Recently, I came across the job details for an HR position on Timesjobs.
Industry: Chemical industry
Location: 19, Hari Kunj, Shrinagar Colony Road, MG Rd Cross, Goregaon W, Mumbai
Position: Manager- HR, Admin, Legal
Contact Person: D. Ganapathy
Specialization: Office Management & Coordination, Civil Law, Employment & Industrial Relations, Employee Relations, Performance Management, Recruitment
Job Function: Administration, HR/PM/IR/Training, Legal/Law
We are looking for a mature person who will be responsible for recruiting the right candidates at the right time and at the right salary, looking after administration, housekeeping, liaison with advocates relating to cases under Section 138 and non-compliance of service agreements. The candidate must be good at drafting.
Why should an HR specialist meant for HR/Recruitment get involved in Admin duties such as housekeeping, infrastructure maintenance, assets, pantry, etc., and also assist the advocate in vetting/drafting, legal liaison, and compliance? Does it not sound awkward? These mixed roles will ruin the candidate.
This is like asking for 'Doctor cum Cook cum Sweeper cum Merchandiser.' Just imagine the role he does and finally, he will end up buying toiletries and stationeries, without having scope for HR practices. His association will be only with housekeeping boys, mopping girls, lift man, tea walla, security guards, and dusting legal case books and almirah. How many HR professionals are competent enough and trained to vet and draft legal agreements without an LLB?
It appears that anyone can advertise and post jobs as they like, citing recession as a reason. Oops...!! God alone can save candidates from these funny employers who pollute the work culture.
Regards,
Chandru
From India, Madras
Acknowledge(0)
Amend(0)
41Industry: Chemical industry
Location: 19, Hari Kunj, Shrinagar Colony Road, MG Rd Cross, Goregaon W, Mumbai
Position: Manager- HR, Admin, Legal
Contact Person: D. Ganapathy
Specialization: Office Management & Coordination, Civil Law, Employment & Industrial Relations, Employee Relations, Performance Management, Recruitment
Job Function: Administration, HR/PM/IR/Training, Legal/Law
We are looking for a mature person who will be responsible for recruiting the right candidates at the right time and at the right salary, looking after administration, housekeeping, liaison with advocates relating to cases under Section 138 and non-compliance of service agreements. The candidate must be good at drafting.
Why should an HR specialist meant for HR/Recruitment get involved in Admin duties such as housekeeping, infrastructure maintenance, assets, pantry, etc., and also assist the advocate in vetting/drafting, legal liaison, and compliance? Does it not sound awkward? These mixed roles will ruin the candidate.
This is like asking for 'Doctor cum Cook cum Sweeper cum Merchandiser.' Just imagine the role he does and finally, he will end up buying toiletries and stationeries, without having scope for HR practices. His association will be only with housekeeping boys, mopping girls, lift man, tea walla, security guards, and dusting legal case books and almirah. How many HR professionals are competent enough and trained to vet and draft legal agreements without an LLB?
It appears that anyone can advertise and post jobs as they like, citing recession as a reason. Oops...!! God alone can save candidates from these funny employers who pollute the work culture.
Regards,
Chandru
From India, Madras
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Thank you, Chandru, for bringing this to our attention. Some job requirements can be quite amusing, expecting miracles from candidates. I'm relieved they didn't specify needing someone with "Superman" or "Spiderman powers" - you just never know. Especially in times of recession, demands can be quite extreme.
From India, Madras
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
From India, Madras
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Yes, Ash and Ravi, you are right. That shows how HR functions there and the way people are treated and respected. In the name of multi-tasking, they vomit all nonsense in JDs. Such JDs will definitely irritate the candidates, and there are no moderators at job site portals to monitor before a JD is posted by its clients. It's high time they follow such quality practices. Hahah..!!
