Sumant_jo,
The kind of damage unetheical and murky HR does is more. Shutting your eyes is not solution. These guys are primarily responsible for system in a company. These fellows are double times responsible for all mess in one company. Look at the companies. 90% issues are not related to work at all. Responsible HR will sort out the problem, but irresponsible ones will add to the problem. We are angry because we find poisoned environment in companies due to inaction from HR side. There is something more than meets the eye.
Vidya,
During my career of 12 years, no HR ever came back to me with Feedback.
=======
If we need to overcome problems poured on us by these HR fellows, we have to be little cautious in dealing with them right from start of the engagement.
LoveBird,
I see anger and frustration in your views. I understand, You are not alone. We are riding same boat. We experience and see daily in our office, what goes around, how it goes and see the grieving souls. We are in state because we never challenged the mighty ones. To some extent, HR has twisted rules to suit them and all contract signed are one sided. Candidate is always a weak entity to go against these HR fellows.
From India, Ghaziabad
10The kind of damage unetheical and murky HR does is more. Shutting your eyes is not solution. These guys are primarily responsible for system in a company. These fellows are double times responsible for all mess in one company. Look at the companies. 90% issues are not related to work at all. Responsible HR will sort out the problem, but irresponsible ones will add to the problem. We are angry because we find poisoned environment in companies due to inaction from HR side. There is something more than meets the eye.
Vidya,
During my career of 12 years, no HR ever came back to me with Feedback.
=======
If we need to overcome problems poured on us by these HR fellows, we have to be little cautious in dealing with them right from start of the engagement.
LoveBird,
I see anger and frustration in your views. I understand, You are not alone. We are riding same boat. We experience and see daily in our office, what goes around, how it goes and see the grieving souls. We are in state because we never challenged the mighty ones. To some extent, HR has twisted rules to suit them and all contract signed are one sided. Candidate is always a weak entity to go against these HR fellows.
From India, Ghaziabad
Dear India Rebel,
Even in my small experience of about 2.5 yrs, out of which only one yr in Pvt Sector and the rest in Govt Sector, I observed that the stressing on Human Factor is more in Govt Sector, wherein the people are not even MBA HR or having any Management qualifications. Still understand the human factor more than Pvt Sector HR.
I think in Pvt Sector the HR is not at all transparent, their recruitment procedures, releiving procedures should be transparent and should be available to any employee on demand, but most HR become hostile when employee resigns and out of the fact that they have more work bcoz the employee is leaving, their attitude changes towards the employee and ultimately results in harassment of employee.
The best part, no HR ever practices what he studied in MBA / PG etc.
This is really hurting to all employees, and now no employee trusts HR. Even outsidethe company no one likes to make friends with HR. As anytime the HR can use the employees behaviour as reference for their performance appraisal..
What should be done to change this scenario,
may be there should be one more dept of grievance and vigilance to keep watch on HR... so that they not misuse their power and position. and that dept should have members who are neutral to Hr AND EMPLOYEES ..
WAT YA SAY :)
From India, Pune
Even in my small experience of about 2.5 yrs, out of which only one yr in Pvt Sector and the rest in Govt Sector, I observed that the stressing on Human Factor is more in Govt Sector, wherein the people are not even MBA HR or having any Management qualifications. Still understand the human factor more than Pvt Sector HR.
I think in Pvt Sector the HR is not at all transparent, their recruitment procedures, releiving procedures should be transparent and should be available to any employee on demand, but most HR become hostile when employee resigns and out of the fact that they have more work bcoz the employee is leaving, their attitude changes towards the employee and ultimately results in harassment of employee.
The best part, no HR ever practices what he studied in MBA / PG etc.
This is really hurting to all employees, and now no employee trusts HR. Even outsidethe company no one likes to make friends with HR. As anytime the HR can use the employees behaviour as reference for their performance appraisal..
What should be done to change this scenario,
may be there should be one more dept of grievance and vigilance to keep watch on HR... so that they not misuse their power and position. and that dept should have members who are neutral to Hr AND EMPLOYEES ..
WAT YA SAY :)
From India, Pune
Hi Dear,
I appreciate your efforts to put your concerns on this website.
Human mind put things in this way
Listens view (people's view) ----> develops a view -----> gives opinion-----> make a conviction (Based on Experience)-------> Develop a belief (on the basis of all three) -----> And lastly develops an attitude on such belief.
