Hi All, "People don’t leave the company, they leave bosses." How far do you agree with this statement? regards PD
From India, Pune
5From India, Pune
This is 80-20 question. 80% of the time the people leave because of Managers, this does not mean that Being Good or Bad Manager makes a difference, If there is a imbalance in the treatment melted out, If the person's suggestions are never heard or taken seriously (no feedback given), If the Manager cannot defend his employee, even if he is right or if the manager has so promised, if the manager just scores every one on average, then the better performers will leave.
The above are only a few examples as to why a employee will resign for changing his boss, (Even when the boss is a good boss). If the Boss is bad, then all the more reason he will leave to change his boss.
20% of the time it is that people leave the company, as the culture of the company, the management style are adversely affecting the moral and growth of the individual, if the company is entangled in red tape, or any leagal hassels or if they are having a downward sphere. these are the cases when people leave the company and not the boss.
So, People will not only leave their bosses, but also will leave the company in generally an 80-20 proporation.
Regards,
Ashutosh Thakre
From India, Mumbai
The above are only a few examples as to why a employee will resign for changing his boss, (Even when the boss is a good boss). If the Boss is bad, then all the more reason he will leave to change his boss.
20% of the time it is that people leave the company, as the culture of the company, the management style are adversely affecting the moral and growth of the individual, if the company is entangled in red tape, or any leagal hassels or if they are having a downward sphere. these are the cases when people leave the company and not the boss.
So, People will not only leave their bosses, but also will leave the company in generally an 80-20 proporation.
Regards,
Ashutosh Thakre
From India, Mumbai
Dear Prakash,
The famous organisation Gallup, that conducts surveys on various issues has come up with this famous statement after their research. Click the following link to refer their article:
How Managers Trump Companies
The above statement is neither their perception nor intuition. Therefore, question whether members of this forum agree with it or not is irrelevant.
Thanks,
Dinesh Divekar
From India, Bangalore
The famous organisation Gallup, that conducts surveys on various issues has come up with this famous statement after their research. Click the following link to refer their article:
How Managers Trump Companies
The above statement is neither their perception nor intuition. Therefore, question whether members of this forum agree with it or not is irrelevant.
Thanks,
Dinesh Divekar
From India, Bangalore
True, no body can dare disagree with the statement in the post if the manager is bad.But what baffles me is as to how they keep their jobs when they are draining the organisation of good talent though the reasons therefor are not difficult to speculate.Can a business still afford such bad managers in the stiflingly competitive environment?.
B.Saikumar
HR & Labour Law Consultant
From India, Mumbai
B.Saikumar
HR & Labour Law Consultant
From India, Mumbai
NOT IN MANY CASES. This is only a single (NOT singlemost) out of multifarious reasons due to which the employees leave the company. However, nature of motivational measures of any organisation and good nature of a boss tends to buy loyalty of most of the employees by sacrificing their personal interests.
From India, Delhi
From India, Delhi
I think that employees leave because of many reasons: bad bosses, unfit working environment, bad colleagues, lack of challenges or just personal reasons. Howerver, as I've seen, bad boss is the most popular reasons in these cases.
This link can help you understand yourself better, are you a good boss or bad boss?
http://vnmanpower.com/en/are-you-a-good-boss-or-bad-boss-bl81.html
From Vietnam, Hanoi
This link can help you understand yourself better, are you a good boss or bad boss?
http://vnmanpower.com/en/are-you-a-good-boss-or-bad-boss-bl81.html
From Vietnam, Hanoi
Hi every one
I had made a one line comment immediately after the start of the thread
and now it has disappeared !
From my experience I can say in the Indian style of working
the interaction between a boss and his colleagues takes place very often.
When the equation does not match it becomes a recurring agony and torture
for the junior colleague. If that happens one starts looking for other avenues
and leaves the boss and so also the job.
V.Raghunathan
From India
I had made a one line comment immediately after the start of the thread
and now it has disappeared !
From my experience I can say in the Indian style of working
the interaction between a boss and his colleagues takes place very often.
When the equation does not match it becomes a recurring agony and torture
for the junior colleague. If that happens one starts looking for other avenues
and leaves the boss and so also the job.
V.Raghunathan
From India
Many bosses lack a professional touch in their dealings with subordinates.
They do not mentor their juniors sufficiently and spend far too less time in developing them.
They are busy in a rat race themselves and juniors are the pawns in the game.
The very few bosses who act professionally bring out the best in their juniors-professionally are the ones lucky subordinates get a chance to work with.
Sometimes they never communicate things properly and say I thought it is understood and implied.
Your thought is no substitute for good and clear communication.
They fail to give feedback on their juniors performance in a manner which helps the junior to anlayse and understand his short comings.
Read this link:
Top 10 Qualities of a Good Boss | RISMedia
From India, Pune
They do not mentor their juniors sufficiently and spend far too less time in developing them.