Regards,
Chandru
From India, Madras
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Regards,
Chandru
From India, Madras
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Dear Friends,
Though it is awkward, but it is true. In today's time, many organizations keep only one person who does the entire HR & Admin functions. Rarely do HR & Admin Depts. kept separately. Time to time, they need to do recruitment, training, appraisal, as well as look after statutory compliance, security arrangements, housekeeping, and the canteen. Nowadays, HR has become a multipurpose department. Assign them any job that nobody does, and they will deliver. That's true.
Bibek
From India, Calcutta
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Though it is awkward, but it is true. In today's time, many organizations keep only one person who does the entire HR & Admin functions. Rarely do HR & Admin Depts. kept separately. Time to time, they need to do recruitment, training, appraisal, as well as look after statutory compliance, security arrangements, housekeeping, and the canteen. Nowadays, HR has become a multipurpose department. Assign them any job that nobody does, and they will deliver. That's true.
Bibek
From India, Calcutta
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
HR department has become like a 'Joker' in a pack of cards. Whom to blame, the polluting employers or the desperate candidates? This itself would show the image and the standard of that company.
Regards, Chandru
From India, Madras
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Regards, Chandru
From India, Madras
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Dear Chandru,
Blame the employer. HR people uphold the image of the company, and having a "Good HR department" is a branding. However, they have understated the value of the department and try to keep people at the admin level (who are good at common administration tasks but not HR activities) to manage HR activities.
You see, they type exactly what was told to them.
From India, Madras
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Blame the employer. HR people uphold the image of the company, and having a "Good HR department" is a branding. However, they have understated the value of the department and try to keep people at the admin level (who are good at common administration tasks but not HR activities) to manage HR activities.
You see, they type exactly what was told to them.
From India, Madras
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Hi all,
Kindly go through the link [https://www.citehr.com/161573-real-hr-profession.html] and welcome your comments. :-P
Thank you.
From India, Kochi
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Kindly go through the link [https://www.citehr.com/161573-real-hr-profession.html] and welcome your comments. :-P
Thank you.
From India, Kochi
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Yes, Chandru, you are correct in your statement. However, in order to save the company's costs, the HR person is assigned the job of overseeing the work of Admin. On one hand, it is a cost-saving measure, but it has an adverse effect on the other side.
From India, Calicut
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
From India, Calicut
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Dear Members I too agree with Mr. banerjee. He/She posted the requirement for Chemical Industry (Manufacturing). In a manufacturing industries, HR is sole responsible for HR & Admin work.
From India, Madras
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
From India, Madras
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
It's not about cost-cutting or polluted job descriptions. I think in many companies, the employer does not understand the difference between HRM, HRD, and Administration. All are just considered the same, thus all related things get merged, and real HR functions get diluted. The victim HR candidate gets on a roll to work for daily routine administration jobs and doesn't even get time to think about HR responsibilities.
I feel the HR candidate has to be very sure about the job role he or she is going to handle in the department as well as educate the management about the same.
Regards,
Anju Prince
From India, Chandigarh
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
I feel the HR candidate has to be very sure about the job role he or she is going to handle in the department as well as educate the management about the same.
Regards,
Anju Prince
From India, Chandigarh
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Well, these kinds of 'khichdi' responsibilities are common for all professionals. In IT companies, big and small, people are asked to do any and every sort of work if the manager or company feels the need. To add to the woes, the current economic situation is not in favor of employees. At least this job ad is clear and not hiding the real facts.
From India, Mumbai
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
From India, Mumbai
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
I agree with Chandru and Ravi - as HR professionals, we try to emphasize more on our duties such as recruitment, PMS, T&D. However, with that, employers often expect us to handle administrative functions as well. I feel that we, as HR professionals, should unite and resist agreeing to take on administrative tasks. If we waste our time on these tasks, who will manage our core responsibilities? Are we expected to be masters of all trades?
To add to this, as Ravi rightly mentioned, the specific job description should be crafted by an HR specialist. God, save us!
From India, Mumbai
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
To add to this, as Ravi rightly mentioned, the specific job description should be crafted by an HR specialist. God, save us!
