I want to understand what the salary entitlement is for a person who joins a company and leaves within 10 days. Is the company liable to pay any salary to such an individual? He has not only wasted the time of recruitment but also training.
From India, Delhi
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From India, Delhi
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"He has not only wasted the time of recruitment but also that of the training - so what, it is the botheration of the employer. If training is an inseparable part of the job, i.e., on-the-job training as per the appointment orders, the individual, though leaving after a short duration, is entitled to a salary."
From India, Salem
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6108From India, Salem
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You have a standard notice period. If the person has left without completing the notice period, then the notice pay (gross not basic) can be deducted from the pay of the first 10 days.
If you have no notice pay, then you are supposed to pay the employee his salary. However, if the person was in training during this time and has not worked, then you may have some defense.
In reality, you can tell him to take a hike and get lost. The chances of legal action on this matter are very slim.
From India, Mumbai
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If you have no notice pay, then you are supposed to pay the employee his salary. However, if the person was in training during this time and has not worked, then you may have some defense.
In reality, you can tell him to take a hike and get lost. The chances of legal action on this matter are very slim.
From India, Mumbai
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Mr. Aman,
The recruitment process, salary payment for the employee's working period, and disciplinary actions or recovery of the notice period pay are three distinct processes that should not be confused. Regardless of the time wasted by the company in the recruitment/training process, the employee is entitled to receive their salary, even if they worked for just one day, let alone 10 days. No law permits a company to withhold an employee's salary, regardless of the duration of their employment.
On the other hand, the management has the option to take two actions against the employee: (1) initiate disciplinary action as per the rules governing employee conduct and discipline for unauthorized absence or desertion from duty if the employee left without proper resignation approval or formal relief from their job, and (2) pursue recovery of the notice period pay from the employee, with adjustments made for any dues recoverable from the employee.
Therefore, all actions should be formal and documented within the organization. Notice period pay serves as compensation for the recruitment costs or the time spent by the company on recruitment/training. If the organization operates without a set of rules and follows a trial-and-error approach, the organization alone can be held responsible for not adhering to the law.
By the way, what kind of training could be completed within 10 days? The employee must have contributed towards the company's work during that time.
.
From India, Delhi
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The recruitment process, salary payment for the employee's working period, and disciplinary actions or recovery of the notice period pay are three distinct processes that should not be confused. Regardless of the time wasted by the company in the recruitment/training process, the employee is entitled to receive their salary, even if they worked for just one day, let alone 10 days. No law permits a company to withhold an employee's salary, regardless of the duration of their employment.
On the other hand, the management has the option to take two actions against the employee: (1) initiate disciplinary action as per the rules governing employee conduct and discipline for unauthorized absence or desertion from duty if the employee left without proper resignation approval or formal relief from their job, and (2) pursue recovery of the notice period pay from the employee, with adjustments made for any dues recoverable from the employee.
Therefore, all actions should be formal and documented within the organization. Notice period pay serves as compensation for the recruitment costs or the time spent by the company on recruitment/training. If the organization operates without a set of rules and follows a trial-and-error approach, the organization alone can be held responsible for not adhering to the law.
By the way, what kind of training could be completed within 10 days? The employee must have contributed towards the company's work during that time.
.
From India, Delhi
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Simply put, the person is entitled to 10 days of pay. Pay cannot be legally denied if he claims it. It is another thing that the person may not claim it if he has to fight a legal battle for the 10 days of pay.
From India, Pune
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From India, Pune
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Dear all,
How I wish our experts would raise questions to get a clear picture of the scenario and the motive behind the blogger asking a question. I very much appreciate what Nathrao has done at https://www.citehr.com/539849-un-paid-salary.html. Amankbansal has not told us whether it is a hypothetical question (maybe a question at an interview) for which he is seeking an answer or whether he works in the HR department and is seeking a solution to a problem faced. Many of the responses are conditional based on assumptions. Instead of assuming the scenario, we should ask questions to help the blogger clearly explain the situation, to enable us to provide precise suggestions. I hope experts take these comments in the right spirit and will not get offended. I am sorry if I have ruffled any feathers, as the saying goes.
From United Kingdom
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How I wish our experts would raise questions to get a clear picture of the scenario and the motive behind the blogger asking a question. I very much appreciate what Nathrao has done at https://www.citehr.com/539849-un-paid-salary.html. Amankbansal has not told us whether it is a hypothetical question (maybe a question at an interview) for which he is seeking an answer or whether he works in the HR department and is seeking a solution to a problem faced. Many of the responses are conditional based on assumptions. Instead of assuming the scenario, we should ask questions to help the blogger clearly explain the situation, to enable us to provide precise suggestions. I hope experts take these comments in the right spirit and will not get offended. I am sorry if I have ruffled any feathers, as the saying goes.
