Dear Executor,
I need to give step by step reply to your post. You have written that:
a) I have a very short fuse for new joinees who think they can push the company around. Even if he/she is a good resource work wise; agreeing to this sets a bad precedent and soon you will have almost everyone doing the same.
The points raised are quite good and agreeable too.
If I was in your shoes, I would have not confirmed the person and recorded indiscipline / willful insubordination / not fitting with company culture in her personal file notings.
I feel that this is your overreach. All that employee has done is to exercise his/her right to decline to become confirmed employee. This is his/her fundamental right. This cannot be indiscipline or wilful insubordination. I am not against removing that person from the job. However, it can be done under the provisions of "disinclination to accept the terms of employment. Terms of employment is to offer Rs ____ salary. The employee in question is not ready to accept it. Declining employee's request for raise, he/she can be told to put in his/her papers. That ends the matter
I would have given her an extension of probation for one month and explained very clearly what the company wants from her. Failing correction from her side, she can then be terminated without notice.
I did not understand the logic of extension of probation period. Either employee accepts the confirmation or quits. Employee has to exercise either option without delay.
My comments: - Possibly the basic problem is that employee has understood the weakness in the system. With proven high-quality performance, he/she wants to use this performance as bargaining chip. This could be the cause of the brinkmanship.
For shah01ankita: - I am little surprised to note your appreciation for this post. Generally you see the posts with hawk's eye but how come this anomaly of "wilful insubordination" escaped from your attention?
Thanks,
Dinesh V Divekar
From India, Bangalore
7884I need to give step by step reply to your post. You have written that:
a) I have a very short fuse for new joinees who think they can push the company around. Even if he/she is a good resource work wise; agreeing to this sets a bad precedent and soon you will have almost everyone doing the same.
The points raised are quite good and agreeable too.
If I was in your shoes, I would have not confirmed the person and recorded indiscipline / willful insubordination / not fitting with company culture in her personal file notings.
I feel that this is your overreach. All that employee has done is to exercise his/her right to decline to become confirmed employee. This is his/her fundamental right. This cannot be indiscipline or wilful insubordination. I am not against removing that person from the job. However, it can be done under the provisions of "disinclination to accept the terms of employment. Terms of employment is to offer Rs ____ salary. The employee in question is not ready to accept it. Declining employee's request for raise, he/she can be told to put in his/her papers. That ends the matter
I would have given her an extension of probation for one month and explained very clearly what the company wants from her. Failing correction from her side, she can then be terminated without notice.
I did not understand the logic of extension of probation period. Either employee accepts the confirmation or quits. Employee has to exercise either option without delay.
My comments: - Possibly the basic problem is that employee has understood the weakness in the system. With proven high-quality performance, he/she wants to use this performance as bargaining chip. This could be the cause of the brinkmanship.
For shah01ankita: - I am little surprised to note your appreciation for this post. Generally you see the posts with hawk's eye but how come this anomaly of "wilful insubordination" escaped from your attention?
Thanks,
Dinesh V Divekar
From India, Bangalore
Just like you I appreciated the first part of the post... the latter part needed some correction but was caught up in work and couldn't phrase it right....
After thinking about the whole process and the possibility that Executor highlighted, it seems that if we are to give a hike to the petitioner, probably all probationers may follow the suit and perhaps other confirmed employees may also start some or other ruckus.
Hence it is essential to know why the person is asking for a hike.
As I already mentioned above, if the person is not getting what the industrial average is, he may be demotivated and hence wishes to negotiate the deal again.
Or perhaps he must have been told in the interview verbally that he'd start off with X Rs. p.m. but once he's confirmed into service, his salary will be up-revised. (This was the case with me and so when after my probation was over, I had to update the accounts department that my salary ought to be up-revised.)
If these are the case, I think genuine consideration and thinking is required on the subject.
Not just that a thorough revision in the pay roll process is needed.
However, if the person just wants to make the best he can taking advantage of the situation, as Dinesh sir suggested, you can ask the person to handover the confirmation letter along with a self-signed letter which states he denies confirmation on so-and-so grounds (hike / any other reason he wishes to write)
Later you can educate him and tell him that since the company do not have a policy of revising the salary on confirmation or every 3-4 months, the petition to revise salary is rejected. Either you accept the confirmation or you can put the papers down.
Ideally once the probation period is over, and even if no document is generated, it is presumed that the employee is confirmed. So unless the employee gives in writing that he rejects / declines confirmation, ideally it will be presumed he has no issue in getting confirmed.