From India, Mumbai
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
I very much agree with Anju Prince; yes, many companies do not understand the actual difference between HR, HRD, and admin. I have seen many of my friends in such companies designated as HR but doing work in no way related to HR. It majorly happens in companies where the management does not understand the real role of an HR.
From India, Hyderabad
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
From India, Hyderabad
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Hi all, really, some job descriptions are full of errors. Recently, I came across two different job postings with issues. In one, a backdate was mentioned for appearing for a walk-in. How could a candidate walk in on a backdate? In the second job posting, an incorrect email ID was provided for applying! I feel that many times, people just do not check job descriptions properly.
Nitu!
From India, Vadodara
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Nitu!
From India, Vadodara
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Read all the comments... well, I kinda agree with what Shikha has to say. Agreed that there are different responsibilities for the HR and the Admin departments, but I think most of the companies try to club the responsibilities into one! It also depends on the setup of the company. But it's nice that the employer has mentioned the details in the JD and is pretty sure of what they are looking for! At least there won't be any surprise packages for the candidate who joins them! :-P - Ketaky
From India, Delhi
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
From India, Delhi
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Hi friends,
We have noticed various views, expressing the sensitive feelings of many of us as employees at any level. However, I am unable to find a practical solution presented here. To be frank, we are confined to the situation of our jobs. It is indeed an awkward position. Is there a savior to redeem the situation? If possible, please share solutions to this issue. Let's try to bring about change and be a part of that change.
Regards,
Samrat
From India, Madras
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
We have noticed various views, expressing the sensitive feelings of many of us as employees at any level. However, I am unable to find a practical solution presented here. To be frank, we are confined to the situation of our jobs. It is indeed an awkward position. Is there a savior to redeem the situation? If possible, please share solutions to this issue. Let's try to bring about change and be a part of that change.
Regards,
Samrat
From India, Madras
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Read all the above comments... Well, HR should be separate from Admin. However, in small companies, it is handled by one person. I have also seen people working in manufacturing companies and handling HR/Admin/Legal collectively. But because of this, they are not specialized in their work, as others said.
Regards,
Ady
From India, Coimbatore
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Regards,
Ady
From India, Coimbatore
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Hey all, what I found in various job advertisements appearing nowadays is that they look for a candidate who can do all types of jobs irrelevant to their nature of background and profile. As some members cited, cost-effective measures play a vital role in releasing such "Irrelevant and funny JD." I strongly condemn the people who release the JD, and really, this will demotivate the employee who would be competent enough in his area of expertise. So, putting a crisp and precise JD is utmost in need, especially during a recession. A person cannot do scavenger jobs as the post itself is abolished by the government nowadays.
"Yes, Chandru, you are correct in your statement, but in order to save the cost of the company, the HR person is assigned the job of looking into the work of Admin. In one way, it's a part of saving, but it has an inverse effect on the other side."
From India, Madras
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
"Yes, Chandru, you are correct in your statement, but in order to save the cost of the company, the HR person is assigned the job of looking into the work of Admin. In one way, it's a part of saving, but it has an inverse effect on the other side."
From India, Madras
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Hi KB,
When the employer wants to get these jobs done from the person that he wishes to employ, don't you think it's good that he is making things clear in the first place? The rest depends on the candidates who have to decide whether they want to apply or not. I am not really supporting employers who do not understand tasks for different job roles, but I strongly think that the nature of the job is highly dependent on the setup of the job. It's good that employers tell the candidates in advance.
I would hate to work for an employer who initially talks about hardcore recruitment, performance management, and training in the job description for an HR opening but after 2-3 months involves me in admin jobs, vendor management, etc. What do you say?
- Ketaky
From India, Delhi
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
When the employer wants to get these jobs done from the person that he wishes to employ, don't you think it's good that he is making things clear in the first place? The rest depends on the candidates who have to decide whether they want to apply or not. I am not really supporting employers who do not understand tasks for different job roles, but I strongly think that the nature of the job is highly dependent on the setup of the job. It's good that employers tell the candidates in advance.