From United Kingdom
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I second you, Simhan.
And to your line, "hypothetical question... for which he is seeking an answer or whether he works in the HR department and is seeking a solution to a problem faced," let me add, 'OR is he the employee concerned.'
There have been many postings by members who post putting themselves as some outsider trying to help, with whatever intent. Though this sounds really tough/impersonal or 'seems' to go against the basic/core tenets of CiteHR, I can see the only way to ensure members who post such half-hearted/incomplete/inaccurate postings value others' time and effort is to STOP responding to such postings.
Regards,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
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And to your line, "hypothetical question... for which he is seeking an answer or whether he works in the HR department and is seeking a solution to a problem faced," let me add, 'OR is he the employee concerned.'
There have been many postings by members who post putting themselves as some outsider trying to help, with whatever intent. Though this sounds really tough/impersonal or 'seems' to go against the basic/core tenets of CiteHR, I can see the only way to ensure members who post such half-hearted/incomplete/inaccurate postings value others' time and effort is to STOP responding to such postings.
Regards,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
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Hi,
WRT your above post, see this post: https://www.citehr.com/539894-taking...ce-period.html
I am trying to be aware of what could possibly go against me by gathering information from you people. When you say "declared absconding," is that a legal term? Sometimes the forum is being used as a sounding board for garnering opinions and ideas. Hypothetical questions are raised usually by saying, "My friend working in X organization has this problem."
As always, helpful members think on all angles and aspects, keep answering. Well, I guess in a public forum such queries are to be expected. Members need to exercise their own minds and avoid giving replies if the query is a fishing expedition.
From India, Pune
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WRT your above post, see this post: https://www.citehr.com/539894-taking...ce-period.html
I am trying to be aware of what could possibly go against me by gathering information from you people. When you say "declared absconding," is that a legal term? Sometimes the forum is being used as a sounding board for garnering opinions and ideas. Hypothetical questions are raised usually by saying, "My friend working in X organization has this problem."
As always, helpful members think on all angles and aspects, keep answering. Well, I guess in a public forum such queries are to be expected. Members need to exercise their own minds and avoid giving replies if the query is a fishing expedition.
From India, Pune
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Dear Members,
Thank you for responding to the question!
I would like to assure you all that this is not a hypothetical question and not fishing in any manner. By the way, this was my first experience with citeHR where someone suggested that this is a forum wherein you can get opinion leaders to give you the right advice for making policies. I didn't actually think that it is not a 'forum' by the spirit of it. 'Internet Forum' usually means you're free to ask questions and people choose to respond or not - generally different from taking a service from a company.
I head a startup organization as a CEO, so we came across such a situation lately. Though we have a notice period of 45 days for leaving the employment, we still want to be on the right side of the law. I hope the forum members appreciate that. It should not only lead to a legal claim, etc.
Furthermore, one member asked, "By the way, what type of training can be possible within 10 days if he must have rendered his service in doing work for the company?" I am unsure what work/service can be expected to be rendered in 10 days.
Question 1:
Is there a possibility of a 'free-look' agreement for the first 10 days where both parties are on the same footing; of course, the employee will have a choice not to enter such an agreement? I am asking all you experts what the right method is to make sure that no party ends up losing. It should be a win-win for both parties.
I would appreciate readers who think this question is not right or is fishing to NOT RESPOND. It only discourages new users like us.
Regards,
Aman
From India, Delhi
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Thank you for responding to the question!
I would like to assure you all that this is not a hypothetical question and not fishing in any manner. By the way, this was my first experience with citeHR where someone suggested that this is a forum wherein you can get opinion leaders to give you the right advice for making policies. I didn't actually think that it is not a 'forum' by the spirit of it. 'Internet Forum' usually means you're free to ask questions and people choose to respond or not - generally different from taking a service from a company.
I head a startup organization as a CEO, so we came across such a situation lately. Though we have a notice period of 45 days for leaving the employment, we still want to be on the right side of the law. I hope the forum members appreciate that. It should not only lead to a legal claim, etc.
Furthermore, one member asked, "By the way, what type of training can be possible within 10 days if he must have rendered his service in doing work for the company?" I am unsure what work/service can be expected to be rendered in 10 days.
