Dear Shikha
If you have read all my replies you will note that I am strongly advocating AGAINST taking incompetent consultants on board. Please don't work with them. Please evaluate the consultant before hiring him.
Did you talk to the consultant about his inernal processes and various nitty gritties before hiring him? If no...Why? Whose job is that?
On the other hand if the consutant is keen to improve and learn, you just need to give him some feedback about your way of working and if he is competent he will adopt his process accordingly.
That is where empathy, understanding the the "Human" in HR comes into play.
I have met HR Managers in Big companies who have not been able to ask me the right questions and evaluate me & the consultancy
Good HR Associates
From India, Chandigarh
4If you have read all my replies you will note that I am strongly advocating AGAINST taking incompetent consultants on board. Please don't work with them. Please evaluate the consultant before hiring him.
Did you talk to the consultant about his inernal processes and various nitty gritties before hiring him? If no...Why? Whose job is that?
On the other hand if the consutant is keen to improve and learn, you just need to give him some feedback about your way of working and if he is competent he will adopt his process accordingly.
That is where empathy, understanding the the "Human" in HR comes into play.
I have met HR Managers in Big companies who have not been able to ask me the right questions and evaluate me & the consultancy
Good HR Associates
From India, Chandigarh
Another thought.
Dhirubhai was doing business for his own good and he did it his way. I am concerned about the entire consultant fraternity. Their humiliation at the hands of arrogant Corporate HR Managers is saddening & frustrating.
What I am trying to do is raise a Voice against those Corporate HR professionals who are insensitive, arrogant, exploitative and corrupt.
You have raised a voice against female insecurity. Though I am a male. I support it whole heartedly. I appreciate that this is your major concern. I appreciate your guts and endeavour. I understand you & empathize with you.
All I am saying is please extend common courtsey to atleast the Good Consultants, please don't exploit them, please don't use them, give where credit is due help them make an Honest living.
We are damn good consultants, clean, efficient, ethical, professional, cllients praise us but still exploit us & humiliate us when they feel like it.
This is not done. This needs to change. This WILL change
Good HR Associates
From India, Chandigarh
Dhirubhai was doing business for his own good and he did it his way. I am concerned about the entire consultant fraternity. Their humiliation at the hands of arrogant Corporate HR Managers is saddening & frustrating.
What I am trying to do is raise a Voice against those Corporate HR professionals who are insensitive, arrogant, exploitative and corrupt.
You have raised a voice against female insecurity. Though I am a male. I support it whole heartedly. I appreciate that this is your major concern. I appreciate your guts and endeavour. I understand you & empathize with you.
All I am saying is please extend common courtsey to atleast the Good Consultants, please don't exploit them, please don't use them, give where credit is due help them make an Honest living.
We are damn good consultants, clean, efficient, ethical, professional, cllients praise us but still exploit us & humiliate us when they feel like it.
This is not done. This needs to change. This WILL change
Good HR Associates
From India, Chandigarh
Good HR Associates
Pray, GO ON.
Its a good start. Pl. keep the movement a-going.
Btw I belong to Corporate HR; but I agree with you.
I would rather use the term Organizational HR (as opposed to Consultancy HR); and let me assure you this treatment is not reserved for just your kind; but HR in real life is mostly In-Human. They treat prospective employees, present employee and past employees the same way; what to talk about Outsiders like you.
They are particularly harsh on you people, because they think:
- you earn easy money (a month's salary for practically doing nothing, except making a few calls) :-x
- you hire just "fresh graduates" and run a "sweat shop". :-x
- how can they interact at the same level with 'low-qualified" people from your agency ? :icon7:
- they "pay" you ! So aren't they SUPERIOR ? :icon7:
- they are the CUSTOMERS. So shouldn't they be treated like KINGs? :(
Regards.
From India, Delhi
Pray, GO ON.
Its a good start. Pl. keep the movement a-going.
Btw I belong to Corporate HR; but I agree with you.
I would rather use the term Organizational HR (as opposed to Consultancy HR); and let me assure you this treatment is not reserved for just your kind; but HR in real life is mostly In-Human. They treat prospective employees, present employee and past employees the same way; what to talk about Outsiders like you.
They are particularly harsh on you people, because they think:
- you earn easy money (a month's salary for practically doing nothing, except making a few calls) :-x
- you hire just "fresh graduates" and run a "sweat shop". :-x
- how can they interact at the same level with 'low-qualified" people from your agency ? :icon7:
- they "pay" you ! So aren't they SUPERIOR ? :icon7:
- they are the CUSTOMERS. So shouldn't they be treated like KINGs? :(
Regards.
From India, Delhi
Oops...so much emotions!!
Anyways moving back to what you put as shop keeper (lets take garments)- there is a difference between an ordinary garment shop sales person, and a designer wear collection gallery. Do you get what I try to say? Designer collection may already have collections that suit the individuals taste - else, sometimes the consultant there - tries to explain and correct the customer in telling her what exactly suits her and sometimes they go in for custom - made clothing.
Now there is no point in you screaming over here. Just like how you request to REMOVE consultants who dont work professionally, I ask you to remove clients who dont have proper work ethics.