I would hate to work for an employer who initially talks about hardcore recruitment, performance management, and training in the job description for an HR opening but after 2-3 months involves me in admin jobs, vendor management, etc. What do you say?
- Ketaky
From India, Delhi
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
This reminds me of a joke that was widely heard around during the recession.
Poultry Manager: Hey all. Much of the feed may not be supplied to you as it used to be. Bird flu is spreading fast, and the recession toll is high. Keep this in mind and try to step up daily egg production.
Chicks: Sir, we are too young to learn to lay and hatch eggs. We don't know.
Hens: Somehow, we will train them and ensure that your objective is achieved. Please ensure that a sufficient number of cocks turn up for every shift. They are too lazy to cooperate with us.
Poultry Manager: Dear hens, I have given strict orders that cocks have to lay eggs and hatch themselves.
Cocks: We are new to this 'egg laying' domain, and they want us to slog more...??
Poultry Manager: Being a human, when I am trying and struggling to lay an egg myself... why don't you flocks do it..?? This is what we call multitasking.
Regards, Chandru
From India, Madras
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Poultry Manager: Hey all. Much of the feed may not be supplied to you as it used to be. Bird flu is spreading fast, and the recession toll is high. Keep this in mind and try to step up daily egg production.
Chicks: Sir, we are too young to learn to lay and hatch eggs. We don't know.
Hens: Somehow, we will train them and ensure that your objective is achieved. Please ensure that a sufficient number of cocks turn up for every shift. They are too lazy to cooperate with us.
Poultry Manager: Dear hens, I have given strict orders that cocks have to lay eggs and hatch themselves.
Cocks: We are new to this 'egg laying' domain, and they want us to slog more...??
Poultry Manager: Being a human, when I am trying and struggling to lay an egg myself... why don't you flocks do it..?? This is what we call multitasking.
Regards, Chandru
From India, Madras
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Hi Chandra,
Such profiles do exist in small companies or in labor-intensive industries like Facility Management or Housekeeping services. Historically, HR has been responsible for administrative tasks as well. Many Indian companies offer the designation of Manager HR & Admin, so it is not uncommon to find job descriptions encompassing both roles. It's commendable that these job listings are transparent about the job responsibilities upfront, unlike many companies nowadays with ambiguous roles.
Regards,
Ranjit
From India, Mumbai
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Such profiles do exist in small companies or in labor-intensive industries like Facility Management or Housekeeping services. Historically, HR has been responsible for administrative tasks as well. Many Indian companies offer the designation of Manager HR & Admin, so it is not uncommon to find job descriptions encompassing both roles. It's commendable that these job listings are transparent about the job responsibilities upfront, unlike many companies nowadays with ambiguous roles.
Regards,
Ranjit
From India, Mumbai
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
I have a very different perspective. Please see the designation; it's Manager HR. Maybe that's the reason they have mentioned all the roles like HR, Admin, Legal, etc., under one roof. Being the manager of the company, he/she will be leading a team who are from HR, Admin, Legal, housekeeping, and that's the only reason I see for the multitasked JD. I may be wrong also.
Regards,
Sheetal
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Regards,
Sheetal
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Dear All,
This was a great discussion. I would like to take an example here and then describe my standpoint on this. As an HR professional with experience in both the manufacturing and IT industries, I aim to initiate either a greenfield or a brownfield project at some point. My qualifications include an MBA, LLB, and a diploma in project management. Since I am starting my own company, I would hold the position of Managing Director.
My strengths lie in having a basic knowledge of accounting, HR, operations, and project setup through my educational background and legal formalities of companies through my LLB. However, my weaknesses include a lack of knowledge regarding statutory requirements such as government formalities in administration, including STPI registration, import-export certificates, bonding, and debonding.
I would require legal assistance and would need to communicate the requirements clearly, especially in situations like industrial relations disputes. Will the job description mentioned above help me acquire the necessary knowledge to become an MD in the future, or should I focus solely on HR-related duties?