No issues we all are getting in touch when you have passed all stages.
Now what all you have putted is based on your belief.
Let me explain couple of things to you . HR Dept is generally subfunctioned into
Recruitment
Payroll
Establishment
Vigilance & Corporate Affairs
& Employee Relations.
All the things put t forwarded by you talks about Employee Relations at Major , so I hope HR Friends serving other Sub- Functions are directly out of the preview and their effectiveness cannot be challenged by you on conveyed anecdotes/experiences.
one should HR is also working under management, and it can get solutions only and only if they are approved by managemnt. Examples like canteen , you go anywhere there will a no. of people who are not satisfied . In such cases you cannot expect a universal solution. You can try and tend to reach towards the best.
If you question the selection in HR then such possibility can be there in Development Department/Operations also. This cannot be a very specific and only in HR periphery. Vacancy in HR are much less than the Operations. There are People who try to influence the selection but its the duty of HR / Recruiter to do the job as per the guidelines of the office.
And in last I will give you example ,in one renowned organization there was a guy who performed well at client site. After his return , Client again wanted to avail the same person at the site. When his organization conveyed this message to this employee he made it clear to the HR Department that he can go only and only if his company hire his wife and send her with him to the site., And it happened. His wife was not at par with him in performance but still she was hired and sent with her.
Moral is : On the basis of such cases one should not develop a belief/ conviction/Attitude towards the whole fraternity.
Regards,
Tikam - Pune
From India, Pune
I appreciate your efforts to put your concerns on this website.
Human mind put things in this way
Listens view (people's view) ----> develops a view -----> gives opinion-----> make a conviction (Based on Experience)-------> Develop a belief (on the basis of all three) -----> And lastly develops an attitude on such belief.
No issues we all are getting in touch when you have passed all stages.
Now what all you have putted is based on your belief.
Let me explain couple of things to you . HR Dept is generally subfunctioned into
Recruitment
Payroll
Establishment
Vigilance & Corporate Affairs
& Employee Relations.
All the things put t forwarded by you talks about Employee Relations at Major , so I hope HR Friends serving other Sub- Functions are directly out of the preview and their effectiveness cannot be challenged by you on conveyed anecdotes/experiences.
one should HR is also working under management, and it can get solutions only and only if they are approved by managemnt. Examples like canteen , you go anywhere there will a no. of people who are not satisfied . In such cases you cannot expect a universal solution. You can try and tend to reach towards the best.
If you question the selection in HR then such possibility can be there in Development Department/Operations also. This cannot be a very specific and only in HR periphery. Vacancy in HR are much less than the Operations. There are People who try to influence the selection but its the duty of HR / Recruiter to do the job as per the guidelines of the office.
And in last I will give you example ,in one renowned organization there was a guy who performed well at client site. After his return , Client again wanted to avail the same person at the site. When his organization conveyed this message to this employee he made it clear to the HR Department that he can go only and only if his company hire his wife and send her with him to the site., And it happened. His wife was not at par with him in performance but still she was hired and sent with her.
Moral is : On the basis of such cases one should not develop a belief/ conviction/Attitude towards the whole fraternity.
Regards,
Tikam - Pune
From India, Pune
Hi Tikam,
With all due respect towards the HR fraternity. We want to trust them but their actions force us to not to trust them anymore.
Another problems with HR fellows are, they are either bookish or inefficient. I read lot of bookish stuff on HR practices, this or that. In reality, its all very action which is visible on the ground. And picture does not look very rosy!!!!
From India, Ghaziabad
With all due respect towards the HR fraternity. We want to trust them but their actions force us to not to trust them anymore.
Another problems with HR fellows are, they are either bookish or inefficient. I read lot of bookish stuff on HR practices, this or that. In reality, its all very action which is visible on the ground. And picture does not look very rosy!!!!
From India, Ghaziabad
Seems alll this is written of sheer frustration, Would suggest do not make a general comment based on your perception.
Ok...I think I am too amature to answer your question but than I have an answer and I will give it a shot. I am just an MBA student (ya! an HR student of course)....Currently I am doing my summer internship at GE (a fortune 6 company) and I think I am honoured to be doing a project on HR (and not marketing or fin or IT).