They are busy in a rat race themselves and juniors are the pawns in the game.
The very few bosses who act professionally bring out the best in their juniors-professionally are the ones lucky subordinates get a chance to work with.
Sometimes they never communicate things properly and say I thought it is understood and implied.
Your thought is no substitute for good and clear communication.
They fail to give feedback on their juniors performance in a manner which helps the junior to anlayse and understand his short comings.
Read this link:
Top 10 Qualities of a Good Boss | RISMedia
From India, Pune
Dear Prakash,
The theory of "Survival of the fittest" applies in the corporate culture as well. Needless to emphasize, corporates are created as profit earning entities, where the stake holders expect the management to show results. Naturally corporates treat welfare and comfort of the employees as secondary issue than results. So, the bosses in corporate culture are also expected by the top bosses to be the fittest persons to prove themselves as better designed for immediate local environment. But the fittest in the corporate culture is he, who is capable of showing results by getting the results from his team members.
The history of the phrase "Survival of the Fittest" goes back to the year 1864. Earlier the phrase originated from an evolutionary theory as a way of describing the mechanism of "natural selection." The said phrase was coined by Herbert Spencer, an English Philosopher. Although he coined the phrase after reading Charles Darwin's world renowned theory "The Origin of Species," but later Charles Darwin, himself preferred to introduce the phrase in the fifth edition of "The Origin of Species," as published in 1869, intending it to mean "better designed for an immediate, local environment."
So, the bosses, per force have to prove as "better designed for an immediate, local environment." Similarly, the employees working under him are also expected to prove them also to be "better designed for an immediate, local environment."
So for as the saying, "People don't leave company, they leave bosses" is concerned, any sincere, result oriented and knowledgeable person don't feel the need to leave his boss or the company unless he feels the need to satisfy his own personal issues. In fact, what I believe, the phrase, "People dont leave company, they leave bosses," is coined by some negative theoretical minded author having no practical experience. Even if you read some authors on management and apply your own mind with reference to your practical experience, you will find that some authors have just filled their books with junk material, as most of the authors, having flare for writing and craze for earning money out of the ignorance of the readers, and not having any practical experience, coin such phrases just to make their theory books voluminous. Theory and practice can prove to be the reverse sides and contradictory to ach other in the concept of management and leadership.
My own practical experience in encountering such authors had very much proved that such authors do nothing, except filling the papers with hypothetical vague ideas in several cases just with the sole aim of being known to the readers. I remember, when I challenged the one of the world's top gurus in management on some of his vague idea published through the journal of "Harward Business Review" of the world famous University of Harvard. But, by virtue his right to moderate the comments, instead of proving my concept as wrong as against his own idea, he preferred not to let my views published with the fear that he was going to be proved wrong that could lead to affect his reputation as one of the world guru in management. So, after seeing no response in the HBR for about a week when I reminded the Harvard University along with my more derrogatory comments on the ideas published in the article and questioned the university that when the University, itself, was allowing to profess wrong management ideas, what results could be expected from Universty's management students after they pass their exams. When I insisted the University to publish my latest comments, including my observation about the university, as of face saving measure, the editor of the journal came forward with the plea that my views could not be published earlier as the same appeared in their spam mail, and so they had retrieved the same and published my previous comments. The question arises, how the views expressed on a blog site of the University could appear in their spam mail?
So, some times the theoretical authors invent such vague ideas and phrases. Some member have endorsed the view that about 80% cases the people leave only due to toughness of the managers/ bosses. But the question arises, where is such survey to prove that 80% people leave the companies only due to bad managers.
Of course, in some cases people leave due to bad behaviour or toughness of their bosses, but it is wrong to suggest that 80% people leave due to the said reason.
My experience says, the biggest reason for attrition is lack of motivation for career development of the employees or their expection for comforts and ease of doing job in the organisation.
BUT MY BELIEF IS, ONCE AN EMPLOYEE IS CAPABLE OF TAKING HINTS OF THE BOSS FOR DOING THE JOB AND STARTS GIVING RESULTS AS PER THE ASPIRATIONS OF THE MANAGEMENT, HE GETS A STRONG HOLD IN THE SAME EMPLOYMENT AND ALSO CREATES AMPLE OPPORTUNITIES OF HIS CAREER DEVELOPMENT ON THE SAME EMPLOYMENT IN THE SAME ENVIRONMENTS WITHOUT SWITCHING OVER TO SOME OTHER JOB. Some of them go to the level of MD or Charman of the organisation by dint of their loyalty, sincerity and hard work in the organisation.
So, I do not at all contribute to the said theory of "People dont leave company, they leave bosses." The question arises, why not become the fittest in all respects that the boss starts respecting you and work in the interest of the employee?
