Dear All,
It has become a known fact that JD's are not well read by applicants-reason could be either lack of time or lack of attentiveness by Job seeker or just taking the recruiters word of mouth- I still feel JD's are core part in Recruitment Process.
Discussing senior level postions without proper JD would be utterly confusing for both the applicant & for the other party.It would not be possible for recruiter to set expectations right.
JD's give a clear picture to the applicant apart from the verbal communication done by the job provider.They would never lose their importance- and would continue to be a core of Recruitments.
Thanks
Amith
It has become a known fact that JD's are not well read by applicants-reason could be either lack of time or lack of attentiveness by Job seeker or just taking the recruiters word of mouth- I still feel JD's are core part in Recruitment Process.
Discussing senior level postions without proper JD would be utterly confusing for both the applicant & for the other party.It would not be possible for recruiter to set expectations right.
JD's give a clear picture to the applicant apart from the verbal communication done by the job provider.They would never lose their importance- and would continue to be a core of Recruitments.
Thanks
Amith
Dear hari,
I agree with you but only to an extent as JD's are important for those who work as consultants. I have joined a new consultancy and they don't hav the JDs with which has made my learning cycle a little more longer. So, even if it is not important for the employee but it is useful for those who work on that profile(hiring).
Thanks,
Ridim
From India, Delhi
I agree with you but only to an extent as JD's are important for those who work as consultants. I have joined a new consultancy and they don't hav the JDs with which has made my learning cycle a little more longer. So, even if it is not important for the employee but it is useful for those who work on that profile(hiring).
Thanks,
Ridim
From India, Delhi
Hi Hari,
Nice posting! good discussion friends. I do feel JD is important and in the organisation where I am working we give clear cut JD while joining however some times guys have to do some task which is not menitoned in the JD I think this is how organisations work.
Regards,
Kalyan.:D
From India, Bangalore
2Nice posting! good discussion friends. I do feel JD is important and in the organisation where I am working we give clear cut JD while joining however some times guys have to do some task which is not menitoned in the JD I think this is how organisations work.
Regards,
Kalyan.:D
From India, Bangalore
Sir
I don't agree that job descriptions are useless as they provide a foundation to understand the job in a better way.Though they do not include all the infrmation yet they provide a framework of the job when one goes for recruitment and selection. Without understanding the nature of the job the company would be carried away at the initial phase of recruiting the employees.
akriti
From India, Faridabad
I don't agree that job descriptions are useless as they provide a foundation to understand the job in a better way.Though they do not include all the infrmation yet they provide a framework of the job when one goes for recruitment and selection. Without understanding the nature of the job the company would be carried away at the initial phase of recruiting the employees.
akriti
From India, Faridabad
Hi,
Sorry man...I can't agree with your stand
Job description is the base of any job...when you think in terms of some selected new age jobs/creative jobs or jobs of dynamic nature...to some extend the JD might be irrelevant (it will be difficult to set JD for a movie director). But when we consider manufacturing companies, process based companies or highly customer centric enterprises...we can't even think about jobs without JDs. How we can go for a hire with out a JD? How do you define a Job? Do you think the recruiter will get you a good candidate without proper JD and JS? Ok let's assume you as the HR Head of a company with 5000 people. How do you assess and manage performance of people without JD. Ok imagine you are working with a process based manufacturing company and having 3 recognised trade unions? How do you negotiate production targets without JD? Do you think the employees do any work as per the orders of manager? They will work according to JD/MOU only.
Ok let's take another example from an IT company. You have hired one Project Manager for QA. After couple of months if you ask the PM to do the presales job, you can expect [resignation: 99% career transition: 1%]. Or if that guy is not up to your expectation, how do you persuade him to improve? You can’t say that you don’t like his style…you need to pinpoint performance on the job (based on what? JD, right).
But if you feel that people are not considering JD as reference for their duties...it is the best example for poor management. You will get NC at the time of ISO audit, GMP etc. Also you can’t ensure consistency in productivity, quality or customer service with out JD. In the absence of JD, the actions will become people specific and let’s say 5 yrs down the line when you change the teams, who will take care of process. I am not thinking that you can hire best fit candidates - 100% self motivated for all your jobs. There will be average candiates, freshers and problem people too. The end result would be a highly unsystematic organisation which deliver inconsistent productivity, quality and customer service...obviously your profit would also come down.
