-driven to avoid causing suffering to employees when they join and when they leave.
Employees are always assets to the company and are appreciable. Treating an HR Manager with 10 years of experience is really the worst. You should let them know their mistake.
Thank you.
From India, Hyderabad
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