Puja,
First, the statement that you are not the reporting manager and therefore cannot sack or take people to task for improvement in their work is wrong. The way I see it, the owner himself has given you that right.
The solution then, lies along the same lines as you have been following. The next step is to identify people who are the chronic problems. Ask your owner for his help. Set up a one-on-one meeting for the concerned employee with your owner and yourself. During the meeting you can give my very clear warning to the concerned person that he will be removed from service if performance/punctuality/ attendance is not improved. Be ready to back up the allegations with data and impact assessment. Eg cases where his performance affected work or delivery
From India, Mumbai
2392First, the statement that you are not the reporting manager and therefore cannot sack or take people to task for improvement in their work is wrong. The way I see it, the owner himself has given you that right.
The solution then, lies along the same lines as you have been following. The next step is to identify people who are the chronic problems. Ask your owner for his help. Set up a one-on-one meeting for the concerned employee with your owner and yourself. During the meeting you can give my very clear warning to the concerned person that he will be removed from service if performance/punctuality/ attendance is not improved. Be ready to back up the allegations with data and impact assessment. Eg cases where his performance affected work or delivery
From India, Mumbai
Dear Pooja
It is great to hear from you such positive results. If you bring the system to work in line, obviously the discipline, performance and profitability of the organisation will improve.
If you need to sack anyone on the performance basis, please get it recorded through the line manager, after 3 or more memos please issue the show cause notice to the employee and further conduct a proper enquiry proceedings and then finally sack the employee with proper separation process.
From India, Kumbakonam
It is great to hear from you such positive results. If you bring the system to work in line, obviously the discipline, performance and profitability of the organisation will improve.
If you need to sack anyone on the performance basis, please get it recorded through the line manager, after 3 or more memos please issue the show cause notice to the employee and further conduct a proper enquiry proceedings and then finally sack the employee with proper separation process.
From India, Kumbakonam
""Because as an HR I can streamline the process, introduce new policies and maintain the office decorum but would not be able to monitor an individual's performance.""
HR does not monitor individual performances of employees in other departments.HOD is responsible for that.
You can suggest polices but it is the call of higher management to accept or modify or even reject.
Culture of an organisation takes time to settle,so one will have to be patient and continue to motivate people by encouraging positive signs.
Everything takes time,so be possitive and press ahead with good initiatives and involve top management,HOD in all changes
From India, Pune
HR does not monitor individual performances of employees in other departments.HOD is responsible for that.
You can suggest polices but it is the call of higher management to accept or modify or even reject.
Culture of an organisation takes time to settle,so one will have to be patient and continue to motivate people by encouraging positive signs.
Everything takes time,so be possitive and press ahead with good initiatives and involve top management,HOD in all changes
From India, Pune
Hi,
"management is not ready to approve it until and unless the employees don't change their attitude or perform well."......
It's classic example of chichen & egg..... Who comes first...
How do you measure if the employees "perform well"? Do you have a appraisal process setup?
If yes, then based on the reports of this appraisal, you can question their 'value' to the organisation.
If not, then you should setup one.
Secondly, this is not an entirely true statement: "Director doesn't have time to get into all this and that is the reason he has appointed an HR(me)"
There is some organisational communication, which has to be delivered by the top management to become effective. A 'policy' can be questioned by employees, but it is difficult to question a 'Directive'.
About the proposal to "hire a senior person who would keep an eye on their performance and motivate them"... I think it is a whole different point on how to 'motivate' people & just a senior person may not be a complete solution. It will help you pass on the bug though... :-)
Best Regards,
Amod.
"management is not ready to approve it until and unless the employees don't change their attitude or perform well."......
It's classic example of chichen & egg..... Who comes first...
How do you measure if the employees "perform well"? Do you have a appraisal process setup?
If yes, then based on the reports of this appraisal, you can question their 'value' to the organisation.
If not, then you should setup one.
Secondly, this is not an entirely true statement: "Director doesn't have time to get into all this and that is the reason he has appointed an HR(me)"
There is some organisational communication, which has to be delivered by the top management to become effective. A 'policy' can be questioned by employees, but it is difficult to question a 'Directive'.
About the proposal to "hire a senior person who would keep an eye on their performance and motivate them"... I think it is a whole different point on how to 'motivate' people & just a senior person may not be a complete solution. It will help you pass on the bug though... :-)
Best Regards,
Amod.
To those who commented on my posting, let me offer a few further words.
I am well aware there are labour (and other) laws in India. I would assume that most of the bigger organisations in India would comply with those laws. Whether some of those laws are in step with labour laws in western countries, is a matter I have no direct knowledge.
My comments about HR practices that I find appalling relate to things that I have read here, ie, people being sacked without due cause, indenturing people for several years and not allowing them to leave, withholding original certificates etc, to force people to stay (aka slavery), sacking pregnant women, and the list goes on.
Leave is a touchy subject - anywhere in the world.
I will say up front that Australians are not much better when it comes to leave. We have extremely high absentee rates here as everywhere else. Studies have shown that Australian employers lose billions of dollars over a year due to absenteeism.
