dear all,
Can PF commissioner ask for the document for the period in which we are not registered with them as employer
In my case we register ourselves as an employer in 2012 not notice has been served to us to show all the records from 2002- 2012 duration in which we were not registered we dont have documents pertaining to that period as we were not having regular employees that time ours is a small firm having 5 employees.
please suggest
From India, Dehra Dun
Can PF commissioner ask for the document for the period in which we are not registered with them as employer
In my case we register ourselves as an employer in 2012 not notice has been served to us to show all the records from 2002- 2012 duration in which we were not registered we dont have documents pertaining to that period as we were not having regular employees that time ours is a small firm having 5 employees.
please suggest
From India, Dehra Dun
Dear Sir,
if you are not registered in PF department from 2002 to 2012 then your responsibility is nill the PF commissioner have not right ask documentation regarding PF. but attendance and other proof which is show that employees is less.
From India, Shimla
if you are not registered in PF department from 2002 to 2012 then your responsibility is nill the PF commissioner have not right ask documentation regarding PF. but attendance and other proof which is show that employees is less.
From India, Shimla
Sir as for this period we actually dont have any regular employee people work on contract for 1 or 2 mmonth and left so didn't have any record
In this case what to do field officer has prepared the report in our favour but commissioner is not accepting the report we had the xerox copy of the report
From India, Dehra Dun
In this case what to do field officer has prepared the report in our favour but commissioner is not accepting the report we had the xerox copy of the report
From India, Dehra Dun
The PF department has right to inspect the records and ask for production of records of any enterprise in India, irrespective of whether they are registered for PF or not. Naturally, they can only ask for documents in connection with computation and payment of PF, or to check whether they qualify.
If you were in operation for a certain period during which you had less than 20 employees, you are not liable for PF. However, you need to be able to prove that.
As per requirements of law, you are required to keep attendance and payroll records for a period of 3 years from the date of last entry in the register. In case of accounting records you are required by law to keep them for a 8 year period. So you can use that as a defence that you do not have the records any more since the statutory record keeping period is over.
But it would be required for you to show the relevant records within that period to prove that you had less than 20 employees.
From India, Mumbai
2392If you were in operation for a certain period during which you had less than 20 employees, you are not liable for PF. However, you need to be able to prove that.
As per requirements of law, you are required to keep attendance and payroll records for a period of 3 years from the date of last entry in the register. In case of accounting records you are required by law to keep them for a 8 year period. So you can use that as a defence that you do not have the records any more since the statutory record keeping period is over.
But it would be required for you to show the relevant records within that period to prove that you had less than 20 employees.
From India, Mumbai
Dear Member
PF authority have full right to check your documents from 2002 to 2012. You have to prove them that you had less than 20 employees during that period. Also please note that they can ask for first purchase and sale bill of your company from you.
In India , there is a trend to aviod PF liabilities.....and to avoid that liabilities they shows 5-6 employees in their payroll where as their balance sheet shows crores of rupees expenditure on account of Coolie & Cartage , Loading & unloading, Directors Servent expenses , Security expenses, Stipend etc etc ....all these account head covers under EPF Act....That is the main reason they are asking for previous documents and first purchase and sale bill of the company.. Supressing real fact to PF authority on the stregth way is not easy.....Now it is not easy also on different way.....
Wish you a very happy and successful PF Inspection.
.
From India, Kolkata
PF authority have full right to check your documents from 2002 to 2012. You have to prove them that you had less than 20 employees during that period. Also please note that they can ask for first purchase and sale bill of your company from you.
In India , there is a trend to aviod PF liabilities.....and to avoid that liabilities they shows 5-6 employees in their payroll where as their balance sheet shows crores of rupees expenditure on account of Coolie & Cartage , Loading & unloading, Directors Servent expenses , Security expenses, Stipend etc etc ....all these account head covers under EPF Act....That is the main reason they are asking for previous documents and first purchase and sale bill of the company.. Supressing real fact to PF authority on the stregth way is not easy.....Now it is not easy also on different way.....
Wish you a very happy and successful PF Inspection.