The idea of department/team working on its responsibilities is almost similar to SMG (self managed groups) but here also they will not get the right to change core jobs. We can’t equate No JD system to SMG. Ultimately SMG is not a generic system to be followed in any industry and having its own limitations. Imagine a Mechanical Engineer hired for Boiler operations is preparing product brochures or a highly paid S/W Embedded Engineer trained on Advanced Labs is doing project coordination…and the company would be wasting $$ per minute
So think before implementing this in your company...I am not finding any value addition if you hire/maintain employees without JD.
I believe that processes and systems can ensure consistency of performance, quality, service and profitability of any enterprise
From India, Bangalore
Sorry man...I can't agree with your stand
Job description is the base of any job...when you think in terms of some selected new age jobs/creative jobs or jobs of dynamic nature...to some extend the JD might be irrelevant (it will be difficult to set JD for a movie director). But when we consider manufacturing companies, process based companies or highly customer centric enterprises...we can't even think about jobs without JDs. How we can go for a hire with out a JD? How do you define a Job? Do you think the recruiter will get you a good candidate without proper JD and JS? Ok let's assume you as the HR Head of a company with 5000 people. How do you assess and manage performance of people without JD. Ok imagine you are working with a process based manufacturing company and having 3 recognised trade unions? How do you negotiate production targets without JD? Do you think the employees do any work as per the orders of manager? They will work according to JD/MOU only.
Ok let's take another example from an IT company. You have hired one Project Manager for QA. After couple of months if you ask the PM to do the presales job, you can expect [resignation: 99% career transition: 1%]. Or if that guy is not up to your expectation, how do you persuade him to improve? You can’t say that you don’t like his style…you need to pinpoint performance on the job (based on what? JD, right).
But if you feel that people are not considering JD as reference for their duties...it is the best example for poor management. You will get NC at the time of ISO audit, GMP etc. Also you can’t ensure consistency in productivity, quality or customer service with out JD. In the absence of JD, the actions will become people specific and let’s say 5 yrs down the line when you change the teams, who will take care of process. I am not thinking that you can hire best fit candidates - 100% self motivated for all your jobs. There will be average candiates, freshers and problem people too. The end result would be a highly unsystematic organisation which deliver inconsistent productivity, quality and customer service...obviously your profit would also come down.
The idea of department/team working on its responsibilities is almost similar to SMG (self managed groups) but here also they will not get the right to change core jobs. We can’t equate No JD system to SMG. Ultimately SMG is not a generic system to be followed in any industry and having its own limitations. Imagine a Mechanical Engineer hired for Boiler operations is preparing product brochures or a highly paid S/W Embedded Engineer trained on Advanced Labs is doing project coordination…and the company would be wasting $$ per minute
So think before implementing this in your company...I am not finding any value addition if you hire/maintain employees without JD.
I believe that processes and systems can ensure consistency of performance, quality, service and profitability of any enterprise
From India, Bangalore
Sreekumar's post is the best argument for a JD in today's world.
Agreed, a JD based on competencies would be a challenging and exciting concept, but this does apply to jobs where there is flexibility and innovation is possible.
For those jobs which need strict parameters of performance, a detailed job description as per the current system would be more appropriate, save that this should be constantly being revised - if not every year, but at least once in three years, depending upon seniority and responsibilities. That is, a routine job would need revision every three years or so, while a more senior job where a certain amount of flexibility would be worth reviewing at shorter periods.
In the real world, also, the union's participation in reviewing and revising job descriptions is very important, and a basis for bargaining.
So perhaps there should be a mix of constantly reviewed and revised job descriptions for those positions which need strict parameters, and a competency based job description for those positions which are best suited for this kind of constantly reviewed and revised parameter.
What say you?
Jeroo
From India, Mumbai
Agreed, a JD based on competencies would be a challenging and exciting concept, but this does apply to jobs where there is flexibility and innovation is possible.
For those jobs which need strict parameters of performance, a detailed job description as per the current system would be more appropriate, save that this should be constantly being revised - if not every year, but at least once in three years, depending upon seniority and responsibilities. That is, a routine job would need revision every three years or so, while a more senior job where a certain amount of flexibility would be worth reviewing at shorter periods.