Why? Coz of what I have seen and experienced....I have the best project in hand and I am really doing some "real" work and not just trying to check if I can sell "credit cards" or "insurance".
People say HR are the last ones to enter the office and the first ones to leave...No! Not correct....two weeks in GE...I have observed...they are the first ones to come and the last ones to leave.
When did they take the last feedback from employees....?? All the time...GE has the best feedback system in place and processes are changed in a big way depending on the responses received. I have been asked to take some feedback from employees and I am glad there are employees who still believe that the initiates by the HR department does make a difference. Its a two way process.....!!
I am sorry you have a crappy HR system in your organisation and they are doing very crappy jobs...."hiring crappy people!!, implementing useless policies...etc"......My emphaties to you dear sir.......!! however considering you receive 4-5 offers in day and you hate the HR dept in your office....I am really surprised you have nt thought of thinking of switching your job!!
Moreover, you should have been the last person to have asked this questions...Coz I presume you are an engineer (I may be wrong...Pls take my apologies if thats the case). In India everybody is an engineer from some "far-flunged" college or other...very 3 out of 5 graduate is an engineer...but then we cant compare them with the guys from IITs, right? It would nt be fair. So, its not very good on your part to generalise the entire HR population at one off experience.
There will always be somebody not working in every functions but to make "HR" the scapegoat for all your failures.....thats idiotic.
Hope you have your answer now.
Regards,
From India, Bangalore
Why? Coz of what I have seen and experienced....I have the best project in hand and I am really doing some "real" work and not just trying to check if I can sell "credit cards" or "insurance".
People say HR are the last ones to enter the office and the first ones to leave...No! Not correct....two weeks in GE...I have observed...they are the first ones to come and the last ones to leave.
When did they take the last feedback from employees....?? All the time...GE has the best feedback system in place and processes are changed in a big way depending on the responses received. I have been asked to take some feedback from employees and I am glad there are employees who still believe that the initiates by the HR department does make a difference. Its a two way process.....!!
I am sorry you have a crappy HR system in your organisation and they are doing very crappy jobs...."hiring crappy people!!, implementing useless policies...etc"......My emphaties to you dear sir.......!! however considering you receive 4-5 offers in day and you hate the HR dept in your office....I am really surprised you have nt thought of thinking of switching your job!!
Moreover, you should have been the last person to have asked this questions...Coz I presume you are an engineer (I may be wrong...Pls take my apologies if thats the case). In India everybody is an engineer from some "far-flunged" college or other...very 3 out of 5 graduate is an engineer...but then we cant compare them with the guys from IITs, right? It would nt be fair. So, its not very good on your part to generalise the entire HR population at one off experience.
There will always be somebody not working in every functions but to make "HR" the scapegoat for all your failures.....thats idiotic.
Hope you have your answer now.
Regards,
From India, Bangalore
Dear I_R, Just one confusion...!! You said HR ppl are busy in hiring Management’s relatives....So are you one of those relatives??
From Philippines
From Philippines
Dear Friend,
I empathise you for the kind of HR system your company has..
HR is said to be bridge between management and employees, but i feel both the parties consider them a garbage dumps..(dump the frustrations)..Management hires HR only to escape from employees
Employee satisfaction is only possible when higher management intervenes
same is the case with technical staff, they never spare time for any changes.....i conducted satisfaction survey twice last year, none of them came forward, only when i made it to fill in anonymous few came forward to write down their complaints.. which we could satisfy the very next month.
instead employees cursing HRs or just considering them mere complaint box...if they can come forward..share their ideas.. give their time....a lot can be done.
Management considers HR only as a support function......and tries to dump all the work right from training office boys to housekeeping.. and use them as a receptionist to a sales girl promoting companies brand......what kind of policies will she be able to make..and to what extent will she be able to satisy employees needs........???????
From India, Hyderabad
I empathise you for the kind of HR system your company has..
HR is said to be bridge between management and employees, but i feel both the parties consider them a garbage dumps..(dump the frustrations)..Management hires HR only to escape from employees
Employee satisfaction is only possible when higher management intervenes
same is the case with technical staff, they never spare time for any changes.....i conducted satisfaction survey twice last year, none of them came forward, only when i made it to fill in anonymous few came forward to write down their complaints.. which we could satisfy the very next month.
instead employees cursing HRs or just considering them mere complaint box...if they can come forward..share their ideas.. give their time....a lot can be done.