.
From India, Kolkata
Yes, PF Commissioner has got the right to ask records prior to your registration. If you do not have old records, atleast you might have filed the IT returns, etc., Is your company Pvt Ltd, or Priorietorship or Partnership or what is the status of your company, please explain and what is nature of work being done.
I can suggest you a method, if you are interested, you can call me on +919840136792
From India, Chennai
I can suggest you a method, if you are interested, you can call me on +919840136792
From India, Chennai
It's a lame excuse that you do not have any documents during the period from 2002 to 2012. I faced a same problem. Our company is having centralised record keeping department at faridabad where our countrywide data and records are being kept. In the year April 2010 , a massive fire broke down there and all records has been gutted. We have clippings from leading national newspapers followed by FIR. At the same time , there is a 7A case ( from April 2007 to March 2008) pending before the Kolkata PF commissionar. When asked for the records , we submitted the FIR copy , news paper clippings with Affidevit attested by a first class judicial magistrate.....In that case what PF authority will do ???? They are also having certain guidelines to face these situations......They just took our balance sheet from 2006- 2007 to 2011-12... , studied all the balance sheet thoroughly .and then inspect all the records from April 2011 to March 2012. After calculation of total demand for the period from April 2011 to March 2012 , they just deduct 20% from the total demand to determine the actual demand for the period from April 2007 to March 2008. No problem if you say that you don't have balance sheet also from the period from 2002 to 2012 .They have power to collect the same from ROC...Brother , life is not so easy....So just enjoy inspection , have good lunch and snacks with the inspector and prepare for the consequences....They have to impose some demands to your company otherwise they will be booked......What I told you is the most practical experience I faced in my almost 15 compliances ( 7A) as on date. Yes , you can go to PF tribunal to challenge the demand imposed by them....You have one or two options but they have number of options....That days are gone where Once a lower division clerk is now a PF enforcement officer.....Now highly qualified and well trained peoples are working there as a PF or ESI enforcement officer...Not easy to convience them with dry speeches......
From India, Kolkata
From India, Kolkata
In your letter it is not clear that whether yu have registered or not. If registered the records shall be maintained from the date of registration prospectively.If not registered try to register atleast from 2012 but all the liabilities from both employees and employers with penal clause have to be borne by the employer. As our learned members said you can show the attendance below the 20. The deductions of PF is compulsory for all irrespective of casual, daily, permanent or temporary for all class of employment. Do not delay try to register your establishment without any loss of time. If enforcement officer visits your office consequences will be serious.
Adoni Suguresh
Sr.Executive (pers, Admin & Ind.Rels) Rtd
Labour Laws Consultant
From India, Bidar
Adoni Suguresh
Sr.Executive (pers, Admin & Ind.Rels) Rtd
Labour Laws Consultant
From India, Bidar
Mr Adoni
His post is very clear that his company is registered from 2012..and PF deptt is asking for the record from 2002-2012...
I must add one point ....Obtaining PF code is very easy now a days....but after you got a code number, PF authority will conduct an Inspection and you have to prove them that your your employee strength crosses 20 on 2012...it is called final coverage....
From India, Kolkata
His post is very clear that his company is registered from 2012..and PF deptt is asking for the record from 2002-2012...
I must add one point ....Obtaining PF code is very easy now a days....but after you got a code number, PF authority will conduct an Inspection and you have to prove them that your your employee strength crosses 20 on 2012...it is called final coverage....
From India, Kolkata
1. You need to produce records/evidence to prove your claim that you had engaged 5 employees in your establishment during the period 2002-2011 and hence were not required to register your establishment under the EPF & MP Act.
2. Would suggest that you seek the advice of a counsel on the matter and get a suitable reply drafted by him for transmission to the EPF Office in response to their notice.
Thanks.
G. Hari
From India, Alappuzha
2. Would suggest that you seek the advice of a counsel on the matter and get a suitable reply drafted by him for transmission to the EPF Office in response to their notice.
Thanks.
G. Hari
From India, Alappuzha
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Registration for EPF-Procedures & documents.docx
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