Question 1:
Is there a possibility of a 'free-look' agreement for the first 10 days where both parties are on the same footing; of course, the employee will have a choice not to enter such an agreement? I am asking all you experts what the right method is to make sure that no party ends up losing. It should be a win-win for both parties.
I would appreciate readers who think this question is not right or is fishing to NOT RESPOND. It only discourages new users like us.
Regards,
Aman
From India, Delhi
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Hello Aman,
I think you could have saved all of us the trouble by posting the type of postings/responses had you given these details a bit earlier.
Frankly, I [or maybe 'we'] should have checked out your membership date :-)
Vis-a-vis your line ''Internet Forum'' usually meant you're free to ask questions and people choose to respond or not, that's what makes CiteHR different. It's not just a platform to get solutions for real-time/life problems but ALSO a learning mechanism for those who wish to learn... the idea being to enable others to avoid making the same mistake and enable them to learn from others' mistakes.
Coming to the issue at hand, the possibility of such an employee going 'legal' for 10 days' salary is very remote... UNLESS he/she has a lot of money to blow OR his parent is a litigant advocate [if you know what I mean].
So let your decision NOT be guided by THIS factor.
And as the CEO, the options available to you would be many... unlike for a typical HR person.
About "possibility of a 'free-look' agreement for the first 10 days"...
I am with you that 10 days is too short a time for anyone to be productive... in training or at work.
But this very fact would make your query redundant. How can you make a judgment call in 10 days as far as 'both parties are on the same footing' aspect is concerned? At most, you can see if this guy is serious or is still looking for other jobs... depending on his seriousness in the job/training. I guess, that's just about it. UNLESS you meant anything else by this statement?
Generally speaking, that's what the Probation Period is supposed to be achieving.
There's another aspect to this. I suggest you DON'T get into the trap of laying down systems/procedures/policies based on one-off situations. That will constrict your options as your company grows.
To give you a comparison, the innumerable laws in this country, many of which are redundant now and are being weeded out.
Have you faced this situation multiple times? If yes, then MAYBE it's time you also have a relook at your hiring methods. Such guys ought NOT to have been hired in the first place... the focus on WHY the candidate is preferring your company during the interview becomes important. If it's just another job or just for a salary hike, then you better be careful with such guys... interviewing more candidates may be worth it rather than deciding in a hurry.
If you wish to know more about identifying such guys during the interview process, please PM me... I shall be glad to discuss to evolve a solution to preempt such situations.
Coming to this specific employee... has he asked for his salary? Or is it YOUR initiative?
Regards,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
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I think you could have saved all of us the trouble by posting the type of postings/responses had you given these details a bit earlier.
Frankly, I [or maybe 'we'] should have checked out your membership date :-)
Vis-a-vis your line ''Internet Forum'' usually meant you're free to ask questions and people choose to respond or not, that's what makes CiteHR different. It's not just a platform to get solutions for real-time/life problems but ALSO a learning mechanism for those who wish to learn... the idea being to enable others to avoid making the same mistake and enable them to learn from others' mistakes.
Coming to the issue at hand, the possibility of such an employee going 'legal' for 10 days' salary is very remote... UNLESS he/she has a lot of money to blow OR his parent is a litigant advocate [if you know what I mean].
So let your decision NOT be guided by THIS factor.
And as the CEO, the options available to you would be many... unlike for a typical HR person.
About "possibility of a 'free-look' agreement for the first 10 days"...
I am with you that 10 days is too short a time for anyone to be productive... in training or at work.
But this very fact would make your query redundant. How can you make a judgment call in 10 days as far as 'both parties are on the same footing' aspect is concerned? At most, you can see if this guy is serious or is still looking for other jobs... depending on his seriousness in the job/training. I guess, that's just about it. UNLESS you meant anything else by this statement?
Generally speaking, that's what the Probation Period is supposed to be achieving.
There's another aspect to this. I suggest you DON'T get into the trap of laying down systems/procedures/policies based on one-off situations. That will constrict your options as your company grows.
To give you a comparison, the innumerable laws in this country, many of which are redundant now and are being weeded out.
Have you faced this situation multiple times? If yes, then MAYBE it's time you also have a relook at your hiring methods. Such guys ought NOT to have been hired in the first place... the focus on WHY the candidate is preferring your company during the interview becomes important. If it's just another job or just for a salary hike, then you better be careful with such guys... interviewing more candidates may be worth it rather than deciding in a hurry.
If you wish to know more about identifying such guys during the interview process, please PM me... I shall be glad to discuss to evolve a solution to preempt such situations.
Coming to this specific employee... has he asked for his salary? Or is it YOUR initiative?
Regards,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
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