Hi All,
I am a widow with a kid of 2 yr old. After my husband's death I collected all the necessary documents and submitted at his company. But in spite of being the only nominee the company is not paying me anything and asking for no objection certificate from my in laws. Ours was love marriage and my in laws were against it and m sure if I asked them for that certificate they won't give me in fact they will ask for their share.
They have already received one of the insurance money , which my husband had taken before marriage and my mother in law was nominee.
Kindly pls Someone guide me. I desperately want that money as my child future depends on that.
From India, Mumbai
I am a widow with a kid of 2 yr old. After my husband's death I collected all the necessary documents and submitted at his company. But in spite of being the only nominee the company is not paying me anything and asking for no objection certificate from my in laws. Ours was love marriage and my in laws were against it and m sure if I asked them for that certificate they won't give me in fact they will ask for their share.
They have already received one of the insurance money , which my husband had taken before marriage and my mother in law was nominee.
Kindly pls Someone guide me. I desperately want that money as my child future depends on that.
From India, Mumbai
Dear Pragati,
What is happening with you is heart-rending. Quite sorry to note that.
You have written that you had submitted all the documents and company is not paying you. What documents did you submit and what was the claim? Was that PF claim? You have mentioned the grounds for which your company is declining to accept the claim but are they quoting specific clause of some law? Have you verified from some lawyer whether their position is legally tenable?
Via media: - Is it possible to make overtures with your in laws? Tell them that death of their son was tragedy to you also. Try building bridges and find out whether they are ready to to give NOC. In the extreme case, forgetting differences, is it possible to stay together? If you do that, it will be in the interest of your son or their grandson.
If they sign NOC, then the proceeds of the death claim will be used for grooming their grandson. Tell them that they did not partake insurance proceeds with you. Therefore, they should not ask for any share. If they still remain adamant then agree for some share. If they still remain adamant then give them threat of filing suit for your share for the death insurance benefits which they have received. Tell them that why they wish to make rounds to the courts in the old age. Of course, I do not wish this contingency to arise.
Other senior members may give their opinions.
Thanks,
Dinesh Divekar
From India, Bangalore
7883What is happening with you is heart-rending. Quite sorry to note that.
You have written that you had submitted all the documents and company is not paying you. What documents did you submit and what was the claim? Was that PF claim? You have mentioned the grounds for which your company is declining to accept the claim but are they quoting specific clause of some law? Have you verified from some lawyer whether their position is legally tenable?
Via media: - Is it possible to make overtures with your in laws? Tell them that death of their son was tragedy to you also. Try building bridges and find out whether they are ready to to give NOC. In the extreme case, forgetting differences, is it possible to stay together? If you do that, it will be in the interest of your son or their grandson.
If they sign NOC, then the proceeds of the death claim will be used for grooming their grandson. Tell them that they did not partake insurance proceeds with you. Therefore, they should not ask for any share. If they still remain adamant then agree for some share. If they still remain adamant then give them threat of filing suit for your share for the death insurance benefits which they have received. Tell them that why they wish to make rounds to the courts in the old age. Of course, I do not wish this contingency to arise.
Other senior members may give their opinions.
Thanks,
Dinesh Divekar
From India, Bangalore
Dear Pragati,
This is my supplementary post to the previous post. You may hire family counsellor to contrive win-win situation. It is in the interest of all of you.
Secondly, let me reiterate my suggestion of staying together. If both the parties unify, the grandson will get benefited most as he will learn to live with other family members as well. Instincts of teamwork get imbibed easily in joint families than in nuclear families. In contrast, if the child is brought in the environment of separation, indifference or hostility, he will cut his teeth in this type of environment and could develop these qualities.
What I am proposing is much easier said than done. Nevertheless, if Iran and US can come together to end the hostilities of the decades then why not we? Sooner the nuclear deal was signed, the crude oil prices fell and the entire world got benefited. US and China were hostile to each other from 1945 to 1973. When they ended their hostilities, both the countries were benefited.