Seniors, please confirm...
From India, Mumbai
After thinking about the whole process and the possibility that Executor highlighted, it seems that if we are to give a hike to the petitioner, probably all probationers may follow the suit and perhaps other confirmed employees may also start some or other ruckus.
Hence it is essential to know why the person is asking for a hike.
As I already mentioned above, if the person is not getting what the industrial average is, he may be demotivated and hence wishes to negotiate the deal again.
Or perhaps he must have been told in the interview verbally that he'd start off with X Rs. p.m. but once he's confirmed into service, his salary will be up-revised. (This was the case with me and so when after my probation was over, I had to update the accounts department that my salary ought to be up-revised.)
If these are the case, I think genuine consideration and thinking is required on the subject.
Not just that a thorough revision in the pay roll process is needed.
However, if the person just wants to make the best he can taking advantage of the situation, as Dinesh sir suggested, you can ask the person to handover the confirmation letter along with a self-signed letter which states he denies confirmation on so-and-so grounds (hike / any other reason he wishes to write)
Later you can educate him and tell him that since the company do not have a policy of revising the salary on confirmation or every 3-4 months, the petition to revise salary is rejected. Either you accept the confirmation or you can put the papers down.
Ideally once the probation period is over, and even if no document is generated, it is presumed that the employee is confirmed. So unless the employee gives in writing that he rejects / declines confirmation, ideally it will be presumed he has no issue in getting confirmed.
Seniors, please confirm...
From India, Mumbai
Dear Dinesh,
Thanks for your interject. The time you have spent and the insights are both appreciated. Without trying to clarify my suggestions, let me share what i had in mind.
From India, Mumbai
Thanks for your interject. The time you have spent and the insights are both appreciated. Without trying to clarify my suggestions, let me share what i had in mind.
Yes, maybe this does not directly come under willful insubordination but then that's exactly why I suggest a few options with the right to use the relevant sections remaining with the HR. I also gave a few suggestions and there indeed might be many more as your expertise pointed out.
Probation is a period of time wherein both the company and the new joinee evaluates suitability and fitment. And this needs to be seen holistically. A great performer who is bad for the culture, in my book, is NOT a right fit. However, the human part of HR also involves giving a chances and hence, extension of probation to give the person a chance to correct the attitudinal issues is suggested.
Extension of probation is also not unheard of. In fact, most offer letters/appointment letters I have seen actually mentions that 'probation can be extended basis evaluation' as well as unambiguously mentions that "completion of the probation period does not automatically guarantee confirmation". Yes, if the company does not inform the employee about an extension of probation with reasonable explanation, it could be however deemed that the employee is confirmed. Basically it depends upon the way an appointment letter is drafted, and the interpretation of the case.
From India, Mumbai
I agree that HR needs to be sensitive but it needs to exercise it's discretion judiciously to ascertain which circumstances call for a sensitive response and which circumstances require sensible response from HR.When an employee refuses to accept confirmation, the HR needs to enquire into the reasons for the employee's decision, since it sounds strange and is not normally expected from an employee so as to know whether any sensistive isue has compelled the employee to take this strange decision to continue on probation. Monica has already talked to the employee to ascertain this and came to find out that she needs a hike and thus s/he is doing it to bargain for a hike.Then this is not a sensitive issue as the employee sets himself/herself on one side of the table to bargain with the mangement on the otherside on equal terms.Thus the management's decision zeroes in on this issue only.
Now the management and the employee have one option each.
1)The management either accede to her request for hike and negotiate with her. Monica says there is no practice of granting hikes on confirmation which means the management is not willing to consider her request and then its shall go ahead with confirming the employee as per the procedure. Then this compels the employee to exercise her option. In my view, confirmation is the management's prerogative and non-acceptance of it is no privilege of the employee, since in matters of evaluating his performance, an employee cannot be a judge in his own cause, unless and until the mangement's evaluation is adverse to the employee which is not so in this case.
2) The employee shall then exercise her option either to continue or to quit.
I therefore do not envisage that it is not the case of sensitivity and thus not require exploring options like extending her probation ( which all that she wants) to convince him/her or to enable her to review her decsion or taking a disciplinary route or terminating the employee which consumes mangement time and resources for no gain. In all probability, the magement would only extend her till the term of probation if it is not considering any hike as per the demand of the employee.
B.Saikumar
navi Mumbai
From India, Mumbai
Now the management and the employee have one option each.