Look Sir / Ma'am! You cant blame someone else if you are not getting the business the WAY you prefer it to be. YOU need to change the mindset of the Corporate poeple, not by just complaining, but by proving through your work.
I dont know if people would laugh here if I say that I DONT KNOW that HR people take commission. Bad if you have known it. Probably you have been doing it.
I love the History of Ambani - not because I got to learn that you need to stuff the money in someone's pocket, because I learnt that "If you love something, love it such a way that you get it the way you want it. But in that process, never shout abt your weakness, or complain abt anyone. Do it in a style that no-one ever knew that you went thru such difficult phases".
If this is how the consulting business is... you should try to create a niche for yourself. Not fall in the category of all those who complaint abt their clients.;-)
Its not just HR processes... be it ANY industry...such things happen.
The Supplier, vendors... consultants (in any field) are treated only on the way they interact. We have 200 suppliers giving us competitive proposals....but we chose the one which has a good working history, with quality work delivery.
I have nothing to do with being angry and suprised over the truth. Should that matter to me? But you seem to be defeding yourself and thanking everyone who empathises you.
What makes you different from other consultants? Dont tell by yourself, make your client talk abt you to others....
From India, Madras
Anyways moving back to what you put as shop keeper (lets take garments)- there is a difference between an ordinary garment shop sales person, and a designer wear collection gallery. Do you get what I try to say? Designer collection may already have collections that suit the individuals taste - else, sometimes the consultant there - tries to explain and correct the customer in telling her what exactly suits her and sometimes they go in for custom - made clothing.
Now there is no point in you screaming over here. Just like how you request to REMOVE consultants who dont work professionally, I ask you to remove clients who dont have proper work ethics.
Look Sir / Ma'am! You cant blame someone else if you are not getting the business the WAY you prefer it to be. YOU need to change the mindset of the Corporate poeple, not by just complaining, but by proving through your work.
I dont know if people would laugh here if I say that I DONT KNOW that HR people take commission. Bad if you have known it. Probably you have been doing it.
I love the History of Ambani - not because I got to learn that you need to stuff the money in someone's pocket, because I learnt that "If you love something, love it such a way that you get it the way you want it. But in that process, never shout abt your weakness, or complain abt anyone. Do it in a style that no-one ever knew that you went thru such difficult phases".
If this is how the consulting business is... you should try to create a niche for yourself. Not fall in the category of all those who complaint abt their clients.;-)
Its not just HR processes... be it ANY industry...such things happen.
The Supplier, vendors... consultants (in any field) are treated only on the way they interact. We have 200 suppliers giving us competitive proposals....but we chose the one which has a good working history, with quality work delivery.
I have nothing to do with being angry and suprised over the truth. Should that matter to me? But you seem to be defeding yourself and thanking everyone who empathises you.
What makes you different from other consultants? Dont tell by yourself, make your client talk abt you to others....
From India, Madras
Dear Asha
There are some universal truths. Rights & wrongs. Ethical practices & unethical practices. Decency & indecency. Corrupt & Uncorrupt, No body can have an "opinion" on these things. You can only take side of some one you identify with.
Ya. as you said...don't complain about anything, don't protest about exploitation, don't complain about slavery (we would still have been slaves if we thought the way you do!!)...great
THEN PLEASE...
...don't complian about Female Insecurity!!
...don't raise your voice!!
I am presuming from your views that you may not have much experience (1 - 2 Yrs?)and that too in 1 -2 companaies in the hiring process or a bit more... and you need to see a lot more happening before you can really understand...what's going on.
Let's finish the discussion here.
Good HR Associates
From India, Chandigarh
There are some universal truths. Rights & wrongs. Ethical practices & unethical practices. Decency & indecency. Corrupt & Uncorrupt, No body can have an "opinion" on these things. You can only take side of some one you identify with.
Ya. as you said...don't complain about anything, don't protest about exploitation, don't complain about slavery (we would still have been slaves if we thought the way you do!!)...great
THEN PLEASE...
...don't complian about Female Insecurity!!
...don't raise your voice!!
I am presuming from your views that you may not have much experience (1 - 2 Yrs?)and that too in 1 -2 companaies in the hiring process or a bit more... and you need to see a lot more happening before you can really understand...what's going on.
Let's finish the discussion here.
Good HR Associates
From India, Chandigarh
Good HR Associates,
Hahaha... the conversation supposed to go till the corporate HR changes their behaviour....
(Don't effort to presume...FYI - I have experience with 5 companies & thats in 5 different countries.)
Dear Asha,
Better to leave this person and conversaion... May god will bless him to understand the indepth purpose/ meaning of views you shared.
..... Regards,
AIM
From Saudi Arabia, Riyadh
Hahaha... the conversation supposed to go till the corporate HR changes their behaviour....
(Don't effort to presume...FYI - I have experience with 5 companies & thats in 5 different countries.)
Dear Asha,
Better to leave this person and conversaion... May god will bless him to understand the indepth purpose/ meaning of views you shared.
..... Regards,
AIM
From Saudi Arabia, Riyadh
Yes - don complain, Act boss!