While you may question applicability of the the examples of international relations for personal relations, the underlying tenet in any relations is harmony. We should strive to achieve and maintain harmony. But for this both the parties have to accept each other unreservedly. What you could not do when your husband was alive or what your in-laws could not do when their son was alive, do it now and pass on the benefits to the next generation! This is a real tribute to the departed soul.
All the best!
Dinesh Divekar
From India, Bangalore
This is my supplementary post to the previous post. You may hire family counsellor to contrive win-win situation. It is in the interest of all of you.
Secondly, let me reiterate my suggestion of staying together. If both the parties unify, the grandson will get benefited most as he will learn to live with other family members as well. Instincts of teamwork get imbibed easily in joint families than in nuclear families. In contrast, if the child is brought in the environment of separation, indifference or hostility, he will cut his teeth in this type of environment and could develop these qualities.
What I am proposing is much easier said than done. Nevertheless, if Iran and US can come together to end the hostilities of the decades then why not we? Sooner the nuclear deal was signed, the crude oil prices fell and the entire world got benefited. US and China were hostile to each other from 1945 to 1973. When they ended their hostilities, both the countries were benefited.
While you may question applicability of the the examples of international relations for personal relations, the underlying tenet in any relations is harmony. We should strive to achieve and maintain harmony. But for this both the parties have to accept each other unreservedly. What you could not do when your husband was alive or what your in-laws could not do when their son was alive, do it now and pass on the benefits to the next generation! This is a real tribute to the departed soul.
All the best!
Dinesh Divekar
From India, Bangalore
Hi All,
The above said case is genuine, as per nominee rules the said amount/share which has arrived by husband it has to be reached to nominee (in this case) only.
Also HR need to facilitate to provide the amount to nominee as per their records before approach to court.
The nominee can file a case at consumer court to the get the same if not happen through employer.
Regards
Srini.
From India,
The above said case is genuine, as per nominee rules the said amount/share which has arrived by husband it has to be reached to nominee (in this case) only.
Also HR need to facilitate to provide the amount to nominee as per their records before approach to court.
The nominee can file a case at consumer court to the get the same if not happen through employer.
Regards
Srini.
From India,
Dear Friend/s,
My heartfelt condolence to the widow member and her family. May GOD gives strength to the family to bear this irreparable loss.
Any benefit out of employee-employer relationship can not be taken to consumer court.
Queriest needs to provide some more information on the employment of her late husband and also on dues payable by the employer. She also need to tell what nomination forms are filed with employer. There are different forms of nomination under different enactments. Why the employer is asking NOC from her in laws? Is there any specific reason?
I am not in a position to write more since I am undergoing some treatment now. If queriest provides the details as above, I will try to respond.
From India, Mumbai
My heartfelt condolence to the widow member and her family. May GOD gives strength to the family to bear this irreparable loss.
Any benefit out of employee-employer relationship can not be taken to consumer court.
Queriest needs to provide some more information on the employment of her late husband and also on dues payable by the employer. She also need to tell what nomination forms are filed with employer. There are different forms of nomination under different enactments. Why the employer is asking NOC from her in laws? Is there any specific reason?
I am not in a position to write more since I am undergoing some treatment now. If queriest provides the details as above, I will try to respond.
From India, Mumbai
Hello Pragati Ray,
While joining the other members in sharing your grief, pl mention clearly in this Forum what all Docs have you submitted to the Company?
More importantly, did the Lot include your Marriage Certificate?
@Korgaonkar--
To the extent I know, once a man/woman has proof of marriage, doesn't that evidence--legally--override the other nominations given before marriage?
@ Dinesh--
Vis-a-vis your comments "let me reiterate my suggestion of staying together. If both the parties unify, the grandson will get benefited most as he will learn to live with other family members as well. Instincts of teamwork get imbibed easily in joint families than in nuclear families"--
I am not so sure that this will work out that way as you expect in this case. Having watched from very close quarters such situations, it's more than likely that the kid will grow-up being torn between the 2 poles of affection & demands....mother & grand-parents [given the background].