Regarding a CEO's role in times of recession, the focus is on maintaining the organization as a profit center through cost optimization. Would a CEO with knowledge of administration, HR, law, employment, and training be better equipped to provide leadership in terms of suggestions and action plans than a CEO with limited knowledge?
In the event of a legal case in a manufacturing facility due to an accident, who would be better suited to handle the situation?
A) Someone with knowledge of safety requirements in facilities and union laws to assist in drafting official letters with legal representation in case of disputes.
B) Someone handling the case without a clear understanding of the facts, merely narrating what happened to the advocate without mentioning the relevant terms.
If I were to seek a job, I would consider the aforementioned position, unless my goal is to confine myself to HR.
Thank you.
From India, Mumbai
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
This was a great discussion. I would like to take an example here and then describe my standpoint on this. As an HR professional with experience in both the manufacturing and IT industries, I aim to initiate either a greenfield or a brownfield project at some point. My qualifications include an MBA, LLB, and a diploma in project management. Since I am starting my own company, I would hold the position of Managing Director.
My strengths lie in having a basic knowledge of accounting, HR, operations, and project setup through my educational background and legal formalities of companies through my LLB. However, my weaknesses include a lack of knowledge regarding statutory requirements such as government formalities in administration, including STPI registration, import-export certificates, bonding, and debonding.
I would require legal assistance and would need to communicate the requirements clearly, especially in situations like industrial relations disputes. Will the job description mentioned above help me acquire the necessary knowledge to become an MD in the future, or should I focus solely on HR-related duties?
Regarding a CEO's role in times of recession, the focus is on maintaining the organization as a profit center through cost optimization. Would a CEO with knowledge of administration, HR, law, employment, and training be better equipped to provide leadership in terms of suggestions and action plans than a CEO with limited knowledge?
In the event of a legal case in a manufacturing facility due to an accident, who would be better suited to handle the situation?
A) Someone with knowledge of safety requirements in facilities and union laws to assist in drafting official letters with legal representation in case of disputes.
B) Someone handling the case without a clear understanding of the facts, merely narrating what happened to the advocate without mentioning the relevant terms.
If I were to seek a job, I would consider the aforementioned position, unless my goal is to confine myself to HR.
Thank you.
From India, Mumbai
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Dear Chandru,
As per my knowledge, HR and Admin are the two faces of the same single coin. Before the HR Management concept came into play, there used to be a personnel department that took care of all the issues you mentioned (both HR, Admin, and legal). The scenario has changed now. However, in some organizations, employers are still experiencing remnants of the past. While some may say it's wrong, it is right in their own way. The outcome depends on the roles and responsibilities, which also vary based on the company (employer) and the industry. This is solely my viewpoint.
From India, Bangalore
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
As per my knowledge, HR and Admin are the two faces of the same single coin. Before the HR Management concept came into play, there used to be a personnel department that took care of all the issues you mentioned (both HR, Admin, and legal). The scenario has changed now. However, in some organizations, employers are still experiencing remnants of the past. While some may say it's wrong, it is right in their own way. The outcome depends on the roles and responsibilities, which also vary based on the company (employer) and the industry. This is solely my viewpoint.
From India, Bangalore
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Dear Chandru,
As per my knowledge, HR and Admin are the two faces of the same coin. Before the concept of HR management came into play, there used to be a personnel department that took care of all the issues you mentioned (both HR, Admin, and legal). The scenario has changed now. However, in some organizations, employers are still grappling with these old practices. While we may say it's wrong, it is right in their way. The result is as you have found – the roles and responsibilities vary depending on the company (employer) and the industry. This is my view only.
From India, Bangalore
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
As per my knowledge, HR and Admin are the two faces of the same coin. Before the concept of HR management came into play, there used to be a personnel department that took care of all the issues you mentioned (both HR, Admin, and legal). The scenario has changed now. However, in some organizations, employers are still grappling with these old practices. While we may say it's wrong, it is right in their way. The result is as you have found – the roles and responsibilities vary depending on the company (employer) and the industry. This is my view only.