In the real world, also, the union's participation in reviewing and revising job descriptions is very important, and a basis for bargaining.
So perhaps there should be a mix of constantly reviewed and revised job descriptions for those positions which need strict parameters, and a competency based job description for those positions which are best suited for this kind of constantly reviewed and revised parameter.
What say you?
Jeroo
From India, Mumbai
Very thought provoking but I do not agree with a lot of points.
To start with the job of HR is not to make just one absolute JD but to keep reviewing it with the HODs and the employee him/herself.
First the structure of the JD should not be just a list of activities but it has to have a column of authorities and responsibilities. It also should very clearly mention if the activity listed is a core activity or secondary activity of the person. It also should mention clearly the abilities required to carry out a particulr job activity. It also should have clearly mentioned the expected results out of a group of activities carried out by the employee.
After every quarter / six months review the JD and amend the changes required. In fact viewing and reviewing the JD should be the core activity at the time of the appraisals and promotions, etc.
I refuse to agree and feel sad to read the statement like "no body reads it anyways". If we make our JDs clear and jargon free, all will read it and if we have the above mentioned points, they will have a chance to read it more often.
Please correct me wherever required.
Archana
P.S. - This all may sound very realistic or idealistic but it is possible and in our organization we do it... Why are we HR people there otherwise.
From India, Mumbai
To start with the job of HR is not to make just one absolute JD but to keep reviewing it with the HODs and the employee him/herself.
First the structure of the JD should not be just a list of activities but it has to have a column of authorities and responsibilities. It also should very clearly mention if the activity listed is a core activity or secondary activity of the person. It also should mention clearly the abilities required to carry out a particulr job activity. It also should have clearly mentioned the expected results out of a group of activities carried out by the employee.
After every quarter / six months review the JD and amend the changes required. In fact viewing and reviewing the JD should be the core activity at the time of the appraisals and promotions, etc.
I refuse to agree and feel sad to read the statement like "no body reads it anyways". If we make our JDs clear and jargon free, all will read it and if we have the above mentioned points, they will have a chance to read it more often.
Please correct me wherever required.
Archana
P.S. - This all may sound very realistic or idealistic but it is possible and in our organization we do it... Why are we HR people there otherwise.
From India, Mumbai
Hi I dont agree . Becz JD’s gives the information of roles and responsibilities and also it gives the idea about the job. Hence in my point of view JD is very important
From India, Hyderabad
From India, Hyderabad
hey
how cud u say that job descriptions r no more needed?????
whatever u said abt working in groups can be happened but only in a group which is working together for quite sometime.....a new person can not do his/her job without a clear job description.........
and how can u judge the performane of an employee without a job description?????
how can u define the key performance areas of that employee?????
n how cud u give him performance appraisals without his/her job description and KPI's?????
rgds,
saan
From Pakistan, Karachi
how cud u say that job descriptions r no more needed?????
whatever u said abt working in groups can be happened but only in a group which is working together for quite sometime.....a new person can not do his/her job without a clear job description.........
and how can u judge the performane of an employee without a job description?????
how can u define the key performance areas of that employee?????
n how cud u give him performance appraisals without his/her job description and KPI's?????
rgds,
saan
From Pakistan, Karachi
Sir
I don't agree that jod discriptions are useless.i feel that it provides a framework regarding the job and is extremely useful when one goes for rectruitment and selection. Unless and until one is not familliar wid the nature of the job,the recruitment of the right kind of people to do the right kind of job becomes a failure.
Due to the dynamic nature of today's businees it is important that if job evaluation is required then there has to be a change in the job discription. thus job discription form the strong foundation for understanding the job.
akriti
From India, Faridabad
I don't agree that jod discriptions are useless.i feel that it provides a framework regarding the job and is extremely useful when one goes for rectruitment and selection. Unless and until one is not familliar wid the nature of the job,the recruitment of the right kind of people to do the right kind of job becomes a failure.
Due to the dynamic nature of today's businees it is important that if job evaluation is required then there has to be a change in the job discription. thus job discription form the strong foundation for understanding the job.
akriti
From India, Faridabad
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