One of them SURELY has to back-out.....in the process taking the brunt of the pain & helplessness. It's tough to give any 'right/wrong' suggestion in such a situation.
And knowing child psychology reasonably well, the kid is BOUND to grow into someone who EITHER doesn't trust ANYONE OR has a very low self-esteem later in his life....won't be surprised IF it goes into his late-life too--seriously.
Your surmise about joint families is true ONLY when it's been there since birth for the child. It's tough to even give credence, forget believe, that a child picks off psychological inputs during 0-5 yrs of age that decide much of what he/she becomes later in life.
@Pragati Ray--
You mentioned ".....m sure if I asked them for that certificate they won't give me in fact they will ask for their share"--for all you know your in-laws may NOT be the same people after their loss of their son?
Like Dinesh suggested, send someone whom YOU TRUST to just enquire IF they will give the NOC......let this NOT look like you are ASKING for it. Let it look more like the via-media person is suggesting to them on HIS/HER own. Based on their response/reaction, you can take the next step. Just give this possibility a chance--IF it works-out, well & good. And if it DOESN'T, you haven't lost anything.
Even IF they ask for a share, I am with Dinesh on this aspect....UNLESS of course they want 90% of it.....meaning a major share.
It's up to YOU to decide your priority....MONEY OR a peaceful life focusing on your & your son's future. Pl note that money can ALWAYS be earned again. Like the Saying in Hindi goes: "Zindagi mein kuch paana hai tho kuch khona hai". The choice is the individual's......again nothing 'right/wrong' here, ONLY consequences.
You haven't mentioned if you are working AND if your husband was the only son to your in-laws. Both these factors would also decide some response mechanisms from both ends.
And without sounding prophetic, I also wouldn't rule-out the possibility of your in-laws contacting you later in life [when they really realize their follies....i.e., they change....which is NOT possible if all of you compromise to stay together now] to see their grandson....especially IF your husband was their only son. Hence I would suggest you NOT to 'burn all the bridges'......UNLESS you see clear evidence of them trying to take emotional & psychological control of your child. The ideal situation would be where your son has BOTH you & his grandparents.
All the Best.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
While joining the other members in sharing your grief, pl mention clearly in this Forum what all Docs have you submitted to the Company?
More importantly, did the Lot include your Marriage Certificate?
@Korgaonkar--
To the extent I know, once a man/woman has proof of marriage, doesn't that evidence--legally--override the other nominations given before marriage?
@ Dinesh--
Vis-a-vis your comments "let me reiterate my suggestion of staying together. If both the parties unify, the grandson will get benefited most as he will learn to live with other family members as well. Instincts of teamwork get imbibed easily in joint families than in nuclear families"--
I am not so sure that this will work out that way as you expect in this case. Having watched from very close quarters such situations, it's more than likely that the kid will grow-up being torn between the 2 poles of affection & demands....mother & grand-parents [given the background].
One of them SURELY has to back-out.....in the process taking the brunt of the pain & helplessness. It's tough to give any 'right/wrong' suggestion in such a situation.
And knowing child psychology reasonably well, the kid is BOUND to grow into someone who EITHER doesn't trust ANYONE OR has a very low self-esteem later in his life....won't be surprised IF it goes into his late-life too--seriously.
Your surmise about joint families is true ONLY when it's been there since birth for the child. It's tough to even give credence, forget believe, that a child picks off psychological inputs during 0-5 yrs of age that decide much of what he/she becomes later in life.
@Pragati Ray--
You mentioned ".....m sure if I asked them for that certificate they won't give me in fact they will ask for their share"--for all you know your in-laws may NOT be the same people after their loss of their son?