1)The management either accede to her request for hike and negotiate with her. Monica says there is no practice of granting hikes on confirmation which means the management is not willing to consider her request and then its shall go ahead with confirming the employee as per the procedure. Then this compels the employee to exercise her option. In my view, confirmation is the management's prerogative and non-acceptance of it is no privilege of the employee, since in matters of evaluating his performance, an employee cannot be a judge in his own cause, unless and until the mangement's evaluation is adverse to the employee which is not so in this case.
2) The employee shall then exercise her option either to continue or to quit.
I therefore do not envisage that it is not the case of sensitivity and thus not require exploring options like extending her probation ( which all that she wants) to convince him/her or to enable her to review her decsion or taking a disciplinary route or terminating the employee which consumes mangement time and resources for no gain. In all probability, the magement would only extend her till the term of probation if it is not considering any hike as per the demand of the employee.
B.Saikumar
navi Mumbai
From India, Mumbai
I agree with Mr. Divekar's post, he has given possible reasons and suggestions.
But in absence of available details such as size, type & location of the industy, nature and importance of the post, availability of manpower in your area it is difficult to give proper suggestion.
In case of a SME or service industry you should check all the points and then decide.
From India, Mumbai
But in absence of available details such as size, type & location of the industy, nature and importance of the post, availability of manpower in your area it is difficult to give proper suggestion.
In case of a SME or service industry you should check all the points and then decide.
From India, Mumbai
Susil, your query, though related, is out of context. Please use the search functionality to find an existing thread that’s relevant and reports. Moderators, request intervention.
From India, Mumbai
From India, Mumbai
[QUOTE=saiconsult;2084914]I agree that HR needs to be sensitive but it needs to exercise it's discretion judiciously to ascertain which circumstances call for a sensitive response and which circumstances require sensible response from HR.When an employee refuses to accept confirmation, the HR needs to enquire into the reasons for the employee's decision, since it sounds strange and is not normally expected from an employee so as to know whether any sensistive isue has compelled the employee to take this strange decision to continue on probation. Monica has already talked to the employee to ascertain this and came to find out that she needs a hike and thus s/he is doing it to bargain for a hike.Then this is not a sensitive issue as the employee sets himself/herself on one side of the table to bargain with the mangement on the otherside on equal terms.Thus the management's decision zeroes in on this issue only.
Now the management and the employee have one option each.
1)The management either accede to her request for hike and negotiate with her. Monica says there is no practice of granting hikes on confirmation which means the management is not willing to consider her request and then its shall go ahead with confirming the employee as per the procedure. Then this compels the employee to exercise her option. In my view, confirmation is the management's prerogative and non-acceptance of it is no privilege of the employee, since in matters of evaluating his performance, an employee cannot be a judge in his own cause, unless and until the mangement's evaluation is adverse to the employee which is not so in this case.
2) The employee shall then exercise her option either to continue or to quit.
I therefore do not envisage that it is not the case of sensitivity and thus not require exploring options like extending her probation ( which all that she wants) to convince him/her or to enable her to review her decsion or taking a disciplinary route or terminating the employee which consumes mangement time and resources for no gain. In all probability, the magement would only extend her till the term of probation if it is not considering any hike as per the demand of the employee.
B.Saikumar
navi Mumbai
There is a key pad error in the fist sentence of my last para in my last post. It shoudl be read as " I do not envisage that it is a case of sensitivity ................."
Error regretted.
B.Saikumar
navi Mumbai
From India, Mumbai
Now the management and the employee have one option each.
1)The management either accede to her request for hike and negotiate with her. Monica says there is no practice of granting hikes on confirmation which means the management is not willing to consider her request and then its shall go ahead with confirming the employee as per the procedure. Then this compels the employee to exercise her option. In my view, confirmation is the management's prerogative and non-acceptance of it is no privilege of the employee, since in matters of evaluating his performance, an employee cannot be a judge in his own cause, unless and until the mangement's evaluation is adverse to the employee which is not so in this case.
2) The employee shall then exercise her option either to continue or to quit.
I therefore do not envisage that it is not the case of sensitivity and thus not require exploring options like extending her probation ( which all that she wants) to convince him/her or to enable her to review her decsion or taking a disciplinary route or terminating the employee which consumes mangement time and resources for no gain. In all probability, the magement would only extend her till the term of probation if it is not considering any hike as per the demand of the employee.
B.Saikumar
navi Mumbai
There is a key pad error in the fist sentence of my last para in my last post. It shoudl be read as " I do not envisage that it is a case of sensitivity ................."
Error regretted.
B.Saikumar
navi Mumbai
From India, Mumbai
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