Management considers HR only as a support function......and tries to dump all the work right from training office boys to housekeeping.. and use them as a receptionist to a sales girl promoting companies brand......what kind of policies will she be able to make..and to what extent will she be able to satisy employees needs........???????
From India, Hyderabad
It really pains me to read your mail India rebel. Looks like you have been in the wrong place for quite a long time. Time to breath fresh air.
Blame no. 1
The atmosphere at office is worsened by HR
My Opinion: The atmosphere goes for a toss only if managers and project leads or the immediate head (applies to tech staff as well) cannot behave professionally. They have problems getting along with the team. But unfortunately the scapegoat is the HR department to blame. Why cant you fellows change your immediate surroundings to a more positive one by your own effort? Should your wait always for others in totally different departments unrelated to the scenario to intervene for all petty matters that are blown out of proportion?
Blame -2
EMPLOYEE FEEDBACKS ARE NOT CONSIDERED
!!!! my dear friend let me tell you again do not generalise this statement. It maybe applicable to certain companies but not all. If that was the case, Infosys, Wipro, Mindtree Consulting etc would not have figured out in the list of companies that are employee caring.
For your kind understanding, in my company we have an open system of taking feedback from employees as and when they give it. Over and above this, the employee satisfaction and feedback survey is conducted EVERY QUARTER.
Blame -3
Canteens do not serve tasty food. The HR department has failed to change this.
The taste buds of people vary. You may like and relish a particular dish which may not go well with another person. So do you expect your management to run multiple cusines like south indian, north indian, chinese, continental, thai etc for people that too in a subsidised canteen? hew!
First find out if your company is willing to bear the cost of getting a different catering agency at additional costs before blatently blaming the HR department. OR do you expect the members in the department to themselves cook in the canteens to make it better? (as you say the responsibility of HR!)
Blame - 4
People recruit only their relatives in the HR department.
My dear REBEL, I suggest you to kindly take a look at various cpompanies before making such one sided or partially correct statements. I would like to know if all MNC's are having a mini home beyond home with their relatives in the HR department? Imagine IBM Dell Microsoft, Etc HAVING A WHOLE FAMILY IN THE HR DEPARTMENT! Ridiculous!
To give you an example: Imagine X, his father, daughter, son, his friend, the friends sister, sisters relative, so on and so forth belonging to the HR department of a corporate! unthinkable. I dont know how you could think of one frankly.
References are most welcome in any company this policy has been a time tested one for a simple reason that the person referring the other can be accountable and could be a trusted source.
Yes workplace politics does exist everywhere. people are bent on bringing their own relatives to workplace. But let me tell you this happens even with the techies. They are no saints. If a techie refers a candidate to the HR they would certainly prefer to hire him if he has the right skills. So in your words does that mean the techies are running their family tree in a company ?
BLAME 5
HR is all about bookish nonsense
where does your technical knowledge come from books or microchips? during your education was the knowledge transferred through some other source? i never knew! well all knowledge comes from books and experience. Whatever is in the books has to be executed effectively.That is when the true meaning of the same is realised.
Instead of involving in the blame game why dont you design some employee friendly policy and present it to the management? or if you cannot do that why dont you atleast help the HR department make your office a better place to work?
Before blaming the entire fraternity of HR, try to understand if your management is employee centric or cost & profit centric. This would probably enlighten you to some extent in understanding the department. End of the day even the HR has to act according to the policies set by the management.
I would like to ask you certain things:
If all HR have treated you so badly why are you still working in the same conditions? cant you take some initiative to change it?
Is your department running on the principles of six sigma, without any flaws?
Mistakes are a part of mankind. No man is perfect. It all relys on how we strive towards perfection.
From India, Bangalore
Blame no. 1
The atmosphere at office is worsened by HR
My Opinion: The atmosphere goes for a toss only if managers and project leads or the immediate head (applies to tech staff as well) cannot behave professionally. They have problems getting along with the team. But unfortunately the scapegoat is the HR department to blame. Why cant you fellows change your immediate surroundings to a more positive one by your own effort? Should your wait always for others in totally different departments unrelated to the scenario to intervene for all petty matters that are blown out of proportion?