Like Dinesh suggested, send someone whom YOU TRUST to just enquire IF they will give the NOC......let this NOT look like you are ASKING for it. Let it look more like the via-media person is suggesting to them on HIS/HER own. Based on their response/reaction, you can take the next step. Just give this possibility a chance--IF it works-out, well & good. And if it DOESN'T, you haven't lost anything.
Even IF they ask for a share, I am with Dinesh on this aspect....UNLESS of course they want 90% of it.....meaning a major share.
It's up to YOU to decide your priority....MONEY OR a peaceful life focusing on your & your son's future. Pl note that money can ALWAYS be earned again. Like the Saying in Hindi goes: "Zindagi mein kuch paana hai tho kuch khona hai". The choice is the individual's......again nothing 'right/wrong' here, ONLY consequences.
You haven't mentioned if you are working AND if your husband was the only son to your in-laws. Both these factors would also decide some response mechanisms from both ends.
And without sounding prophetic, I also wouldn't rule-out the possibility of your in-laws contacting you later in life [when they really realize their follies....i.e., they change....which is NOT possible if all of you compromise to stay together now] to see their grandson....especially IF your husband was their only son. Hence I would suggest you NOT to 'burn all the bridges'......UNLESS you see clear evidence of them trying to take emotional & psychological control of your child. The ideal situation would be where your son has BOTH you & his grandparents.
All the Best.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
I fully agree with what Shri Divekar suggests. After all there is no harm in trying, more so in the interest of the child's future.
As regards status of nomination after marriage one has to consult a lawyer. I remember to have read a case where the court had decided that the nominee or nomination is clearly a process of smooth transfer of money, but the money has to go the legal heirs eventually and not the nominee, the nominee holds the funds as a mere custodian.
A S Bhat
From India, Pune
As regards status of nomination after marriage one has to consult a lawyer. I remember to have read a case where the court had decided that the nominee or nomination is clearly a process of smooth transfer of money, but the money has to go the legal heirs eventually and not the nominee, the nominee holds the funds as a mere custodian.
A S Bhat
From India, Pune
My condolence on the unfortunate death and may God grant them the strength to tide over this crisis.
A nominee is a person who holds the money on behalf of all eligible heirs.
Trying for reconciliation with in laws is a good thing,but legal aspect needs to be clear.
Law of succession eventually governs distribution of benefits.
This case has bearing on our discussion
S.Sandhya vs The Chief General Manager on 9 April, 2012
NOC being asked by the company has no real legal value.
Insurance claim being disbursed to Mother in law makes her the holder of the amount on behalf of all other claimant as as per law.
The need to get a succession certificate may arise in case dispute carries on.
It is a moment of tragedy and this should unite the family.
Old parents also need to be looked after and moral rights to the benefits do arise,not withstanding law of succession.
I hope things get sorted out or the family will need to take specific legal advice on this matter,where full case can be discussed and examined for taking next course of action.
From India, Pune
A nominee is a person who holds the money on behalf of all eligible heirs.
Trying for reconciliation with in laws is a good thing,but legal aspect needs to be clear.
Law of succession eventually governs distribution of benefits.
This case has bearing on our discussion
S.Sandhya vs The Chief General Manager on 9 April, 2012
NOC being asked by the company has no real legal value.
Insurance claim being disbursed to Mother in law makes her the holder of the amount on behalf of all other claimant as as per law.
The need to get a succession certificate may arise in case dispute carries on.
It is a moment of tragedy and this should unite the family.
Old parents also need to be looked after and moral rights to the benefits do arise,not withstanding law of succession.
I hope things get sorted out or the family will need to take specific legal advice on this matter,where full case can be discussed and examined for taking next course of action.
From India, Pune
When an Employee is not alive and if he is married, the payments are to be made to his wife and children based on the legal heir certificate issued by the revenue dept. Usually when this certificate is issued brothers will not be included(Some times the widow mother/ unmarried sister will be added). Hence NOC from brothers not necessary. It is legal right of the wife. The Employer can be informed in writing not to make any payment to anybody.
From India, Tiruchchirappalli
From India, Tiruchchirappalli
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