From India, Bangalore
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Dear friends,
Thank you all for the comments. This post received a good response with different personal views projected and featured in 'Top ten discussions' with more than 1200 views. Knowing all domains of knowledge is not wrong, but how many would step into the shoes to meet the expectation? Learning never ends.
Initially, my career started in Admin/Accts and then moved on to core HR, heading it to date. I am competent in drafting and vetting agreements too. I took up the roles of a trainer and curriculum designer, besides being an orator, poet, content writer in Tamil/English, and a cover story author for various business and University journals.
As a journalist, photographer, and social activist, I have interviewed many eminent personalities. They had knowledge of different skills, though they never used all. Here, I attribute my efficiency to the varied skills acquired all along that helped me in the HR domain also. Of course, in the long run, such multi-faceted multi-tasking caliber would help you manage your company on your own. You would gain this experience as you progress in your career with momentum. To some extent, personal interest in learning also plays a vital role.
This may not be the case with all and should not be expected by default in everyone. Many would not aspire to do 'all in one' without compromising on quality. Being multi-skilled is different from multi-tasking, though they sound alike. Multi-skill is 'a matter of possessing various skills,' of which one or many can be exposed at any time when needed. Here, the degree of mastery does not arise. Multi-tasking refers to 'carrying out certain combinational jobs within a time frame or period.' Here, the degree of mastery arises, attributing to your performance quality and fineness.
Of course, it is quite painful to note that employers are seeking this 'masala' piece, citing recession and cost as reasons. It is the prerogative of those employers to advertise for a 'combined role' vacancy and act accordingly. As a member of this CiteHR forum, we have the right to criticize and comment on it. We cannot stop them or infringe on their actions by saying 'right' or 'wrong.'
As long as the positive ocean current prevails, your boat sails without effort. Good luck!
Regards,
Chandru
From India, Madras
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Thank you all for the comments. This post received a good response with different personal views projected and featured in 'Top ten discussions' with more than 1200 views. Knowing all domains of knowledge is not wrong, but how many would step into the shoes to meet the expectation? Learning never ends.
Initially, my career started in Admin/Accts and then moved on to core HR, heading it to date. I am competent in drafting and vetting agreements too. I took up the roles of a trainer and curriculum designer, besides being an orator, poet, content writer in Tamil/English, and a cover story author for various business and University journals.
As a journalist, photographer, and social activist, I have interviewed many eminent personalities. They had knowledge of different skills, though they never used all. Here, I attribute my efficiency to the varied skills acquired all along that helped me in the HR domain also. Of course, in the long run, such multi-faceted multi-tasking caliber would help you manage your company on your own. You would gain this experience as you progress in your career with momentum. To some extent, personal interest in learning also plays a vital role.
This may not be the case with all and should not be expected by default in everyone. Many would not aspire to do 'all in one' without compromising on quality. Being multi-skilled is different from multi-tasking, though they sound alike. Multi-skill is 'a matter of possessing various skills,' of which one or many can be exposed at any time when needed. Here, the degree of mastery does not arise. Multi-tasking refers to 'carrying out certain combinational jobs within a time frame or period.' Here, the degree of mastery arises, attributing to your performance quality and fineness.
Of course, it is quite painful to note that employers are seeking this 'masala' piece, citing recession and cost as reasons. It is the prerogative of those employers to advertise for a 'combined role' vacancy and act accordingly. As a member of this CiteHR forum, we have the right to criticize and comment on it. We cannot stop them or infringe on their actions by saying 'right' or 'wrong.'
As long as the positive ocean current prevails, your boat sails without effort. Good luck!
Regards,
Chandru
From India, Madras
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)Looking for something specific? - Join & Be Part Of Our Community and get connected with the right people who can help. Our AI-powered platform provides real-time fact-checking, peer-reviewed insights, and a vast historical knowledge base to support your search.
Job Description - HR & Admin.doc