Australians, like other nationalities, are fond of using sick leave for other purposes, aka "a doona day", where they just can't be bothered getting out of bed! Sick leave skyrockets on Fridays and Mondays, Fridays because they want a "long weekend" and Mondays, because they partied too much at the weekend.
Australia is maybe a little different to India, in that we only work a 5 day week in the main. Saturdays and Sundays are off days, so people have an opportunity to do personal things at weekends. We also have 4 weeks annual vacation leave, which many people tend to break up into small holidays during the year, rather than take it all in one go. In many companies, you can also carry leave over to the following year, so if planning a long holiday overseas, you could take 8 weeks of fully paid leave - subject of course to operational requirements.
Sick leave etc, is now mostly called personal leave, and encompasses being sick, medical appointments, leave for funerals, looking after sick children, aged relatives etc etc. I am not sure what the current awards give, but in my last position (government job), I got 21 days a year of personal leave. If I didn't use it, then it accumulated. I worked with people that had more than 24 months of accumulated sick leave. Quite handy if you get a serious illness. I was once off sick for 8 weeks, and had more than enough leave to cover it.
I would also point out that sick leave in particular is controlled to the extent that most employers will allow a person to take up to 4 single days in a year (in most cases) without a medical certificate, and no questions asked. Most employers will not allow an employee to take more than 2 consecutive days without a certificate. It has created a lot of debate here. If you get a cold, which could lead you to require say 3 days bed rest, you must go to the doctor and get a certificate, even though the doctor can basically do nothing for you other that order bed rest! The cost of seeing the doctor makes people reassess the need to stay home. That of course also leads to the problem of sick people presenting for work, and infecting everyone else in the office!
But, Australians do abuse the system, and once they have used up their vacation leave, start using up their sick leave for reasons other than being sick.
Leave without pay is another option, and some people will forego a day's pay, if they have no other options.
This is a very simplistic view of the situation here, but I reiterate that we are by no means perfect here, and I never said we were.
I hope that clarifies my comments.
From Australia, Melbourne
I am well aware there are labour (and other) laws in India. I would assume that most of the bigger organisations in India would comply with those laws. Whether some of those laws are in step with labour laws in western countries, is a matter I have no direct knowledge.
My comments about HR practices that I find appalling relate to things that I have read here, ie, people being sacked without due cause, indenturing people for several years and not allowing them to leave, withholding original certificates etc, to force people to stay (aka slavery), sacking pregnant women, and the list goes on.
Leave is a touchy subject - anywhere in the world.
I will say up front that Australians are not much better when it comes to leave. We have extremely high absentee rates here as everywhere else. Studies have shown that Australian employers lose billions of dollars over a year due to absenteeism.
Australians, like other nationalities, are fond of using sick leave for other purposes, aka "a doona day", where they just can't be bothered getting out of bed! Sick leave skyrockets on Fridays and Mondays, Fridays because they want a "long weekend" and Mondays, because they partied too much at the weekend.
Australia is maybe a little different to India, in that we only work a 5 day week in the main. Saturdays and Sundays are off days, so people have an opportunity to do personal things at weekends. We also have 4 weeks annual vacation leave, which many people tend to break up into small holidays during the year, rather than take it all in one go. In many companies, you can also carry leave over to the following year, so if planning a long holiday overseas, you could take 8 weeks of fully paid leave - subject of course to operational requirements.
Sick leave etc, is now mostly called personal leave, and encompasses being sick, medical appointments, leave for funerals, looking after sick children, aged relatives etc etc. I am not sure what the current awards give, but in my last position (government job), I got 21 days a year of personal leave. If I didn't use it, then it accumulated. I worked with people that had more than 24 months of accumulated sick leave. Quite handy if you get a serious illness. I was once off sick for 8 weeks, and had more than enough leave to cover it.
I would also point out that sick leave in particular is controlled to the extent that most employers will allow a person to take up to 4 single days in a year (in most cases) without a medical certificate, and no questions asked. Most employers will not allow an employee to take more than 2 consecutive days without a certificate. It has created a lot of debate here. If you get a cold, which could lead you to require say 3 days bed rest, you must go to the doctor and get a certificate, even though the doctor can basically do nothing for you other that order bed rest! The cost of seeing the doctor makes people reassess the need to stay home. That of course also leads to the problem of sick people presenting for work, and infecting everyone else in the office!
But, Australians do abuse the system, and once they have used up their vacation leave, start using up their sick leave for reasons other than being sick.
Leave without pay is another option, and some people will forego a day's pay, if they have no other options.
This is a very simplistic view of the situation here, but I reiterate that we are by no means perfect here, and I never said we were.
I hope that clarifies my comments.
From Australia, Melbourne
Hi Friend
We also face the same issue and started a message given to those who are late through SMS to their cell phone and pass information to down the line ie we recorded his late comming. We control and get good result. Now the late coming is drastically down and no issue
From India, Chennai
We also face the same issue and started a message given to those who are late through SMS to their cell phone and pass information to down the line ie we recorded his late comming. We control and get good result. Now the late coming is drastically down and no issue
From India, Chennai
Late coming is a problem in many offices.