Blame -2
EMPLOYEE FEEDBACKS ARE NOT CONSIDERED
!!!! my dear friend let me tell you again do not generalise this statement. It maybe applicable to certain companies but not all. If that was the case, Infosys, Wipro, Mindtree Consulting etc would not have figured out in the list of companies that are employee caring.
For your kind understanding, in my company we have an open system of taking feedback from employees as and when they give it. Over and above this, the employee satisfaction and feedback survey is conducted EVERY QUARTER.
Blame -3
Canteens do not serve tasty food. The HR department has failed to change this.
The taste buds of people vary. You may like and relish a particular dish which may not go well with another person. So do you expect your management to run multiple cusines like south indian, north indian, chinese, continental, thai etc for people that too in a subsidised canteen? hew!
First find out if your company is willing to bear the cost of getting a different catering agency at additional costs before blatently blaming the HR department. OR do you expect the members in the department to themselves cook in the canteens to make it better? (as you say the responsibility of HR!)
Blame - 4
People recruit only their relatives in the HR department.
My dear REBEL, I suggest you to kindly take a look at various cpompanies before making such one sided or partially correct statements. I would like to know if all MNC's are having a mini home beyond home with their relatives in the HR department? Imagine IBM Dell Microsoft, Etc HAVING A WHOLE FAMILY IN THE HR DEPARTMENT! Ridiculous!
To give you an example: Imagine X, his father, daughter, son, his friend, the friends sister, sisters relative, so on and so forth belonging to the HR department of a corporate! unthinkable. I dont know how you could think of one frankly.
References are most welcome in any company this policy has been a time tested one for a simple reason that the person referring the other can be accountable and could be a trusted source.
Yes workplace politics does exist everywhere. people are bent on bringing their own relatives to workplace. But let me tell you this happens even with the techies. They are no saints. If a techie refers a candidate to the HR they would certainly prefer to hire him if he has the right skills. So in your words does that mean the techies are running their family tree in a company ?
BLAME 5
HR is all about bookish nonsense
where does your technical knowledge come from books or microchips? during your education was the knowledge transferred through some other source? i never knew! well all knowledge comes from books and experience. Whatever is in the books has to be executed effectively.That is when the true meaning of the same is realised.
Instead of involving in the blame game why dont you design some employee friendly policy and present it to the management? or if you cannot do that why dont you atleast help the HR department make your office a better place to work?
Before blaming the entire fraternity of HR, try to understand if your management is employee centric or cost & profit centric. This would probably enlighten you to some extent in understanding the department. End of the day even the HR has to act according to the policies set by the management.
I would like to ask you certain things:
If all HR have treated you so badly why are you still working in the same conditions? cant you take some initiative to change it?
Is your department running on the principles of six sigma, without any flaws?
Mistakes are a part of mankind. No man is perfect. It all relys on how we strive towards perfection.
From India, Bangalore
Hi Mr. or Ms. India Rebel,
Sorry - I dont have your name so i cannot address you correctly.
You are right when you say that HR practises are faulty and cause more problems (you used the term 'mess') in the organization. One of the chief causes of problems in the organization is wrong recruitment.
I am an HR professional with 14 years experience in a variety of industries with both international and national organizations. I have done or been part of 3 formal employee satisfaction surveys, along with taking regular informal feedback by simply listening to employees. I learnt this from my first HR head and I agree with his view that this is the only way an HR person would be effective in his role. Of course, you need to work on developing the employees' trust first.
I am attempting some guesses at your situation - present and past. Let me know how accurate I am.
What you describe as a work environment appears to be similar or actually a family run organization. Having worked in one, I am aware how frustrating it is when you want to be impartial and have performance focussed culture.
Ethics are almost always stretched in these type of organizations.
Going by your comments, it is apparent that you have worked in a number of such organizations OR are working under some manager who subcribes to nepotism. Yes these exist in all organizations in one form or another. For eg. I know a senior manager who has a preference for armed forces background in his team - simply because he is from the same background. I had quite a time managing his expectations, because he would not see the wood for the trees.
Please understand that HR is the most frustrating job after administration - in any organization. Simply because we deal with people (who are unpredictable by default) and not software or hardware processes which though standardised - still give errors. I think Scott Adams said "To err is human, but to really foul things up - you need a computer". :) But I digress... sorry.