Pls don compare female insecurity to the way corporates treat staffing consultant. Lame excuse.:icon2:
When did I say that one should not protest against slavery? (don make up stories, esp when you are hyper emotional):mrgreen:
I seriously feel that - you feel under estimated:unsure:. You are waiting for someone to give you a chance:-?. Again I am not blaming you, I am asking you to change the strategy - Instead of saying "Hey why you are treating consultants like this..." change it to "Hey yes - we are not like other consultants.."8)
Simple...change the way people Look at you, not at the whole consultant list!:roll:
My consultants (infact previous co ones), are so spl to me, and we just have the perfect relationship. There exists such consultants too! always in our good books. ETA , is one of them.
Two other consultants too...well more than the name of the company I remember their names - that is the relation we have! They make work really intersting for us too, and "no craps and complaints". very professional and direct.
Hmm abt my experience - you are VERY correct. 2 yrs exp.
One yr as a consultant with a leading ISO certified company (u see - we had always differentiated ourselves from other consultants, and had created a niche for ourselves)...I still receive a good nod when I tell ppl I worked there. So -I am talking to you as a lady who has exp in both - as a consulatnt and an ordinary corporate recruiter (very simple, very low level)
- but all that matters is not YEARS - its the usage of the head and learning to act accordingly. Yes many of us fall in between, but we can ask for a helping hand..not blame the mud!
Even now I am saying, think differently. Position urself differently, no one will put u in the group of consultants who are doing a bad job.... goodluck!
It is so obvious with your words of comparision to VAFI how "grown" with the number of years you are!
God knows if you had the nerve to check what VAFI is abt..
NBSP!
From India, Madras
Pls don compare female insecurity to the way corporates treat staffing consultant. Lame excuse.:icon2:
When did I say that one should not protest against slavery? (don make up stories, esp when you are hyper emotional):mrgreen:
I seriously feel that - you feel under estimated:unsure:. You are waiting for someone to give you a chance:-?. Again I am not blaming you, I am asking you to change the strategy - Instead of saying "Hey why you are treating consultants like this..." change it to "Hey yes - we are not like other consultants.."8)
Simple...change the way people Look at you, not at the whole consultant list!:roll:
My consultants (infact previous co ones), are so spl to me, and we just have the perfect relationship. There exists such consultants too! always in our good books. ETA , is one of them.
Two other consultants too...well more than the name of the company I remember their names - that is the relation we have! They make work really intersting for us too, and "no craps and complaints". very professional and direct.
Hmm abt my experience - you are VERY correct. 2 yrs exp.
One yr as a consultant with a leading ISO certified company (u see - we had always differentiated ourselves from other consultants, and had created a niche for ourselves)...I still receive a good nod when I tell ppl I worked there. So -I am talking to you as a lady who has exp in both - as a consulatnt and an ordinary corporate recruiter (very simple, very low level)
- but all that matters is not YEARS - its the usage of the head and learning to act accordingly. Yes many of us fall in between, but we can ask for a helping hand..not blame the mud!
Even now I am saying, think differently. Position urself differently, no one will put u in the group of consultants who are doing a bad job.... goodluck!
It is so obvious with your words of comparision to VAFI how "grown" with the number of years you are!
God knows if you had the nerve to check what VAFI is abt..
NBSP!
From India, Madras
Hi Your communication made it evident that you had experience in Bangladesh, Uganda, Bhutan, Ethiopia & Libiya! For your next posting in Honolulu...Best of Luck!:icon6: Good HR Associates
From India, Chandigarh
From India, Chandigarh
Dear ALL,
This is getting v. v. interesting, enlightening..... (not to mention a bit personal).
To be honest, there is a lot of LEARNING involved here.
For the first time CONSULTANT Vs CORP. HR relationship is being explored here, threadbare; no-holds-barred.
Please continue.
As on today, perhaps this is the most novel, new, different topic under discussion in this forum. Real learning taking place.
Regards.
From India, Delhi
This is getting v. v. interesting, enlightening..... (not to mention a bit personal).
To be honest, there is a lot of LEARNING involved here.
For the first time CONSULTANT Vs CORP. HR relationship is being explored here, threadbare; no-holds-barred.
Please continue.
As on today, perhaps this is the most novel, new, different topic under discussion in this forum. Real learning taking place.
Regards.
From India, Delhi
Dear Mr. Raj,
If you notice one thing that is very obvious - Good HR associates is trying to highlight abt the corp HR people being bad.
And he / she thanks people who empathize / sympatize with him/her
Finally the way he/she had responded to Amish Bhatt itself says "why on earth would any corporate client want to work with such a consultant?"
Definitely this GHA would be out of my list of screening for good consultants!
From India, Madras
If you notice one thing that is very obvious - Good HR associates is trying to highlight abt the corp HR people being bad.
And he / she thanks people who empathize / sympatize with him/her
Finally the way he/she had responded to Amish Bhatt itself says "why on earth would any corporate client want to work with such a consultant?"
Definitely this GHA would be out of my list of screening for good consultants!
From India, Madras
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