From India, Delhi
The theory of "Survival of the fittest" applies in the corporate culture as well. Needless to emphasize, corporates are created as profit earning entities, where the stake holders expect the management to show results. Naturally corporates treat welfare and comfort of the employees as secondary issue than results. So, the bosses in corporate culture are also expected by the top bosses to be the fittest persons to prove themselves as better designed for immediate local environment. But the fittest in the corporate culture is he, who is capable of showing results by getting the results from his team members.
The history of the phrase "Survival of the Fittest" goes back to the year 1864. Earlier the phrase originated from an evolutionary theory as a way of describing the mechanism of "natural selection." The said phrase was coined by Herbert Spencer, an English Philosopher. Although he coined the phrase after reading Charles Darwin's world renowned theory "The Origin of Species," but later Charles Darwin, himself preferred to introduce the phrase in the fifth edition of "The Origin of Species," as published in 1869, intending it to mean "better designed for an immediate, local environment."
So, the bosses, per force have to prove as "better designed for an immediate, local environment." Similarly, the employees working under him are also expected to prove them also to be "better designed for an immediate, local environment."
So for as the saying, "People don't leave company, they leave bosses" is concerned, any sincere, result oriented and knowledgeable person don't feel the need to leave his boss or the company unless he feels the need to satisfy his own personal issues. In fact, what I believe, the phrase, "People dont leave company, they leave bosses," is coined by some negative theoretical minded author having no practical experience. Even if you read some authors on management and apply your own mind with reference to your practical experience, you will find that some authors have just filled their books with junk material, as most of the authors, having flare for writing and craze for earning money out of the ignorance of the readers, and not having any practical experience, coin such phrases just to make their theory books voluminous. Theory and practice can prove to be the reverse sides and contradictory to ach other in the concept of management and leadership.
My own practical experience in encountering such authors had very much proved that such authors do nothing, except filling the papers with hypothetical vague ideas in several cases just with the sole aim of being known to the readers. I remember, when I challenged the one of the world's top gurus in management on some of his vague idea published through the journal of "Harward Business Review" of the world famous University of Harvard. But, by virtue his right to moderate the comments, instead of proving my concept as wrong as against his own idea, he preferred not to let my views published with the fear that he was going to be proved wrong that could lead to affect his reputation as one of the world guru in management. So, after seeing no response in the HBR for about a week when I reminded the Harvard University along with my more derrogatory comments on the ideas published in the article and questioned the university that when the University, itself, was allowing to profess wrong management ideas, what results could be expected from Universty's management students after they pass their exams. When I insisted the University to publish my latest comments, including my observation about the university, as of face saving measure, the editor of the journal came forward with the plea that my views could not be published earlier as the same appeared in their spam mail, and so they had retrieved the same and published my previous comments. The question arises, how the views expressed on a blog site of the University could appear in their spam mail?
So, some times the theoretical authors invent such vague ideas and phrases. Some member have endorsed the view that about 80% cases the people leave only due to toughness of the managers/ bosses. But the question arises, where is such survey to prove that 80% people leave the companies only due to bad managers.
Of course, in some cases people leave due to bad behaviour or toughness of their bosses, but it is wrong to suggest that 80% people leave due to the said reason.
My experience says, the biggest reason for attrition is lack of motivation for career development of the employees or their expection for comforts and ease of doing job in the organisation.
BUT MY BELIEF IS, ONCE AN EMPLOYEE IS CAPABLE OF TAKING HINTS OF THE BOSS FOR DOING THE JOB AND STARTS GIVING RESULTS AS PER THE ASPIRATIONS OF THE MANAGEMENT, HE GETS A STRONG HOLD IN THE SAME EMPLOYMENT AND ALSO CREATES AMPLE OPPORTUNITIES OF HIS CAREER DEVELOPMENT ON THE SAME EMPLOYMENT IN THE SAME ENVIRONMENTS WITHOUT SWITCHING OVER TO SOME OTHER JOB. Some of them go to the level of MD or Charman of the organisation by dint of their loyalty, sincerity and hard work in the organisation.
So, I do not at all contribute to the said theory of "People dont leave company, they leave bosses." The question arises, why not become the fittest in all respects that the boss starts respecting you and work in the interest of the employee?
From India, Delhi
"" why not become the fittest in all respects that the boss starts respecting you and work in the interest of the employee?""
Easier said than done.
A man may be good at his job,but if he is not regarded well by his immediate boss-reason could vary from personal dislikes-boss psychological profile,he may not progress and will meet with daily obstacles in his work.
I do not subscribe to the 80-20 theory.
There is no such ratio and proportion for why people leave,
but having difficult managers is one big reason in many exits.
From India, Pune
Easier said than done.
A man may be good at his job,but if he is not regarded well by his immediate boss-reason could vary from personal dislikes-boss psychological profile,he may not progress and will meet with daily obstacles in his work.
I do not subscribe to the 80-20 theory.
There is no such ratio and proportion for why people leave,
but having difficult managers is one big reason in many exits.
From India, Pune
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