As others before me have said - you cannot generalise or condemn the entire profession going by the actions of a few! I understand that these are your experiences and therefore are TRUTH to you, and others like Snowbird who have had similar experiences. In any profession, a bad few tend to cause suspicion to fall on innocent others.
You had also mentioned something on the lines of "not putting education into practise". Except for a few disciplines like CA or ICWA or CS or LLB, putting education into practise is a difficult task. A friend faced a similar shock when he tried to understand why companies DONT do things which make them employee friendly (as described in various management books). It took a lot of counselling to make him understand that all companies exist for profit first, everything else - including people afterwards. :( Thus it is management policy which drives HR behavior & HR policy most of the time. Blaming HR all the time would be futile. Even the institutes which create such management graduates are more interested in money and student numbers rather than imparting education and training to their customers. I have interviewed a number of freshers who dont have their basics in place - at the time of the final semesters. What then would you comment about education institutes? Are all bad? Would you argue that it is what the student utilizes of the education that counts? Then you are not generalizing anymore.
All HR professionals are aware that they cannot keep each and every employee happy 100% of the time. That is a dream - nothing more than an illusion which we all learn in college and Bschools and assume to be true. Then Reality bites quite hard.
If your value system doesn't permit you to accept this, then perhaps the best thing you could do for yourself is leave your current organization.
Overall, I was not able to understand the purpose of your posting. :p So I don't know if I have clarified anything to you.:cool::rolleyes:
Regards
Ryan
From India, Mumbai
Sorry - I dont have your name so i cannot address you correctly.
You are right when you say that HR practises are faulty and cause more problems (you used the term 'mess') in the organization. One of the chief causes of problems in the organization is wrong recruitment.
I am an HR professional with 14 years experience in a variety of industries with both international and national organizations. I have done or been part of 3 formal employee satisfaction surveys, along with taking regular informal feedback by simply listening to employees. I learnt this from my first HR head and I agree with his view that this is the only way an HR person would be effective in his role. Of course, you need to work on developing the employees' trust first.
I am attempting some guesses at your situation - present and past. Let me know how accurate I am.
What you describe as a work environment appears to be similar or actually a family run organization. Having worked in one, I am aware how frustrating it is when you want to be impartial and have performance focussed culture.
Ethics are almost always stretched in these type of organizations.
Going by your comments, it is apparent that you have worked in a number of such organizations OR are working under some manager who subcribes to nepotism. Yes these exist in all organizations in one form or another. For eg. I know a senior manager who has a preference for armed forces background in his team - simply because he is from the same background. I had quite a time managing his expectations, because he would not see the wood for the trees.
Please understand that HR is the most frustrating job after administration - in any organization. Simply because we deal with people (who are unpredictable by default) and not software or hardware processes which though standardised - still give errors. I think Scott Adams said "To err is human, but to really foul things up - you need a computer". :) But I digress... sorry.
As others before me have said - you cannot generalise or condemn the entire profession going by the actions of a few! I understand that these are your experiences and therefore are TRUTH to you, and others like Snowbird who have had similar experiences. In any profession, a bad few tend to cause suspicion to fall on innocent others.
You had also mentioned something on the lines of "not putting education into practise". Except for a few disciplines like CA or ICWA or CS or LLB, putting education into practise is a difficult task. A friend faced a similar shock when he tried to understand why companies DONT do things which make them employee friendly (as described in various management books). It took a lot of counselling to make him understand that all companies exist for profit first, everything else - including people afterwards. :( Thus it is management policy which drives HR behavior & HR policy most of the time. Blaming HR all the time would be futile. Even the institutes which create such management graduates are more interested in money and student numbers rather than imparting education and training to their customers. I have interviewed a number of freshers who dont have their basics in place - at the time of the final semesters. What then would you comment about education institutes? Are all bad? Would you argue that it is what the student utilizes of the education that counts? Then you are not generalizing anymore.
All HR professionals are aware that they cannot keep each and every employee happy 100% of the time. That is a dream - nothing more than an illusion which we all learn in college and Bschools and assume to be true. Then Reality bites quite hard.
If your value system doesn't permit you to accept this, then perhaps the best thing you could do for yourself is leave your current organization.
Overall, I was not able to understand the purpose of your posting. :p So I don't know if I have clarified anything to you.:cool::rolleyes:
Regards
Ryan
From India, Mumbai
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