Some people are habitual latecomers,while some get delayed due to genuine reasons,while some more get stuck due to rains,late trains,buses etc.
If possible there should be a flexibility in attendance system where a time range of 30 minutes can be specified to cater for such delays.
Intentional late comers need to be identified and counselled first to inculcate the habit of coming on time.
Sending SMS,phone calls are some methods,but basically identify why people are coming late by discussion with employees and try to accommodate without diluting output and working culture.
From India, Pune
Some people are habitual latecomers,while some get delayed due to genuine reasons,while some more get stuck due to rains,late trains,buses etc.
If possible there should be a flexibility in attendance system where a time range of 30 minutes can be specified to cater for such delays.
Intentional late comers need to be identified and counselled first to inculcate the habit of coming on time.
Sending SMS,phone calls are some methods,but basically identify why people are coming late by discussion with employees and try to accommodate without diluting output and working culture.
From India, Pune
Dear John,
As already acknowledged by our many other senior members, this forum is to provide a 'reference' to people who could see different opinions, & choose the best practices from these views, for their own work-styles.
Sometimes, it is easy to get emotional about these subjects, but once on public media, our views & expressions remain there forever.
I appreciate a lot your second response which is much more sober & suitable to the forum. Going beyond the boundries of Indian or Australian practices, this worldwide web online communicty should be on one same side of "Human Resources". It is very nice to see that people have started contributing from out of India, to broaden our views as well.
Please keep contributing your best experiences & thoughts for the further use of the comunity.
Thanks and Best Regards,
Amod Boabde.
As already acknowledged by our many other senior members, this forum is to provide a 'reference' to people who could see different opinions, & choose the best practices from these views, for their own work-styles.
Sometimes, it is easy to get emotional about these subjects, but once on public media, our views & expressions remain there forever.
I appreciate a lot your second response which is much more sober & suitable to the forum. Going beyond the boundries of Indian or Australian practices, this worldwide web online communicty should be on one same side of "Human Resources". It is very nice to see that people have started contributing from out of India, to broaden our views as well.
Please keep contributing your best experiences & thoughts for the further use of the comunity.
Thanks and Best Regards,
Amod Boabde.
Ms Pooja,You have a strength in your organization of 30. If its manufacturing place, it should be "factory" and Indian Factories Act is applicable. If its commercial set up - it should be Shops and Establishment Act. Many colleagues have referred you to go for modest change. Before change management is practiced, its rather obligatory to start with self ie the organization. You need to implement atleast legal obligations like Leave rules as standard practice and then act in concert with all HODs.on Change management is not the job of only HR- its job of every body. Please make your best effort to accept this process of modeling by owners then it can happen, and there is tangible and intangible gains also else it is a tough going and you will fail in your efforts.
Thanks and regards,
RDS Yadav
Management Adviser and Trainer
Director-Future Institute of Management and Technology
From India, Delhi
Thanks and regards,
RDS Yadav
Management Adviser and Trainer
Director-Future Institute of Management and Technology
From India, Delhi
Dear Seniors,
I need your valuable suggestions.again.
Recently we have started a new policy that if someone takes an unplanned leave in any case on Monday, his/her Sat & Sun will also be counted as leave (because we had many cases of unplanned leave on Mondays). Now few days back an employee took leave on Monday as he was unwell (informed 3 hours before the shift time) and requested me not to count Sat & Sun in his leave account. As an HR I refused to accept it as people may take advantage of it in future and asked him to talk to the Director (as we don't have any reporting manager as such).and if he permits then only I can consider his (employee) request. The director is not so happy with it, he says I should have taken this decision & no employee should come to him for such things. I am hesitant to take such decisions as I am not the reporting manager of any employee and if I do people will start hating me and that will become a awkward situation for me to survive in the company. As per Director I have full authority to take decisions but the information has not been communicated to the employees. So, I think the situation demands that I need to work as an HR as well as their reporting mgr. Please suggest.
Regards,
Pooja
From India, Gurgaon
I need your valuable suggestions.again.
Recently we have started a new policy that if someone takes an unplanned leave in any case on Monday, his/her Sat & Sun will also be counted as leave (because we had many cases of unplanned leave on Mondays). Now few days back an employee took leave on Monday as he was unwell (informed 3 hours before the shift time) and requested me not to count Sat & Sun in his leave account. As an HR I refused to accept it as people may take advantage of it in future and asked him to talk to the Director (as we don't have any reporting manager as such).and if he permits then only I can consider his (employee) request. The director is not so happy with it, he says I should have taken this decision & no employee should come to him for such things. I am hesitant to take such decisions as I am not the reporting manager of any employee and if I do people will start hating me and that will become a awkward situation for me to survive in the company. As per Director I have full authority to take decisions but the information has not been communicated to the employees. So, I think the situation demands that I need to work as an HR as well as their reporting mgr. Please suggest.
Regards,
Pooja
From India, Gurgaon
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